Guild Wars 2

The current implementation of this trait in Soul Reaping apparently only applies the 25% movement speed while in shroud. This trait is in direct competition with Soul Marks and Unyielding Blast. I don’t even need to say how desirable these latter two traits are, for many builds. My issue with Speed of Shadows is the restriction to being only while in shroud. If we make a major trait investment in movement speed, at the cost of other worthwhile traits, I don’t feel it should be restricted to only being active while our class mechanic is active. I feel this makes it redundant with our movement speed utilities and warhorn skill. If I want to maintain 25% movement speed at all times, then I need to waste a utility slot on Signet of the Locust and also a major trait on Speed of Shadows. Both of these are currently suffering from the long list of necromancer restrictions (Signet passives not working in shroud, Speed of Shadows restricted to only working in shroud). Honestly, I would be fine with choosing either Signet of the Locust or Speed of Shadows, as I despise slow run speed…but not having to choose both just to compensate for what I think are just unnecessary restrictions.

You also factored in the 30 percent edited cooldown on DS right? That’s extremely useful for deathshroud flash skills like weakening shroud and FiTG. And the 25% movement speed is great for catching up to and keeping enemies in your 1200 range because odds are, they’re probably crippled or chilled from fighting you, letting you squeeze off a couple more life lasts to finish em off.

You can also take quickening thirst in the BM tree for the movement speed boost. Though your complaint I do think is valid for Speed of Shadows.

TheLastNobody.8319:

You also factored in the 30 percent edited cooldown on DS right? That’s extremely useful for deathshroud flash skills like weakening shroud and FiTG. And the 25% movement speed is great for catching up to and keeping enemies in your 1200 range because odds are, they’re probably crippled or chilled from fighting you, letting you squeeze off a couple more life lasts to finish em off.

You can also take quickening thirst in the BM tree for the movement speed boost. Though your complaint I do think is valid for Speed of Shadows.

Yes, the 30% shroud CD reduction is decent. My only complaint is with having to take both a utility and the trait to have the 25% movement speed constantly ( if I use my class mechanic or not)….unlike any other profession…just because of their determination to keep all of these restrictions on shroud. It took them years to back off of the mesmer run speed flavor restriction…I’m just hoping they don’t do the same thing here. Its a little different in this case, as we do have swiftness options…its just the issue with these unnecessary restrictions making us waste precious trait/utility slots for no other reasons than the restrictions. Its not even like 25% movement speed is game breaking…all they would need to do is drop either restriction…its not even like having signet passives work in shroud would be game breaking either. I would much rather have signet passives work in shroud honestly…the 30% shroud cd reduction is only like 3 seconds. I am aware of the dagger trait in the BM tree, but I really have no interest in a weak siphon trait line…especially when there is a trait in a line that I am interested in….that could perfectly provide what I am looking for…if they just stop with the unnecessary restrictions.

Also, most really going for Speed of Shadows, are probably doing so for a shroud based build instead of a shroud flashing build. They are probably looking to stay in shroud as much as possible, and would not get the maximum benefit from FitG.

Frankly? I say Baseline the Vital Persistance degen, make utilities work in DS (so Signet speed just works in shroud), Add the Speed of Shadows cooldown Reduction to VP and make Vital Persistence (or Keep Speed of Shadows name) a Master Trait that reduces Shroud and Shroud Cooldowns by 20% and add a new adept.

That way, we can finally opt out of Soul Reaping in PvP. That’d be neat. (Numbers may need adjustment due to balance.)

ronpierce.2760:

Frankly? I say Baseline the Vital Persistance degen, make utilities work in DS (so Signet speed just works in shroud), Add the Speed of Shadows cooldown Reduction to VP and make Vital Persistence (or Keep Speed of Shadows name) a Master Trait that reduces Shroud and Shroud Cooldowns by 20% and add a new adept.

That way, we can finally opt out of Soul Reaping in PvP. That’d be neat. (Numbers may need adjustment due to balance.)

I honestly don’t know why they need life force degeneration to begin with…at least not while in combat. Its not like enemies don’t dps us out of shroud anyway. That’s enough of a counter to shroud in my opinion…that incoming damage takes our resource for staying in shroud away. I’m 100% for utilities in shroud…I really want to play a complete class instead of half of one anytime I use my class mechanic.

If you want the 25% move speed, then you want either locust signet or quickening thirst.

Quickening thirst is the best: it works in and out of shroud. I think it’s the trait that you want after reading your complaint about signet of the locust. Every necromancer build can use a dagger. Dagger Offhand is good, dagger main is the class’ best weapon.

Speed of Shadows is just bad for speed. Think about it: you are in shroud 33% of the time or less, and zero % of the time when you need pure traveling land speed.

You take Speed of Shadows for the Death Shroud recharge reduction.

nekretaal.6485:

If you want the 25% move speed, then you want either locust signet or quickening thirst.

Quickening thirst is the best: it works in and out of shroud. I think it’s the trait that you want after reading your complaint about signet of the locust. Every necromancer build can use a dagger. Dagger Offhand is good, dagger main is the class’ best weapon.

Speed of Shadows is just bad for speed. Think about it: you are in shroud 33% of the time or less, and zero % of the time when you need pure traveling land speed.

You take Speed of Shadows for the Death Shroud recharge reduction.

Here’s my issue with this. I also want in combat movement speed. There are some encounters where in combat movement speed is important…mai trin cannon phase always comes to mind. Mai Trin can also be an encounter where you have to chase her around during combat….pugs who always want to kite/range her…forcing everyone else to chase. That’s just an example, but I’m sure there are other situations where it is important to be able to run at a decent speed while in combat. Yes, you can just drop shroud and take advantage of Signet of the Locust/Locust Swarm…which is the current option we already have. The whole point of the 25% movement speed on this trait, I assume, would be to allow us to keep attacking (with shroud) during movement fights. It does give us this, technically, its just a pain with needing to double up on traits/utilities to do this with it.

Yes, again, I know there is quickening thirst in the blood trait line…but that is really beside the point. Its a defeatist mentality to ignore the thing that’s bad (restricted speed of shadows, restricted signet of the locust) and take something that you don’t really want (the entire blood magic trait line)…just because you either don’t think the bad thing will ever get fixed or because you don’t want to speak up about the problem. A friend said something to me once, that I will never forget. It was a very simple and colloquial truth…“a closed mouth doesn’t get fed”. You have to speak up and ask for what you want, or you may never get it. The way I see it, there really isn’t a good reason they can’t fix this, so no point in not at least throwing it out there…even repeatedly until they get sick of seeing it.

I’ll add this as well. There’s no way I would take Speed of Shadows just for a 3 second cool down reduction when Unyielding Blast is in that same tier. I’d go with the option that increases my outgoing damage over 3 seconds off of an already low 10 second cool down.

If they could provide a single reasonable argument as to why this restriction on only working in shroud would unbalance the necromancer/reaper…then I would stop asking, but I can’t think of one at all. Its not like there isn’t a similar effect already available that does not have this restriction for the necromancer.

Speed of Shadows is pretty amazing with Reaper, I actually played BWE with that trait and liked it. With Blighter’s Boon you gain lifeforce like crazy, so you get to pop Reaper Shroud more often. The reduced cd on shroud was very nice with Reaper, and icing on the cake was 25% speed when Reapers are already pretty unstoppable movement wise if you take Relentless Pursuit. Add in chill and leap that Reapers have access to, Speed of Shadows become a pretty viable trait to take.

it needs to be 40% movement speed in shroud..

People would still pick soulmarks

The reduced cooldown on Shroud is the whole reason I take it to be honest.

Also, Quickening Thirst gives you 25% movement speed as long as you’re wielding a dagger so there’s also that if you want to be quicker.

They should just make it grant swiftness on entering shroud instead of the 25% movement speed effect. That would be way more useful. Currently, it isn’t worth it over soul marks or unyielding blast ever.

I took/take Speed of Shadows as Power Reaper, and I do it mostly for the CD on RS recharge. As Power Necro I base iton that and Unyeilding Blast is “overkill” for Vun on a Reaper. Soul Marks well gonna try and face Staff out of my W-Sets and go D/Wh+GS.

Is Speed of Shadows a great trait ? No… Is it viable ? Yes… Does it fit better with RS then DS ? Imho Yes, due to the 25% Speed helps to stay in Melee easier

so simple answer is Iam gonna use it

The biggest issue to me is the reduced shroud CD would be good if some of the shroud traits didn’t have internal cooldowns. A lot of the necro traits suck because of broken synergy due to ICDs.

unyielding blast make it base and speed of shadow make it 50% speed buff there now make new trait XD

Khristophoros.7194:

The biggest issue to me is the reduced shroud CD would be good if some of the shroud traits didn’t have internal cooldowns. A lot of the necro traits suck because of broken synergy due to ICDs.

Spiteful Spirit is the only trait that has an ICD related to entering or exiting shroud to get a bonus.

Signet passives should work in shroud. And then speed of shadows should be changed to swiftness or super speed on shroud entry in addition to shroud cooldown reduction.

Ive never understood why we have 3 different choices for 25% movement speed. Its a waste of trait/utility slots. We could have something else but instead we have duplicates of the same thing. Makes no sense.

Bhawb.7408:

Khristophoros.7194:

The biggest issue to me is the reduced shroud CD would be good if some of the shroud traits didn’t have internal cooldowns. A lot of the necro traits suck because of broken synergy due to ICDs.

Spiteful Spirit is the only trait that has an ICD related to entering or exiting shroud to get a bonus.

Weakening Shroud does too, though it is 10 seconds.

Khristophoros.7194:

Bhawb.7408:

Khristophoros.7194:

The biggest issue to me is the reduced shroud CD would be good if some of the shroud traits didn’t have internal cooldowns. A lot of the necro traits suck because of broken synergy due to ICDs.

Spiteful Spirit is the only trait that has an ICD related to entering or exiting shroud to get a bonus.

Weakening Shroud does too, though it is 10 seconds.

Thats just the weakness on crit afaik. They really should make that tooltip a bit clearer.

I like speed of shadows with reaper, has some good sinergy.

spoj.9672:

Khristophoros.7194:

Bhawb.7408:

Khristophoros.7194:

The biggest issue to me is the reduced shroud CD would be good if some of the shroud traits didn’t have internal cooldowns. A lot of the necro traits suck because of broken synergy due to ICDs.

Spiteful Spirit is the only trait that has an ICD related to entering or exiting shroud to get a bonus.

Weakening Shroud does too, though it is 10 seconds.

Thats just the weakness on crit afaik.

I thought I tested it, but now I have to again.

edit: You were right. So I guess my complaint only applies to Spiteful Spirit.

The only reason for someone to take this trait over Soul Marks is the reduced cooldown on DS for DS flashing builds, because let’s face it – giving up unblockable CC on staff just for slightly higher running speed that’s easily overwritten by swiftness is not really a fair compromise.

I would suggest reworking it to have better synergy with DS flashing. Something like spoj already suggested – swiftness or super speed on entry or exit.

spoj.9672:

Ive never understood why we have 3 different choices for 25% movement speed. Its a waste of trait/utility slots. We could have something else but instead we have duplicates of the same thing. Makes no sense.

I think this is a larger issue than just 25% speed. We have 3 sources of 25% speed, we also have almost excessive levels of might, vulnerability, and crit chance stacking, to the point that we can theoretically have 130% crit chance in Death Shroud without fury or any investment in precision or precision based buffs, not in DS can still get up to 80%, meaning a Curses/Reaper Soldier Necro can hit 100% crit chance with just fury.

So we end up with a lot of traits that effectively duplicate effects, and instead of other professions who can stack up a lot of their beneficial effects and get crazy results, we hit ceilings with our “stacking” very quickly because they are based primarily on mechanics that are shared heavily.

Bhawb.7408:

spoj.9672:

Ive never understood why we have 3 different choices for 25% movement speed. Its a waste of trait/utility slots. We could have something else but instead we have duplicates of the same thing. Makes no sense.

I think this is a larger issue than just 25% speed. We have 3 sources of 25% speed, we also have almost excessive levels of might, vulnerability, and crit chance stacking, to the point that we can theoretically have 130% crit chance in Death Shroud without fury or any investment in precision or precision based buffs, not in DS can still get up to 80%, meaning a Curses/Reaper Soldier Necro can hit 100% crit chance with just fury.

So we end up with a lot of traits that effectively duplicate effects, and instead of other professions who can stack up a lot of their beneficial effects and get crazy results, we hit ceilings with our “stacking” very quickly because they are based primarily on mechanics that are shared heavily.

This is – imo – one of the biggest flaws with Necromancer at the moment: We just have too many gosh darned ways to improve the same four things (Might, Vuln, Movement Speed, Crit Chance), and all of those things have a hard cap! If some of our self-might or ludicrous amounts of free crit chance were changed into personal percent-damage increases then maybe we’d be semi-competitive damage-wise.

Maybe don’t take all the lines that all do similiar things, I e been having great success lately incorporating defensive traits. Found one really weird cleric build using a mix of wells and minions.

NeXeD.3042:

Maybe don’t take all the lines that all do similiar things, I e been having great success lately incorporating defensive traits. Found one really weird cleric build using a mix of wells and minions.

That was essentially my goal. Only issue I hit with that is it seems like Chilling Victory is balanced around Reaper’s might so it can’t be used as a good alternative…

Chilling Victory desperately needs a might duration boost…

I will maybe chill things out here but, consider that I do not use staff (almost never). I can then use the same argument of the OP saying that Soul Mark is a useless trait with no meaning and it would just be a bother to take it when I can be faster while in shroud or load my foe with vulnerability and pierce them.

What I mean is that it is the pure essence of chosing a trait that fit your playstyle. But the fact that it doesn’t fit your playstyle does not mean that it doesn’t fit the playstyle of someone else.

Speed of shadow is a trait that have a meaning for players that want more mobility in shroud without having to take a dagger and trait for it. It’s perfectly fine as a concept for a trait, even if, I agree, the effect may seem a bit lame in the current state of the game.

Dadnir.5038:

I will maybe chill things out here but, consider that I do not use staff (almost never). I can then use the same argument of the OP saying that Soul Mark is a useless trait with no meaning and it would just be a bother to take it when I can be faster while in shroud or load my foe with vulnerability and pierce them.

What I mean is that it is the pure essence of chosing a trait that fit your playstyle. But the fact that it doesn’t fit your playstyle does not mean that it doesn’t fit the playstyle of someone else.

Speed of shadow is a trait that have a meaning for players that want more mobility in shroud without having to take a dagger and trait for it. It’s perfectly fine as a concept for a trait, even if, I agree, the effect may seem a bit lame in the current state of the game.

soul marks is almost mandatory now and speed of shadows is good for rs and flashing ds but the speed buff need to be 50% while in ds , 25% is low you can use the dagger trait use runes of the traveler or use the signet

NeXeD.3042:

Maybe don’t take all the lines that all do similiar things, I e been having great success lately incorporating defensive traits. Found one really weird cleric build using a mix of wells and minions.

The problem is almost any reasonable combination of trait lines will have overlap, and any overlapping mechanics are instantly made worthless in the same build. When you only have 3 traits this immediately and severely hurts option choices, especially if everything isn’t perfectly balanced, since a lot of traits also rely on skill choice.

Well in terms of vuln and might. The solution would be to change a few of those traits to provide damage modifiers instead of vuln/might. That way we can stack up damage without worrying about caps. Just like every other class. Would also probably solve our dps issue at the same time.

Its ok to have duplicates of the same thing as long as the way they are done is different and they can compliment each other. So our movement speed traits should not all be flat 25%. One can be that, then the others can provide swiftness or superspeed or ignore movement impairing effects. Then instead of excessive might we could have a few of those traits changed to unique power bonuses. Some of the vuln could be changed to damage modifiers. And the crit can be changed to ferocity in some places.

Well I dunno I actually found a few extremely strong bruiser types with reaper, even found a pretty tanky hard hitting marauders build I think will be something we see alot of

Should at least be like the ele trait for air sense among break bars the devs are handing out super speed to everyone.
Speed of shadows gain increased movement speed -in general- gain super speed upon entering DS for 3 seconds. or some kittenz <lol i like the foum sensor that made my day ;D like that. If not super speed then gain quickness for 3 seconds. I mean something need to give.

Also to the guy who pointed out quickening thirst which requires a threshold restriction of your hp being over 75% (yet another needless restriction making the trait less tempting) To follow that up the blood line trait in general is not good. its pretty wack. Its ok for droplets of hp but its not medi guard who heals massive amounts from simply face rolling on the keys.