Stability
The limiting factor (imo) is that perma-stability would be OP. Since DS can be traited down to 7s recharge and a little bit of boon duration is easily reachable (20% from staff traits + 15% from runes) even 5s stability from FitG would probably be too much.
I think our stability should be decoupled from talents and just added to a utility, that way we could have longer stability without risking OP perma-stab. Or maybe change FitG so it adds 8sec of stability to Spectral Armor or something instead of DS.
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playing necro taught me how to not be stun break and stability dependent. Tho sometimes no stability is annoying.
I would trade stability for additional protection boon.
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The difference is those abilities you listed have a long CD, and DS would be perma stability.
What if it instead became pulsing Stability while in Death Shroud? Say 3 seconds every 3 seconds? I’d like that, really.
what about stability per pulse on well of power?
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What if it instead became pulsing Stability while in Death Shroud? Say 3 seconds every 3 seconds? I’d like that, really.
Another guy used to suggest to give the the 7 stack Mai/Massive mob treatment to Foot in the grave of immune to the actual negative effects of cc, but not immune to it being a interrupt. pull or push (without the knockdown). Seems better since it wouldnt hard counter cc builds since even with boon rip only mesmers could reliably rip the stability each time if you let them AA.
The issue with long-term CC immunity while in DS is that Spectral Builds have a very easy time staying in DS for a long time already, meaning you would have a tanky build that passively is immune to CC for a long period of time, and your only way to stop that is by attacking them, which will also fuel keeping them in DS (via SA/SW), and you can’t really just wait it out. Before the recent fix to DS expiring on its own, this would have been even more problematic.
I’d rather see it have a Dogged March style effect while in DS. You still get a bit of stability when you jump in, and as long as you stay in it is fairly difficult to use soft CC to control you.
The issue with long-term CC immunity while in DS is that Spectral Builds have a very easy time staying in DS for a long time already, meaning you would have a tanky build that passively is immune to CC for a long period of time, and your only way to stop that is by attacking them, which will also fuel keeping them in DS (via SA/SW), and you can’t really just wait it out. Before the recent fix to DS expiring on its own, this would have been even more problematic.
I’d rather see it have a Dogged March style effect while in DS. You still get a bit of stability when you jump in, and as long as you stay in it is fairly difficult to use soft CC to control you.
Dont spectrals have like… a 20/128s uptime? And a ICD on hit thus a thief or ele bursting down wouldnt make a difference?
Seriously no idea and would love to see a current video of it…
Perhaps instead, Foot in the Grave gave 50% stun reduction in Death Shroud, then? The current Stability could stay for flashing and to provide the current counterplay opportunities. I chose 50% because it’s a Grandmaster and limited on when it can apply.
However, it might cause a problem with Melandru runes + Bowl of Roasted Lotus Root, as that would be -115% stun duration in death shroud. Sigil of Paralyzation would be required for any CC duration at all on the necro in that situation barring a few specific traits.
Dont spectrals have like… a 20/128s uptime? And a ICD on hit thus a thief or ele bursting down wouldnt make a difference?
Seriously no idea and would love to see a current video of it…
A Fresh Air burst is basically nullified by Spectral Armor while in Death Shroud, there is a twitch video out there showing it (I believe it was Symbolic and Phantaram). You get 8% LF on hit (which is a large bit of HP), plus all the incoming damage is reduced by 33%. So let’s say you get hit with a 10k burst over one second (just one proc of SA). You only take 6.7k damage because of protection, and because of how DS works with direct damage, you only lose 3.4k LF (DS only receives half damage from direct damage). At the same time, you receive 8% LF, which is 8% of 60% of your HP. So at base level 80, you gain 8% of 0.6(18k), which is around 850 LF. So in total, you take only 2.6k damage from a 10k burst. And for each extra second that the burst extends for, you get even more LF back.
So it is an incredibly strong skill, especially once you increase your LF (both through SR traiting and vitality) which gives you more effective HP back through % LF gain, have extra toughness in DS, and have traiting that gives you LF on use. But basically speaking, you could take a full fresh air ele burst to the face (one of the strongest/fastest bursts in PvP) and not even be below 50% LF.
Also, with traiting you would have up to 2 SAs per CD period (which is 40s traited now I believe?), plus two other spectral skills, WH 5, nearby deaths, etc. It is very possible to have a ton of LF generation, the weakness of the build is usually lack of something other than not dying.
Perhaps instead, Foot in the Grave gave 50% stun reduction in Death Shroud, then? The current Stability could stay for flashing and to provide the current counterplay opportunities. I chose 50% because it’s a Grandmaster and limited on when it can apply.
However, it might cause a problem with Melandru runes + Bowl of Roasted Lotus Root, as that would be -115% stun duration in death shroud. Sigil of Paralyzation would be required for any CC duration at all on the necro in that situation barring a few specific traits.
Stun reduction would be interesting, but like you said could be problematic, since you could basically fully negate CC from some builds. I’d much prefer a soft-CC counter with the short term hard CC one.
(edited by Bhawb.7408)
Foot in the Grave should be a stunbreak upon entering DS, as well as the 3s stability.
Q @Bhawb.7408 – wouldnt that then be… balanced? I mean i deny ele spikes with my toolkit 5. Without 3 other utilities and/or traits. Also they could just re-nerf spectral armor and walk to their 3% pre hit without limit but not in DS and not stacking phase.
Or DK said just making it mai trin thus % reduction in cc.
Or they could fix DS to be 120% of HP (150 with 30SR) but not reduce physical damage by 50% thus not stack with protection making LF heal/gain in DS weaker.
The most annoying thing on Necro is die due stun fest. They should at least make well of power apply 5 sec of stability. The class really suffers from lack of stability, Necro is the only class in that way.
Sorry for my english.
Well, Necros aren’t the only class that lacks stability, but unlike the others that do so, Necros don’t have avoidance methods to otherwise prevent being CC’d.
Q @Bhawb.7408 – wouldnt that then be… balanced? I mean i deny ele spikes with my toolkit 5. Without 3 other utilities and/or traits. Also they could just re-nerf spectral armor and walk to their 3% pre hit without limit but not in DS and not stacking phase.
Not saying it isn’t balanced, its just fine as is. What I’m saying is if you added in permanent stability on top of that (something that was suggested before), you’d have a build that can’t really be dealt with. You can’t CC it to get it off points, you can’t burst it down, it just sits in your face and laughs. Not to say that the build would be good necessarily, but it has significant issues in that you can’t actually counterplay anything about the build.
Or they could fix DS to be 120% of HP (150 with 30SR) but not reduce physical damage by 50% thus not stack with protection making LF heal/gain in DS weaker.
This doesn’t change anything for direct damage, just makes LF much better against condi. If you have 10k LF but all direct damage is reduced in half, a 10k hit against you is 5k, or 3350 with protection up, which is 50% or 33.5% of your LF. If you have 20k LF the 10k hit hits you for 10k or 6.7k with protection up, which is 50% or 33.5% of your LF. Since all LF gain is % based, its exactly the same.
Q @Bhawb.7408 – wouldnt that then be… balanced? I mean i deny ele spikes with my toolkit 5. Without 3 other utilities and/or traits. Also they could just re-nerf spectral armor and walk to their 3% pre hit without limit but not in DS and not stacking phase.
Not saying it isn’t balanced, its just fine as is. What I’m saying is if you added in permanent stability on top of that (something that was suggested before), you’d have a build that can’t really be dealt with. You can’t CC it to get it off points, you can’t burst it down, it just sits in your face and laughs. Not to say that the build would be good necessarily, but it has significant issues in that you can’t actually counterplay anything about the build.
Or they could fix DS to be 120% of HP (150 with 30SR) but not reduce physical damage by 50% thus not stack with protection making LF heal/gain in DS weaker.
This doesn’t change anything for direct damage, just makes LF much better against condi. If you have 10k LF but all direct damage is reduced in half, a 10k hit against you is 5k, or 3350 with protection up, which is 50% or 33.5% of your LF. If you have 20k LF the 10k hit hits you for 10k or 6.7k with protection up, which is 50% or 33.5% of your LF. Since all LF gain is % based, its exactly the same.
Yes and my point was, thats exactly what warriors do with less investment, kinda what i do with engie with equal investment and kinda sorta what guard/ele and mesmers can do with full on builds, but on a reliable/no resource requirement basis.
BTW 50HP which has 83% damage reduction only takes 17 damage from a 100 damage hit, a 100 hp with only 33% damage reduction takes 67 from a 100 hit; thats 66% of max hp remaining vs 23% of max hp remaining difference (that is assuming prot and DS reduction stack and aint one after eachother, seeing how signet and armor booster work).
Damage reduction does not stack additively.
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