Guild Wars 2

So I’m a D/D auramancer/cantrip/max healing power using elementalist but I have very low health and get instantly killed by most thieves then when I looked at the possibilities of tanking for a necromancer and I was wondering why there aren’t more necro’s in gw2.

Has anyone made a boonbuild for necromancers yet? If so I’d really wanna take a look at it. Maybe its worth 700 gems :p

Boon? Do we have any boon?

Coming from a D/D auramancer, you won’t be pleased with the survivability of the necro. You’ll probably want to consider a guardian, warrior, or even mesmer first.

I tried guardian but don’t like its mobility and there are so many of them out there. Warior is fun when I feel like going leeroy jenkins with my 80% crit, Mesmer feels way too squishy.

So there are no boonbuilds? I guess I’ll have to do some research then.

Sorry but we really don’t have any boons to offer in a group setting. Our specialty is manipulating conditions. We can convert conditions to boons with well of power, and we can grant protection with Spectral Wall or 3 seconds of protection from wells if traited, but that’s really about it. It’s sad really.

Are the online build calculators out of date or is it wikipedia? Some of the traits aren’t the same anymore are they?

We only get boons from conditions, so you can have a solid boon build but if you’re not fighting a condition build you lose all your boons.

AFAIK best bunker builds belong to Guardians, Eles and Engies.

Necros can’t come close to the Ele’s survivability in the current meta.

Don’t discount mesmer bunkers. 3% reduced damage for each illusion, protection, arcane defender all add up to create some really nice defense. Add in the passive defense of clones decoys, access to stealth, and target dropping and you’ve got a decent bunker.

Swimsasa Stoon.8936:

I tried guardian but don’t like its mobility

Then you’ll despise necro. We have a nice signet for run speed, but lack of mobility is actually in our design statement by the devs, and it shows.

With Guardian, you have JI/GS leap/sword leap/Staff AoE swift/2 shouts that give swift.

Necro has locust signet and spectral walk.

uhm…. you also have the skill on the warhorn, combine it with spectral walk and you get permanent swiftness….
skill 2 in DS is a teleport/grab… wasn’t there also the spectral grab and an immobilize spell… The Necromancer has a ton of tools to use its just really hard to do, gotta practice for a couple weeks.

Swimsasa Stoon.8936:

uhm…. you also have the skill on the warhorn, combine it with spectral walk and you get permanent swiftness….

The warhorn skill also has a snare associated with it that will put you in combat (thus slowing you) if you get too close to neutral mobs. Using Spectral Walk for swiftness means that you can’t count on having a stun breaker available when you need it.

Swimsasa Stoon.8936:

skill 2 in DS is a teleport/grab… wasn’t there also the spectral grab and an immobilize spell… The Necromancer has a ton of tools to use its just really hard to do, gotta practice for a couple weeks.

The number 2 skill in DS is a teleport, but it is so slow that you’ll frequently find yourself on your target by the time the effect happens. The pull skill is a little faster, but I find that it isn’t very reliable. Targets are frequently out of range by the time it the attack lands. The root is the number 3 dagger skill and has a pretty short range, making it difficult to use.

The necromancer’s tool box may look diverse, but after more than a few weeks of practice I find that there are on a few that are worth having on the skill bar.

You can theory craft a class into godhood, but the reality ain’t so. If you want boons and mobility this isn’t the class for you. In fact, as you state in your first post this isn’t the class for most people.
The best and most skilled Necromancers are able to etch out a character capable of competing with Elementalists, Guardians, and Warriors. The rest of us just roll something else, thus “why there aren’t more necro’s in gw2.”

Best u can get for boons id say is doing a DS build which involves you going in then immediately out for the 5sec fury 3sec retal(more with +boon duration stuff) and if possible, idk if ud have enough trait points, getting the prot from wells. suppose you could use bip too if u want to count that.

Papish.5806:

Best u can get for boons id say is doing a DS build which involves you going in then immediately out for the 5sec fury 3sec retal(more with +boon duration stuff) and if possible, idk if ud have enough trait points, getting the prot from wells. suppose you could use bip too if u want to count that.

I read up on your build and I like y’r weapon choice.
with 5 sec cooldown on DS and speccing into boonduration you can get perma retaliation, fury and swiftness. I must say thought that the elementalist and wariors have minor traits that increase their damage based on how many boons they have and the necromancer lacks that. All you can really spec into would be a combo of boonduration, condition duration and get sigils that do conditions on crit. Then get armor that increase crit, condit. dmg and vit/toughness.

The mobility of the necro is most definately tricky and it’ll feel clunky for sure but I think its worth a try.

’course you can also try and do a thief like build with the dagger and go all power heavy with it inflicting weakness which prevents them from dodging away etc….

Its still a work in progress but I’m sure we’ll find a way.

Savoth.5721:

You can theory craft a class into godhood, but the reality ain’t so. If you want boons and mobility this isn’t the class for you. In fact, as you state in your first post this isn’t the class for most people.
The best and most skilled Necromancers are able to etch out a character capable of competing with Elementalists, Guardians, and Warriors. The rest of us just roll something else, thus “why there aren’t more necro’s in gw2.”

yea I’m still theory-crafting and we won’t know if it works till we’ve tried it for real. Also isn’t their a trait that heals you when you come out of DS? Anyone know for how much it heals?

It heals for about 120, the range is similar to mark of blood.
with 5sec cd on DS that’s 24 HP/s (assuming you cancel DS imediately)

nolop.8095:

It heals for about 120, the range is similar to mark of blood.
with 5sec cd on DS that’s 24 HP/s (assuming you cancel DS imediately)

there’s a trait that grants retaliation when you heal does that count for this heal also?

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQUQNBIhZakRravbTdjfPBMp47tjUcsyUPgnd0B;T0AA1CtoyxkjIHbOuck5swYgxBjHGzQA

this is what I’ve come up with so far. Its not perfect so please give pointers

no it does only work with healing skills afaik

I tried a build focused around abusing DS for boons once. It did work but not well enough to compete with other builds, not to mention other professions.

The thing is, DS is vital for your defense and this build relys on canceling it imediately thus leaving you like a turtle without shell.

something else i missed completely and is kinda of obvious. staff #2 if u stand in it as it triggers is easy perma regen with some boon duration or staff mark cd reuction. although id have to say if u could and wanted the regen id get the larger unblockable marks so u dont have to be as close to ur target and could easily get more allies in it aswell. using that in a high pwr tough healing pwr setup i could see it maybe working with a perma retal setup aswell since u would be tanky have perma regen and dish out dmg just by getting hit. testing would be required but there u go

Papish.5806:

something else i missed completely and is kinda of obvious. staff #2 if u stand in it as it triggers is easy perma regen with some boon duration or staff mark cd reuction. although id have to say if u could and wanted the regen id get the larger unblockable marks so u dont have to be as close to ur target and could easily get more allies in it aswell. using that in a high pwr tough healing pwr setup i could see it maybe working with a perma retal setup aswell since u would be tanky have perma regen and dish out dmg just by getting hit. testing would be required but there u go

The problem with that is that Staff scales with conditions and mark of blood is kind of a condition perma-regen, the mark needs to be triggerd by an enemy.

We only have 3 “reliable” ways to stack retaliation: Traited DS for 3 secs, Blast finishers inside Well of Blood and Axe 3.

Necros may have alot of life, but even with permanent regeneration, which would involve close quarters with enemies, we don’t have alot of sustained healing. Whar I mean is that our HP albeit large is in many ways more limited than other classes since we don’t have many( any outside of our 6?) burst healing skills, a fact greatly exaggerated by our lack of damage mitigation outside of DS.

I guess what we’re looking for is a build that does well in long fights and not just a burst damage build.

What we need is:
consistent heals <- depends on how much toughness you have.
average damage output <- enough to eventually wittle down your enemy.

Gotta find a way to make the necromancer more about survivability. I got a necro sylvari and one of its skills heals and gives regen… maybe that’d be an idea?

So I listed all the stuff that can give necromancer boons:

Traits:

Spite:
25th = gain might when hit under 25% health (maybe an idea when you use DS while you’re under 25% health?

V gain 3 sec. of retaliation when entering DS
VI 15s of might when using DS no. 1 skill
VIII 10 sec of 3 might on signet use.

Curses:
15th Fury 5s upon entering DS

Death Magic: (+boon duration)
VI Wells give 3 sec. protection.
VII 5 sec retaliation when you heal (there is a heal that is a well, might be usefull)

Blood magic:
5th Regeneration for 5 sec when health at 90% (30 sec. cooldown)

Soul Reaping:
15th gain spectral armor at 50% aka 6 seconds of protection.
XI gain 3 seconds of stability upon entering DS

Weaponskills:
Staff:
2 – 6 sec regen upon activation
Axe:
3- gain 3 seconds of retaliation for each foe you strike (max 5 foes so 15 sec)
Focus:
4- 3 sec regen to allies (5 bounces)
Warhorn:
5- Swiftness for 10 seconds
Spear:
3- swiftness 6 seconds.

Utility skills that give boons:
Blood is power; 30 second CD, 10 might for 12 seconds.
Spectral armor; 90 second CD, Protection 6 seconds
Spectral walk; 60 second CD, swiftness 30 seconds
Spectral wall; 40 second CD, protection 5 seconds when you or ally walks through it.

Well of power converts conditions to boons:
bleeding-> vigor
blind-> fury
burning-> aegis
chilled-> vigor
confusion-> retaliation
crippled-> swiftness
fear-> stability
immobilized-> swiftness
poison-> regeneration
vulnerability-> protection
weakness-> might
CD 60 seconds, duration 5 seconds.

Why would Well of power be interesting/semi-usefull?
Because of the corruption skills that inflict conditions upon yourself.
Blood is Power->bleed yourself->vigor
Corrossive poison cloud->weaken yourself-> might
Corrupt boon-> poison yourself-> regeneration
Epidemic-> vulnerability yourself-> protection.

There are also still the combo-fields+blast and such but necro’s have too few blasts so…

I’ve tried it out a bit and found that the conditions you get from the corruption skills last for such a short time that the boons you get from them aren’t worth it.

An average built/played d/d ele is one of the rare builds that doesnt get burst down by thiefs on regular basis.

Oh no something is hitting me, allow me to press my gtfowin button 3 times in a row. Couple that with heal pow you metion to have that is just a lolface class atm.

Sounds like an L2P ele issue really.

It doesn’t work.

Necro attrition doesn’t apply to point control (this is all there is). You can run away to avoid death but you can’t keep stability up long enough or clear conditions often enough to keep a point the same color as your armor.

By trying to focus Necro into this role you destroy any ability you might have had to get kills as well. The whole attrition idea doesn’t work when everyone has a self heal on a short cooldown and you are doing no damage,

And if you can’t kill anything, and you can’t change a point that isn’t already empty… you have no value in tPvP as a bunker.

Hey Swimsata, I have a build for you that you might like.

Spite: 10 points, take Spiteful Spirit.
Curses: 20 points, take Weakening Shroud and Spectral Attunement
Death Magic: 10 points, take Shrouded Removal
Soul Reaping: 30 points, take Spectral Mastery, whatever for the major and Near to Death.

Every time you DS switch you get retaliation, fury, remove a condition, and free cast of Enfeebling Blood. You already have permanent fury, with enough boon duration you could get permanent retaliation too. If you slot Spectral Walk and use a Warhorn, you will get permanent swiftness also. If you use a staff you will have permanent regeneration too, but in that case trade Shrouded Removal for Greater Marks since you will be able to remove conditions via Staff 4 anyway.

The reason to take Spectral Attunement and Spectral Mastery is that your utilities are Spectral Wall, Spectral Grasp, and Spectral Walk. Walk will give you 3% life force every time you are hit, so it is great with high toughness builds. I ran a full knight’s set for a while and it works very well at reducing incoming damage so you can gain life force effectively. The protection from Spectral Wall will last 7s with Spectral Attunment and no extra boon duration. Additionally you can walk through the wall twice for 14s total of protection on a 32s cooldown. Spectral Grasp will give you 10% life force when you hit someone with it. Also, Spectral Attunement will give you 5% life force each time you use those utilities. Something I like to do when I am low on life force is use Spectral Grasp on a rabbit, then kill the rabbit for a quick 28% life force. You can also cast it on random mobs as you run by; it doesn’t put you in combat and it chills the mob so they can’t catch up to you.

That should be a good starting point, feel free to experiment with it. You will be able to take tons of damage and have room to invest in more offensive gear than a normal attrition build.

Be warned though, there are some internal cooldowns to spells cast when you switch to DS.

I know Fury works well with the 5 sec cooldown, but Weakening shroud has a 10 or 15 sec cooldown, can’t remember exactly. Don’t know if the other got that cooldown too.

Panhauramix.2784:

Be warned though, there are some internal cooldowns to spells cast when you switch to DS.

I know Fury works well with the 5 sec cooldown, but Weakening shroud has a 10 or 15 sec cooldown, can’t remember exactly. Don’t know if the other got that cooldown too.

I think Weakening Shroud is a 15s cooldown. All of the other DS-triggered traits (including Deathly Invigoration) have worked for me every time I DS-switch, even with Near to Death. So if they have a cooldown it is 5s or less.

As a DD ele thats also switched to necro the lack of mobility is tough to get over. The necro is definately tankier, even as a glass cannon. The main thing to consider is a necro gets his defenses through offense, you can debuff your enemies to total crap which is much better than most buffs in the game.

OTOH one buff that seems easy to keep up is regen, if you keep laying down marks of blood (staff and dodge if traited) its got very good uptime. Its not a great heal in itself but over time it adds up.

Thanks that does look like a good build It does require alot of skill though to get the 14 seconds of protection, another problem is the long cooldowns on the spectral skills.

I’m confused. Why don’t you just make a level 2 Necro and go into sPvP to see if you even like the class?

its because I need practice with the skills first and I might as well do that in pve

I love this class. Clunky as it can be sometimes. Have all 8 professions and this is the one I prefer over them all for pve,groups, wvw and dungeons (yes, necros can contribute in a dungeon)

To elaborate on Necro vs Ele toughness, a properly geared, built and played Ele is far tougher than any Necro (or any other class) but an average player on an Ele is going to have the resilience of tofu (but still hit pretty hard). A Necro on the other hand is the reverse; she is going to be fairly tough as long as you have Consume Conditions and go into a fight with life force, especially against burst, but a poorly played Necro can expect to maintain very little damage while surviving.

The main argument against DS as a utility is that it generally does rubbish damage, which is correct in most situations so the simple solution is to stay in it as little as possible (and avoid builds that want you to stay in it). Bind the key to something more convenient than F1 and press it when kittens are about to get real, then press again. Don’t try to soak everything with it. Think of it as a block with a 10 second cooldown that has no cast time and that you can keep up for as long as you can afford.

My thoughts were that the ele has very low base HP resulting in having to get vitality gear to not get 1-hit KO’d Necromancers already have that HP not only in base HP but also in DS. What I really hope to achieve is a balanced necro that is able to go rogue in wvw with decent mobility, survivability and damage while still being able to support.
I wanna fill all the roles.
Stuff the Necro has and other classes don’t:
DS
Fear
Marks
Siphon health

If you get gear that improves crit chance and get the stuff that siphons health when critical hit you could gain even more health. Add in the perma regen with staff and the possibility of DS healing and spectral skills that recharge DS real fast should be able to have decent sustainability.

Fear isn’t unique to Necro, they do have the weakest fear though!
Health syphon is unimpressive as well, you can’t build around it (although, it does provide small sustain important for a class with extremely minimal movement options).
DS sounds good, but unless you spec for it, life force comes in really slowly.Jumping in and out of DS is not even slightly viable without main dagger or the life force marks trait. Remember life force decays, in reality a full bar will never net anything like a full extra health bar in a 1v1 and it’s balanced by the weakest spike damage in the game..

staff marks spam with fear mark closest to you then spectral grab someone right through a spectral wall and all the marks. Anybody tried that before?

Swimsasa Stoon.8936:

staff marks spam with fear mark closest to you then spectral grab someone right through a spectral wall and all the marks. Anybody tried that before?

Sounds fun, but grasp tends to miss or pull only part of the way. It’s more like a 50% chance to knockdown skill in it’s current state

Swimsasa Stoon.8936:

My thoughts were that the ele has very low base HP resulting in having to get vitality gear to not get 1-hit KO’d Necromancers already have that HP not only in base HP but also in DS. What I really hope to achieve is a balanced necro that is able to go rogue in wvw with decent mobility, survivability and damage while still being able to support.
I wanna fill all the roles.
Stuff the Necro has and other classes don’t:
DS
Fear
Marks
Siphon health

If you get gear that improves crit chance and get the stuff that siphons health when critical hit you could gain even more health. Add in the perma regen with staff and the possibility of DS healing and spectral skills that recharge DS real fast should be able to have decent sustainability.

problem is the way necro is setup you cant do everything….i tried for weeks trying to make a boon based necro, using multiple gear sets.

the best i could get was:

A) a necro that could tank a full berserker ranger infinitely but unable to kill it due to such low damage and was super kittening slow to boot. also could take about 130k damage in short term burst from a zerg. (brick of hp is a good name for this one)

B) a mobile support necro that couldnt kill anything on its own but could rez the kitten out of people

C) a necro that would drop some pretty nasty wells then fall over dead

D)a bunker necro that could maintain 25 stacks of might but had low base damage at start of fight and low mobility.

the CD on skills, traitlines, awkward slot skill combinations, and weapon skills just dont make it viable(you cant get mobility, hp, and decent damage on the same necro). necro by design has few cantrips and long cooldowns but get control, a big hp pull, and good DoT to make up for it . also siphon health is mediocre even with healing gear and having 5 minions out.

you’d be better off with a healing shout war(solo’d the new grenth fist pump), or con bunker guard if you want something similar to a d/d elemental.