So, right now, the ele forums are buzzing because one of the devs told them that Elemental Atunement had been changed to a minor trait, so now they don’t have to suffer with Evasive Arcana vs Elemental Attunement. Now, the Necromancer is the only class (as far as I’m aware) being subject to a nerf where two traits that once worked really well together are being split apart by the grandmaster line, and, to make things worse, the only other option in that trait line also competes for a spot on a condition build, forcing us to choose between three things we might like to run if we were condi, and absolutely nothing to choose from if we run power. It seems kind of weird that they’d choose to nerf Necro when they buff everything else. Bear in mind that these changes are coming out before the expansion, so all of the balancing we are hearing about is being done separate of potential changes to keep our Elite Specialization in line after the expansion.
tl;dr
If eles can get Elemental Attunement and Evasive Arcana on the same spec, why can’t we have Lingering Curses and Terror?
Because that’d be too strong. I honestly like the change, even if it is a nerf. It forces condi necros to choose between extremely strong and long lasting conditions for long lasting pressure, versus powerful burst conditions with heavy CC attached. The choice lets there be multiple types of condimancers. If the two were allowed to be taken together, they’d both need to be nerfed, because being the best at condition pressure and burst condition CC would be way the hell too strong.
The dev’s could simply buff fear’s base damage or duration, if more fear condition damage was warranted.
I don’t agree, I am tired of being pushed into one or the other, when other classes are not required to make the same sacrifice. Condi necro is up against a kittenton of cleanses, and fear (terror, etc.) can be cleansed and stun broke, so no, I cannot agree that we have to choose between these two, when I am thinking that condi builds are going the way of the dodo. Incoming revenant, with an ability to group cleanse even more so than ele’s and guards.
We are bottom tier in pve, we are mid tier in spvp (yep, there is one in the top tier … one), and we are in the gwen because of wells, and not because of fear/cc because all our CCs are cleansed/stun broke immediately.
Condi builds are good in roaming, and uh… well…. roaming. They are less useful in spvp because cleanses and stun breaks are a dime a dozen. Why do you ruin our only really useful CC.
SO I vote, we need the ability to have impactful and hard hitting CC dmg, wise, because we don’t have crap for defense outside of DS. The fact that fear can be cleansed and stun broke which completely negates the damage infuriates me and makes me think we are always on the weaker end of things.
AND NO CONDI BUILD WORTH CRAP DOES NOT HAVE TERROR because our condi stacking is crap and we depend on a multitude of condis that are cleansed so easily. Eles were given those skills because specific builds depended on both of those skills, and now cannot get those skills in the upcoming trait build, while will be forced to choose between a skill that causes dmg on fear, and a skill that helps regulate the fact that duration has been removed from the spite line (and we still don’t know where they will make up for the extra duration).
So tired of the popular classes getting perfect changes (i.e. thief and else, and guards), while we are getting utter crap. Still do not have a GM that is worth crap in any third trait line based on our current builds, as most GMs are mediocre at best. Now we take a skill that was ORIGINALLY an adept skill, which was later moved to master, and now projected to be a grandmaster while all the time being freaking nerfed?
I say THANK YOU ANET, for a job terrible done….. again for necro.
(edited by Gryph.8237)
Because that’d be too strong. I honestly like the change, even if it is a nerf. It forces condi necros to choose between extremely strong and long lasting conditions for long lasting pressure, versus powerful burst conditions with heavy CC attached. The choice lets there be multiple types of condimancers. If the two were allowed to be taken together, they’d both need to be nerfed, because being the best at condition pressure and burst condition CC would be way the hell too strong.
They’re already taken together, and it isn’t too strong. I don’t see how you could call that an issue. It really just forces you to choose between two things that worked well together before, removing the synergy that once existed and replacing it with a tough choice. Seriously, why would they need to be nerfed when they aren’t broken as is? If it really is too much to offer those traits in the same line, one could be moved to another line. The Grandmasters in Death Magic are really lackluster and 2/3 only apply to minion masters.
Because that’d be too strong. I honestly like the change, even if it is a nerf. It forces condi necros to choose between extremely strong and long lasting conditions for long lasting pressure, versus powerful burst conditions with heavy CC attached. The choice lets there be multiple types of condimancers. If the two were allowed to be taken together, they’d both need to be nerfed, because being the best at condition pressure and burst condition CC would be way the hell too strong.
They’re already taken together, and it isn’t too strong. I don’t see how you could call that an issue. It really just forces you to choose between two things that worked well together before, removing the synergy that once existed and replacing it with a tough choice. Seriously, why would they need to be nerfed when they aren’t broken as is? If it really is too much to offer those traits in the same line, one could be moved to another line. The Grandmasters in Death Magic are really lackluster and 2/3 only apply to minion masters.
Well, the new Lingering Curse is significantly stronger than it is now. And yes, they’re not overbearing when taken together now, but balance can change in HoT and once the new traits hit.
In current balance, you’re absolutely right, but currently things are balanced to work that way. When everything changes, it will obviously be tuned to work with one or the other. But, design-wise, the new trait system is all about meaningful choices, and if there’s no choice as to what to take to make your condimancer the best, then the trait system has failed.
You’re a Necromancer, not allowed to have nice things! get used to it!
also…Terror is worth it even in its nerfed state cuz scepter at its current form is bad even with the new LC
choice is clear everytime
btw why is no on complaining enough about the placement of Banshee’s Wail?
can someone tell me what fears this well effect with scepter equipped? As far as I know, there are no fears that we can access with scepter other than doom (DS#3), and it will only work when the scepter is selected as your current weapon (as is, the weapon you are currently using).
Are we talking about reapers protection and fears from nightmare runes? So we are going to be railroaded into making a choice between these two skills because of some procs we have no control over, and occur very little in a fight, given the internal cool downs?
Seriously? what fear can you do with a scepter? uh, yeah, doom when you enter DS, and procs from nightmare runes and reapers protection in the DS line.
Screw that, we are being kitten – ed, and I cannot agree to it.
Again, we are being nerfed based on the perfect scenario, which is so freaking old hat and has shown time and time again to never occur. Seriously.
(edited by Gryph.8237)
Because that’d be too strong. I honestly like the change, even if it is a nerf. It forces condi necros to choose between extremely strong and long lasting conditions for long lasting pressure, versus powerful burst conditions with heavy CC attached. The choice lets there be multiple types of condimancers. If the two were allowed to be taken together, they’d both need to be nerfed, because being the best at condition pressure and burst condition CC would be way the hell too strong.
They’re already taken together, and it isn’t too strong. I don’t see how you could call that an issue. It really just forces you to choose between two things that worked well together before, removing the synergy that once existed and replacing it with a tough choice. Seriously, why would they need to be nerfed when they aren’t broken as is? If it really is too much to offer those traits in the same line, one could be moved to another line. The Grandmasters in Death Magic are really lackluster and 2/3 only apply to minion masters.
Well, the new Lingering Curse is significantly stronger than it is now. And yes, they’re not overbearing when taken together now, but balance can change in HoT and once the new traits hit.
In current balance, you’re absolutely right, but currently things are balanced to work that way. When everything changes, it will obviously be tuned to work with one or the other. But, design-wise, the new trait system is all about meaningful choices, and if there’s no choice as to what to take to make your condimancer the best, then the trait system has failed.
Fortunately, the trait changes are coming before HoT, so if it was left nerfed for reaper before reaper exitsed, it would be silly, and with the potential +30% condition duration removed from the spite line, this condition duration boosting trait becomes the only way for necros in spvp to get condi duration outside of runes. The other major issue here is not that I have to make a choice to find my perfect condimancer, it’s that there is no choice for me to find my perfect anything else-mancer. The Curses line comes with the warhorn cooldown reducing trait, which is something a power build might choose to take, but a power build will be left without any options that make sense on a power build when they go to pick a curses grandmaster trait. Honestly, the best option for anet would probably be to fix the weak minor traits in curses by moving good traits in the curses line into that many feel pressured to choose, such as path of corruption, into a minor trait slot, then move down one of the grandmasters, a pre-buff version of lingering curses would do, and make a new grandmaster that is sensible on a power build.
RIOT FOR BETTER TRAITS ON NECRO LINES!
Seriously, the choices are either over the top, or just not even a question in that trait line. haha. It’s just as if necro traits are still just an afterthought and could be improved to make it actually meaningful, vice choosing between traits we currently use in builds.
and they need to start talking about how they will do condi duration, or i see condi builds totally dead.
Because that’d be too strong.
… long lasting conditions for long lasting pressure, versus powerful burst conditions with heavy CC attached.
1. A proper grandmaster setup would look like this:
Offensive condi trait – defensive condi trait (Parasitic Contagion) – power trait.
2. There is no CC attached to Terror, just damage and not a lot of it.
You have access to all your fears either way.
3. Don’t count on Lingering Curse actually getting released with +100% duration, that amount is just rediculous.
So, right now, the ele forums are buzzing because one of the devs told them that Elemental Atunement had been changed to a minor trait, so now they don’t have to suffer with Evasive Arcana vs Elemental Attunement.
That’s actually nice to hear, hopefully they will resolve our Curses line in a similar manner.
Just fyi, Terror getting merged with Target the Weak as a gm minor trait has been suggested many times already, and it was even included in the feedback of our forum specialists.
So… fingers crossed, hope dies last.
Because that’d be too strong.
… long lasting conditions for long lasting pressure, versus powerful burst conditions with heavy CC attached.1. A proper grandmaster setup would look like this:
Offensive condi trait – defensive condi trait (Parasitic Contagion) – power trait.2. There is no CC attached to Terror, just damage and not a lot of it.
You have access to all your fears either way.3. Don’t count on Lingering Curse actually getting released with +100% duration, that amount is just rediculous.
So, right now, the ele forums are buzzing because one of the devs told them that Elemental Atunement had been changed to a minor trait, so now they don’t have to suffer with Evasive Arcana vs Elemental Attunement.
That’s actually nice to hear, hopefully they will resolve our Curses line in a similar manner.
Just fyi, Terror getting merged with Target the Weak as a gm minor trait has been suggested many times already, and it was even included in the feedback of our forum specialists.
So… fingers crossed, hope dies last.
dude, fingers have been crossed for 3 years. How about we just keep drinking whisky and making promises of making toasts to the devs when they finally realize that they keep kittening us hard when compared to the other classes.
I am not referring to reaper, because believe it or not, it makes me want to have some fun again with diff builds. Right now, i have 2 builds (I am not an MM) that i rotate with slight variations depending on the other team makeup, or what i feel like in wvw, and nothing has really change for 2 years.
Chill time. You should know by now Necromancer is for soft CC and melee. Condition damage has been consistently balanced to equal, or below, that of other professions.
Necromancer is a melee profession. If you want range and conditions, play another profession.
I actually think LC vs Terror is fine, if the rest of our profession was balanced including those two traits. LC gives you better conditions over-time (it shouldn’t give condi damage imo), it makes you a longer-term threat, whereas Terror makes you a legitimate burst-threat, something “unique” to Necro (though not atm due to terror being fairly weak).
What they should do is buff Terror so it actually allows for burst conditions, and push for that difference of LC being a more utility pickup, and Terror for burst damage.
I’m more concerned of why Parasitic Contagion is next to the two, while Lingering Curse is not a healthy trait Terror feels UP as a GM, it’s curses/necro in general how the hell did Reaper’s Precision not get merged or removed??
Parasitic Contagion needs to be Blood Magic, and yeah RP is awful, I just think they didn’t have a good idea what to do with it yet.
I actually like if they make terror a minor in curses they can even nerf the damage imo.
I actually think LC vs Terror is fine, if the rest of our profession was balanced including those two traits. LC gives you better conditions over-time (it shouldn’t give condi damage imo), it makes you a longer-term threat, whereas Terror makes you a legitimate burst-threat, something “unique” to Necro (though not atm due to terror being fairly weak).
What they should do is buff Terror so it actually allows for burst conditions, and push for that difference of LC being a more utility pickup, and Terror for burst damage.
call me crazy but I almost feel that Master of terror should be fused with Terror.
Well, you don’t mention that Ele Bolt to the Heart and Fresh Air will share a GM spot, which could potentially kill S/F pvp specs and D/F pve specs entirely if tempest doesn’t make up for it.
Aaaaaand, its not like condition necro would have been viable anyway because of things like shourbow being immune to all conditions.
Just be glad that lingering scepter was buffed. Also I was under the impression that most condi necros took PoC over LC before, so I don’t see why you’re not happy that PoC will be in the master slot.
It is too bad that the necromancer’s condition days are ineffective right now, and proabably will continue to be for the foreseeable future, across the board. Just be glad that if blood magic is “fixed” like the devs said it will be, necro could fulfill a sustain role, which will give them much greater conquest pvp viability compared to a condition DPS source in which all your DPS is mitigated by a warrior constantly blowing into a warhorn while shouting and setting longbow fires.
Edit: for the record the dev that spoiled us on elemental attunment also said that blood magic, inspiration, and engi traitlines changed considerably from when they were shown. I don’t think the blood magic hint has really been dicussed here.
(edited by nearlight.3064)
I actually like if they make terror a minor in curses they can even nerf the damage imo.
Wasn’t Terror’s damage already nerfed when dumbfire came out along with scepter 2 and staff 2?
Parasitic Contagion needs to be Blood Magic…
Why?
Because it heals? What about Spiteful Renewal, Signet Mastery, Unholy Sanctuary, Soul Eater and Blighter’s Boon? Should they all be moved to Blood Magic as well?
Also, we don’t know what Blood Magic is actually going to look like, so it’s really too early to tell if anything should be moved there. But generally, having sustain available in specializations other than Blood Magic is good for build diversity.
LC gives you better conditions over-time (it shouldn’t give condi damage imo), it makes you a longer-term threat, whereas Terror makes you a legitimate burst-threat, something “unique” to Necro (though not atm due to terror being fairly weak).
Several Problems here:
1. As it is, the +100% on Lingering Curse is a huge balance problem for the entire class. Not to mention that you create several conflicting duration overlaps unless you lift the 100% cap, in which case LC would be even more op than it is now.
So for the sake of the argument, let’s assume that the duration on it is lowered to a reasonable amount: somewhere around 30%.
2. Would you still consider yourself a long-term threat with just 30%?
Besides, huge durations like 20 sec bleeds really only make a difference in PvE, where LC is actually getting a nerf because the base duration mod gets removed.
In PvP on the other hand the biggest advantage of having extended durations goes to short duration conditions like Barbed Precision, Dhuumfire, fears or all the chill traits in Reaper’s spec. Anything longer is usually getting cleansed.
This and the fact that even with a condi build you have to setup bursts to do any meaningful damage in the current meta, Lingering Curse just enables you to land more short term pressure with higher CC uptime on fear, chilled, weakness, etc.
3. 150 condition damage isn’t that big of a deal considering how conditions scale with it, like bleeding would just get 7.5 damage per stack.
4. @Terror being “a legitimate burst-threat and something unique to Necro”:
Like I said, in PvP duration extensions are mostly used to increase burst pressure rather than actual long duration conditions. So how would you buff Terror to actually compete with +100%, or just +30% for that matter? Double its damage, or even tripple it? All you’d be doing is turn up the volume on a trait that basically fulfills the same role as Lingering Curse: increase condi pressure.
Also, Terror being a unique necro feature doesn’t mean it can’t be a minor trait. Quite the contrary, if LC didn’t have its stupidly high duration there’d be no reason why the most iconic condition trait of the necro shouldn’t be an automatic unlock by picking Curses, just as much as you unlock Reaper’s Shroud by picking the Reaper spec.
About shoutbow if boon corruption especially in AoE(what are you waiting for devs?!) was more frequent it wouldn’t such a problem, I gave proposition about Curses quite a few times
-Replace Reaper’s Precision with a lesser version of Parasitic Contagio (7-8%) that works in DS
-Add a new GM that grants crit damage based on conditions on foes
-Increase terror damage by 10%
-Changes Lingering Curse to give AoE 180 condition damage to you and allies 600 radius,reduces scepter CD by 20% and improve all conditions durations by 25-33%(mayble lower)
While Blood Magic is not really friendly to condition necro, CPC having a hit proc would help but it’s all about procing it enough with it can’t do and I feel like Blood Magic shouldn’t be the main way of recovery for condition necro, Parasitic Contagion and healing off consumed/transfered/absorbed conditions should be because nothing prevents us from going in Spite Healing which is for all. With Unholy Sanctuary it’s the only non minion GM in Death Magic and since now pretty much all necro specs will stay overtime in DS it could be useful. What we need now is utilities working in DS and some way of interacting with healing from allies.
if boon corruption … was more frequent it wouldn’t such a problem, I gave proposition about Curses quite a few times
-Replace Reaper’s Precision with a lesser version of Parasitic Contagio (7-8%) that works in DS
Why would Parasitic Contagion have to be less effective if it was in a different tier? Or do you mean it should be nerfed if it actually worked all the time?
Also, wouldn’t it be counterproductive to replace Reaper’s Precision with Parasitic Contagion if you think our viability in the current meta hinges on being able to frequently corrupt boons? So in that case, who is going to drop Path of Corruption for it?
And another problem that has been pointed out several times already is that not only has the Curses grandmaster tier no power option, but the master tier doesn’t have any viable PvE trait other than Banshee’s Wail. And while the warhorn is really good for both condition and power builds, it scales a lot better with power and synnergizes better with a melee weapon like dagger.
So basically, the trait that replaces Reaper’s Precision in the Curses master tier should be a PvE condition trait. And Parasitic Contagion just doesn’t fit that requirement.
if boon corruption … was more frequent it wouldn’t such a problem, I gave proposition about Curses quite a few times
-Replace Reaper’s Precision with a lesser version of Parasitic Contagio (7-8%) that works in DSWhy would Parasitic Contagion have to be less effective if it was in a different tier? Or do you mean it should be nerfed if it actually worked all the time?
Also, wouldn’t it be counterproductive to replace Reaper’s Precision with Parasitic Contagion if you think our viability in the current meta hinges on being able to frequently corrupt boons? So in that case, who is going to drop Path of Corruption for it?
And another problem that has been pointed out several times already is that not only has the Curses grandmaster tier no power option, but the master tier doesn’t have any viable PvE trait other than Banshee’s Wail. And while the warhorn is really good for both condition and power builds, it scales a lot better with power and synnergizes better with a melee weapon like dagger.
So basically, the trait that replaces Reaper’s Precision in the Curses master tier should be a PvE condition trait. And Parasitic Contagion just doesn’t fit that requirement.
Who uses PoC or WH trait or WH itself in PvE O.o? Parasitic Contagion is already used in current PvE condition necro builds. The reason for Parasitic Contagion decrease is to not rely on just 1 trait in 1 line for 1 spec for sustain we should find in all lines and not make the others (more)incompatible with condition necro. For curses power GM I already said
-Add a new GM that grants crit damage based on conditions on foes
Condi necro is hardly viable in pvp right now, pretty much one shoutbow and one media guard and you’re countered, and they are on practically every team even made of solos.
They need something that is going to make a big difference for the class and even as it stands now, the duration isn’t going to matter much because condis are shed practically by accident.
Plus, if you could double the duration of every fear while it dealt damage it would be crazy.
I’m fine with both changes. If shoutbow isn’t toned down no one will notice LC.
I actually think LC vs Terror is fine, if the rest of our profession was balanced including those two traits. LC gives you better conditions over-time (it shouldn’t give condi damage imo), it makes you a longer-term threat, whereas Terror makes you a legitimate burst-threat, something “unique” to Necro (though not atm due to terror being fairly weak).
What they should do is buff Terror so it actually allows for burst conditions, and push for that difference of LC being a more utility pickup, and Terror for burst damage.
Terror does not make you a burst threat. And it never will. It is too easily cleansed. Everyone has a ton of cleanse and two stun breaks. So terror is terrible.
The fact that they added dhuumfire and since then all they have done is nerf. The following nerfs need to be reversed in pvp:
1, Terror 17% nerf reversed
2, 1 bleed back to mark of blood – this one really hurts – losing a bleed on a low cd skill (the only one on staff) is huge dps nerf
3, 1 bleed back to grasping dead – see above
4, Weaking shroud keeps no icd but does a full enfeebling blood – this nerf was huge too for bleed spikes
5, Corrupt boon not corrupting all boons – this hurt alot obviously
6, Corrupt boon having a cast time – this hurt
In fact condi necro needs way more than this. Way more. It needs big buffs beyond undoing the previous nerfs because condi cleanse and insta-spike it everywhere
Condi necro is hardly viable in pvp right now, pretty much one shoutbow and one media guard and you’re countered, and they are on practically every team even made of solos.
They need something that is going to make a big difference for the class and even as it stands now, the duration isn’t going to matter much because condis are shed practically by accident.
Plus, if you could double the duration of every fear while it dealt damage it would be crazy.
I’m fine with both changes. If shoutbow isn’t toned down no one will notice LC.
Staff ele is terrible for us too. Owns condi necro.
Not to mention condi necro no longer just farms anything. Cele engi is hardly bad vs condi engi. d/d ele is strong. We have zero favourable matchups.
Mesmers and thief obviously farm condi necro like since the beginning of time.
It isn’t that condi necro isn’t viable. Lots of stuff isn’t viable. But condi necro is mathematically not viable AT ALL. As in it is useless. completely useless.. When people run meta specs you will mathematically do no damage and be totally useless.
Who uses PoC or WH trait or WH itself in PvE O.o?
Everyone uses warhorn in PvE, and if you have more than 2 points in Curses you’ll have Banshee’s Wail as well.
Parasitic Contagion is already used in current PvE condition necro builds.
Parasitic Contagion isn’t used at all, especially in PvE.
I think you didn’t quite get was I was trying to say.
Reaper’s Precision is absolutely useless, there is no game mode or special situation in this game where this trait could ever be better than its alternatives.
That leaves Banshee’s Wail and Path of Corruption, which is fine for PvP but in PvE there aren’t any boons so Banshee’s Wail really is the only option left. Which means if you play PvE the Curses spec forces you to take a warhorn, which is fine for power builds but power builds don’t get any power grandmaster trait. So could you run a condi build in PvE with all those condi gm traits? No, because you don’t have a condi master trait.
Basically, the only way you could pick Curses is with a condi build in PvP.
Plus, if you could double the duration of every fear while it dealt damage it would be crazy.
Think about this: would you rather take 3k damage at once and be stunned for 1 second, or be stunned for 3 seconds and take 1k damage every second?
Clearly longer CCs are worse. So do you really think Terror would be the troublemaker in this combination of the two traits? I would even argue that doubling our fear durations with LC is terrible on its own, without adding the extra damage of Terror.
It’s actually funny how people on the one hand completely overestimate Terror’s damage (because it really isn’t much), but on the other hand forget that we’ll be able to add Dhuumfire and Deathly Chills to our fear lockdowns. And a Reaper will easily be able to apply burning + fear + chilled simultaniously, so… how are those conditions ok but the damage of Terror is too much?
(edited by flow.6043)
Who uses PoC or WH trait or WH itself in PvE O.o?
Everyone uses warhorn in PvE, and if you have more than 2 points in Curses you’ll have Banshee’s Wail as well.
Parasitic Contagion is already used in current PvE condition necro builds.
Parasitic Contagion isn’t used at all, especially in PvE.
I think you didn’t quite get was I was trying to say.
Reaper’s Precision is absolutely useless, there is no game mode or special situation in this game where this trait could ever be better than its alternatives.
That leaves Banshee’s Wail and Path of Corruption, which is fine for PvP but in PvE there aren’t any boons so Banshee’s Wail really is the only option left. Which means if you play PvE the Curses spec forces you to take a warhorn, which is fine for power builds but power builds don’t get any power grandmaster trait. So could you run a condi build in PvE with all those condi gm traits? No, because you don’t have a condi master trait.
Basically, the only way you could pick Curses is with a condi build in PvP.Plus, if you could double the duration of every fear while it dealt damage it would be crazy.
Think about this: would you rather take 3k damage at once and be stunned for 1 second, or be stunned for 3 seconds and take 1k damage every second?
Clearly longer CCs are worse. So do you really think Terror would be the troublemaker in this combination of the two traits? I would even argue that doubling our fear durations with LC is terrible on its own, without adding the extra damage of Terror.
It’s actually funny how people on the one hand completely overestimate Terror’s damage (because it really isn’t much), but on the other hand forget that we’ll be able to add Dhuumfire and Deathly Chills to our fear lockdowns. And a Reaper will easily be able to apply burning + fear + chilled simultaniously, so… how are those conditions ok but the damage of Terror is too much?
Repeaer getting burning?
Repeaer getting burning?
With Dhuumfire, in fact Reaper’s Shroud will probably be the only way to make Dhuumfire a viable trait considering there will no longer be an icd and Reaper has a much faster cleaving auto attack.
Who uses PoC or WH trait or WH itself in PvE O.o?
Everyone uses warhorn in PvE, and if you have more than 2 points in Curses you’ll have Banshee’s Wail as well.
Parasitic Contagion is already used in current PvE condition necro builds.
Parasitic Contagion isn’t used at all, especially in PvE.
I think you didn’t quite get was I was trying to say.
Reaper’s Precision is absolutely useless, there is no game mode or special situation in this game where this trait could ever be better than its alternatives.
That leaves Banshee’s Wail and Path of Corruption, which is fine for PvP but in PvE there aren’t any boons so Banshee’s Wail really is the only option left. Which means if you play PvE the Curses spec forces you to take a warhorn, which is fine for power builds but power builds don’t get any power grandmaster trait. So could you run a condi build in PvE with all those condi gm traits? No, because you don’t have a condi master trait.
Basically, the only way you could pick Curses is with a condi build in PvP.Plus, if you could double the duration of every fear while it dealt damage it would be crazy.
Think about this: would you rather take 3k damage at once and be stunned for 1 second, or be stunned for 3 seconds and take 1k damage every second?
Clearly longer CCs are worse. So do you really think Terror would be the troublemaker in this combination of the two traits? I would even argue that doubling our fear durations with LC is terrible on its own, without adding the extra damage of Terror.
It’s actually funny how people on the one hand completely overestimate Terror’s damage (because it really isn’t much), but on the other hand forget that we’ll be able to add Dhuumfire and Deathly Chills to our fear lockdowns. And a Reaper will easily be able to apply burning + fear + chilled simultaniously, so… how are those conditions ok but the damage of Terror is too much?
I’m not sure I follow? I never said the damage of terror is too much. It would be too much if every fear was doubled in duration and still dealing terror damage, though. Assuming you had a scepter.
To me the issue with condi reaper is that anyone can pick a certain build/runes/sigils/amulet and just press 1 and still see success. Obviously other buttons will matter a lot but if you can just 1 your way to victory, it will be considered a no skill high reward class and be nerfed. Which is too bad that they landed on doubling conditions instead of giving more meaningful (bigger) condi stacks.
All that said, it’s still very hard to see any condition build being successful without nerfs to party wide condition removal.
Repeaer getting burning?
With Dhuumfire, in fact Reaper’s Shroud will probably be the only way to make Dhuumfire a viable trait considering there will no longer be an icd and Reaper has a much faster cleaving auto attack.
Could work. Just looked at the repear traits for the first time though. Amazed how bad they are. Look at chilling force kitten . It only grants 1% life force and you have to strike a chilled foe. Which is rare to happen seen as they have to not cleanse chill and you have to land an attack. Seems stupid to me.
Same for blighters boon. The numbers are just too low I think personally.
Who uses PoC or WH trait or WH itself in PvE O.o?
Everyone uses warhorn in PvE, and if you have more than 2 points in Curses you’ll have Banshee’s Wail as well.
Parasitic Contagion is already used in current PvE condition necro builds.
Parasitic Contagion isn’t used at all, especially in PvE.
I think you didn’t quite get was I was trying to say.
Reaper’s Precision is absolutely useless, there is no game mode or special situation in this game where this trait could ever be better than its alternatives.
That leaves Banshee’s Wail and Path of Corruption, which is fine for PvP but in PvE there aren’t any boons so Banshee’s Wail really is the only option left. Which means if you play PvE the Curses spec forces you to take a warhorn, which is fine for power builds but power builds don’t get any power grandmaster trait. So could you run a condi build in PvE with all those condi gm traits? No, because you don’t have a condi master trait.
Basically, the only way you could pick Curses is with a condi build in PvP.
I’m losing you bro :/ .Bases on my propositions in Curses:
PvE condition necro=Weakening Shroud>Parasitic Contagion>Lingering Curse
PvP condition necro=MoC>PoC>Terror
PvE/P power necro=Chilling Darkness>BW>Punish The Weak(imo)my new proposed power GM
What is the issue?
You just said noone used warhorn in PvE. Flow quoted you saying that and told you thats not true. Now you are saying use BW. Contradicting yourself?
Repeaer getting burning?
With Dhuumfire, in fact Reaper’s Shroud will probably be the only way to make Dhuumfire a viable trait considering there will no longer be an icd and Reaper has a much faster cleaving auto attack.
Could work. Just looked at the repear traits for the first time though. Amazed how bad they are. Look at chilling force kitten . It only grants 1% life force and you have to strike a chilled foe. Which is rare to happen seen as they have to not cleanse chill and you have to land an attack. Seems stupid to me.
Same for blighters boon. The numbers are just too low I think personally.
They aren’t, check this out:
There are 5 targets on a point. A ranger, a pet and a mesmers with clones. Or an engi that used turret, whatever. Chiliblains chills 5 targets. Then mark of blood, putrid mark and reaper’s mark grant 30% life force and 15 stacks of might with those 2 traits. Did you have soul marks? Then it’s 42% life force in 2 seconds or so, assuming you took those traits. Then you can get in with reaper’s shroud and 111 them all, healing you like mad. Might for ever chilled for you hit, 139 health for each hit. Multiply by 5 for each swing. The numbers get pretty big pretty quickly.
Reaper clearly isn’t a 1v1 class but it has some potential in groups. And stronghold.
Repeaer getting burning?
With Dhuumfire, in fact Reaper’s Shroud will probably be the only way to make Dhuumfire a viable trait considering there will no longer be an icd and Reaper has a much faster cleaving auto attack.
Could work. Just looked at the repear traits for the first time though. Amazed how bad they are. Look at chilling force kitten . It only grants 1% life force and you have to strike a chilled foe. Which is rare to happen seen as they have to not cleanse chill and you have to land an attack. Seems stupid to me.
Same for blighters boon. The numbers are just too low I think personally.
They aren’t, check this out:
There are 5 targets on a point. A ranger, a pet and a mesmers with clones. Or an engi that used turret, whatever. Chiliblains chills 5 targets. Then mark of blood, putrid mark and reaper’s mark grant 30% life force and 15 stacks of might with those 2 traits. Did you have soul marks? Then it’s 42% life force in 2 seconds or so, assuming you took those traits. Then you can get in with reaper’s shroud and 111 them all, healing you like mad. Might for ever chilled for you hit, 139 health for each hit. Multiply by 5 for each swing. The numbers get pretty big pretty quickly.
Reaper clearly isn’t a 1v1 class but it has some potential in groups. And stronghold.
Doesnt the bottom line disapear when you take repear? So no soul marks. Our one good minor trait in the game we lose too.
As for your scenario. in reality that will never happen. Although I take your point. Blighters boon is conceptually very very strong. But you wont use it in a condi spec because I assume deathly chill will become kind of required in a condi spec provided it scales decently with condi damage. It needs to do similar damage to terror at the minimum.
You just said noone used warhorn in PvE. Flow quoted you saying that and told you thats not true. Now you are saying use BW. Contradicting yourself?
No condition necros use WH in PvE.
Repeaer getting burning?
With Dhuumfire, in fact Reaper’s Shroud will probably be the only way to make Dhuumfire a viable trait considering there will no longer be an icd and Reaper has a much faster cleaving auto attack.
Also, keep in mind burning is rumored to get a nerf in dps per stack. Dhuumfire could end up largely useless, still. Necromancer has no other source, anyway.
I would rather change Dhuumfire from burning to chill/frost DoT to integrate better with the profession.
You just said noone used warhorn in PvE. Flow quoted you saying that and told you thats not true. Now you are saying use BW. Contradicting yourself?
No condition necros use WH in PvE.
Which was entirely flows point. You are forced into using warhorn for a power build and theres no trait for a PvE condi build.
Repeaer getting burning?
With Dhuumfire, in fact Reaper’s Shroud will probably be the only way to make Dhuumfire a viable trait considering there will no longer be an icd and Reaper has a much faster cleaving auto attack.
Also, keep in mind burning is rumored to get a nerf in dps per stack. Dhuumfire could end up largely useless, still. Necromancer has no other source, anyway.
I would rather change Dhuumfire from burning to chill/frost DoT to integrate better with the profession.
No we need burning purely for condition variety.
You just said noone used warhorn in PvE. Flow quoted you saying that and told you thats not true. Now you are saying use BW. Contradicting yourself?
No condition necros use WH in PvE.
Which was entirely flows point. You are forced into using warhorn for a power build and theres no trait for a PvE condi build.
PvE condition necro=Weakening Shroud>Parasitic Contagion>Lingering Curse
PvP condition necro=MoC>PoC>Terror
PvE/P power necro=Chilling Darkness>BW>Punish The Weak(imo)my new proposed power GM
^For Curses that is.
Necromancer has plenty of conditions: fear, bleed, poison, and the new frost are enough. The profession needs greater access to these, more up-time, rather than more variety. Using Dhuumfire as a throw-away condition to cover a bleed, for example, is a waste of an important slot.
Repeaer getting burning?
With Dhuumfire, in fact Reaper’s Shroud will probably be the only way to make Dhuumfire a viable trait considering there will no longer be an icd and Reaper has a much faster cleaving auto attack.
Could work. Just looked at the repear traits for the first time though. Amazed how bad they are. Look at chilling force kitten . It only grants 1% life force and you have to strike a chilled foe. Which is rare to happen seen as they have to not cleanse chill and you have to land an attack. Seems stupid to me.
Same for blighters boon. The numbers are just too low I think personally.
They aren’t, check this out:
There are 5 targets on a point. A ranger, a pet and a mesmers with clones. Or an engi that used turret, whatever. Chiliblains chills 5 targets. Then mark of blood, putrid mark and reaper’s mark grant 30% life force and 15 stacks of might with those 2 traits. Did you have soul marks? Then it’s 42% life force in 2 seconds or so, assuming you took those traits. Then you can get in with reaper’s shroud and 111 them all, healing you like mad. Might for ever chilled for you hit, 139 health for each hit. Multiply by 5 for each swing. The numbers get pretty big pretty quickly.
Reaper clearly isn’t a 1v1 class but it has some potential in groups. And stronghold.
Doesnt the bottom line disapear when you take repear? So no soul marks. Our one good minor trait in the game we lose too.
As for your scenario. in reality that will never happen. Although I take your point. Blighters boon is conceptually very very strong. But you wont use it in a condi spec because I assume deathly chill will become kind of required in a condi spec provided it scales decently with condi damage. It needs to do similar damage to terror at the minimum.
No the bottom line doesnt vans en you take reaper :/ Reaper is esentiay just another trait line, you get to pick 3 out of the 6 we will have so you can take soul reaping to get soul marks and dhuumfire, curses for condi things and reaper.
Deathly chill does 33% of terror damage and 66% if the target is under 50% hp. Sticking with the theme the weaker they get the stronger we are.
You will see a mixture of this trait or blighters boon on condi builds because if you spec for chill you will put it out everywhere for extra damage or you can go for the extra sustain of blighters since not only can you grant yourself boons but other classes will be throwing them everywhere especially in team fights where reapers are supposed to work best. Just some rough numbers but blighters boon and RS#4 can heal you for like 7k+hp depending on targets and chilled.
@Sagat
Clearly there was a misunderstanding between you two. And i just got involved and made it even more confusing. x)
What it looked like was flow responded to one aspect of your suggestion and outlined the overall problem. You then responded with something while assuming your solution was being considered in his post (it wasnt). Which lead to the confusion.
Doesnt the bottom line disapear when you take repear? So no soul marks. Our one good minor trait in the game we lose too.
Where did you get that crazy idea? No. We have our current 5 traitlines plus elite specializations. You pick any 3, but no more than 1 Elite line.
Soul Reaping + Reaper is 100% kosher.
Repeaer getting burning?
With Dhuumfire, in fact Reaper’s Shroud will probably be the only way to make Dhuumfire a viable trait considering there will no longer be an icd and Reaper has a much faster cleaving auto attack.
Also, keep in mind burning is rumored to get a nerf in dps per stack. Dhuumfire could end up largely useless, still. Necromancer has no other source, anyway.
I would rather change Dhuumfire from burning to chill/frost DoT to integrate better with the profession.
Watch the guard video you can see with no condi damage it does 150 a tick. With condi damage and +33% it does just over 400~500 damage a stack. Scales down to about 300~350 a stack without the +33%. Considering reaper shroud auto will allow you to keep up between 4~12 stacks depending on traits and runes its a lot of damage. Like A LOT.
(edited by Sigmoid.7082)
I’m not sure I follow? I never said the damage of terror is too much. It would be too much if every fear was doubled in duration and still dealing terror damage, though. Assuming you had a scepter.
I just meant to point out (again) that the duration on LC is too long, even on its own.
So if that was lowered you wouldn’t have to worry about certain other traits becoming too powerful in combination with it.
I’m losing you bro :/ .Bases on my propositions in Curses:
PvE condition necro=Weakening Shroud>Parasitic Contagion>Lingering Curse
PvP condition necro=MoC>PoC>Terror
PvE/P power necro=Chilling Darkness>BW>Punish The Weak(imo)my new proposed power GMWhat is the issue?
Parasitic Contagion is not a PvE trait. PvE is all about dps, you don’t need healing traits.
So if you moved PC to master tier instead of Reaper’s Precision you’d end up with this:
PvE condi: any adept trait – meh – Terror.
Why Terror? Because you can easily get max durations with food and gear, so Terror will probably add up to more damage than the +150 condi damage from LC.
PvP condi: whatever – PoC – LC.
No condition necros use WH in PvE.
Which was entirely flows point. You are forced into using warhorn for a power build and theres no trait for a PvE condi build.
Quick side note: a traited warhorn with sinister gear can do more bleeding damage with Barbed Precision than the dagger’s Enfeebling Blood. But still, atm Curses forces you to take warhorn in PvE, and that issue can be resolved by removing/reworking Reaper’s Precision.
Could work. Just looked at the repear traits for the first time though. Amazed how bad they are. Look at chilling force kitten . It only grants 1% life force and you have to strike a chilled foe. Which is rare to happen seen as they have to not cleanse chill and you have to land an attack. Seems stupid to me.
Same for blighters boon. The numbers are just too low I think personally.
Lol, I think you might be the first to dislike the new Reaper traits.
Especially Chilling Force and Blighter’s Boon will be really nice if they remain without icd.
@Chilling Force: it’s a lot easier than you think, keep in mind this works with aoe as well. Also, consider the skills you get with Greatsword and Reaper’s Shroud, there’s even an ice field you can whirl through and crits against chilled foes can trigger Chilling Nova for even more aoe chill. And I think Chilling Darkness might see a rise in popularity. Anyway, I doubt you’ll see a shortage of chilled foes with the Reaper, so 1% might even be rather high considering some of our multi-hit skills could completely refill our lf pool with this trait.
@Blighter’s Boon: Now combine that trait with Chilling Forc: Imagine RS#4 Soul Spiral + Locust Swarm through a precast ice field (or leap through for Frost Armor): every hit generates might + life force + hp. And this is just what you can do on your own, if you add all the boon sharing of other classes in team fights you’ll end up with a serious chunck of sustain.
Also, think about how people stack might and swiftness at the beginning of a PvP match, this trait basically makes it possible to start with a considerable amount of life force.
So I get that it might not seem like a lot on paper but I’m sure it will add up to quite a lot in actual fights.
Repeaer getting burning?
With Dhuumfire, in fact Reaper’s Shroud will probably be the only way to make Dhuumfire a viable trait considering there will no longer be an icd and Reaper has a much faster cleaving auto attack.
Could work. Just looked at the repear traits for the first time though. Amazed how bad they are. Look at chilling force kitten . It only grants 1% life force and you have to strike a chilled foe. Which is rare to happen seen as they have to not cleanse chill and you have to land an attack. Seems stupid to me.
Same for blighters boon. The numbers are just too low I think personally.
They aren’t, check this out:
There are 5 targets on a point. A ranger, a pet and a mesmers with clones. Or an engi that used turret, whatever. Chiliblains chills 5 targets. Then mark of blood, putrid mark and reaper’s mark grant 30% life force and 15 stacks of might with those 2 traits. Did you have soul marks? Then it’s 42% life force in 2 seconds or so, assuming you took those traits. Then you can get in with reaper’s shroud and 111 them all, healing you like mad. Might for ever chilled for you hit, 139 health for each hit. Multiply by 5 for each swing. The numbers get pretty big pretty quickly.
Reaper clearly isn’t a 1v1 class but it has some potential in groups. And stronghold.
Doesnt the bottom line disapear when you take repear? So no soul marks. Our one good minor trait in the game we lose too.
As for your scenario. in reality that will never happen. Although I take your point. Blighters boon is conceptually very very strong. But you wont use it in a condi spec because I assume deathly chill will become kind of required in a condi spec provided it scales decently with condi damage. It needs to do similar damage to terror at the minimum.
No the bottom line doesnt vans en you take reaper :/ Reaper is esentiay just another trait line, you get to pick 3 out of the 6 we will have so you can take soul reaping to get soul marks and dhuumfire, curses for condi things and reaper.
Deathly chill does 33% of terror damage and 66% if the target is under 50% hp. Sticking with the theme the weaker they get the stronger we are.
You will see a mixture of this trait or blighters boon on condi builds because if you spec for chill you will put it out everywhere for extra damage or you can go for the extra sustain of blighters since not only can you grant yourself boons but other classes will be throwing them everywhere especially in team fights where reapers are supposed to work best. Just some rough numbers but blighters boon and RS#4 can heal you for like 7k+hp depending on targets and chilled.
Wow, well that seems pretty good. Condition necro could make a comeback based around soul reaping, reaper and curses. Seems like it could be pretty good too. Shame you lose torment though, although our torment application was obviously very bad.
If they add dire to pvp then condi necro could become viable again. If not then I doubt it will be good because you either take carrion and get farmed by direct damage insta-cast skills or procs or you take rabid and just die to random warrior/ele/engi perma burning.
A condi necro spec could at least be ok after the patch though if you take curses, soul reaping and repear. Pick up duumfire and deathly chill. Take soul marks, master of terror. Terror and path of corruption (if it works the repear trait in an aoe way that seems pretty kitten good). Then take flesh wurm, spectral walk and corrupt boon as usual. With dire that could be a viable spec. Without it wont be very good, but at least its way better than we have currently.
Staff and scepter/dagger
(edited by Lordrosicky.5813)
Simpler than that. Chilling Force + Blighter’s Boon + Greatsword. Auto for the chill, then pop Gs3 for 24% life force per target. It hits 6 times in incredibly rapid succession.
And you get 6 stacks of Might yourself and 12 stacks of Vulnerability on your target.
@Spoj I see imo.
@Flow There is always some sort of sustain it’s never just dps as long as you don’t lose much of it, if condition mobs make it to HoT necro support will be needed, transfer+Epidemic+Parasitic Contagion should/will be more useful. PvE just doesn’t support us much right now kitten like food doesn’t help either. Terror might affect breakbar but you will lose overall dps using staff and whatever other fear you can add imo.
Lots of possibilities and speculations but I do see a bit of light for some reason Robert doesn’t give me usual GW2 dev vibe.
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