Guild Wars 2

Hi guys, I was wondering how powerful the superior sigil of torment could potentially be with superior runes of tormenting (with stacking torment’s duration) on a high crit chance build, but then I thought, would that be more useful on a necro, or an ele?

Because I can get a high crit chance on my ele, perhaps it would be more useful on him, I don’t know. All I know is that I tried looking for torment builds for a necro or ele and couldn’t find any on youtube :-/ anyone know of any? Would love to see if a torment-specific build would be useful and fun, especially in WvW.

Edit: Actually any profession that could make the most out of torment would be good, not just necro or ele

I’ve already tested it. Sigil of earth is better. The damage is too low to really suggest using, even though torment is over all a “better” condition then bleeding. That cool down is what kills it. If it wasn’t an aoe and had no cool down it would be better.

Geomancy is better for any AoE damaging condition application, Sigil of Earth is better for on-crit.

Torment is good for covering bleeds.

Lily.1935:

I’ve already tested it. Sigil of earth is better. The damage is too low to really suggest using, even though torment is over all a “better” condition then bleeding. That cool down is what kills it. If it wasn’t an aoe and had no cool down it would be better.

They stack. Sigil of torment is the only sigil with its own ICD. So, you can use earth on main hand and torment on off hand.

I wouldn’t build something around torment with runes and sigils.

However, as someone already said, sigil of torment is good because it provides a consistent source of one more condition the enemy has to clear out, and even better since it’s AoE.

TJL

I use torment on offhand. I got it when it was like 3g, and I saw that it spiked to 18g one weekend so I decided to keep it. The main purpose I use it for is covering bleeds, since you will not often get more than one stack with it.

Zzod.5791:

Lily.1935:

I’ve already tested it. Sigil of earth is better. The damage is too low to really suggest using, even though torment is over all a “better” condition then bleeding. That cool down is what kills it. If it wasn’t an aoe and had no cool down it would be better.

They stack. Sigil of torment is the only sigil with its own ICD. So, you can use earth on main hand and torment on off hand.

Do the torment stacks still putt earth on CD or are they 100% independent? because if they truly stack then torment is pretty sick and im going to need to pick it up lol.

I wouldn’t count on it always staying like that.

I’m amazed they have been this way as long as they have.

If they “fix” it I hope they kill the ICD on torment

Zzod.5791:

Lily.1935:

I’ve already tested it. Sigil of earth is better. The damage is too low to really suggest using, even though torment is over all a “better” condition then bleeding. That cool down is what kills it. If it wasn’t an aoe and had no cool down it would be better.

They stack. Sigil of torment is the only sigil with its own ICD. So, you can use earth on main hand and torment on off hand.

no, they don’t stack with each other. All sigils share the same cooldown timer. Trust me on this one, Its screwed me over plenty of times with sigil of energy.

Normally yes. Unless they corrected it recently Torment sigils ignore the shared cool-down rule.

Overkillengine.6084:

Normally yes. Unless they corrected it recently Torment sigils ignore the shared cool-down rule.

see, when I tested it it actually disabled my Barbed Precision when it went on cooldown. Which was not ideal at all. And it disabled my sigil of energy. So I don’t know where people are getting this idea from.

I think that if you’re traited for Target the Weak (2% damage for each condition on a foe) adding a new condition with torment could make this actually more powerful than Sigil of Earth or Geomancy.

Considering there are many options for bleed application as a necro these sigils are contributing nothing toward synergy with Target the Weak and not helping to increase your damage; also In a group situation bleeds are flying around more than ranger arrows so once again these sigils become a waste. At least with Sigil of Torment you’re applying a condition you don’t see applied often (let alone at full stacks like bleed) which is also giving you a 2% boost in your damage efficiency above any of the bleeding type sigils.

For further build synergy with the Curse trait line you could also take Terror so that you’re forcing your enemy to move with fear, damaging them with fear, hitting then with torment, and boosting your damage by 4% (fear, torment).

Uvatha.5476:

I think that if you’re traited for Target the Weak (2% damage for each condition on a foe) adding a new condition with torment could make this actually more powerful than Sigil of Earth or Geomancy.

Considering there are many options for bleed application as a necro these sigils are contributing nothing toward synergy with Target the Weak and not helping to increase your damage; also In a group situation bleeds are flying around more than ranger arrows so once again these sigils become a waste. At least with Sigil of Torment you’re applying a condition you don’t see applied often (let alone at full stacks like bleed) which is also giving you a 2% boost in your damage efficiency above any of the bleeding type sigils.

For further build synergy with the Curse trait line you could also take Terror so that you’re forcing your enemy to move with fear, damaging them with fear, hitting then with torment, and boosting your damage by 4% (fear, torment).

if you are running a hybrid build, maybe. But raw condition, no. I would say it isn’t worth it. Doing the testing, my damage decreased quite significantly.

I have been running Runes/Sigils of Torment on my Rabid set in WvW since the Sigils came out. It was supposed to be a quick test, but it was good enough to let be. The DPS vs one target definitely goes down (of course). However, the DPS vs multiple targets, especially if they’re moving, goes up. It also acts as a cover condition for bleeds and most importantly applies torment in an area allowing for more efficient condition application and area condition proliferation with Epidemic (very easy to Epidemic).

With con food, the difference is 2 stacks of 16 second area torment after 7-8 seconds (with high crit chance), vs. 4-5 stacks of 10 second extra bleeds vs one target over that same time period (this pattern continues). The torment takes longer to build up to 2 stacks, but again applies up to 5 targets, kind of following the same mechanics as the Necro Staff+Scepter/Dagger combo (50% less stacks maintaining, but lots/all area application adding up to more mass DPS).

Combined with the Torment trigger on heal, Tainted Shackles and Epidemic, it becomes really easy to sustain 3-8 stacks of Torment. The noticeable Torment stacks causes players to change they’re constant movement playstyle since those 3-8 stacks start feeling like 6-16 stacks of bleeds.

Lopez.7369:

Torment and Earth do not share a cooldown. That’s pretty much the only reason Torment might be worth using.

Yep. I use earth on main hand and torment on off hand. Energy sigil on staff. Beauty.

I’ve used 2 different “on crit” sigils before on main/off-hand at the same time and they both triggered, but too shabby to make it worth in my experience.

For example, one would trigger alot, the other very rarely. So I’m sure they may work but you may not get Earth as much as you’d want to, or you may not get Torment as fast as you’d want to (as in on CD) which would make it pretty bad imo. I haven’t tested if these two work together for sure, tho.

There isn’t a rule saying you can’t have 2 on crit sigils on at the same time nor is anyone saying they won’t work. The issue is that they both share a cooldown. Let’s say you’re equipping the following sigils in this example:

Superior Sigil of Blood – 5 second cooldown
Superior Sigil of Water – 10 second cooldown

Since both sigils have a 30% chance to proc your first hit and has an equal chance for either to take effect. If the Superior Sigil of Water procs your Superior Sigil of Blood won’t even have the opportunity to proc for the full 10 second cooldown.

People don’t use 2 on crits at a time because the shared cooldowns in addition to the proc percentage means you’re not getting full use of both of the sigils. It’s always better to stack an on crit with an on swap, on kill, or some other type to make sure you’re making use of both of your used slots.

Uvatha.5476:

There isn’t a rule saying you can’t have 2 on crit sigils on at the same time nor is anyone saying they won’t work. The issue is that they both share a cooldown. Let’s say you’re equipping the following sigils in this example:

Superior Sigil of Blood – 5 second cooldown
Superior Sigil of Water – 10 second cooldown

Since both sigils have a 30% chance to proc your first hit and has an equal chance for either to take effect. If the Superior Sigil of Water procs your Superior Sigil of Blood won’t even have the opportunity to proc for the full 10 second cooldown.

People don’t use 2 on crits at a time because the shared cooldowns in addition to the proc percentage means you’re not getting full use of both of the sigils. It’s always better to stack an on crit with an on swap, on kill, or some other type to make sure you’re making use of both of your used slots.

Yes, but Sigil of Torment has a separate cooldown from all other sigils. That is why it is so useful.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Yes, but Sigil of Torment has a separate cooldown from all other sigils. That is why it is so useful.

It is the only reason it is useful for us. When they eventually fix it, and I would be very surprised if they didn’t, it will be terrible.

Bhawb.7408:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Yes, but Sigil of Torment has a separate cooldown from all other sigils. That is why it is so useful.

It is the only reason it is useful for us. When they eventually fix it, and I would be very surprised if they didn’t, it will be terrible.

I hope I’m not the only one, but I hope that they fix it in the other way- Make the rest of the sigils not share a CD. It’s quite counterintuitive that they share a CD at all.

Bhawb.7408:

It is the only reason it is useful for us.

it makes a great cover condition and it’s much better than just another bleed that doesn’t get used because the target is already stacked out anyway.

We already have more than enough cover conditions (including torment which we still have access to) for any kind of PvP (cover conditions don’t matter in PvE). And in PvE the difference between one torment and the bleeds you could get from the other two is only going to matter if your group is constantly maxing out on bleeds, otherwise it is at best half of Geomancy’s damage.

It just isn’t that useful for us on its own.

Bhawb.7408:

only going to matter if your group is constantly maxing out on bleeds

I mostly play solo and I often max out bleeds even without the sigil of earth(not sure why you mention geomancy as it’s not really comparable).

the reason torment makes a superior covering condition is that there’s condition removal that ignores it(ex: Hide in Shadows).

I don’t understand why someone would prefer 19 bleeds to 18 bleeds + torment.

GrandmaFunk.3052:

Bhawb.7408:

only going to matter if your group is constantly maxing out on bleeds

I mostly play solo and I often max out bleeds even without the sigil of earth(not sure why you mention geomancy as it’s not really comparable).

the reason torment makes a superior covering condition is that there’s condition removal that ignores it(ex: Hide in Shadows).

I don’t understand why someone would prefer 19 bleeds to 18 bleeds + torment.

Because it doesn’t work out that way. It ends up being an exchange of lots of condition damage ( if you drop bursting for torment), or an exchange or numerous bleed procs from earth in the time it takes torment to proc, go off cooldown, and re-proc.

As was already mentioned, it is “okay” because it can proc with earth, if you take it OVER earth, you are crazy (on scepter). I like it just fine on staff, because i generally use staff in a situation where I am guaranteed to get the proc, and I wont stay on staff long enough to see much use out of earth.

I still like battle/bursting better (with Dire). It is just better in more situations, but if you build around auto-attack procs (rabid), and I have before, it is pretty beastly.