Guild Wars 2

So I want to preface this with “I am not some diamond+ masterful player in pvp”.
I am also not a mechanically perfect pve player. I can clear a few raids with my guildies, and I won’t get killed in open world or dungeons with the exception of a few instakill mechanics every now and then..
My skills in fractals are pretty average and I’m pretty sure I survive the higher tiers simply because necro’s second health bar ACTUALLY is useful in fractals.

All that aside I do love messing around with necromancer’s kit. I love how flexible the class can be… dps, condi, tank, even a really janky healer. I understand not all of these builds I’ve fooled around with are even close to meta; heck I understand necro itself isn’t exactly the metamancer everyone would like it to be… but I do feel that through my experimentation I have a fair grip on what each trait and skill can do. Where they’re useful, and how I can make them synergize.

… Except for Spiteful Renewal…

I am unsure even still where and how this could be better than the other two traits.
If you’re in pve you take spiteful talisman for more damage. Practically no mob has boons regularly. If your team lacks vuln and you don’t feel like playing axe you take bitter chill and greatsword auto. (or spam blind if you’re on condi with offhand dagger).

In pvp it’s of course different… you really aren’t given an optimal choice since stacking vuln through chill is nice, but few players are monkey enough to let you greatsword chain them or hit them with blinds consistently. Its stil good of course… Spiteful talisman is a bit odd, as well. You can take it for the cooldown on the chill of death trait and get more proc bombs on people when paired with chilling nova, or if you actually use a talisman it’s pretty decent as well. Though if you’re not using a talisman or relying on chill of death (unsure why you’d even be on spite at that point unless you literally just want one of the grandmasters) its not at all worth it since everyone has boons passively it seems.

And so this is where spiteful renewal really gets me.. its tempting… but I haven’t seen it ever really pay dividends. Likely due to its seemingly oddly placed icd.. maybe because necro’s massive hp pool and innately low defense (lets face it, crits hurt us more than others without toughness gear) that the 900 heal doesn’t feel like it makes a difference…

I’ll admit its one I’ve only very recently been actively trying to find good synergies so maybe I’ve missed some things.

Though, I have an important question… Does the heal go through shroud? Because if so then I can use it much more intelligently.

TL;DR: HOW DO SPITEFUL RENEWAL WORK (in much detail if you could) AND DO IT HEAL THRU SHROWD???

As a rule, the only healing that works through shroud is life stealing from necromancer traits/skills (not sigil/rune life steal) and traits that specifically say they heal through shroud (like Blighter’s Boon and Unholy Sanctuary).

Spiteful Renewal will not heal through Shroud, though it will still remove a condition then.

It works like this:

You strike an enemy. If that enemy is below 25% health, this may proc. If you have a condition and it is off cooldown, it will remove a condition from you. Then, if you are not in shroud, it will heal you.

I looked at the wiki as well to see the actual healing modifiers. its .1 . So even with the bonus from blood magic that gives you 450 healing power at 50% it seems you only heal for around 1k. Which isn’t the worst thing in the world to have for free every 5 seconds I suppose. Its jsut that when someone is at 25% hp in pvp very rarely does it last more than 5 seconds lmao. … Hm.. I suppose it could be worth the trait slot in fractals for some instabilities. Thanks guys!

In fractals it’s just easier to avoid the ones that spam condis on you. Usually there’s a choice at T4 between condi spamming enemies and adrenal rush. Adrenal rush sucks, but it’s more manageable than a room full of normally trash mobs that become nuclear bombs.

It’s a case of using up your dodge vs. watching those classes that can’t cleanse melt.

Spiteful Talisman is probably better for power builds, bitter chill for condi. 5% damage from talisman is a big deal, even more so if you use a focus. Condi builds can’t usually stack vulnerability so chilling to cause it helps party DPS.

Hesacon.8735:

Spiteful Talisman is probably better for power builds, bitter chill for condi. 5% damage from talisman is a big deal, even more so if you use a focus. Condi builds can’t usually stack vulnerability so chilling to cause it helps party DPS.

The thing is with Spiteful Talisman, as soon as the enemy has less than 25 vuln, it becomes wasted. If you remove Bitter Chill from the equation, Power reapers really don’t have as much vuln application as people think. Unless you’re camping axe/focus, which is a dps loss in itself.

A thing about Renewal is that it procs off of minions/clones/pets/gyros. So for example it’s very beneficial against Mesmer’s because you can get healing and a cleanse by wailing on one of their clones.

I thank you all for your input on ST and BC, but lets stay on topic.
Crinn, that’s fantastic. I honestly didn’t think of that. The trait seems so much better now.
Does it trigger on down players too?

Lahmia.2193:

Hesacon.8735:

Spiteful Talisman is probably better for power builds, bitter chill for condi. 5% damage from talisman is a big deal, even more so if you use a focus. Condi builds can’t usually stack vulnerability so chilling to cause it helps party DPS.

The thing is with Spiteful Talisman, as soon as the enemy has less than 25 vuln, it becomes wasted. If you remove Bitter Chill from the equation, Power reapers really don’t have as much vuln application as people think. Unless you’re camping axe/focus, which is a dps loss in itself.

I often use axe/focus and can usually maintain 20-25 vulnerability in a group with 4 condi reapers, which is itself like having an extra DPS in a 5-player team. I haven’t had a complaint about it in months.

It’s easier below 50% HP since death’s embrace kicks in and axe’s AA is fast, as is axe #2. 50% is usually when fractal bosses flip their kitten and go haywire, so it’s when extra DPS mattets most.

Epidemic transfers vulnerability too, so it’s not as hard to generate as you’d think, even with 4 condi and 1 power necro.

Greatsword has some vulnerability generation, but is only half as effective.

5% more personal dps is not as good as 1% extra group dps. So yeah, even camping axe, while a personal loss under normal situations, is a big net gain for group dps.

Murdock.6547:

5% more personal dps is not as good as 1% extra group dps. So yeah, even camping axe, while a personal loss under normal situations, is a big net gain for group dps.

My point is, with Bitter chill you can camp greatsword, do near max damage and give an easy 25 vuln to allow max ally damage.

Murdock.6547:

I thank you all for your input on ST and BC, but lets stay on topic.
Crinn, that’s fantastic. I honestly didn’t think of that. The trait seems so much better now.
Does it trigger on down players too?

Mesmer Clones rarely exist with less than 25% health, so keep that in mind.

I actually don’t know about it working on downed players or not.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Murdock.6547:

I thank you all for your input on ST and BC, but lets stay on topic.
Crinn, that’s fantastic. I honestly didn’t think of that. The trait seems so much better now.
Does it trigger on down players too?

Mesmer Clones rarely exist with less than 25% health, so keep that in mind.

I actually don’t know about it working on downed players or not.

Depends on what you are hitting with. Using things like Axe#2, GS#3, RS#4 will usually get a proc on a clone simply because of the nature of the skills. That said specifically targeting stuff for Renewal procs isn’t something that I’d recommend, you should be able to get the thing to proc just through normal combat.

Idk if it works on downs, I expect that is does because every other “Target below X% Health” skill and trait seems to work on downs.

Renewal vs. Bitter Chill really depends on what you are trying to do with your build. Condi Necro in PvP should just go with vuln on chill because it’s a extra cover condition. Power necro is going by preference. PvE will never take Renewal.

I imagine dagger 2 would be phenomenal for it as well. Just a little burst of survival in close 1v1s or in higher fractals. Especially potent if you have blood magic.
Hm. This has all been informative and my question has been answered fairly satisfactorily. Thank you all!
Feel free to use this thread for whatever you like or let it die.