Guild Wars 2

I haven’t seen this skill used for anything other than a stomp. I was looking over some older skills from GW1 and I think Tainted Flesh and the old Disease mechanic is great inspriation for a worthy Plague elite.

Concept
Plague should be a skill designed to manipulate conditions and serve as the lynchpin to the condition necro builds. I think this was the original intent of the skill, but as is it’s so weak that it’s only used for a quick stability. Plague should be used as a way to not only apply conditions, but keep them applied as well, through reapplication duration increasing, and boon flipping. I won’t be adding numbers suggestions for durations, cooldowns, cast time, or percentages to skills.

Plague Passives

1. Conditions you apply to yourself have 100% increased duration.
2. Foes that strike you are poisoned.
3. Foes that strike you bleed
4. Foes within 300 range are weakened

Plague Actives

Plague Skill 1

• Copy conditions inflicted to nearby foes to yourself. You become vulnerable for each condition copied.

Plague Skill 2

• Transfer conditions from yourself to nearby foes. Foes become vulnerable for each condition transferred.

Plague Skill 3

• Copy conditions from nearby allies. Allies gain regeneration for each condition copied.

Plague Skill 4

• Corrupt 2 boons on target foe (CD inline to allow only 1 -2 uses per Plague CD).

I know this somewhat goes against the team philosophy that ANet spelled out in regards to Mallyx mechanics, but I think given the fact that these proposed mechanics revolve around a single skill rather than a playstyle, it’s a little more reasonable. It’s also within the realm of the Necromancer’s current themes in regards to corruption skills.

Is it OP? Is it just dumb? If it’s decent, throw some numbers out there to make it realistic and viable. Let me know what you think or if it inspired some better ideas for one of our most iconic skills.

Thanks guys don’t be too rough

I like the idea of adding condi manipulation and more pressure to plague as an elite, but the current plague is good already. Don’t know why people hate, it applies aoe weakness, cripple, blind, and poison while also giving stab and a bunch of hp and toughness. Maybe they could just add a few of your ideas as the 4 and 5 skills on plague to give it more variety.

Also, complete reworks are rare, and your better off changing around or buffing just a few things. For instance, you could implement a lot of your ideas like this:

Plague: Pulsing Stab as it is now. Pulses out 3 seconds of poison, 3 seconds of bleed, and 2 seconds of cripple by default. 1 stack of poison is applied to you for 3 seconds every second

Withering Plague: Add 3 stacks of bleeding and 2 stacks of poison for 3 seconds to your plague.

Plague of Darkness: Apply blind to enemies for 3 seconds and apply 2 stacks of vuln for 3 seconds.

Plague of Pestilence: Apply weakness for 3 seconds and 2 stacks of torment for 3 seconds.

Plague of Suffering: Remove 1 condition every second from yourself and apply that condition to nearby foes. Apply 1 bleed for 3 seconds to yourself.

Plague of Corruption: Corrupt a Boon from enemies. Copy 3 conditions from enemies.

Basically, I tried to take some of your ideas, and implement them into the current functionality of pulsing stuff basing their balance around the fact that plague is a corruption and hurts you. Since you have 40k ish health it might be okay, and this would definitely give a lot of play to it. The problem with your regen and condis from allies ideas is that a plague won’t ever really help anyone. Plagues are mostly about hurt.

Lower the duration and lower the cooldown massively. That’s all it needs. It’s a really good skill but it’s duration makes it a nuisance for enemies and wasteful for the necro.

And I mean 6 second duration with a 90 second cooldown “massive.” Bleeds and poisons would need a boost to be noticeable but that would be a perfect plague form in my eyes.

Fine. 10 second duration, 120 second cooldown.

By Tuesday you say? Sounds perfect. Good doing business with you, Anet.

It’s always felt like our worst elite to me, a turtling form meant to delay the inevitable death that is coming.

Plague should be a dangerous area denial tool, not some tickling inconvenience that periodically applies a few conditions.

The plague should apply all the conditions and have meaningful pulsing damage. Increase the duration of the conditions, 2 seconds of 2 stacks bleeding is pitiful.

Basically, it needs bite, instead of currently being used only for the blind spam.

Zenith.7301:

It’s always felt like our worst elite to me, a turtling form meant to delay the inevitable death that is coming.

Plague should be a dangerous area denial tool, not some tickling inconvenience that periodically applies a few conditions.

The plague should apply all the conditions and have meaningful pulsing damage. Increase the duration of the conditions, 2 seconds of 2 stacks bleeding is pitiful.

Basically, it needs bite, instead of currently being used only for the blind spam.

The thing is though, delaying the inevitable for 20 seconds is really really good in conquest. Also, blinds, weakness and poison can turn a teamfight without anyone even noticing.

zapv.8051:

Zenith.7301:

It’s always felt like our worst elite to me, a turtling form meant to delay the inevitable death that is coming.

Plague should be a dangerous area denial tool, not some tickling inconvenience that periodically applies a few conditions.

The plague should apply all the conditions and have meaningful pulsing damage. Increase the duration of the conditions, 2 seconds of 2 stacks bleeding is pitiful.

Basically, it needs bite, instead of currently being used only for the blind spam.

The thing is though, delaying the inevitable for 20 seconds is really really good in conquest. Also, blinds, weakness and poison can turn a teamfight without anyone even noticing.

Yeah, but I want a use for it in PvE as well. Lich Elite has been constantly nerfed for pvp purposes, is basically a crappier rampage now with a hilarious reduction in duration, no access to utility usage, destroys minions, no damage mitigation, and it actually is not a DPS upgrade to a reaper doing his greatsword rotation.

I mean, it would be really nice for condition/hybrid necromancers to get some love in this elite.

Another good improvement for Plague would be to remove it from the Corruption category entirely, remove the self-inflicted conditions completely. This would be an amazing buff, balanced by it no longer being affected by Master of Corruption.

It’d need a new tool-tip tho. Something like;

“hey ANET. If it isn’t broken, don’t try to fecking fix it!”

Another skill that could be greatly improved by this style of fix would be Consume Conditions.

Zenith.7301:

snip

I think my changes would at least make it better in pve with condi removal, and better aoe condis. I’m not against it getting pve buffs, but it’s already good in pvp, and that is where they balance so that has to be kept in mind.

wolfyrik.2017:

Another good improvement for Plague would be to remove it from the Corruption category entirely, remove the self-inflicted conditions completely. This would be an amazing buff, balanced by it no longer being affected by Master of Corruption.

It’d need a new tool-tip tho. Something like;

“hey ANET. If it isn’t broken, don’t try to fecking fix it!”

Another skill that could be greatly improved by this style of fix would be Consume Conditions.

I disagree, plague functions really well currently as a corruption. 120 second cd is super nice, and it definitely fits the them of a plague. The bleed and poison is minor in consideration of how strong it is.

As for consume conditions, they could keep it as a corruption and it would be fine. It just needs something other than blind, maybe poison. Then lower the base cd back to 25 seconds, and change the trait to grant resistance or drop the trait to adept tier.

wolfyrik.2017:

Another good improvement for Plague would be to remove it from the Corruption category entirely, remove the self-inflicted conditions completely. This would be an amazing buff, balanced by it no longer being affected by Master of Corruption.

How in the world is increasing the duration by 60 seconds (no longer affected by MoC) an “improvement”? It isn’t.

It’s a great skill as it is, including being the single best source of stability in the game (duration-wise). Leave it alone.

zapv.8051:

Zenith.7301:

snip

I think my changes would at least make it better in pve with condi removal, and better aoe condis. I’m not against it getting pve buffs, but it’s already good in pvp, and that is where they balance so that has to be kept in mind.

wolfyrik.2017:

Another good improvement for Plague would be to remove it from the Corruption category entirely, remove the self-inflicted conditions completely. This would be an amazing buff, balanced by it no longer being affected by Master of Corruption.

It’d need a new tool-tip tho. Something like;

“hey ANET. If it isn’t broken, don’t try to fecking fix it!”

Another skill that could be greatly improved by this style of fix would be Consume Conditions.

I disagree, plague functions really well currently as a corruption. 120 second cd is super nice, and it definitely fits the them of a plague. The bleed and poison is minor in consideration of how strong it is.

As for consume conditions, they could keep it as a corruption and it would be fine. It just needs something other than blind, maybe poison. Then lower the base cd back to 25 seconds, and change the trait to grant resistance or drop the trait to adept tier.

Except that it functioned just as well before being a corruption and didn’t kill you at all. The bleed and poison maybe minor but there’s no good reason for having them in the first place. A better, more efficient option would simply to not have them at all. Plage never deserved such a massive cooldown anyway, its removal of minions and utilities were more than enough compensation for its power. I don’t believe for a second that the self-conditions are the only thing preventing other classes calling plague form OP for it’s two minute cooldown.

And CC, they could not keep it as a corruption and it would still be fine. infact it would be better because it wouldn’t contradict it’s own purpose. It’s Consume Conditions not Consume Conditions then Add Two More Potentially Fatal Ones.

Misguided.5139:

wolfyrik.2017:

Another good improvement for Plague would be to remove it from the Corruption category entirely, remove the self-inflicted conditions completely. This would be an amazing buff, balanced by it no longer being affected by Master of Corruption.

How in the world is increasing the duration by 60 seconds (no longer affected by MoC) an “improvement”? It isn’t.

It’s a great skill as it is, including being the single best source of stability in the game (duration-wise). Leave it alone.

Or we could not increase the cooldown (no one has complained about it). What’s more that only applies to MoC. LEt’s not forget that MoC is a terrible answer to corruptions anyway, especially since Consume Conditions gain’s a tiny CD decrease, given that they actually increased it’s CD to 25 seconds, which was unnecessary. A 5 second increase for people who don’t slot MoC to compensate for a couple of seconds decrease below the original CD, for people who do, with poision and vulnerability thrown in on top. Now please point me to the people who were complaining about CC needing such a massive nerf, as to require a whole trait, self conditions and an increased cooldown, in order to make it balanced. For anyone who can’t take MoC in their build (and arguably those who do as well) CC has been massively nerfed.

am i the only one who still wants it to be a well and not a corruption? really? ok...

No way, you remove the most useful option in plague(apart from the stability), the Blind!!!
I also like to have some changes, but constant blind pulsing is actually the one thing that is beneficial…
The change it need is on top of the defensive use(blind and weakness) it need to apply pressure as well.

Skill 1: Add burn or make it pulse 5 bleeds and 2 poisons per tick. Also add 1sec regeneration to allies.
Skill 2: Add 1sec protection or retaliation per tick or both
Skill 3: Add swiftness and vigor.

Something else I think would be cool.
Add skill 4: Shatter your current stance(skill 1-3 are like stances)
Skill 1: Giving powerful burst aoe damage and healing, but putting the current stance in cd.
Skill 2: Aoe stability(3-5sec), Aegis, protection, vigor(or some combination of this boons)
Skill 3: Spread few conditions to all foes around you(similar to signet of spite, but aoe)

If this sound to powerful make the shatter skill to end the elite skill. Giving the option to save your allies/pressure your foes at the beginning or wait till the end of the elite duration.
Also make the shatter instant cast, so it doesnt interrupt rez or stomp.

The skill is useful in WvW and Courtyard.

In Pve it is junk (low damage). In Conquest it is junk (you just aren’t threatening, and the extra toughness hardly stalls for you).

But if Anet wants to break “WvW Pirate Ship Meta” then this is one of the skills they could buff.

I still think it would be nice if it did the following. It’d feel like you were actually a plague.

Plague: Gain toughness and vitality and then apply 2 stacks of bleed and blind for 4 seconds every second to nearby foes. Also spread all conditions you’re suffering from to enemies in range with each pulse. 180 second cooldown.

I however think that plague should be a skill that grow and evolve(like a actual plague), for example it should start pulsing additional conditions as time goes on, like every 5 seconds it starts to pulse other types of condis, such as by 5th second it starts to pulse vulnerability, weakness on 10, confusion on 15, torment by 20, and fear by 25.

And visually we will see the plague partical effect increase and expand as time progress

Edit: theme wise, from the opponent’s view its a cloud that they cantry to damage- stand in it and chillx in(like a mild cold that no one give a crap about) and slowly it become unbearable (yes by 20th sec it’s basically Ebola) to be in side the horrific thing, and near the end, you loose control of your character (the fear pulse start at 25sec)be cause they don’t wanna be inside the hyper plague.

To counter it? Focuse down the necro before he use the plague of course(jk). No seriously? Just walk out of the plague.

This one and Tornado always felt wrong to me. Getting just 3 skills that change the nature of a passive pulsing effect is rather boring. And necromancer already has Lich form as a transformation.

So I’d go crazy on this thing. Complete redesign. Rather than keeping it a transformation, I’d change it into an effect that lasts little and has a lower recharge but it’s very powerful in that little time. Something like 7 seconds every 90 seconds.

Instead a skill bar change, it’ll have three effects:

• On activation: The necromancer gains 0.5 seconds of resistance for every condition on self.
• During the effect:
  • No longer transforms the necromancer, nor replaces the skill bar, instead they get a shadowy effect similar to Reaper of Grenth, but darker and with a dark green mist flowing from the necromancer to indicate the range.
  • Toughness and vitality are still increased during the duration, but not nearly as much, instead, part of the increase is a fixed amount based on level, and the rest scales with the number of different conditions on self. Even with every conditions on self, it’ll be still less increase than the current version. With no conditions it’ll be just about 10% of the base vitality and toughness or so.
  • Attacking the necromancer will spread one of the the conditions the necromancer is suffering onto the attacker. This can only happen once per second per attacker.
• On pulse:
  • No longer pulses stability.
  • Still deals poison to up to 5 enemies.
  • Still causes self-bleeding; and self-poison with master of corruption.
  • Now extends the duration of all conditions on self by 1 second.
  • Now transfers 1 condition from up to 5 allies to yourself, then gives them the corresponding converted boon (bleeding->vigor, burning->aegis, crippled->swiftness). If at least one ally loses a condition this way, the pulse also gives you 1s of resistance.
  • The radius would be decreased to 180, to leave breathing room in capture points.
• On end: The final pulse will be a blast finisher that will send up to a whooping 7 conditions to each of up to 5 enemies, then remove any remaining conditions from self, gaining life force for each of those remaining conditions removed that way, up to 25% of your life force bar.
• If downed: Getting downed would remove the effect without triggering the final effect.

I believe something like this would make it feel more like a ‘corruption plague’, a risky double edged sword that can turn the tides or be turned against you.

This basically builds up a critical mass of conditions that will explode on enemies when it ends unless they push you away or take you down. Best used under heavy condition pressure and with at least a nearby ally. With a deadly payload if enemies dilly-dally and stay around when it ends, and a little bit of support to move some condition pressure from allies to self.

In a week every player will know and run far from us before the skill ends. So predictable, and useless. All skills/effects must be activated, so you can choose the momment you use specific option. Same as it is at the moment. The existing concept is pretty good, it just need buff in damage and some additional advantages/side effects.

mazut.4296:

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In a week every player will know and run far from us before the skill ends. So predictable, and useless. All skills/effects must be activated, so you can choose the momment you use specific option. Same as it is at the moment. The existing concept is pretty good, it just need buff in damage and some additional advantages/side effects.

If running away was so easy, Tempest overloads and any skill with more than 3 second activation would be useless too.

I’d rather they don’t change plague. It’s already one of the most useful, clutch, and widely used elite for the necromancer class. I do like the idea of adding a #4 option and make it a condi transfer (#4 is usually our condi transfer too so it fits).