Guild Wars 2

My idea is simple, change the trait Rending Shroud in order to make it a bit more useful.
Currently the trait is not so bad when you play by yourself, but when you play in a party it becomes almost useless due to the excessive amount of vulnerability that the different professions can inflict (some of them can reach 25 stack just by themselves).

Now… I would like the trait changed to function as the group empowerment traits (Example: Empower Allies):

current Trait:

  Constantly apply vulnerability to nearby foes while in shroud
    3 Vulnerability (10s): 3% Incoming Damage, 3% Incoming Condition Damage
    Number of Targets: 5 
    Interval: 3s 
    Radius: 360

updated Trait:

  Decreases toughness of nearby foes while in shroud
    Decreased Toughness (9s): -150 Toughness
    Number of Targets: 5 
    Interval: 3s 
    Radius: 360

The new version will works exactly as the old one, just the effect will be different.
The new effect will not stack, will just refresh itself.
The effect is not a condition so cannot be removed or converted.

How much -150 toughness do?

- 2000 armor foe (zerk light armor), about 8% extra physical damage;
- 2600 armor foe (Test Golem), about 6% extra physical damage;
- 4000 armor foe, about 4% extra physical damage.

How will this affect the game?

If you do not use this trait there will be no difference from now… in general only power necros have access to it and generally this trait is not very popular.

With the current trait as the only source of vulneraility you are able to inflict and maintain 9+ stacks on nearby foes when in solo but in a party is wasted because foes get 25 stacks of vulnerability in less then 2 seconds…

With this new version of the trait you will get an avereage of 6% extra physical damage in solo, in party you will not lose it and everyone else that do physical damage will also be able to do more damage.

You can see it like to be able to break the limit of 25 stack of vulnerabilty to reach 31 stacks for physical damage.

What do you think?

That’s a pretty good idea.

I like how you did your homework on it’s effects vs different armor values. I will however add a point to consider here:

150 toughness deduction is a pure power damage boost. It does nothing for condies, while vulni does boost both types of damage.
If it is to replace vulni generation (which is one of the necro’s strong points and i like it that way), it should also affect condi damage somehow if you ask me.

Making it effect condi would just mean people will still ignore power in anything competitive. Pure power only please.

Initially I also thought about this possibility, but I rejected it for many reasons, here just a few of them:

- This trait is in the Spite tree, usually used only by Power Necros, so is marginal for him to also have an additional condition damage enhacement;
- The change is not a true limitation because generally there are many other skills that allow a Necro to reach 25 Stacks of Vulnerability in solo, in party this little bonus in the physical damage is better than with the current trait that give nothing to the team;
- Having seen a few weeks ago a video made by my guild where condi rangers are able to reach 47k dps makes me think that there is no need to add more fuel to that fire;
- There isn’t a base stat which allows to decrease “condition defence” and all party traits (like Empower Allies) just add a bonus to one stat, not more;
- But mostly I wanted to balance an accettable nerf the solo play to strengthen the team play.

At least that’s how I see it.

Lahmia – your wording is bit misleading there. People ignore power necro in anything competitive. Just saying power makes it sound like every meta for every profession is condi, power being the unwanted red-haired step child.

Hash – 47k dps on condi ranger? i find that absurd value hard to believe, though quite tasty if real (which if possible at all is most likely under unachieveable conditions in real raids).

Now here’s the thing – boosting power necro’s damage is completely different story then boosting all power classes’ damage via such a debuff. This can seriously shake up the balance with elementalists, which are current #1 damage classes for boss raids with large hitbox (and we’re talking power damage here) escaping even further ahead from the rest.

A buff like that will not make power necro desired, it’ll make necro with this specific trait desired. Nowhere does it say he has to be a power build.
It may help bridge the the condi vs power reaper personal dps gap, but it’s gonna shake up a lot of unrelated stuff while there.

If you’re out for that then sure. But if you’re out for party utility and more dps for power necro without affecting the whole ecosystem of all professions while you’re at it, then another option or more might be in order.

Peronally for longest time i was under impression that:

a) power necro = strong sustain, strong party play (blood magic fits well with power), weaker dps, kittenty condi counter-play (even if you transfer them off, they do no damage because you’re power)

b) condi necro – powerful corrupting, strong condi damage, stronger dps then power, but poor sustain on both health and life force fronts.

This is changing with new builds, but i would say this may be the key to solving power necro’s personal dps problem. Corruptions and condi transfers are greatly rewarded if you’re a condi build (high condi damage). On power it’s 50% the effect (you got rid of them, but the enemy just got tickled). Maybe if there were perosnal direct damage buffs associated with successful condi transfer and corruptions, power necro would get his spot back without affecting everyone else.

Also while condi necro should get more ….stable dps source (counting on ice field in raids where it’s a mess of everyone’s combo fields is asking for a bit much) he should be behind condi ranger dps wise.
That is because necro has a lot more condi utility then condi ranger. Necro can transfer condies off alies to himself and into enemies for additional dps. Rangers don’t have epidemic. Rangers can’t corrupt boons on enemies. They sure don’t have half the tools to deal with condies applied to them either. Projectile protection is also looking better for necro – corrosive posion cloud which is a big safe cirle vs wonky whirling defense (with offhand axe no one uses in raid builds) or staff’s sublime conversion, which is a dps loss, as that staff has to reaplace a real dps weapon if we’re talking dps condi ranger and not support druid.

For ranger getting some real supporting skills, means axing his dps. For necro getting around to support allies as oddball his ways of doing it may be, means very little sacrifices to dps if any.

Corrosive posion cloud? Does very nice poison dps on it’s own.
Plague signet? Also an extra dps option if used right.
epidemic? Sheer dps monstrosity.
Signet of vampirism? heal and extra dps while you’re there.
transfusion? Performed with shroud #4 – it doesn’t break your dps rotation at all, you just heal/ress as you dps.

Only two…ok three things i would suggest for necro’d dps are:
- boosts to direct damage on condi transfers/corrupts. So it’s inline with condi necro when his transfers/corrupts mean actual damage.
- less reliance on ice combo field for his damage (because in real raiding situations it’s sheer luck to get combo field you want for your whirl finisher).
- fix core necro’d deathshoud. It’s completely useless, helps with just about nothing, and adds insult to injury seeing how amazingly well reaper shroud fits into different kinds of builds and situations.

You know what I mean though Zef. If they did make it effect both power and condi builds, people would just run condi necro and ignore power as they do currently. So it would in effect change nothing.

I’d like it if it wasn’t just a passive damage boosting effect altogether; like

When in shroud all attacks are unblockable.

Though zeff say a lot of interesting thing, I have an issue with this sentence :

A buff like that will not make power necro desired, it’ll make necro with this specific trait desired. Nowhere does it say he has to be a power build.

The fact is that warriors are taken for 2 traits (mainly) : PS and EA which are both conveniently in tactics and benefit power creeps.
The fact is that engi found a new breath in group content due to Pinpoint distribution which break your so called frail balance since it’s an unique buff.
The fact is that chronomancer are taken because they have so many usefulness that it’s almost unfair.
The fact is that people take druid over other profession as healer because of grace of the land which improve a bit ore the DPS of the whole party.
The fact is that if you take a revenant it’s for it’s Herald ability to lengthen the duration of boons.
The fact is that an elementalist hit hard while still providing a tremendous amount of support that help the whole group in it’s unique jack of all trade design. Elementalists fart boons almost unconsciously.

This left 3 professions : necromancer, guardian and thief which at the moment do not provide a substancial and unique amount of support and can only be seen as a mean to do damage. Guardians overshadow necromancers in this area and thiefs have a DPS style that garantee results that necromancers won’t ever be able to dream of.

The necromancers need something to contend against other powerhouse. They need something that make them desirable and benefit to everybody. The necromancer just can’t continue to brim with selfishness for a pityable result. The necromancer definitely do not need more personal damage but they do need real support to the team. Taking a necromancer for it’s ability to revive people is like saying : “We are all crap so we will definitely need someone to revive us!” Personally, I tink that a group that think like that is bound to fail at whatever they do.

It is funny and sad at the same time how people forget about Vampiric Presence, the party damage buff that necromancer already has. Fact is it’s so utterly bad it’s not even considered.

Necromancers are a benefit to those around them, just that majority of ppl fail to see it because it’s not visible raw dps.

Support healing without breaking dps rotation, freeing up druids to go more dps (vampiric presence charging their CA like crazy), raid wipe saves when you transfusion downed ppl out of certain death scenario, projectile block that’s not a light field and does decent damage on it’s own (CPC), transferring condies off allies and using them as a weapon (plague signet).

Necro has party things going for him.

The real issue here is the dps. Unreliable for condi (ice field dependant), too low for power.

Condi issue solutions:
a) self field priority option (but not a must)
b) change whirl finisher to projectile. Then drop the field move to it’s rear (where there are no other fields) and spin 2 win. Projectile finishers will not miss because you’re not in point blank range.
c) move the chill mass aplication to another part of necro kit.

Power issue. I’ll say it straight – i believe that outside too low damage in general, the idea behind power necro and the balance of it’s roles (pure power, power tank, power healer) etc is great. What’s inside is well adjusted, it works well. It’s just that the damage overall is lacking.

Here i see 3 solutions as well:
a) adjust skill damage coefficients to higher values.
b) adjust skill cast times to lower values
c) introduce additional temporary direct damage % boost that activates with necro making some sort of play (facing enemy frontally, landing a crit, getting hit in shroud, on condi cleanse, ally heal..whatever). I’ll let others ponder on that for now.

I’m generally saying that before we go to town with whole raid group wide balance via a new dps profession specific buff, let’s first fix necro dps problem “inhouse” and then without the burden of “must fix his direct damage output” ponder on what to bring to the table in terms of group dps.

I hope they’ll make some overall leeching damage improvement: more damage from dark field’s combo, more group utility and damage from blood magic and a sense to the greatsword’s trait.

Support healing without breaking dps rotation, freeing up druids to go more dps (vampiric presence charging their CA like crazy), raid wipe saves when you transfusion downed ppl out of certain death scenario, projectile block that’s not a light field and does decent damage on it’s own (CPC), transferring condies off allies and using them as a weapon (plague signet).

You’re aware that this kind of support is absolutely irrelevant when you plan to optimize a raid party, right? The most hilarious part being " transfering condies off allies and using them as a weapon". You draw at best 1 condition from 1 ally out of 5 in the radius every 3 seconds and yes this is beyond bad.

Even if necromancer’s personnal direct DPS feel lacking, in fact it is balanced atm. The main reason why it feel lacking is that the skills are so slow that the necromancer dps is easy to disrupt even for mobs. More personnal DPS tools would only break spvp temporarily since it would be nerfed asap.

NB.: When you’re talking about conditions you seem a bit to focus on reapers feature. Reaper ‘s traitline is good and all but don’t expect to be able to use it with another elite traitline. The thread her is about Rending shroud a trait that have nothing to do with reaper’s pro and cons. I personnally believe that the suggestion made by the OP is a good thing for the necromancer because it actually give something that is not outstanding to replace something that is useless yet, this is something that would actually help the necromancer to reliably find a party willing to take him in. You can give all the personnal dps that you want to the necromancer, if it’s not outstanding to the point that is above tempest’s DPS on large target, the necromancer won’t be taken even if all those marvellous inate supports abilities that you list are here. If it’s personnal dps boost, we already have 25% + burn damage on target under 50% health. And yes, you don’t take blood magic if you want personnal dps, you use Spite, SR and reaper. Blood magic bring down your dps which is logical, however, the support given in return is not worth it.

@vitali : it’s sad but Anet fear life siphons. They do not want to make an unintending opening for an immortal build relying on siphons. When it come to siphons, they always take into account every possibility that could make this thing OP. ATM, the siphons trait are at the higher value they feel “safe”, since if they buff them a bit more, we will most likely return to the minion master bunker era in spvp and this is not something that they want to see.

For the siphon they only need to make siphons scaling with power and condition. They can also split the formula mechanics for pvp.

For the siphon healing.. it seems an irrilevant value atm.
Even with a high healing stat..

Vitali.5039:

For the siphon they only need to make siphons scaling with power. They can also split the formula mechanics for pvp. .

There you go, fixed that for you.

@dadnir – agree to disagree – ress+teleport is crucial unless you’re running pro group that doesn’t die/wipe ever and just seeks faster dps.

Also i’m not saying to not give necro the party-wide dps buff. What i’m saying is “hold your horses, let’s address necro’s personal dps issues first”.

A raid squad wide buff needs to be carefully balanced and planned out lest we get atrocities like “dps 3 eles or go home” in lfg.

Necro’s own personal dps issues should be fixed without involving all other profession and team composition. AFTER that you’re free to add a unique buff for necro, because the knife gets removed from the throat (“it’s gotta be direct damage boost else necro is shafted!”) and best decision can be made.

ZeftheWicked.3076:

Here I see 3 solutions as well:
a) adjust skill damage coefficients to higher values.
b) adjust skill cast times to lower values
c) introduce additional temporary direct damage % boost that activates with necro making some sort of play (facing enemy frontally, landing a crit, getting hit in shroud, on condi cleanse, ally heal..whatever). I’ll let others ponder on that for now.

I’m generally saying that before we go to town with whole raid group wide balance via a new dps profession specific buff, let’s first fix necro dps problem “inhouse” and then without the burden of “must fix his direct damage output” ponder on what to bring to the table in terms of group dps.

Have to agree with Zeft in this discussion, even though I like the OP’s idea. That being said, I believe some improvements found on others could help Necro out here.

a) Increase the damage of the final auto-attack chain of dagger so it isn’t a DPS loss.
b) Reduce the cast-times, after-casts, and contact points of the dagger auto-chain.
c) Few suggestions here:

• Spiteful Talisman: “Deal +5% damage to foes without boons. Temporarily deal an additional +5% damage when you remove or corrupt boons. Buff duration: 5s.” Then, move the focus CD reduction to Chill of Death so the trait doesn’t do too much.
• Strength of Undeath: “Deal +5% damage when Life Force is above 50%. Deal an additional +5% damage when Life Force is above 50% while in Shroud. Maximum Life Force increased.”
• Soul Eater: Greatsword skills recharge 20% faster. Gain a stacking buff when you siphon or steal life that increases damage by +1% and Gravedigger’s damage by an additional +1% per stack. Buff duration: 8s. Stacks up to 10 times.
  This creates synergy with Blood Magic, access to Dark Fields, and other Life Siphons to link up a traitline that already has Necro’s unique group buff. It also retains the “Soul Eater” thematic aspect and current emphasis on Gravedigger while using Life Siphon as an activation for synergy rather than allocating it to a single move.

Other changes I think that would be nice is the ICD reduced on Chilling Darkness from 3s to 2s so Well of Darkness can chill 3x while Nightfall would still chill 2×. Maybe add in Well of Corruption damage to Well of Darkness and Well of Suffering damage to Well of Power so that they all do damage. Those should help a bit.

Wondrouswall.7169:

ZeftheWicked.3076:

Here I see 3 solutions as well:
a) adjust skill damage coefficients to higher values.
b) adjust skill cast times to lower values
c) introduce additional temporary direct damage % boost that activates with necro making some sort of play (facing enemy frontally, landing a crit, getting hit in shroud, on condi cleanse, ally heal..whatever). I’ll let others ponder on that for now.

I’m generally saying that before we go to town with whole raid group wide balance via a new dps profession specific buff, let’s first fix necro dps problem “inhouse” and then without the burden of “must fix his direct damage output” ponder on what to bring to the table in terms of group dps.

Have to agree with Zeft in this discussion, even though I like the OP’s idea. That being said, I believe some improvements found on others could help Necro out here.

a) Increase the damage of the final auto-attack chain of dagger so it isn’t a DPS loss.
b) Reduce the cast-times, after-casts, and contact points of the dagger auto-chain.
c) Few suggestions here:

• Spiteful Talisman: “Deal +5% damage to foes without boons. Temporarily deal an additional +5% damage when you remove or corrupt boons. Buff duration: 5s.” Then, move the focus CD reduction to Chill of Death so the trait doesn’t do too much.
• Strength of Undeath: “Deal +5% damage when Life Force is above 50%. Deal an additional +5% damage when Life Force is above 50% while in Shroud. Maximum Life Force increased.”
• Soul Eater: Greatsword skills recharge 20% faster. Gain a stacking buff when you siphon or steal life that increases damage by +1% and Gravedigger’s damage by an additional +1% per stack. Buff duration: 8s. Stacks up to 10 times.
  This creates synergy with Blood Magic, access to Dark Fields, and other Life Siphons to link up a traitline that already has Necro’s unique group buff. It also retains the “Soul Eater” thematic aspect and current emphasis on Gravedigger while using Life Siphon as an activation for synergy rather than allocating it to a single move.

Other changes I think that would be nice is the ICD reduced on Chilling Darkness from 3s to 2s so Well of Darkness can chill 3x while Nightfall would still chill 2×. Maybe add in Well of Corruption damage to Well of Darkness and Well of Suffering damage to Well of Power so that they all do damage. Those should help a bit.

Seems good

ZeftheWicked.3076:

- fix core necro’d deathshoud. It’s completely useless, helps with just about nothing, and adds insult to injury seeing how amazingly well reaper shroud fits into different kinds of builds and situations.

Agree! Any thoughts on making it better other than straight DPS buffs?

Plastazote.7914:

Any thoughts on making it better other than straight DPS buffs?

• Life Blast: Changed from projectile to a beam that hits twice. Split the base damage for each hit. Same cast time and 2 hits instead of 3 so it works better with Dhuumfire while not being complete overkill.
• Dark Path: Change it to function like Astral Wisp so it continues to travel towards your selected target while passing through other foes rather than teleporting on the first foe it strikes. Foes it passes through are damaged and chilled (1s). This would also have a large payoff when lining it up to pierce multiple targets with Path of Corruption.
• Doom: Fears (1s) and removes 1 boon from a target above 600 range. Fears (1½s) and removes 2 boons from a target within 600 range. Beefs it up differently from Infusing Terror, with more emphasis on weakening a single foe. This should help deal with Stability and – because of Path of Corruption – removes boons instead of corrupts them so there’s some initial boon control on Death Shroud without having to go underwater or traiting for it.
• Life Transfer and Tainted Shackles: Cooldown reduced from 40s to 30s to match Reaper Shroud cooldowns. Both moves are pretty good, they just need a lower recharge to be less cumbersome.

Think those should have Death Shroud perform better without adding straight DPS buffs.

It seems this thread is going a bit offtopic…
I wasn’t suggesting this change to fix the necro damage (isn’t that easy to do), I suggested the change so that the trait could be used more globally…

anyway…

To fix the core Necro DS they should simply replace Life Blast with Plague Blast, is already in the game and works so much better (it has been suggested many times).

hash.8462:

My idea is simple, change the trait Rending Shroud in order to make it a bit more useful.
Currently the trait is not so bad when you play by yourself, but when you play in a party it becomes almost useless due to the excessive amount of vulnerability that the different professions can inflict (some of them can reach 25 stack just by themselves).

Now… I would like the trait changed to function as the group empowerment traits (Example: Empower Allies):

current Trait:

  Constantly apply vulnerability to nearby foes while in shroud
    3 Vulnerability (10s): 3% Incoming Damage, 3% Incoming Condition Damage
    Number of Targets: 5 
    Interval: 3s 
    Radius: 360

updated Trait:

  Decreases toughness of nearby foes while in shroud
    Decreased Toughness (9s): -150 Toughness
    Number of Targets: 5 
    Interval: 3s 
    Radius: 360

The new version will works exactly as the old one, just the effect will be different.
The new effect will not stack, will just refresh itself.
The effect is not a condition so cannot be removed or converted.

How much -150 toughness do?

- 2000 armor foe (zerk light armor), about 8% extra physical damage;
- 2600 armor foe (Test Golem), about 6% extra physical damage;
- 4000 armor foe, about 4% extra physical damage.

How will this affect the game?

If you do not use this trait there will be no difference from now… in general only power necros have access to it and generally this trait is not very popular.

With the current trait as the only source of vulneraility you are able to inflict and maintain 9+ stacks on nearby foes when in solo but in a party is wasted because foes get 25 stacks of vulnerability in less then 2 seconds…

With this new version of the trait you will get an avereage of 6% extra physical damage in solo, in party you will not lose it and everyone else that do physical damage will also be able to do more damage.

You can see it like to be able to break the limit of 25 stack of vulnerabilty to reach 31 stacks for physical damage.

What do you think?

It would be cool if you could specify in which gamemode you’d like it changed. I,who play alot of pvp,would not like it changed this way.

Here’s an example as to why I would not like to see it changed this way in pvp;

Scenario 1)
Enemy guard runs “Strength in Numbers” and gives 150 toughness to all nearby teammates. If a necro would run this new altered trait then they would just effectively cancel each other out. By instead having it as it is right now then you’d not only cancel out the guardians “Strength in Numbers” trait but also add a bit of damage on top of that through the vuln stacks you’re able to apply effectively.

insaneseagull.7063:

It would be cool if you could specify in which gamemode you’d like it changed. I,who play alot of pvp,would not like it changed this way.

Here’s an example as to why I would not like to see it changed this way in pvp;

Scenario 1)
Enemy guard runs “Strength in Numbers” and gives 150 toughness to all nearby teammates. If a necro would run this new altered trait then they would just effectively cancel each other out. By instead having it as it is right now then you’d not only cancel out the guardians “Strength in Numbers” trait but also add a bit of damage on top of that through the vuln stacks you’re able to apply effectively.

This is true, the change will bring a small nerf in solo and in some pvp situations…
but on the other hand, this effect cannot be removed/converted/transfered so the enemy will not be able to get rid of it, also you need time to archive max strength with the current trait (3 stacks every 3 seconds).

I believe this change would be for the best, without big drawbacks or too many gains.

hash.8462:

insaneseagull.7063:

It would be cool if you could specify in which gamemode you’d like it changed. I,who play alot of pvp,would not like it changed this way.

Here’s an example as to why I would not like to see it changed this way in pvp;

Scenario 1)
Enemy guard runs “Strength in Numbers” and gives 150 toughness to all nearby teammates. If a necro would run this new altered trait then they would just effectively cancel each other out. By instead having it as it is right now then you’d not only cancel out the guardians “Strength in Numbers” trait but also add a bit of damage on top of that through the vuln stacks you’re able to apply effectively.

This is true, the change will bring a small nerf in solo and in some pvp situations…
but on the other hand, this effect cannot be removed/converted/transfered so the enemy will not be able to get rid of it, also you need time to archive max strength with the current trait (3 stacks every 3 seconds).

I believe this change would be for the best, without big drawbacks or too many gains.

Sure,if rending shroud is all you rely on for vuln. It’s not the only way. You can get “massive” stacks of vuln up quite fast tbh

Wondrouswall.7169:

• Soul Eater: Greatsword skills recharge 20% faster. Gain a stacking buff when you siphon or steal life that increases damage by +1% and Gravedigger’s damage by an additional +1% per stack. Buff duration: 8s. Stacks up to 10 times.
  This creates synergy with Blood Magic, access to Dark Fields, and other Life Siphons to link up a traitline that already has Necro’s unique group buff. It also retains the “Soul Eater” thematic aspect and current emphasis on Gravedigger while using Life Siphon as an activation for synergy rather than allocating it to a single move.

I must say I love it. Makes sense creating a real mechanic revolving around a necro’s life siphon.

On the OP point, I think it would power creep other build like tempest or thief. I mean, top dps classes don’t provide any substantial buffs, so if power necro had similar personal dps, they wouldn’t need to provide party buffs. I think DH levels of dps + utility coming from Blood Magic should be enough to be very competitive. So, what about changing that toughness reduction to be reflected into necro’s own skills?

Akeno.4962:

I must say I love it. Makes sense creating a real mechanic revolving around a necro’s life siphon.

On the OP point, I think it would power creep other build like tempest or thief. I mean, top dps classes don’t provide any substantial buffs, so if power necro had similar personal dps, they wouldn’t need to provide party buffs. I think DH levels of dps + utility coming from Blood Magic should be enough to be very competitive. So, what about changing that toughness reduction to be reflected into necro’s own skills?

Well, when ANET introduced Pinpoint Distribution in march I havn’t seen any complaints about the fact that Condi classes had been strengthened…
Anyway, I was just proposing a slight change to the trait, not substituting it with a new one.

Also, I think the worst thing to do is to empower (again) the greatsword, come on, no other weapon in the game has so many effects condensed in it (#4 is stronger than 2 utility skills!); any big change should be useful to all necros, not just to reapers.

There are many changes that can be done to buff self damage, but as I said earlier, this is not the result I’m trying to reach with this suggestion; my intention was only to make this trait useful in any game type.

after reading all of these ideas (and drinkin my late night energy drink ) i have 3 ideas to boost necro pereonal dps and/or improve the utility value too (and yes, 1 of them is connected to op )
1: rending shroud: instead of alpying vuln -> increase the necros direct dmg with 1/2% for every 1% life force u have. it would count for the necro as the target has 50 stack of vuln instead of 25 on full life force bar.
2: dhuum fire: instead of burn aplying -> shroud#1 skill deals bonus dmg equal to X% of ur life force (numerical value). 5% in reaper shroud #1, 10% in death shroud (could crit but necessery)
3: vampiric aura: that kitten dmg and zero to kitten healing -> like thief’s invihorating presence (15% of crit strike dmg to heal) tweaked to 7-10% and to heal not only the necro but 5-10 allies.
toughts about it?

Elbritil.3817:

after reading all of these ideas (and drinkin my late night energy drink ) i have 3 ideas to boost necro pereonal dps and/or improve the utility value too (and yes, 1 of them is connected to op )
1: rending shroud: instead of alpying vuln -> increase the necros direct dmg with 1/2% for every 1% life force u have. it would count for the necro as the target has 50 stack of vuln instead of 25 on full life force bar.
2: dhuum fire: instead of burn aplying -> shroud#1 skill deals bonus dmg equal to X% of ur life force (numerical value). 5% in reaper shroud #1, 10% in death shroud (could crit but necessery)
3: vampiric aura: that kitten dmg and zero to kitten healing -> like thief’s invihorating presence (15% of crit strike dmg to heal) tweaked to 7-10% and to heal not only the necro but 5-10 allies.
toughts about it?

You sure that was an energy drink you were having?

Elbritil.3817:

after reading all of these ideas (and drinkin my late night energy drink ) i have 3 ideas to boost necro pereonal dps and/or improve the utility value too (and yes, 1 of them is connected to op )
1: rending shroud: instead of alpying vuln -> increase the necros direct dmg with 1/2% for every 1% life force u have. it would count for the necro as the target has 50 stack of vuln instead of 25 on full life force bar.
2: dhuum fire: instead of burn aplying -> shroud#1 skill deals bonus dmg equal to X% of ur life force (numerical value). 5% in reaper shroud #1, 10% in death shroud (could crit but necessery)
3: vampiric aura: that kitten dmg and zero to kitten healing -> like thief’s invihorating presence (15% of crit strike dmg to heal) tweaked to 7-10% and to heal not only the necro but 5-10 allies.
toughts about it?

You’re crazy. This is crazy^

hash.8462:

Well, when ANET introduced Pinpoint Distribution in march I havn’t seen any complaints about the fact that Condi classes had been strengthened…
Anyway, I was just proposing a slight change to the trait, not substituting it with a new one.

Also, I think the worst thing to do is to empower (again) the greatsword, come on, no other weapon in the game has so many effects condensed in it (#4 is stronger than 2 utility skills!); any big change should be useful to all necros, not just to reapers.

There are many changes that can be done to buff self damage, but as I said earlier, this is not the result I’m trying to reach with this suggestion; my intention was only to make this trait useful in any game type.

It’s true that the introduction of Pinpoint Distribution powercrept condition dps, but engineers kinda needed it to be desirable for a party, given that it’s the most difficult build to play. And it’s true that I think that class specific debuffs should be introduced to counter the “everyone getting a party buff” feeling.

But I also feel that just powercreeping Spite is not enough, since Reaper (Necro’s supposed power spec) lost it’s identity (chill) to a condi build. Above 50% hp, dagger and greatsword are almost tied in dps just based in autoattacks, and below 50% greatsword wins by spamming gravedigger. It needs more mechanics. The proposed change to Soul Eater would create some mechanical aspect where dagger #2 would be worth it and would synergize with Blood Magic and life siphoning wells, that are quite important to a power Reaper.

So I guess we could have both changes implemented and that would be great, but if I had to choose one, I’d obviously choose anything that implies mechanical depth.

Elbritil.3817:

after reading all of these ideas (and drinkin my late night energy drink ) i have 3 ideas to boost necro pereonal dps and/or improve the utility value too (and yes, 1 of them is connected to op )
1: rending shroud: instead of alpying vuln -> increase the necros direct dmg with 1/2% for every 1% life force u have. it would count for the necro as the target has 50 stack of vuln instead of 25 on full life force bar.
2: dhuum fire: instead of burn aplying -> shroud#1 skill deals bonus dmg equal to X% of ur life force (numerical value). 5% in reaper shroud #1, 10% in death shroud (could crit but necessery)
3: vampiric aura: that kitten dmg and zero to kitten healing -> like thief’s invihorating presence (15% of crit strike dmg to heal) tweaked to 7-10% and to heal not only the necro but 5-10 allies.
toughts about it?

Well…

Elbritil.3817:

3: vampiric aura: that kitten dmg and zero to kitten healing -> like thief’s invihorating presence (15% of crit strike dmg to heal) tweaked to 7-10% and to heal not only the necro but 5-10 allies.
toughts about it?

I think maybe it should also heal off conditions too. And 7% seems a bit low. 10% or more seems balanced.

As I mentioned in a post somewhere,I think that with all these proposed changes that the OP have to include in which game mode they would want to see changes!

Because we have that now. We didn’t but we do now. So let’s not try and generalize all the game modes.

insaneseagull.7063:

As I mentioned in a post somewhere,I think that with all these proposed changes that the OP have to include in which game mode they would want to see changes!

Because we have that now. We didn’t but we do now. So let’s not try and generalize all the game modes.

My idea was to use the change it in all game modes.
I do not expect everyone to agree, in fact in some situations this solution becomes a nerf, but my intention was to change the trait as little as possible.
If the change proves problematic in pvp, you might think to boost the toughness weakening up to 250 for that game mode or something similar (balancing pvp can be difficult).

hash.8462:

insaneseagull.7063:

As I mentioned in a post somewhere,I think that with all these proposed changes that the OP have to include in which game mode they would want to see changes!

Because we have that now. We didn’t but we do now. So let’s not try and generalize all the game modes.

My idea was to use the change it in all game modes.
I do not expect everyone to agree, in fact in some situations this solution becomes a nerf, but my intention was to change the trait as little as possible.
If the change proves problematic in pvp, you might think to boost the toughness weakening up to 250 for that game mode or something similar (balancing pvp can be difficult).

That’s a good sign of balance. Like the Pinpoint distribution change was actually a nerf to personal damage (if you had 500 or more precision on top of the base 1000) but was a massive buff to party damage.