Guild Wars 2

“increases movement speed while in death shroud (+25% movement speed)”

Could you imagine actually making this trait useful?
i’m talking about stacking locust signet with it so that, like the thieves, we could have +50% speed bonus for a short duration! if it was stackable would anybody else consider switching out a trait for it? i feel like it could change a lot of things about my builds if i had that kind of mobility.

Its there because devs are too lazy to code DS to work with signets.

Spanny.9256:

“increases movement speed while in death shroud (+25% movement speed)”

Could you imagine actually making this trait useful?
i’m talking about stacking locust signet with it so that, like the thieves, we could have +50% speed bonus for a short duration! if it was stackable would anybody else consider switching out a trait for it? i feel like it could change a lot of things about my builds if i had that kind of mobility.

DS is not “short” duration if nobody hits you.

knbBlackTemplar.3059:

DS is not “short” duration if nobody hits you.

yeah but neither is stealth at the moment lol.

A trait that no one would ever use. Remove it.

+1 for signets working in Deathshroud…. Still don’t understand why they break on DS entry.

I can’t see why ANY of our utility skills don’t work in DS.

It limits what we can to do to the 5 basic DS skills for the whole time we are in DS.

Rennoko.5731:

+1 for signets working in Deathshroud…. Still don’t understand why they break on DS entry.

As all transformations, they replace your skill bar, only that they are empty at the utility n heal slots.

Andele.1306:

Rennoko.5731:

+1 for signets working in Deathshroud…. Still don’t understand why they break on DS entry.

As all transformations, they replace your skill bar, only that they are empty at the utility n heal slots.

I understand that, but DS isn’t a standard transformation (like plauge/tornado), it is our class mechanic. How many other classes have to fight with their class mechanic stopping their signets from working?

I opened a discussion about the same thing about 2 weeks ago, but people were too busy qqing to keep the post alive :/ Well anyways, here’s a link to that thread:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Speed-of-Shadows-Trait/first#post3162395

Some interesting ideas were brought up, I think you’ll like them.

Rennoko.5731:

Andele.1306:

Rennoko.5731:

+1 for signets working in Deathshroud…. Still don’t understand why they break on DS entry.

As all transformations, they replace your skill bar, only that they are empty at the utility n heal slots.

I understand that, but DS isn’t a standard transformation (like plauge/tornado), it is our class mechanic. How many other classes have to fight with their class mechanic stopping their signets from working?

I still think that all transforms (ok exception being plague and tornado/other ways of getting it because you turn into insects/a bunch of wind + objects for the time) should have the utility/right side bar unlocked/free for use.

Andele.1306:

Its there because devs are too lazy to code DS to work with signets.

amen. lol :<

What if they revamped it to give quickness upon entering DS for 1-2 seconds? Would be nice for shroud stomping.

warrior has 10p trait which gives 25% speed boost.. necro has 20p trait which gives 25% speed IF you have 2 daggers equipped and dagger skills in general are in weird skill trees. Or 25% speed IF you have LF to spare for just running… Afaik it is only useful for wvw pug zerging or pve zerging. Otherwise there’s more useful traits :F

And yeah no signet bonuses in DS makes signets pretty much more kitten than they are now.

Rennoko.5731:

Andele.1306:

Rennoko.5731:

+1 for signets working in Deathshroud…. Still don’t understand why they break on DS entry.

As all transformations, they replace your skill bar, only that they are empty at the utility n heal slots.

I understand that, but DS isn’t a standard transformation (like plauge/tornado), it is our class mechanic. How many other classes have to fight with their class mechanic stopping their signets from working?

This. Being denied our utilities while in DS is a huge handicap. I said it months ago and I’ll say it again, for many builds the best use of DS is to use it as little as possible by flickering into it to either ablate a hard hit or use some of the abilities and then immediately leave.

The only good reason outside that to stay in DS is to run down a timer on your heal or a vital skill; which can be tricky since you can’t see those timers while in it. And that takes the risk of not having enough life-force or the recharge of DS ready if you need to go back into it again to ablate another hit. And that also means you also were not doing much other than slowly spamming life blast since every other DS tool has a not inconsiderable cool-down and costs life-force to boot.

The design just comes across as schizophrenic frankly.

Overkillengine.6084:

And that also means you also were not doing much other than slowly spamming life blast since every other DS tool has a not inconsiderable cool-down and costs life-force to boot.

The design just comes across as schizophrenic frankly.

No skills cost life force.

Upon reflection it doesn’t take long to understand why Speed of Shadows is a bad trait. Speed buffs are typically only worth the opportunity cost when they have a relatively high uptime. Tying a speed buff to a mechanic that cannot be maintained over time (death shroud) simply defeats its own purpose. The most you could do with it would be to up the speed boost to such an extent that it becomes noteworthy even over short amounts of time. That type of mechanic works well on a class based around mobility – the thief’s Fleet Shadow is a perfect example – but for a class that is meant to be the antithesis of mobility, that kind of trait undermines the design by giving you a potential escape option.

I think a much better design would have been tying the speed buff to the amount of life force you have – something like 1% increased movement speed for every 3% of life force. You can make it 4% if you think 3% is too much, or throw in some arbitrary min/max values to prevent it from exceeding or falling below certain levels if you wish. There are lots of ways you could go about it, the point is I think something along those lines would be a far better alternative.

Soul Reaping saw some changes and Speed of Shadows was a later addition. A really bad one too. But before that we got a grandmaster trait that gave us locust swarm(warhorn 4) when under 25% health or smthg like that, so it could probably be called an improvement.

As for ManaCraft’s suggestion: If the bonus is as miniscule and unreliable as you suggest then nobody wants to take it. Overall the current implementation is imho better (more reliable) than your suggestion and the current one is pretty bad.

On the other hand you brought up good arguments for why a burst of movement increase(like the elementalists attune to air and get 2 sec of 100% speed) might not be simply given to the necro, apart from beeing able to outrun Dark Path at that point…

Bellamy.9860:

Soul Reaping saw some changes and Speed of Shadows was a later addition. A really bad one too. But before that we got a grandmaster trait that gave us locust swarm(warhorn 4) when under 25% health or smthg like that, so it could probably be called an improvement.

As for ManaCraft’s suggestion: If the bonus is as miniscule and unreliable as you suggest then nobody wants to take it. Overall the current implementation is imho better (more reliable) than your suggestion and the current one is pretty bad.

On the other hand you brought up good arguments for why a burst of movement increase(like the elementalists attune to air and get 2 sec of 100% speed) might not be simply given to the necro, apart from beeing able to outrun Dark Path at that point…

Uhhh, no, old old SR traits were a nova on DS entry that scaled with DS level and being immune to CC while in DS. Since the first revamp SR wasnt touched except for numbers and moving down DS cdr for Deathly perceptions.

Andele.1306:

Uhhh, no, old old SR traits were a nova on DS entry that scaled with DS level and being immune to CC while in DS. Since the first revamp SR wasnt touched except for numbers and moving down DS cdr for Deathly perceptions.

Talking about “old” live stuff, so everything after release, not old (closed) beta stuff.

Bellamy.9860:

If the bonus is as miniscule and unreliable as you suggest then nobody wants to take it. Overall the current implementation is imho better (more reliable) than your suggestion and the current one is pretty bad.

…and this is precisely the reason why I almost never engage in discussions about specific suggestions on these forums. It’s only a matter of time before someone unwilling to give an argument anything beyond the least favorable interpretation comes along and ruins the party.

On the other hand, if your objection is that a speed boost based on life force cannot be designed in any conceivable way to be reliable enough that it is worth taking, I flat out disagree.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Overkillengine.6084:

And that also means you also were not doing much other than slowly spamming life blast since every other DS tool has a not inconsiderable cool-down and costs life-force to boot.

The design just comes across as schizophrenic frankly.

No skills cost life force.

Sorry, meant “and it costs” as a way to refer to the degen.

ManaCraft.5630:

…and this is precisely the reason why I almost never engage in discussions about specific suggestions on these forums. It’s only a matter of time before someone unwilling to give an argument anything beyond the least favorable interpretation comes along and ruins the party.

On the other hand, if your objection is that a speed boost based on life force cannot be designed in any conceivable way to be reliable enough that it is worth taking, I flat out disagree.

Since you seem to be offended i offer my apologies. I simply do not see, how another implementation of a speed buff is needed for necros. We already got SoL, or wh+spec, gimmicky dagger trait etc. Speed of shadows in its current implementation(and also your suggestion) doesn’t add anything unique, otherwise not achievable to the class but is simply an option of achieving higher movement speed through special conditions. It is not really about your idea and in general more about another %speed boost.
Also, and this is mainly why i dislike it, the game modes in which both versions seem to be useable the most(pve and wvw) are pretty generous in giving out swiftness so in most cases it is obsolete.

“Speed of Shadows: When you enter Death Shroud you blind in an area for 3 seconds and Life Blast casts 50% faster”

There ya go, problem solved. Change it lol.

Bellamy.9860:

I simply do not see, how another implementation of a speed buff is needed for necros. We already got SoL, or wh+spec, gimmicky dagger trait etc.

Well that’s a completely different argument. I actually agree somewhat. I still think the extra utility slot it buys will be worth it in certain circumstances, but it’s true that the contribution will be limited. Scrapping the trait entirely and doing a full redesign is obviously a possibility.

ManaCraft.5630:

Bellamy.9860:

I simply do not see, how another implementation of a speed buff is needed for necros. We already got SoL, or wh+spec, gimmicky dagger trait etc.

Well that’s a completely different argument. I actually agree somewhat. I still think the extra utility slot it buys will be worth it in certain circumstances, but it’s true that the contribution will be limited. Scrapping the trait entirely and doing a full redesign is obviously a possibility.

Using up precious life force for a small speed boost is not at all = freeing up a utility slot. Especially when you can just swap the utility out on the fly out of combat. And speed boosts while in combat are irrelevant since there are so many ways to snare or gap close (for other classes anyway). Redesigning from the ground up is the only logical conclusion and since it would be a clean design it should be easier than trying to “buff” the current state and balance around it.

Nay of the Ether.8913:

Using up precious life force for a small speed boost is not at all = freeing up a utility slot.

You do understand that the entire point of my suggestion was to specifically avoid that, right?

We don’t agree on the value of speed boosts in combat either, but let’s save that for some other time.

I think it would be fine if it were combined with Path of Midnight (since Path of Midnight is already weak for a CDR trait) and had a new trait replace Speed of Shadows.

Thief is Not 50% faster in stealth, its 33%.
But the describtion is freakin fast.
You have to use Life force to speed up (but you also have a signet and a trait that gives you 25%), thief has to Dodge to speed up (thief has also a signet But no trait).

Domey.9804:

Thief is Not 50% faster in stealth, its 33%.
But the describtion is freakin fast.
You have to use Life force to speed up (but you also have a signet and a trait that gives you 25%), thief has to Dodge to speed up (thief has also a signet But no trait).

Thief actually has a ton of swiftness traits in the acrobatics line. Not sure what thief swiftness has to do with this trait though. Just sayin.