Guild Wars 2

So I’m running as a minion master. My main weapon is a Scepter/Dagger, which I generally like.
My off weapon is Axe/Warhorn, which is good for AOE damage and a speed boost to get around.
However now that I’m level 80, the Axe is starting to grate on me and I’m considering switching both out for a Staff. I used to use a staff at the beginning a lot and the marks were decent though I felt forced to stand in one place in order to use my hands to place mark after mark on the enemy.

What do people think Staff or Axe?

Chrollo.2173:

So I’m running as a minion master. My main weapon is a Scepter/Dagger, which I generally like.
My off weapon is Axe/Warhorn, which is good for AOE damage and a speed boost to get around.
However now that I’m level 80, the Axe is starting to grate on me and I’m considering switching both out for a Staff. I used to use a staff at the beginning a lot and the marks were decent though I felt forced to stand in one place in order to use my hands to place mark after mark on the enemy.

What do people think Staff or Axe?

Good question, and my answer is it depends. (Sorry)

I do a hybrid build and like you, I like the scepter/dagger combo. However, I have started stacking power a bit more (keeping conditions up) and when my cooldowns are on my scepter/dagger abilities, and i have good conditions stacked for a rotation on another weapon i use axe/focus. Focus has some cool things going on, and axe #2 does good damage with 1800 power or so.

All of that goes out the window if im in certain situations in wvw, or sometimes in dungeons. In WvW, axe just gets me in trouble, so I will throw a staff as my alternative weapon,. Add greater marks and +10% dmg on marks and you have a decent backup and ultility weapon. ALso in dungeons, when the boss demands range, I throw the staff in.

So I use both, but, it depends on the situation. If you had to chose, I would go with staff, even though I HATE staff 1 autoattack. I hate the sound, the projectile, the speed of the projectile, and the peeesly damage from 1, as well as the astoundingly slow cast times on marks However, they are needed, thus i use staff.

Hope that helps man.

Thank you for the in depth response. I like the whole “turns into scythe” thing that the staff does though. I remember being unimpressed on the auto-attack though…

I feel like in dungeons or such if I run in with the axe and use my 3, it makes all the enemies just turn and go “who the crap just did that!? GET HIM!” And it doesn’t help that my Flesh Golem usually picks those times to relax and text his g/f or something…

Staff is great, but the auto attack is so slow it doesn’t make sense to use it against anything but group of mobs. The piercing and AoE are what make up for the lack of damage. Great if you’re in a dungeon or a DE. Not so great if you’re out and about trying to kill that guy you aggro’d, down a vet/champ, or any other situation involving few enemies.

Its sort of the ‘swiss army knife’ of our weapons, lot of utility for various things, but you’re not really going to kill anyone with it unless they’re 90% dead already. I’d like to say something nice about the auto-attack, but there really isn’t any, it is as truly awful as others have described.

i believe theoretically what the dev’s wanted was minion masters were to use axes. It inflicts vulnerability which would increase the minion’s damage output. Additionally it looks like to use the focus offhand instead of warhorn.

And if you look at the Spite (power) line this backs it up. Focus recharge trait (focus 4/5) give regen and vulnerability both helpful for minion masters. And then minion damage, and then the last for Axe damage and recharge.

Dagger/Warhorn makes sense as a switch. You got the locust swarm to catch up to enemies while you slash away at them.

On the other hand, staff brings way too many utilities to pass up, however it is a hybrid weapon and the majority of the damage is conditions with only the autos and the direct mark damage which benefits from power.

You can compare autoattack DPS of Necromancer weapons and minion DPS here https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Autoattack-DPS-and-cast-times/first#post259776
Basically:
Dagger > Staff > Axe for power damage
Scepter > Staff for condition damage
Axe > Dagger > Staff > Scepter for Life Force generation
Staff > all for AoE damage

Its important to know that minion damage (and stats overall) is independent from your characters stats. So you can choose what weapon you want to use with your minions.

Axe > Dagger > Staff > Scepter for Life Force generation

I don’t agree with this statement the dagger builds LF faster than axe
dagger can build 4-6% a second where axe is aroud 1% per second.

the staff also generates 3% per second and more if using mark trait.

dagger > staff > axe > scepter – in my opinion

Fiesbert.9816:

You can compare autoattack DPS of Necromancer weapons and minion DPS here https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Autoattack-DPS-and-cast-times/first#post259776
Basically:
Dagger > Staff > Axe for power damage
Scepter > Staff for condition damage
Axe > Dagger > Staff > Scepter for Life Force generation
Staff > all for AoE damage

Its important to know that minion damage (and stats overall) is independent from your characters stats. So you can choose what weapon you want to use with your minions.

For single target burst axe is far better than staff but for aoe you are totally right. If i was going scepter/dagger I would be going axe/focus for the venerability that axe 1 focus 4 and the life saving chill that focus 5 has. if you’re desperate for swiftness spectral walk can be a life saver.

You will not generate more life force with axe 2 skill than you will with dagger 1 ever.

As far as weapon choices imo if you are zerg surfing in wvw staff is the way to go,. although if it comes to a 1 v 1 I wouldnt have anything but dagger/warhorn axe/focus for my weapon choices.

merch.1026:

Axe > Dagger > Staff > Scepter for Life Force generation

dagger > staff > axe > scepter – in my opinion

I agree

Fiesbert.9816:

Dagger > Staff > Axe for power damage

Que? Per your own thread (and I’m assuming you’re talking single target here, as you have a separate line for aoe), shouldn’t it be Dagger > Axe > Staff?

Also, and I’ve said this in your thread as well, if we’re looking at “damage in a power build” (as opposed to “power damage”) it’s actually Dagger > Scepter > Axe > Staff.

okay lets run down the staff vs axe/focus [dagger]

staff : spells
1: garbage i would take it off autocast
2: nice a Hot and a low cooldown aoe bleed not much more to ask for
3: chillblains : freeze ; poison ; poison field – strong for runners and if ur trying to escape
4: Best Staff Skill when used correctly : Not ony is it one of necros only Blast Finishers, it TRANSFERS your conditions to the enemy. Rooted and getting bursted?? Pop 4 instead of a utility and u just saved a cooldown
5: Reapers[long cooldown aoe fear] is the really good at stopping stomps on allies. Stopping revives from enemies and whatever else you need a fear for

axe: not as much range as staff
1: stacks vuln. pretty good if u wanna stack vuln
2. this is the go to spell for dmg with axe -channeled
3. aoe slow and retal. yum

focus :
4 : nice a bouncing HoT and 3: stack vuln [good synergy with axe 1]
5: a nice chill that ALSO strips boons

dagger:
4: Bouncing Blind that also cleanses conditions from you and places on enemies only transfers 3 if i remember correctly [like a weaker staff 4]
5: The Go To Bleed Aoe bomb for close range // med

- staff offers so much when used correctly

imo i would take scepter and dagger offhand with staff as the other wep to switch to during combat the axe is good for 1 thing stacking vulnerability debuffs in a power spec thats it dagger mainhand has a root attacks faster and generates 3-4x more life force if your a condition build you will run with scepter and dagger with staff as your other wep if your power you will most likely run double dagger with staff as your switchable wep during combat your staff has all of your combo fields and finishers and a aoe fear i feel the axe is quite useless and condition builds are always stacking bleeds with scepters auto attack our bleeds dont have the uptime for us to switch to the staff and switch back before the bleed stacks are alrdy gone so staff>scepter>dagger>axe

Xanitus covered it pretty well in his post, however I want to state again that the heal of staff #2 is very very nice in keeping your minions up. Seeing how the only other activation heal would be from focus, since you don’t use it I would really suggest you pick up the staff. It makes your minions a lot more durable and you can finish fights with them at full health.

As far as the auto attack, I have nothing to complain about. It’s no dagger, but does better than the axe. Being able to self combo into aoe weakness is also amazing support for your minions (through staff 3 and 4). The #5 fear is very short, but still gives you some breathing room. All in all, the staff seems to have been made for the MM build, despite what people claim about the axe.

well seeing how necros minions are pretty much useless and take up utility slots that would be much much better suited for other skills i see no reason to use the axe

I played axe/dagger and axe/horn for a while but now prefer scepter/focus and staff. With greater marks and 10% more mark damage it isn’t so bad and I can slap all the marks on a mob in just a few seconds followed by wells, then switch back to scepter/focus for better damage and conditions from a decent range. Dagger/dagger can be fun but carries some risk for a light armor profession without stability.
I use flesh golum for the pet with 30% more damage. Unfortunately, pets often get me killed by kiting a whole group back while I am still cooling from the last fight or stand there looking bored while I do all the work.

Overall in terms of how useful the weapons are:
Staff>Scepter>Off Dagger>Focus>Warhorn>Main Dagger>Axe

Also Staff aa is kitten, but works pretty well with lined up targets and the life force generation is nice if you cant get into melee for dagger, axe has the overall weakest dps (the only saving grace is Unholy feast, even scepters do more because of the bleeds you get if stacking power while staff 3-4-2 does more burst in less time than axe 2 not to mention that it reduces the enemy dps by whooping 83% because of the Weakness and Chill.

Staff is a lot more versatile while also supplying you with a 6 second cooldown regeneration for your allies and minions. If they buffed the axe/focus and gave us a ranged power based weapon, I would consider them.

I feel like the focus cast times are slightly too long for what they do. I know the boon debuffing on spinal shivers is nice but i’d almost prefer a slightly longer cd vs cast time.

Honestly biggest issue i have with axe and dagger (MH) is there isnt a very good (damage) offhand to compliment them. Thats just my opinion though…dagger offhand is nice though i have a hard time landing the 5. Warhorn feels like it was supposed to work with dagger mh. Axe is seriously the most confusing weapon because its auto attack is so lack luster unless you just want vuln shred (which you have on a dozen other abilitys)

Ive actually come to like Axe for my support build. The damage isn’t that bad and the vulnerability stacks really scale well. Make sure to spam 2 though if you need life force as ability 1 generates none. With a boon build Axe #3 is even nicer than it is already.

Axe genrates the most Life Force.
You gain 4% Life Force per hit on 8 hits with http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ghastly_Claws
Thats 32% Life Force. Assuming you use it every time its available and get it through thats 32%/8seconds = 4%/s.

Dagger generats 2% and 4% Life Force with the second and third attack of its chain.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Necrotic_Slash
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Necrotic_Stab
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Necrotic_Bite
The whole chain takes, with front- and backpause, 2,2 seconds to complete.
6%/2,2seconds = 2,72%/s

In both cases its a daring assumption to actually get the whole attack/chain through.
Another big advantage of Axe is, that you don’t have to use its first attack to actually reach the Life Force generation. In between Axe 2 you have 6,75 seconds (8 second cooldown minus channel time) to do something else without lowering your Life Force per second.

So yes, Axe is best at Life Force generation. Second is staff with the http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Soul_Marks trait.

Que? Per your own thread (and I’m assuming you’re talking single target here, as you have a separate line for aoe), shouldn’t it be Dagger > Axe > Staff?

Whoops… You’re right. Was thinking a bit multitarget there…

Staff is really nice for WvW imho. In crit builts it does decent piercing 1-2k dmg with good reach, generates Lifeforce quickly and the Mark Spam can be truly devastating.

I like Axe too over the other 2 onehanders. Good burst with the second skill, Aoe dmg and cripple in the third. First one is questionable but i don’t think it is too bad.

Axe for dd builts and szeptre for condition builts. I don’t see a workable dagger built for WvW. Staff for range and aoe.

Fiesbert.9816:

Axe genrates the most Life Force.
You gain 4% Life Force per hit on 8 hits with http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ghastly_Claws
Thats 32% Life Force. Assuming you use it every time its available and get it through thats 32%/8seconds = 4%/s.

if only this was so, the life force per hit is only 1%, giving you 8%LF force, try it out in the mists against a golem

If you’re running a MM build, it depends on how you’re specced. If you have traits put into increasing their damage or survivability, then i’d say ditch scepter altogether and take axe and staff.

Axe applies vulnerability, which will help your minions kill faster. Staff has abilities which give regen to nearby allies, dump conditions onto enemies, or slow nearby enemies. All of these will make your minions more effective at holding enemies still and battering them down.

If you’re just using the minions for some body blocking to give yourself time to kill the enemy (i.e. not as your primary damage) then i’d say keep scepter, and maybe take staff just because it’s better at harming/controlling packs of enemies.

The only use I can find for Axe is in WvW when I am in a group bigger than 20 or so people because then the vulnerability will increase damage to more then what I could do normally.

In huge blobs Axe doesn’t have the range and in small gangs it doesn’t have the damage.

In small gangs the dagger far outshines the Axes potential for damage and in large scale engagements you are best off using staff.

Axe seems like it will be a very niche weapon until it gets more damage, though it definitely does have its place.

Axe is my favorite weapon at the moment for a berserker 30 spite/30 reaping build. Axe offers -on demand- Life force which is WAY more powerful than a trickle that dagger or staff offer. This is especially true for builds focused on staying in shade as long as possible or as often as possible. Use up shade form – Axe #2 – Back into shade form.

Well staff sucks, Axe sucks and minions sucks change build or change class.

The only ones who say the damage of these are fine haven’t tried other classes.

as an auto-attack finisher how can staff 1 possibly be considered garbage. Necro is quite good at setting up fields and the more people around the more fields you have to shoot through. Yeah it doesnt do as much damage as some other professions but then they dont get DS do they.

Axe never, staff forever.
Well, at least until they buff the hell out of axe. And minions, since it’s theoretically a minion weapon.

The axe is a failure of a weapon, even scepter will outdamage it in a power build. You should never be using it. Use staff for long range(or scepter if you hate staff), dagger for short.

djtool.8372 – it isnt bad, just as a single attack still only having 20% chance to proc the field (only multi attacks usually have that), the slow projectile speed is terrible and it has a kitten annoying loud noise when you are on headphones is what is annoying…

Axe is a good intermediate weapon that can pile on vulnerability. If used correctly you can get at least 10 vulnerable on an enemy. Which may not sound like much but when you are grouped it really starts to show. Basically it is for people who like to play in groups and target bosses.

Drekor.5217:

The axe is a failure of a weapon, even scepter will outdamage it in a power build. You should never be using it. Use staff for long range(or scepter if you hate staff), dagger for short.

Yeah maybe the auto attack, but axe 2 and 3 are both very impressive. If you just want to sit there and auto attack your target then go dagger.
Axe auto is for one thing and one thing only, vulnerability.

Staff is for long range/combo fields/blast finisher/condition transfer/fear

Use both

You shouldn’t be using the staff for the auto attack, you should be using it for the marks, to continuously put up your marks on them to control the fight, put pressure on them, fear to stop stomps or rez’s and most importantly of all putrid mark.

Putrid marks is worth it’s weight in gold for the ability to instantly cleanse all conditions off of your and throw them at whoever triggered the mark.

Axe is a little weak but there are benefits to running the axe. It’s not a projectile weapon, ignores reflect, smoke effects, and Aoe effects that block projectiles. The AOE cripple does does heavy damage and one of the few ways we can obtain Retaliation.

The cripple will help with keeping your pets in range, but more so would be to pack a Focus to combo with the axe to chill them and stack regeneration on yourself.

I use staff all the way. I even love the autoattack myself. The fact it pierces through enemies is AMAZING and makes it a breeze to get tons of Sigil procs if your skilled at lining it up to be efficient.

As said, the downside is when you only have 1 target to kill its lackluster, but there are hardly any situations ive run into where more mobs are not readily available for Mass AOE killing or more people to line up for an efficient use of its effect.

Why do people forget staff attack 1 pierces enemy’s. It’s a straight 1200 shot with a respectable radius that hits everything in its path.

On more then one target it beats dagger.