Guild Wars 2

Goodday Necromancer community,

Many of you do not know me, so I will make my introduction:
I am Brandon, who currently has 12 characters on his name with various names… Most known are either Brandon The Hammah or Totally Not Yoda… I am no professional PvP-er and only have about 2000 games on my name..
I am an occasional forum whiner with a tendacy of trying to find problems without ever solving them, and am also somewhat of a kittenbag sometimes… though I have good intentions :P

Anyway, I have been struggling these last couple of days getting my head into PvP… I feel as if I am good enough to play, but just not on a comfortable level… I either get stomped, or I stomp people – there is no real mid at me at the moment…

My question is really simple, what can I do to improve my game as a necromancer aside from playing regular matches? I wanna become better, like awesome… I am struggling to become awesome

GoogleBrandon.5073:

I either get stomped, or I stomp people

What other options are there?

GoogleBrandon.5073:

My question is really simple, what can I do to improve my game as a necromancer aside from playing regular matches? I wanna become better, like awesome… I am struggling to become awesome

Imo the best way to improve on any class is dueling. And the best place to do that is the Obsidian Sanctum arena in WvW because there’s much more open space than on any PvP map. Get the strongest players you can find and play against them as often as possible, and after each time chat with them and analyze what was good and what could be improved. This is a lot more constructive than playing tpvp.
Yes, you’ll get experience either way, but trial & error scenarios with constant feedback are just non existent in regular PvP matches.

First thing – is there a pattern on which clas/spec you are losing to? If so, learn that class and its weaknesses. Next, as flow said, keep playing against good players and doing what you can to beat them.

Lastly I always try to think about what happened if I lose a fight, or a match, or have a bad day or something. What could I have done that would have improved the fight for me? I know for a while I was doing very poorly against warriors as a condi necro, and while a good strategy could have been to take travelers runes and foot in the grave and kited off point when needed, I wasn’t doing those things. But I realized it afterwards. Sometimes it helps to criticize yourself the way many people do with others.

Thanks for the feedback so far, I will get into this

flow.6043:

What other options are there?

The middle ground where you actually have a healthy fight between two players of the same skillcap :P

Imo the best way to improve on any class is dueling. And the best place to do that is the Obsidian Sanctum arena in WvW because there’s much more open space than on any PvP map. Get the strongest players you can find and play against them as often as possible, and after each time chat with them and analyze what was good and what could be improved. This is a lot more constructive than playing tpvp.
Yes, you’ll get experience either way, but trial & error scenarios with constant feedback are just non existent in regular PvP matches.

I have not entered WvWvW for an eternity, so how does this work? Are there like communities working on this to set these up?

Roe.3679:

First thing – is there a pattern on which clas/spec you are losing to? If so, learn that class and its weaknesses. Next, as flow said, keep playing against good players and doing what you can to beat them.

Not really a class specific problem, I played almost all of them to some extend and know most of their patterns… It is really an issue of me being at a certain level of play but do not know how to imrpove myself :P

Lastly I always try to think about what happened if I lose a fight, or a match, or have a bad day or something. What could I have done that would have improved the fight for me? I know for a while I was doing very poorly against warriors as a condi necro, and while a good strategy could have been to take travelers runes and foot in the grave and kited off point when needed, I wasn’t doing those things. But I realized it afterwards. Sometimes it helps to criticize yourself the way many people do with others.

Luckily I do criticize myself a lot, but without the replayabillity of a match, you cannot keep track of all your faults… I like the idea of someone having to tell me and go over the things I did wrong :P

GoogleBrandon.5073:

I have not entered WvWvW for an eternity, so how does this work? Are there like communities working on this to set these up?

The Obsidian Sanctum Jumping Puzzle can be accessed directly through the WvW UI, it doesn’t require queuing up for Eternal Battlegrouds anymore.

Once you’re there you go through the long tunnel that starts right below the northern spawnpoint. It leads to a large arena which has since its implementation replaced the area behind the windmills on the borderland maps as the location to have duels and gvgs.

Depending on daytime and the servers you’re up against there will be people sitting on the side waiting for someone like you to challenge them

Obs isn’t the way to practice for pvp. The players and builds are different and you will always get conflicting opinions here but in general I’ve always found the players in pvp dueling servers to be heads and tails above the ones you will find in obs.

NeXeD.3042:

Obs isn’t the way to practice for pvp.

There’s a difference between practicing for pvp and progressing your individual player skill. In pvp matches you mostly fight in teams and try to get points or secondary map objectives. This can teach you coordination with your allies, map rotations and so on, but it doesn’t really let you work on your individual gameplay.

Also, the location doesn’t matter much, if you can find people to sparr with you on a custom server in sPvP then that’s fine too, but like I said the OS arena is just better for practice because it’s bigger and there are always people just waiting to have a fight.

NeXeD.3042:

The players and builds are different

Doesn’t matter.
And to some extent that’s even an advantage. Most WvW builds are a lot stronger than what you can do in sPvP. Stronger builds = stronger opponents = better training.

NeXeD.3042:

I’ve always found the players in pvp dueling servers to be heads and tails above the ones you will find in obs.

Definitely not true.
Also, pvp dueling servers suck! 99% waiting in observer mode, no thanks. You’ll get more practice by killing golems in the heart of the mists.

I’m going to agree to really really disagree here.

Care to elaborate?

Not really, I don’t want to turn this into a drawn out argument. If you’ve played both and are skilled at both it becomes pretty clear what the differences are builds, food, armor, sigils, runes.

As far as I can tell he is not really interested in progressing as a player other than in pvp for now. So telling a player he can get better at spvp/tpvp to change game modes where there are so many different things involving min maxing and whatnot doesn’t strike me as sound advice. He’s not inexperienced by any means so I don’t think wvw is the way I would go about training for tpvp.

Dueling servers work fine as long as people are fighting…. there are multiple spots on the maps to have a 1v1 or even 2v2s if you find some people down for it. Sure occasionally you get some scrubs that get rekted but they are trying to learn can’t fault them for that. I have no problem finding fights in the dueling servers. And sometimes even just watching them will give you a different perspective.

That being said I do both pvp and wvw and occasionally I try running my gvg build in spvp just for training.

okay, aside from dueling there are other things that can be done. yes every1 should be able to duel well incase they need to hold a point or what have you but there are alot of other things that contribute to tpvp.

- team fights, where do you belong? what do you offer to the team? depends on your necro build i suppose, but learn what you provide and how your teammates can play off of that. its all about synergy.

- environment, learn your maps, learn the LOS spots, learn the spots you can atk over/under. position is key, as a necro blink spots are tough but give HUGE advantages in fights, and unless you run worm you’re kind of out of luck, but play around with it on other classes, learn them, they can turn the tides of battle.

- rotation rotation rotation, nuff said. learn where to be and when, communicate with your team, count enemies, figure out your advantages on different points and so on, its a fast game and its about outplaying your opponent. yes some team comps are “cheese” and a pain to get around, but theres always a way, and the better you get at out thinking people, the better your outcome will be.

goodluck holmes!

NeXeD.3042:

As far as I can tell he is not really interested in progressing as a player other than in pvp for now. So telling a player he can get better at spvp/tpvp to change game modes where there are so many different things involving min maxing and whatnot doesn’t strike me as sound advice. He’s not inexperienced by any means so I don’t think wvw is the way I would go about training for tpvp.
…

I think you’re missing the point. The OS just happens to be in WvW.
If you can find enough players in sPvP to do duels with then that’s fine too.
Good for you if you have multiple-slot 1v1 or 2v2 custom servers in NA. In EU all you get is one or two “king of the hill” 1v1 servers which are always maxed out, and where the next player is determined by who can hit the select-team-button the fastest once a player leaves. If you’re unlucky you might not play at all. And since the winner stays it’s clearly an unfavorable environment for those who want to learn.
As to practicing for real pvp matches, all of those servers have gear and skill restrictions, like no tanky amulets, no elites with cd>90sec, no PU mesmers etc.
So if you’re actually lucky enough to play, it’s really not good practice for anything.

Now, Brandon has 2000 games under his belt and apparently he has hit a wall with his necro. What do you suggest he should do? Play another 2000 games? I’m very sure Brandon knows all of what Zzero said above already, but that’s all you can learn by playing that many games. If you want to evolve beyond that individually you need some form of detailed feedback, and imo duels are the best way to get that.

None of those restrictions exist on the duel servers. They exist in weeklies and stuff like that. I’m not missing the point. I think you are. You are telling an experienced player to go play a different game mode with different variables in order to get better at tpvp. They are not the same. The builds are different. The runes are different. The sigils are different. There is food. There is oils, crystals, and stones. If I wanted to get better at basketball I wouldnt start playing kittening slamball.

@brandon I think even you know the flaws in training for tpvp matches in a wvw dueling place. Besides all the other stuff I said there’s no line of sighting it’s a giant open space which never kittening happens in tpvp. You and I both know dueling helps but it certainly isn’t everything sometimes on a necro all you need to be able to do against certain classes is just hold on. I say you continue to do what you’ve been doing. Play some other classes. Change builds see what works against what classes on what builds. Try tweaking small things from fight to fight to really fine tune what you should do against certain team comps.

About the comfort thing I get that sometimes too sometimes I think what happens to me is I see classes on the other team and assume oh they’re probably this then I run over to the kittening guardian and I’m like holy kitten holy kitten holy kitten not a bunker!

First and farmost, thanks for the replies again

I think NeXed is making a valid point for me, I do not have the proper gear for WvWvW and do not play one specific build in PvP – it would be a costly project for me to go in there… The factors are too different from PvP, so I guess I will try the 1v1 servers…

I did 1v1 most people from my guild/group, it is just sad that they are either playing Warrior or Thief :<

NeXeD.3042:

You are telling an experienced player to go play a different game mode with different variables in order to get better at tpvp.

You don’t get it. It’s not a different mode if you’re there to duel. Like I said, the OS just happens to be in WvW.

NeXeD.3042:

They are not the same. The builds are different. The runes are different. The sigils are different. There is food. There is oils, crystals, and stones.

Yes, yes, yes, yes. And all if that doesn’t change the fact that you can improve your skills by fighting with and against them.

NeXeD.3042:

If I wanted to get better at basketball I wouldnt start playing kittening slamball.

I didn’t tell him to hit tower gates in order to improve his pvp skills.

Duels and feedback from players (other than his guildies, maybe), that’s what’s important.

NeXeD.3042:

I say you continue to do what you’ve been doing.

Come on -_-
Hey, I’ve played thousands of games but I can’t seem to get any better – solution: do the same you’ve been doing so far!

@Brandon, if you want you can whisper me in game and we can fight on a pvp server, maybe I’ll bring some friends as well.

It is a different game mode. There are different armor sets, different rune sets, different sigils, food and a whole bunch of other stuff. I didn’t want to repeat myself a thousand times and that’s why I said I disagreed. Fighting people using different if only even slightly different may get you into bad habits and getting used to your opponents not Los ing is crazy especially as a necro it’s all people do against me once they figure out they can’t win.

My slamball vs basketball was right on. They are similiar but slamball is the juiced up version.

If you wanted to be good at ice hockey and you had 100% access to a rink you wouldn’t go play floor hockey now would you?

No one’s rotations are perfect even the best players in the game kitten up. No one’s engagements are perfect. Nobody is perfect. But telling someone who is asking help with tpvp to go wvw duel in my OPINION is not good advice.

Sorry for neglecting this for a bit…

@Flow, I will add you in game, see if I can improve my own game a bit… Just lost thrice in a row without noticing any improvement, so I really, and I mean really need some good practice…