Guild Wars 2

So, Reapers in WvW got a huge buff to their ability to stack bleeds.

This led to Reapers putting up a fight against classes that previously shoved them aside easily and even winning many of those fights.

I noticed 2 groups of player mentality in the aftermath of this change.

• 1) The mentality of adapting and learning, players who don’t complain

• They are skilled, they adapt and they tweak their play-style and build to engage the new Reaper menace. Even if they lose the first engage, they come back with a slightly different build and hunt and fight Reapers. And they win. These players show that when you are willing to learn and change, current Reapers are actually still beatable.

• The only difference is that Reapers are no longer such free kills that they used to be. You need to fight tooth and nail to beat a good one. You need to adapt and think of new ways to engage one.

• 2) The mentality of no change, Reapers should be easy to kill

• These players tend to be less skilled (there are also skilled ones), who have the mentality that Reapers should be easy to kill, as they have been for the past year. When they see a Reaper, they see a walking bag. And they engage as they always used to, spamming their skills and defenses without timing and they want to walk away with a free bag.

• When they lose, they complain and ask for nerfs instead of learning and adapting their play-style and builds. They see a condi Reaper coming, and fight them without changing even one of their utility, like signet of stone (physical defense) or endure pain (again physical defense).

• I don’t know why so much hate against this new Reaper buff when Berserkers, Daredevils, Druids, Chronos have all been able to dish out similarly huge condi burst for a long time. Perhaps because Reapers are supposed to be walking bags?

I would like to thank Anet first for making Reapers competitive in WvW roaming again.
I would like to thank the first group for giving me great fights.
And I’m here to teach the second group of players on how to fight a Reaper.

How to fight a Reaper as a:

• Chrono
  Now, a well-played Chrono has by default a huge amount of burst and survivability. Just rotating through his defenses of evade, invis, blink, distortion, blocks can give him a very high window of ‘invulnerability’ while dishing out his damages (condi or power). Some of those are reset-able for a 2nd round of defense if you know how to and build for it. Just by learning this, you already have the upper hand against a Reaper.

Want to do better? When you see a Reaper, use Moa if you are a condi Chrono. Load and Moa. Don’t Moa and then load. Load and use invulnerable, blocks, evades. Prevent his transfers.

Power Chrono, keep Reaper at range especially when he is in Reaper shroud. Kite him. Burst him from invis or blink burst him when he is just out of Reaper shroud. Time your bursts.

• Berserker
  Now, most berserkers I see still go head-on against a Reaper and think they will win easily. Pop berserker stance, go in and smash all your combos and primal burst on a Reaper = default win a bag. Do that now, and you get busted very quickly against a good Reaper.

Bait a Reaper’s well. Don’t fight in it because it is likely going to be a corrupt boon well that will destroy your resistance and stability. Dodge a Reaper’s shroud 2 dash. Very likely the Reaper has that traited to corrupt boons too. Use your greatsword to get out of range before you use your healing signet for goodness sake. This makes it a lot harder for a Reaper to interrupt your healing (resistance) unless he has a staff 5 or GS 5 ready for that. Use your dodges wisely to bait corrupt boon as you get close to the Reaper.

And perhaps when you see a condi Reaper from far and have time to change a utility, drop endure pain for Signet of Stamina!

• Druid
  Oh boy, the perennial long range killers of the slow immobile Reaper. Guess what, now you need to play better.

Don’t just spam your longbow knockback at the start of the engage thinking you can root the Reaper there from the get go. Reapers have a trait that gives stun-break + stability on shroud enter at 7 seconds cooldown. A fast fingered decent connection Reaper will stunbreak your knockback easily and get close to you with dash.

Use your longbow invis first which makes it a lot harder for a Reaper to see your knockback coming. Or use your pet to do the knockdown + root trait which is also a good alternative if he got away from your knockback.

Trait for condi clear on Astral form which I think is a must and invis + superspeed on Astral form to re-position! Learn how to staff blast invis your pet’s smoke field. Attacking from invis with your longbow knockback is critical to pulling off the root that kills most Reaper!

And perhaps when you see a condi Reaper from far and have time to change a utility, drop signet of stone for signet of Renewal!

• Daredevil
  Now, Daredevils have by and large the easiest time against a condi Reaper. They have the evade sword/pistol build that clears condi on evade, immobilize, daze all packed in one build. They have evade lotus spamming condi builds that wins easily against less skilled or bad connection Reapers. They have the general power D/P build that just needs to learn how to use their headshot to kite and interrupt the Reaper, forcing out their shroud, before bursting when they leave shroud.

I won’t go into teaching a Daredevil how to build or fight because they are the natural predators of condi Reapers, only that they need to be patient, need to know how a spectral wall looks like and not walk or blink into it, and they need to know how to dodge spectral grasp.

• Scrapper
  Sorry, I don’t know much about scrappers, but being a boon reliant class, you don’t stand much chance against a Reaper. At least I’ve not met one who could fight evenly against a condi Reaper. Perhaps a pro Scrapper can share?

• Tempest
  Sorry, but being a boon reliant class, you don’t stand much chance against a Reaper.
  The only 2 builds that gives some trouble to a Reaper is the condi Tempest and the super speed Fresh Air Tempest. For condi Tempest, same as Chrono, load your condis and go invulnerable to prevent transfer, then interrupt the Reaper’s heal. For Fresh Air Tempest, kite kite kite. Use your super speed to make it hard for the Reaper to get close or land his skills accurately.

• Dragonhunter
  Now, dragonhunters need to kite more than ever with their longbow and F2 leap. Use Longbow to knockback the Reaper and F2 leap to re-position when he gets close. Be careful not to use rely on your F3 as a stunbreak + defense though because Reapers can and will engage you with unblockable shout making your F3 redundant. And when they chain lock you while you think you are safe behind your F3 block, you can eat a lot of condition damage without even having a chance to use your elite skill to reset.

Its a personal preference whether you want to drop TOF for COP. TOF that is positioned well can help you kite even better with your longbow and provides more damage. If you are not using longbow though, perhaps COP is better for more survivability and condi clear.

For condi burn Dragonhunters, same as Chrono, load the Reaper with your burns and engage preferably with F3 activated which makes it a lot harder for the Reaper to transfer your burns back to you!

• Revenant
  Sorry, I don’t know much about Revenants. But most I fight don’t have enough condi clear. I did fight one Revenant on Crystal Desert though, who had very good condi clear and could put up a good fight. Perhaps a pro Revenant could share more.

• Reaper
  Please don’t fight among yourselves.

Actually, if you run around with a ‘fixed’ build in WvW, you are doing it wrong. It is what so many opponents think they can do when they fight a reaper and don’t even change one utility when they have time. Like I mentioned in the main post above, people use physical defense utilities against condi Reaper!

I usually have time to change one utility when I roam and see an enemy coming from far.

When I see a: berserker, I change a utility to well of corruption.
Chrono, I change a utility to “Suffer!” shout.
Daredevil, I change a utility to spectral grasp.
Druid, I change a utiility to spectral grasp.
Dragonhunter, I change a utility to “Nothing can save you!” shout.

And so on. You usually have time to change one utility before engaging if you see your enemy from far.
Adapt and learn!

I hope the above helps you fight a Reaper.

Good tips, but it doesn’t change the fact that reapers are overtuned right now in wvw. Reapers, Chronos and zerkers are all in the same boat now as far as high reward and low effort go. They all do need to be tuned down a bit. I’m not saying you’re wrong, on the contrary, I agree with you. But they are overtuned right now and do need some shaving. The risk/reward factor is way off for all 3 of those classes right now as far as small scale fighting goes. Druids are borderline, but i’d say its mostly their pets that need to be changed. Shouldnt be able to build tanky and have a bursty pet.

Reapers need a nerf currently in WvW. That is coming from someone who really enjoys playing reaper.

Yeah…while I like that Reapers are powerful now, they’ve gone too far. I think the problem is more with how conditions work, though. It could also be a Dire thing. Basically, condi is borked.

I already know how to fight a reaper when roaming. You gang up on them 5v1 and hope to god your mates arent foolishly stacking on top of each other, otherwise theres gonna be 5 dead players (and maybe the reaper is one of them).

Regarding fighting reapers on scrapper, all I can say is bring your own condi with lots of condi cleanse and hope that the reaper is bad. If you can kite them down to 50% hp at no life force, condi transfer on cd and still have your stealth gyro (and other cds) up you might be able to win by blowtorching their face, causing them to run and be worn down (its not like any of you can flee each other).

Most decent reapers however will dump 8+ conditions with enough bleeds to drop your hp by 20% a second in the first seconds of a fight, causing you to blow all your cooldowns just to survive. Once you done that they are in melee and you are pretty much kittened because there is no class that can cleanse fast enough keep up with the constant condi barrage.

Regarding the reaper itself… its absolutely ridiculous. Its both zerg and roaming meta now, no one in their right mind will bring power necros to WvW anymore, there is literally only 1 build. Epidemic was strong before but at least required coordinated strikes. Now you just look at an enemy zerg and you are instantly overloaded with conditions.

reaper just need a CD on chill apply bleed trait like 5second CD an reaper fine

Deathly chill reaper is pretty strong atm, but things like D/P daredevil with pulm or longbow druid shred them at least in a 1 vs 1.
One thing to note though, is the builds that beat reaper 1 vs 1 aren’t the ones to bring if you fight them in organised roaming groups with heal support eg dual reaper, dual heal ele and a guard , at that point you have to get dual mallyx revs as your core to fight that.

As for druid, stunbreakers/stability does nothing to immobilize as its a condition, just saying.

Offair.2563:

As for druid, stunbreakers/stability does nothing to immobilize as its a condition, just saying.

I meant for the stunbreak to occur at the point while the knockback is in process. Not when the knockback has ended and you get shot and rooted.
Its possible to enter shroud while you are mid-way flying back and breaking the knockback half way, thus preventing the root that follows when the ranger tries to shoot you after to trigger the root.
I’ve done it many times. It works.

It is similar to how thieves break a guardian’s F1 pull by shadow stepping away immediately or during the animation of the pull, thus negating the pull.

Taobella.6597:

reaper just need a CD on chill apply bleed trait like 5second CD an reaper fine

This. When one toon can stack 27 bleeds on you in a couple seconds, it needs tuning down a bit. Especially when combined with other toons that can throw chill around, bleed on chill just wrecks, then epi and it’s all over.

I’d make it around 8 seconds. One simple change would bring them back in line. No need to slaughter the entire class to fix the issue.

Epidemic needs to be nerfed to a max of 3 stacks of each condi, which would still make it ten times more effective than a staff ele’s meteor shower!

Baldrick.8967:

Taobella.6597:

reaper just need a CD on chill apply bleed trait like 5second CD an reaper fine

This. When one toon can stack 27 bleeds on you in a couple seconds, it needs tuning down a bit. Especially when combined with other toons that can throw chill around, bleed on chill just wrecks, then epi and it’s all over.

I’d make it around 8 seconds. One simple change would bring them back in line. No need to slaughter the entire class to fix the issue.

Epidemic needs to be nerfed to a max of 3 stacks of each condi, which would still make it ten times more effective than a staff ele’s meteor shower!

Suggestions of adding a cd to deathly chill are clearly made by players who have no idea how to properly balance. The better option is to either nerf to 2stacks of bleed or revert it back to chill itself doing damage in WvW only (this might be better to discourage simple reaper stacking like we see now). Adding a cd would gut the trait and make it not worth taking.

Epidemic already took a relatively large nerf already. I doubt it deserves another nerf currently, and your suggestion is laughable.

Baldrick.8967:

Taobella.6597:

reaper just need a CD on chill apply bleed trait like 5second CD an reaper fine

This. When one toon can stack 27 bleeds on you in a couple seconds, it needs tuning down a bit. Especially when combined with other toons that can throw chill around, bleed on chill just wrecks, then epi and it’s all over.

8 seconds ICD? That would be an over the top nerf.

They should revert the stacks to 1 bleed per chill – there was no issue when it was 1 stack before – there no complaints on the forums about how OP the bleeds were.

Reaper should still be able to get a payoff from the 4 second ice whirl finisher if people are stupid enough to stand in it. Adding an 8 second ICD would completely ruin our only solid combo.

Helly.2597:

Baldrick.8967:

Taobella.6597:

reaper just need a CD on chill apply bleed trait like 5second CD an reaper fine

This. When one toon can stack 27 bleeds on you in a couple seconds, it needs tuning down a bit. Especially when combined with other toons that can throw chill around, bleed on chill just wrecks, then epi and it’s all over.

I’d make it around 8 seconds. One simple change would bring them back in line. No need to slaughter the entire class to fix the issue.

Epidemic needs to be nerfed to a max of 3 stacks of each condi, which would still make it ten times more effective than a staff ele’s meteor shower!

Suggestions of adding a cd to deathly chill are clearly made by players who have no idea how to properly balance. The better option is to either nerf to 2stacks of bleed or revert it back to chill itself doing damage in WvW only (this might be better to discourage simple reaper stacking like we see now). Adding a cd would gut the trait and make it not worth taking.

Epidemic already took a relatively large nerf already. I doubt it deserves another nerf currently, and your suggestion is laughable.

This. 100%.

Epidemic is also pretty bad right now. Perma resistance has already made its mark on this skill…. now you have to get very lucky to land a solid epidemic even if you corrupt boon right beforehand.

Why dont you put that in the necro forum?

One good tip is learn to dodge.

^ CD i suggested was not to kill the build it was make it so if they face roll keyboard it not instant win =p

Avigrus.2871:

8 seconds ICD? That would be an over the top nerf.

If that would be an over the top nerf to a trait every necro is forced to use just because its so kittening OP I really wonder how Anet reasoned when removing daze from final salvo that few picked over adaptive armor.

Dawdler.8521:

Avigrus.2871:

8 seconds ICD? That would be an over the top nerf.

If that would be an over the top nerf to a trait every necro is forced to use just because its so kittening OP I really wonder how Anet reasoned when removing daze from final salvo that few picked over adaptive armor.

I mean it was Anet that buffed Deathly Chill to 3 bleed stacks to begin with (pve only – though not bothering to exclude wvw from this buff). The ONLY options they should consider are:
1 – revert to 1 bleed stack in wvw (same as in pvp).
2 – do nothing and let roaming Necros be as cancerous as condi mesmers.
3 – nerf to 2 stacks of bleed in wvw only (the first 3 mode split).

edit: also they didn’t remove daze from Final Salvo, it was taken directly from Gyro Self-Destruct.

Taobella.6597:

^ CD i suggested was not to kill the build it was make it so if they face roll keyboard it not instant win =p

That would have been my suggestion as well. It would be balanced that way. It works pretty much in the same way that blinding ashes works on ele, which blinds something you burn. That has an 8 sec cooldown and all it is is a simple blind. And ele has nowhere near the access to burn that a necro has to chill. Yet an 8 sec cooldown is fine for that and doesnt make it useless, it keeps it from being overpowered like deathly chill is.

Those of you being carried by that trait need to realize this. It will still be good even with an icd, you just wont be able to roll your face across the keyboard anymore and will have to space out your chills intelligently to get the max out of it, but it needs an icd. You shouldnt be able to solo stack that many bleeds in such a short amount of time.

Was there ever a reason given for why deathly chill was changed from chill damage to a bleed stack?
Too powerful in PvP? Other sources of chill negating the trait?
From what I can remember, the first chill reaper was good but not overpowered.

Nikkinella.8254:

Taobella.6597:

^ CD i suggested was not to kill the build it was make it so if they face roll keyboard it not instant win =p

That would have been my suggestion as well. It would be balanced that way. It works pretty much in the same way that blinding ashes works on ele, which blinds something you burn. That has an 8 sec cooldown and all it is is a simple blind. And ele has nowhere near the access to burn that a necro has to chill. Yet an 8 sec cooldown is fine for that and doesnt make it useless, it keeps it from being overpowered like deathly chill is.

Those of you being carried by that trait need to realize this. It will still be good even with an icd, you just wont be able to roll your face across the keyboard anymore and will have to space out your chills intelligently to get the max out of it, but it needs an icd. You shouldnt be able to solo stack that many bleeds in such a short amount of time.

It wouldn’t be balanced and would make it completely useless. Basically just revert a reaper back to a walking lootbag. 2 bleeds no icd would be alright. if you’re getting insta 25+ stacks stop standing in a kitten ice field combo.

Draeyon.4392:

Was there ever a reason given for why deathly chill was changed from chill damage to a bleed stack?
Too powerful in PvP? Other sources of chill negating the trait
From what I can remember, the first chill reaper was good but not overpowered.

You answered your own question with the bold bit.

Its the same reason why burn and poison were changed since you couldnt do damage the same time as someone else and other people could completely inhibit you.

the main problem is, is that no 1 is willing to spend time to learn other class’s. i get this a lot of with thief (as i main the class) its to easy to talk pooh on a thief but the same guys refuse to roll a thief to learn its gimmicks and tricks, they dont understand that a thief ported away just blown 12 inative (shorbow #5 and shadow step (50 seconds cd) most of the time they dare not to come back for a good 40 seconds which gives the other guy plenty of time to recover or what ever he wants to do, i am starting to play scrapper/tempest and power reaper lately to be a better thief. same can be said about condi reaper. i assume that trialblazer gear is expseive as hell but will dire still work ?

Thread title should be

" I play Condi reaper and I think smashing buttons to put 50 bleeds on everything in 360 radius is legit balance. Here I pretend I’m magically good enough at game, because I finnaly got buffed by anet, to tell you to get good"

But it was too long for title.

Nikkinella.8254:

Taobella.6597:

^ CD i suggested was not to kill the build it was make it so if they face roll keyboard it not instant win =p

That would have been my suggestion as well. It would be balanced that way. It works pretty much in the same way that blinding ashes works on ele, which blinds something you burn. That has an 8 sec cooldown and all it is is a simple blind. And ele has nowhere near the access to burn that a necro has to chill. Yet an 8 sec cooldown is fine for that and doesnt make it useless, it keeps it from being overpowered like deathly chill is.

Those of you being carried by that trait need to realize this. It will still be good even with an icd, you just wont be able to roll your face across the keyboard anymore and will have to space out your chills intelligently to get the max out of it, but it needs an icd. You shouldnt be able to solo stack that many bleeds in such a short amount of time.

Internal CD would result in quite the opposite of what you supposedly want to achieve as it would punish thouhtful players who combine their different sources of chill for a spike and those who actually hit their highly telegraphed rs4+5 combo.

Apart from that: berserker, thief, chrono and druid are all counters to reaper because of the high amount of cc and condition removal/resistance they have access to.

I would personally love for them to removed the ele blinding ashes ICD to match deathly chills ICD. At the moment, if im in any other build but my condi build, my only choice is to run like hell, if im in my condi build though, i atleast can try to see if the reaper is completely horrible.

Imo if a class can have an almost guaranteed win by an average player against more than 3 professions, then its broken. Reaper isn’t the worst offender out there at the moment (ie berserker), but definitely does fall on the side of overpowered in all forms of WvW

Baldrick.8967:

Taobella.6597:

reaper just need a CD on chill apply bleed trait like 5second CD an reaper fine

This. When one toon can stack 27 bleeds on you in a couple seconds, it needs tuning down a bit. Especially when combined with other toons that can throw chill around, bleed on chill just wrecks, then epi and it’s all over.

I’d make it around 8 seconds. One simple change would bring them back in line. No need to slaughter the entire class to fix the issue.

Epidemic needs to be nerfed to a max of 3 stacks of each condi, which would still make it ten times more effective than a staff ele’s meteor shower!

If deathly chill needs an ICD it shouldn’t be more than 1-2 seconds at the max. But a better way to balance it would be to just reduce it to 2 stacks of bleed if the trait is actually overperforming.

I don’t think it is though.

I’m just going to chime in here and say that Deathly Chill is currently OP. I’m not going to give examples or explainations because I know how the community here works.

I truly am not sure how to balance it without making it useless but it is in it’s current form, incredibly broken. That said, I would much rather see condition bunker Chrono put in it’s place as it has been a huge offender in the roaming scene for ages. It doesn’t matter their level of skill, they’re just obnoxious and next to immortal if they’re at least half decent. Unlike Reaper where a decent, or even a good one, can only tank for so long before they hit the ground.

To be honest, I’m not complaining either way. Whether it’s fixed or not, there will always be those face roll builds out there. As soon as one thing becomes irrelevant, another takes it’s place. Either take the tools necessary to fight these builds or don’t fight them at all. The best thing about WvW is that you don’t have to fight something if you don’t want to. And especially in the case of Reaper, it’s not like they’re going to catch you if you decide you don’t want any of it.

PS. in case anyone cites my signature, I primarily play vanilla Necro. I do occasionally play Reaper, but only in zergs (because Stability), but I don’t personally enjoy it. And from experience, I can say that the level of faceroll is at least an 8.5/10. Mash shouts -> Shroud 4 -> GG. Extra GG if you’re taking Reaper runes, Geomancy and Hydromancy sigils.

Opinion: Deathly Chill is a little OP in it’s current state. It allows the necro to stack tons of bleeds from attacks that are pretty difficult to avoid in the heat of combat. It’s certainly doable in 1v1 combat, but it’s harder when you’re fighting in a group and you just take 15 stacks of bleed from a few necro shouts.

Anyway..

Fighting Reaper as Rifle Engi:
keep them at range with Overcharged Shot. If you always land OC Shot and Net Shot, you’ll probably win.
Escape with Jump Shot when they go into shroud and pop stability.. Never use Jump Shot to get close. Never go for the close-range Blunderbuss.

Fighting Reaper as Condi Engi
Start with stealth, get in close, surprise them with some condi burst. GTFO as far away as possible as quickly as possible before they Staff 4 or Plague signet.
They’ll use their condi cleanse.
Repeat until they’re dead or they land a transfer.

How to fight Reaper:

1. Run every active and passive Condi Clear your Class has(sorry Revenants)
2. Run Condi Clear on Crit or On Swap(dictated by class)
3. Run – Condi Duration Runes and Food.

4. Profit.

Erzian.5218:

Nikkinella.8254:

Taobella.6597:

^ CD i suggested was not to kill the build it was make it so if they face roll keyboard it not instant win =p

That would have been my suggestion as well. It would be balanced that way. It works pretty much in the same way that blinding ashes works on ele, which blinds something you burn. That has an 8 sec cooldown and all it is is a simple blind. And ele has nowhere near the access to burn that a necro has to chill. Yet an 8 sec cooldown is fine for that and doesnt make it useless, it keeps it from being overpowered like deathly chill is.

Those of you being carried by that trait need to realize this. It will still be good even with an icd, you just wont be able to roll your face across the keyboard anymore and will have to space out your chills intelligently to get the max out of it, but it needs an icd. You shouldnt be able to solo stack that many bleeds in such a short amount of time.

Internal CD would result in quite the opposite of what you supposedly want to achieve as it would punish thouhtful players who combine their different sources of chill for a spike and those who actually hit their highly telegraphed rs4+5 combo.

Apart from that: berserker, thief, chrono and druid are all counters to reaper because of the high amount of cc and condition removal/resistance they have access to.

All the classes you mentioned are equally as broken and need severe nerfs too. So it not like we’re just trying to pick on reaper. But other classes being broken is no excuse for deathly chill to remain broken. People always try to defect topics by going “Oh this is broken on x class here so its ok for this to be broken on my class!” No, ALL the broken stuff needs to be nerfed. All the overpowered crap that HoT brought in needs to be nerfed into the ground so wvw fights can be fun again.

Nikkinella.8254:

Good tips, but it doesn’t change the fact that reapers are overtuned right now in wvw. Reapers, Chronos and zerkers are all in the same boat now as far as high reward and low effort go. They all do need to be tuned down a bit. I’m not saying you’re wrong, on the contrary, I agree with you. But they are overtuned right now and do need some shaving. The risk/reward factor is way off for all 3 of those classes right now as far as small scale fighting goes. Druids are borderline, but i’d say its mostly their pets that need to be changed. Shouldnt be able to build tanky and have a bursty pet.

No offense, but if you can’t avoid bristleback burst with the amount of evasion and blocks and invulns and most importantly the amount of reflects in this game nowadays then you need to adjust how you play in general and understand you are most likely a bad player.

Literally 2 pets, in which case smokescale doesn’t even have burst … Want to know burst?

~1700 toughness warriors w/ + toughness on cc trait dealing 7-8k arc dividers and 400+ hp regen a tick and 90% resistance uptime and an immense amount of gap closers, that’s burst with high tank and high mobility. All of which druid would not come close to even with a high concentration + power build.

I think with druid you’re mistaking boon availability (not even exclusive to druid either) uptime with being “tank”. The 2 are not the same, and is important to note when considering balance.

To even compare bristleback burst, which is on a high delay from the moment of hitting f2 and needs to actually be setup properly to work well to the amount of burst in this game by thieves, chrono marauder, warriors is unbelievably foolish – no matter HOW much tank you have.

Also, your idea of “high tank builds” is such a one dimensional way in thinking in this day and age in Gw2 as well. Evasion uptime , unvulns and blocks have pretty much replaced most “tank builds” and have the ability to push out massive damage in the same tune since HoT and elite specs came out.

I think the only 2 true tank builds would be druid tank build (no dmg output, not even with bristleback , sorry) and the minstrel ele support tank build – both of which do no damage at all.

I do agree overall with berserker , chrono being broken especially

ZhouX.8742:

Nikkinella.8254:

Good tips, but it doesn’t change the fact that reapers are overtuned right now in wvw. Reapers, Chronos and zerkers are all in the same boat now as far as high reward and low effort go. They all do need to be tuned down a bit. I’m not saying you’re wrong, on the contrary, I agree with you. But they are overtuned right now and do need some shaving. The risk/reward factor is way off for all 3 of those classes right now as far as small scale fighting goes. Druids are borderline, but i’d say its mostly their pets that need to be changed. Shouldnt be able to build tanky and have a bursty pet.

No offense, but if you can’t avoid bristleback burst with the amount of evasion and blocks and invulns and most importantly the amount of reflects in this game nowadays then you need to adjust how you play in general and understand you are most likely a bad player.

Literally 2 pets, in which case smokescale doesn’t even have burst … Want to know burst?

~1700 toughness warriors w/ + toughness on cc trait dealing 7-8k arc dividers and 400+ hp regen a tick and 90% resistance uptime and an immense amount of gap closers, that’s burst with high tank and high mobility. All of which druid would not come close to even with a high concentration + power build.

I think with druid you’re mistaking boon availability (not even exclusive to druid either) uptime with being “tank”. The 2 are not the same, and is important to note when considering balance.

To even compare bristleback burst, which is on a high delay from the moment of hitting f2 and needs to actually be setup properly to work well to the amount of burst in this game by thieves, chrono marauder, warriors is unbelievably foolish – no matter HOW much tank you have.

Also, your idea of “high tank builds” is such a one dimensional way in thinking in this day and age in Gw2 as well. Evasion uptime , unvulns and blocks have pretty much replaced most “tank builds” and have the ability to push out massive damage in the same tune since HoT and elite specs came out.

I think the only 2 true tank builds would be druid tank build (no dmg output, not even with bristleback , sorry) and the minstrel ele support tank build – both of which do no damage at all.

I do agree overall with berserker , chrono being broken especially

I never said I couldnt kill druids or avoid their burst. It IS broken though that you can be tanky and still do damage. That’s just bad design whether its power or condi damage on any class. That’s not balanced any way you look at it. If you have tanky stats, you should do no damage. If you’re glass, you should do alot of damage. All I’m saying is pet damage should scale with player gear. If they go glass, glassy pet. if they go tank, tanky pet.

And any druid that can’t land their burst on someone is a terrible druid. I have zero problems ccing someone then getting my burst to land. I can easily 1 shot most thieves eles, and other druids with just my pet alone. With proper timing and cc, you can make the burst land. And when it does land it does a ton of damage, too much damage if you have tanky stats.

Tbh not many people watch the pets.

I play necro/reaper exclusively. I love this class because it is a constant struggle to stay competitive with so many OP meta/rotation builds for other classes. When something as relatively minor as the addition of 2 bleed stacks to chill, (which I believe is still subpar to burn and confusion damage by other classes), causes so much salt it’s a real head shaker. Deathly chill and Bleed do not need nerfed or toned down, if anything chill needs to be a cc as it should be. My advice to fighting reapers follow’s this thread’s, you just need to adjust. When the buff was first made it few knew how to deal with it, now I am running into many who have learned how. Follow OP’s advice and Reapers will be hard put against you, and even if you lose it there is always next time. Have fun and remember it’s just a game.

DaVid Darksoul.4985:

I play necro/reaper exclusively. I love this class because it is a constant struggle to stay competitive with so many OP meta/rotation builds for other classes. When something as relatively minor as the addition of 2 bleed stacks to chill, (which I believe is still subpar to burn and confusion damage by other classes), causes so much salt it’s a real head shaker. Deathly chill and Bleed do not need nerfed or toned down, if anything chill needs to be a cc as it should be. My advice to fighting reapers follow’s this thread’s, you just need to adjust. When the buff was first made it few knew how to deal with it, now I am running into many who have learned how. Follow OP’s advice and Reapers will be hard put against you, and even if you lose it there is always next time. Have fun and remember it’s just a game.

The amount of skills, utilities, and traits a reaper has that inflict Chilled is ridiculous, especially since they’re not niche, and can be stacked into the same condi builds. If all are used in quick succession, plus the normal bleeds from other skills/the same skills, your opponents quickly have 20+ stacks of bleeds. This is on top of the other conditions like poison that are being applied.

So…yeah. Its a little over the top right now and needs to be toned down. 1 bleed stack would be reasonable.

Nikkinella.8254:

ZhouX.8742:

Nikkinella.8254:

Good tips, but it doesn’t change the fact that reapers are overtuned right now in wvw. Reapers, Chronos and zerkers are all in the same boat now as far as high reward and low effort go. They all do need to be tuned down a bit. I’m not saying you’re wrong, on the contrary, I agree with you. But they are overtuned right now and do need some shaving. The risk/reward factor is way off for all 3 of those classes right now as far as small scale fighting goes. Druids are borderline, but i’d say its mostly their pets that need to be changed. Shouldnt be able to build tanky and have a bursty pet.

No offense, but if you can’t avoid bristleback burst with the amount of evasion and blocks and invulns and most importantly the amount of reflects in this game nowadays then you need to adjust how you play in general and understand you are most likely a bad player.

Literally 2 pets, in which case smokescale doesn’t even have burst … Want to know burst?

~1700 toughness warriors w/ + toughness on cc trait dealing 7-8k arc dividers and 400+ hp regen a tick and 90% resistance uptime and an immense amount of gap closers, that’s burst with high tank and high mobility. All of which druid would not come close to even with a high concentration + power build.

I think with druid you’re mistaking boon availability (not even exclusive to druid either) uptime with being “tank”. The 2 are not the same, and is important to note when considering balance.

To even compare bristleback burst, which is on a high delay from the moment of hitting f2 and needs to actually be setup properly to work well to the amount of burst in this game by thieves, chrono marauder, warriors is unbelievably foolish – no matter HOW much tank you have.

Also, your idea of “high tank builds” is such a one dimensional way in thinking in this day and age in Gw2 as well. Evasion uptime , unvulns and blocks have pretty much replaced most “tank builds” and have the ability to push out massive damage in the same tune since HoT and elite specs came out.

I think the only 2 true tank builds would be druid tank build (no dmg output, not even with bristleback , sorry) and the minstrel ele support tank build – both of which do no damage at all.

I do agree overall with berserker , chrono being broken especially

I never said I couldnt kill druids or avoid their burst. It IS broken though that you can be tanky and still do damage. That’s just bad design whether its power or condi damage on any class. That’s not balanced any way you look at it. If you have tanky stats, you should do no damage. If you’re glass, you should do alot of damage. All I’m saying is pet damage should scale with player gear. If they go glass, glassy pet. if they go tank, tanky pet.

And any druid that can’t land their burst on someone is a terrible druid. I have zero problems ccing someone then getting my burst to land. I can easily 1 shot most thieves eles, and other druids with just my pet alone. With proper timing and cc, you can make the burst land. And when it does land it does a ton of damage, too much damage if you have tanky stats.

My thoughts exactly.

If ANet thinks Deathly Chill is overpowered they should just rejigger the skillsplit so that it uses 1bleed/8s as it does in PvP instead of 3bleed/5s as it does in PvE. They think 1b/8s is fair in sPvP so that should be good enough for WvW. Nuking Deathly Chill in a non-split environment nukes the PvE viability that necros have wanted for a while.

Adding a cooldown to Deathly Chill is a horrible idea.

It’s fascinating what people have troubles with.

How to fight reaper,
1. Begin fight.
2. Get full of condi.
3. Cleanse or die.
4. See step 2

For a reaper (DPS or Condi), Pulmonary Impact is your friend. If you can bait out their Chilled to the Bone (as about 90% of reapers have), then you are golden. Always save a dodge in case they try to fake you out with it (start to cast but cancel it on purpose).

Range is also your friend, they only have so many projectile blocks. Also, if you can, save a burst when you bait out their dodges. They have crappy mobility so if they have no dodges, they are almost like a sitting duck.

Reapers are fairly predictable (moreso the condi ones). If you get caught in a chilled to the bone, watch the bleed stacks. Their best damage comes from the 25+ stacks of bleed they can really quickly put on. Use a cleanse when you have at least 10-15 stacks.

Well tactics fighting them are essentially the same, just now you take triple the bleed damage against certain rotations when they land. It still feels like a misstep for Deathly Chill to exist in its current form in WvW especially considering how much ranged AoE condi pressure they already had. But then again, WvW is an absolute disaster anyway so Anet might as well just triple the output of other things. I’d wager Main the Disillusioned will get another stack or two of torment because reasons.

Play this generic bunker regen thief build. Kills reapers and you can simmer a front line zerg np. teadous dodging spam 1 1111 and 555 lol . This is a primary troll build in thief forum. Anyone can use this to troll other profession. Careful vs war with rifle or if its a team fight you are fine. Kills reapers in wvw easily. http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vZEQNAoaWn8lCFmilOBGOBkmiFqiyLE+gSYO77+xvLBCgDA-TlyHAB/oc5flQK/EAA4UA4uaF+rkYPVV8Wfg57P0kSwAAIA3sNbzbG4oH9oH9oHtbezbezbezSBUlQL-w You can swap out regen on dodge and add gain health on Initiative usage. You can face roll class thieves also. Just don’t fight a Dp /LB thief on multi platforms or she/he will escape with lb 5 and come back just to dp you.

There’s nothing wrong with complaining, OP. As long as it’s constructive complaining. Constructive and useful complaints show that something is wrong. Unconstructive complaints are called whining.

Now here’s my constructive complaint about Reaper. Deathly chill is OP. It stacks quickly and is extremely difficult to cleanse when you are being condi bombed every few seconds. I do find it great that Reapers are powerful now, but power should always have a limit. Deathly Chill crossed that limit. Basically everything else about Reaper is fine overall, with a few exceptions of things being weak or too powerful, but that’s another topic and they’re not priorities for fixing.

But the biggest change I’d love to see are damage nerfs across the board, along with a reduction to the quantity of blocks, immunities and evades. That’ll help necro sustain tremendously, while also reducing their own damage output. It kills two birds with one stone.