Guild Wars 2

Give Tainted Shackles a secondary activation named Binding Shackles (or Grasping Shackles or whatever you want).

With this second activation, the Torment applied by the initial skill cast is removed from any affected enemies. The foes who had been leashed by Tainted Shackles are then pulled towards the necro.

The damage and immobilize effect that would have resulted from letting Tainted Shackles run its full course is also negated/never applied when activating the secondary effect.

Blocks, dodge rolls, evades, invulnerability, and stability will prevent the pull effect.

I like it

So it’s like the guardian greatsword #5?.

Tim.6450:

So it’s like the guardian greatsword #5?.

Yep, but more necro-ish.

a) Sounds tadish op in and pvp
b) Cool idea to have aoe pull
c) IF they implemented it it would kitten up thieves and warriors in pve since it would probably remove all torment stacks off the npc rather than the ones your applied with tshackles knowing the necro “balance” team… as in the monkey with a cupcake taped to his crotch.

It’s a bad idea. I’m sorry, but this are those things that makes necro hard to balance.

No matter which build or weapon you’re using, you have a 600 range multiple target pull?
No sir, it’s just too much.

Zaganna.6034:

It’s a bad idea. I’m sorry, but this are those things that makes necro hard to balance.

No matter which build or weapon you’re using, you have a 600 range multiple target pull?
No sir, it’s just too much.

Its not like you have a 600 aoe pull on 900 range or a 600 targeting setup aoe pull which stops dodges from making you evade… oh wait…

But true still a no because devs would kitten it up.

Copy the mechanic of Binding blades it should remove only the unique effect and the further torment application would stop along with the detonation and immob.
However get access to a aoe pull with every build is questionable, but we should be a attrition class for kittens sake …

log ins to guardian to outnecro a necro

I think it’s fine as is mainly because tainted shackles is already pretty good which means it will probably have a more noticeable cast time added to it to allow for counter play. It also won’t be as good as binding blades since it has to be used within it’s small activation window.

I imagine it’ll make ds frustrating to fight, so I’d rather see the reliability of dark path upped a few notches.

I think it would be fine as long as there was some counterbalance to it.

I honestly think the DS5 skill has such little counter play it should be changed anyhow. The last pulse (4th pulse if you will) where it does the immobilize should put on all 3 torment stacks, and the torment applied over time should be scrapped. No one could avoid it (aside from getting out of range) so it had little counterplay. The end pulse can be dodged, and should allow the target to avoid all the torment too.

If it worked that way and you could end it early for a pull and no torment/immoblize, it would be perfectly fine. It has a really long cooldown for a pull skill and a really short range at 600.

A long CD, not that long of a range, and is dependent on two separate casts landing while keeping the target within 600 range the entire time, and removes any other affect it had.

It’d be strong, but far from OP.

Rennoko.5731:

I think it would be fine as long as there was some counterbalance to it.

I honestly think the DS5 skill has such little counter play it should be changed anyhow. The last pulse (4th pulse if you will) where it does the immobilize should put on all 3 torment stacks, and the torment applied over time should be scrapped. No one could avoid it (aside from getting out of range) so it had little counterplay. The end pulse can be dodged, and should allow the target to avoid all the torment too.

If it worked that way and you could end it early for a pull and no torment/immoblize, it would be perfectly fine. It has a really long cooldown for a pull skill and a really short range at 600.

It has plenty although I can agree that the torment application added a no counter play portion to it which I wouldn’t mind being added to the 4th pulse. I don’t mind the pull, but most pulls are associated with large casts of 1/2-3/4th a second or horribly telegraphed animations and projectiles which I think would ruin this skills ability to be comboed.

Bhawb.7408:

A long CD, not that long of a range, and is dependent on two separate casts landing while keeping the target within 600 range the entire time, and removes any other affect it had.

It’d be strong, but far from OP.

^ This.

We’re supposed to be the anti-mobility, lock-down, attrition class. Thematically, pulling our enemies to us rather than running to catch up to them fits with the design philosophy and the devs’ claim that we’re the class that is hard to escape from (lol). It’s what we(’re supposed to) do. Making it intrinsic to the class mechanic is wholly appropriate.

As far as counter-play, we have a huge telegraph with this skill. First, just the fact we enter DS is a big heads-up to enemies to be on guard. Secondly, it’s kinda hard to miss the sickly green tendrils of dark necrotic energy streaming from the necro who’s activated Tainted Shackles. If an opponent sees those two tells and fails to take appropriate counter-action, that’s on them; it doesn’t mean the skill is OP.

Though I can sympathize with the concern that the implementation would be screwed up (see Andele’s posts), we shouldn’t shy away from changes based on that premise. Otherwise, that could be applied to any changes to the necro and we’ll never get anywhere.

You could even have the tendrils change color to red 3/4 of a second before the pull so people could react…. I can think of lots of ways it wouldn’t be overpowered.

Of course it would make spectral grasp look kind of… lackluster… by comparison.

Rennoko.5731:

You could even have the tendrils change color to red 3/4 of a second before the pull so people could react…. I can think of lots of ways it wouldn’t be overpowered.

Of course it would make spectral grasp look kind of… lackluster… by comparison.

Which may then make the devs take a closer look at all such lackluster necro skills and traits

Who am I kidding? This is the necro profession we’re talking about. Nevermind. Carry on.

It’s not a matter of it being overpowered, it’s a matter of it screwing up tainted shackles. Do you guys actually feel like tainted shackles needs a change other than the no counter play torment? I see it as a case of if it’s not broken, don’t fix it.

I would personally like a pull to be built into the necromancer, but tainted shackles is decent imo. Only reason I can see this being a thing is because of it’s name.

Monoman.2068:

It’s not a matter of it being overpowered, it’s a matter of it screwing up tainted shackles. Do you guys actually feel like tainted shackles needs a change other than the no counter play torment? I see it as a case of if it’s not broken, don’t fix it.

I would personally like a pull to be built into the necromancer, but tainted shackles is decent imo. Only reason I can see this being a thing is because of it’s name.

I don’t think changing it so you have the option of letting it run its course and immobilize the way it does today, or ending it early for a pull could be considered anything but a positive change. It promotes planning and tactical thinking (lol), on when to either use the pull or not.

Hell ending it early by face rolling the skill would take away the immobilize, some or all of the torment, and the end damage pulse… that seems significantly balanced to me and a fair cost for a strong AOE pull, and punishes people who waste the pull at a bad time.

I’ve suggested something similar but I switched up Dark Path instead.

I suggested Dark Path should be a debuff that ticks down and when it hits 0 it explodes pulling up to 5 targets (maybe reduced to 2-3) around the target with the debuff.

Secondary mechanic would cancel the explosion effect but teleport you directly on top of the player that previously had the debuff.

This way players with debuff either isolate themselves or they risk having their teammates interrupted and pulled.

I had other suggestions regarding spectral walk / grasp which would synch well with my version of dark path.

But it will never happen

Monoman.2068:

It’s not a matter of it being overpowered, it’s a matter of it screwing up tainted shackles. Do you guys actually feel like tainted shackles needs a change other than the no counter play torment? I see it as a case of if it’s not broken, don’t fix it.

I would personally like a pull to be built into the necromancer, but tainted shackles is decent imo. Only reason I can see this being a thing is because of it’s name.

It’s not that I feel Tainted Shackles itself needs a change. I feel that the necro profession as a whole needs a change to bring it into alignment with the stated vision of being an anti-mobility class.

Adding the pull to Tainted Shackles is one method of accomplishing this. Though the name certainly lends itself well to the newly proposed functionality, that’s merely fortuitous and not the prime motivation behind the suggestion.

It also stems from having played around with guardian’s Binding Blades for a bit and realizing that skill is precisely what an anti-mobility class should have. Unfortunately, necros – the anti-mobility class – don’t have it. Well, that’s not 100% correct; we have an underwater version…meh. We need a land-based version. So I went looking for ways to incorporate a similar functionality into the necro profession while remaining balanced.

As others have pointed out, the new functionality opens up more possibilities which also come with costs : benefits that the necro must weigh. Use the pull but lose the Torment and immobility? Let it run its course for some extra damage and a cover condition? Set up an opponent to waste dodges, blocks, etc. trying to avoid a potential pull or a potential ending-pulse immobilize?

I agree Tainted Shackles in its current form is good. I’m not looking to improve Tainted Shackles so much as I’m looking to improve the profession as a whole. Tainted Shackles just happens to lend itself well to this goal in this specific instance. And I’ve made every attempt to keep it balanced so that as one function or effect is utilized, another is sacrificed (also appropriate for the necro theme). You don’t get to have it all; Torment, damage, immobility, and a pull. The necro has to make trade-offs depending on the situation and their assessment of the fight.

“No counterplay” complaints strike me as facetious. The counter play is the same as any other attack, get the heck out of range! Actually, since it has a channel time, one gets more opportunity to reduce the damage than one gets on most other attacks.

Feh.

Guardian GS#5 has the exact same effect and i never seen that someone said it’s op …

This skill would be gated by 3 factor. Life force and 2 CD. And i bet it would be so well telegraphed and slow, only blind wouldn’t see it.

I agree, Dalanor. I see suggestions made in the necro forum for new skills, traits, or effects. Then so many come out of the woodwork to decry them as OP if they were implemented. Yet other professions already have near-identical skills, traits, or effects; usually even better than what is being suggested for the necro.

Makes me wonder if the nay-sayers are playing other professions and don’t want to see necros brought up to par. Because if it is indeed necros who are criticizing the very suggestions that seek to improve the profession, then I don’t know what to say other than that is really sado-masochistic. But then I guess that would be appropriate for necros.

^
Thats why topics like this or Traitworks should be discussed here and deliver it right to developers via the Balance forum (lol …), before trolls overwhelms the constructive feedback with lots of whine.

And as a few times we pointed out, guardian outnecro the necro, only the theme is different. Greatsword itself is so well balanced and has great synergy which isnt neccesary true for us, also (imo) the most stable class in the game right now is guardian with true attrition currently. We should take a look at them how they work.

Or just Anet should step up, turn on the man mode and say “guys, necro is now a burst caster, end of story”.

I kind of like the idea, and it would give us something “supporty”. Some thief chasing your friends? Pull ’em. We are a high health class and should be able to soak up some damage. My suggestion would be, that the pull should come at a high cost, after all, we are a “Bad for me, worse for you” class. Everything we do basically hurts us too. What, and I am just throwing science at the wall here, if this pull, removed the conditions on the target? So that the pull would be a costly investment, since you have to reapply all your conditions? I mean, if you pull five people to you, they will be staff bombed / sceptered to death, but what if the pull would remove their conditions prior to the bombing? I think that would make it a “Better think about this twice” skill, and I think it would fit our class well. And oh yes, please give it a fancy name?

That way it would be like you slap the enemy and right after shout your nuts off with a shotgun. Nope.

edit: On a more serious note. If we have costly, high risk skills with really high reward, im okay with it. Corruptions wanted to be something like that.

If it had a gigantic cost to the necromancer, it could probably keep it’s 1/4th second cast. I’m ok with that.

Who am I kidding? a quarter second pull is whack, but I still like the idea.

Its not immediately a pull. You need to apply the TS first, at 1/4s, and then after they have a huge obvious chain on them, you need to again cast a skill to pull them. Unlike the old Mesmer focus there is a very obvious sign that you could be pulled.