Guild Wars 2

I played with Reaper’s Protection a lot when doing ToT on my berserker perplexity armor and found it as inconvenient for me and the group as it was for the mob. I wish it was a 0.25s Fear with a 3s stun.

Scattering mobs all over and having to chase after them like a handicapped Necro after being stunned in the opposite direction myself is not fun.

flow.6043:

manveruppd.7601:

it really doesn’t make up for your greater vulnerability against CC, especially in 1v1 situations.

Any 1v1 you can win with RP will be won with any other trait more easily.

manveruppd.7601:

If DS (F1) was actually a stunbreak (or you had a trait that turned it into one), FitG would actually be better than RP, because it could get you out of trouble rather than just prevent you from getting into it.

You make it look like RP has a similar effect to stability. But it doesn’t, you’re still getting stunned. At best it protects you from follow up damage. And by “at best” I mean almost never. So in that sense FitG is a million times better.

I certainly hope OP is taking your bias into consideration with such a subjective post.

Anchoku.8142:

I played with Reaper’s Protection a lot when doing ToT on my berserker perplexity armor and found it as inconvenient for me and the group as it was for the mob. I wish it was a 0.25s Fear with a 3s stun.

Scattering mobs all over and having to chase after them like a handicapped Necro after being stunned in the opposite direction myself is not fun.

OP was asking about pvp tournament play.

You seem to derive bias from phrases like “a million times better”. So perhaps I need to clarify: that was an understatement. I can not emphazise enough how bad Reaper’s Protection is.

flow.6043:

You seem to derive bias from phrases like “a million times better”. So perhaps I need to clarify: that was an understatement. I can not emphazise enough how bad Reaper’s Protection is.

This is disingenuous. You can hate it all you like but it doesn’t make it bad. I can get not liking the trait, but calling it bad in pvp is just false.

Maybe the sarcasm in my follow up post was too subtle, I actually meant to point out the hypocricy in painting me as the biased bad guy here.
By your logic you could argue that Toxic Landing is a good pvp trait: “No, no, it IS good. You just don’t like it, but that doesn’t make it bad!”

Nah… Toxic landing is just a bad trait which no one uses. That’s just taken out of context. Lots of people use Reaper’s Protection (almost every condi Necro I’ve run into), especially in sPvP because believe it or not, it’s actually really strong there. There’s countless times where I was dangerously low on health and a thief ganks me and gets feared off and as a result I live and can even turn the fight around. That doesn’t just go with thieves. In team fights it can also fear multiple opponents, and if you have Master of Terror, that’s 3 seconds of fear, and people will probably run off-point by then, possibly giving you a nice de-cap opportunity. Not to mention it does damage, and can be used to set up nice combos. It also forces enemies to waste a stun break to get out of the fear. So a whole utility skill wasted for one of your traits. When considering all of those – protecting you, CCing one or more people while dealing damage, allowing for point de-caps, forcing people to use a stun break…. I’d say that’s a pretty good deal for just one trait.

Or you could have Greater Marks to cover a large area with your marks and also not have to worry about guardian aegis, people’s blocks, etc. which is nice, but large marks are not going to save you nearly as well as Reaper’s Protection, and they won’t deal nearly as much damage unless you are saving your Reaper’s Mark to interrupt a guardian heal or something (which I’ll admit is a very good use, but you can easily need Reaper’s Mark for something else). You can also interrupt shield blocks, which is also really nice. Both traits have their uses.
So no, Reaper’s Trait is not “a bad trait”. Maybe in PvE… but in PvP – not by a long shot.

MethaneGas.8357:

There’s countless times where…

Anecdotal evidence.

MethaneGas.8357:

Nah… Toxic landing is just a bad trait which no one uses. That’s just taken out of context. Lots of people use Reaper’s Protection

You’re judging a trait by how many people use it. That is not an argument for or against any trait.
The real question is: should this many people use Reaper’s Protection? No, because it’s bad.

flow.6043:

MethaneGas.8357:

There’s countless times where…

Anecdotal evidence.

?
I have been using the trait for a very long time – since I swapped to Terror, which was… at least 8 months ago or so, if not more. And it does save me countless times. Just yesterday when I faced someone in sPvP. If you want, I can send you a link to a stream where I ended up being in where it proved itself useful against a thief?
http://www.twitch.tv/magictoker/b/590221389
at 1:40:30 there is a different Necro who was using it.
at 1:42:52 it helped against the thief. (ignore the bad plays on my part and focus on the trait )
At 1:58:39 it forced him to use a stun break.
And that was just in 2 matches where we didn’t even fight each other that much.
/shrug there’s times where the trait proved itself in some of my WvW vids too.

flow.6043:

MethaneGas.8357:

Nah… Toxic landing is just a bad trait which no one uses. That’s just taken out of context. Lots of people use Reaper’s Protection

You’re judging a trait by how many people use it. That is not an argument for or against any trait.
The real question is: should this many people use Reaper’s Protection? No, because it’s bad.

No, no no. I’m not judging it entirely by how many people use it. I use the trait, and have been probably been using it before most people so I know from experience. And yes, if a lot of people use something, especially in sPvP, it probably means that it’s strong. The reason so many people use it is because they follow the meta, which goes with any class and I hate it but whatever. And second, I think people thought Necro wasn’t too good in sPvP until a Necro came up in one of the top teams. Now I guess people are excited to try out their Necros (as if they couldn’t do it before -_- ) and they try out the build to see what it’s all about.

Roe, the example I gave was from PvE but I still think changing the trait to a very short Fear and long stun is worth considering for PvP. I do not want to have to burn Dark Path because of my own CC. I have enough trouble closing gaps for dagger as it is. Knock-backs are fine for professions with combat mobility skills and more easily mitigated. Having to waste time and gamble DP or SG will actually work is already a pain.

Anchoku.8142:

Roe, the example I gave was from PvE but I still think changing the trait to a very short Fear and long stun is worth considering for PvP. I do not want to have to burn Dark Path because of my own CC. I have enough trouble closing gaps for dagger as it is. Knock-backs are fine for professions with combat mobility skills and more easily mitigated. Having to waste time and gamble DP or SG will actually work is already a pain.

What are you on about!? This trait is garbage for PvE you should not be using it nor should you be putting any points into death magic anyway

@flow – I really thought you were an asset to this community but you are nothing but an kitten with no coherent or sound arguments no one should be wasting their time arguing with you in this thread anymore – methanegas and roe are two players whom I know have plenty of PvP experience and they make well thought out arguments with pros and cons and you reply with stupid kitten like “anecdotal”

MethaneGas.8357:

flow.6043:

MethaneGas.8357:

There’s countless times where…

Anecdotal evidence.

?
I have been using the trait for a very long time – since I swapped to Terror, which was… at least 8 months ago or so, if not more. And it does save me countless times.

Like I said, telling me about an occasion when the trait helped – an anecdote – is anecdotal evidence. If I played long enough with Toxic Landing I will eventually be able to report on the epic tales of how I poisoned people to death by falling on them.
Besides, I never said the trait doesn’t work at all. Obviously it does, so it is bound to force an opponent’s reaction when they’re hit by it. But that doesn’t change that alternative traits outperform it.

Also, the video you posted… um, tbh I was expecting some awesome showdown where the fear turns a team fight and secures the win of the match after which you ride into the sunset to an epic rock song, explosions, rainbows, white doves rising, all that jazz.
But instead magictoker is feared once during an off-point fight while being at almost full hp the entire time. So yeah, in that case the trait was close to being useless even though it actually triggered on someone. xD

Narkodx.1472:

@flow – I really thought you were an asset to this community but you are nothing but an kitten

Dude, now you’ve hurt my feelings. I’m off crying in a corner, bye

flow.6043:

MethaneGas.8357:

flow.6043:

MethaneGas.8357:

There’s countless times where…

Anecdotal evidence.

?
I have been using the trait for a very long time – since I swapped to Terror, which was… at least 8 months ago or so, if not more. And it does save me countless times.

Like I said, telling me about an occasion when the trait helped – an anecdote – is anecdotal evidence. If I played long enough with Toxic Landing I will eventually be able to report on the epic tales of how I poisoned people to death by falling on them.
Besides, I never said the trait doesn’t work at all. Obviously it does, so it is bound to force an opponent’s reaction when they’re hit by it. But that doesn’t change that alternative traits outperform it.

Also, the video you posted… um, tbh I was expecting some awesome showdown where the fear turns a team fight and secures the win of the match after which you ride into the sunset to an epic rock song, explosions, rainbows, white doves rising, all that jazz.
But instead magictoker is feared once during an off-point fight while being at almost full hp the entire time. So yeah, in that case the trait was close to being useless even though it actually triggered on someone. xD

If the trait protected him from toker it’s absolutely worth taking over anything else you could get for the trait point investment. Few traits in the game could do such a thing, and a necro off point to a player like toker is fresh meat. It 100% proves his point that the trait has value.

Maybe watch the video? It didn’t protect him, it was a mild inconvenience to toker.

Also, are you saying toker > all necros? And if he is that strong I’m sure Reaper’s won’t change a thing about the outcome of a duel with him.

Flow…. you honestly don’t know how to argue and frankly, you don’t know what you’re talking about. I am sorry. I don’t think you provided anything constructive.

A mild inconvenience? Sure, I am not the best PvPer in terms of tactics, hell, I just got into it, but it doesn’t matter whether I’m on point or off-point, if the trait saves a player (i.e. me, or a Necro from the first time stamp)…. that’s a player that’s ALIVE because of the trait. Is that so hard to compute? If the Necro dies, it suddenly becomes a 4v5 with a thief on the loose – a VERY bad outcome. If the Necro survives, it’s still a 5v5, and the thief can still stay on you but you had time to recover, which is fine.
-In the first clip, the Necro was ressing an ally. It was likely that they would both go down because of the thief cleave but instead, the thief gets feared all the way down the steps. Both people are alive because of one trait, gg.

In the other fights, negating a thief’s burst with 1 trait – let me emphasize … one trait – shouldn’t even be an argument. He won’t burst you down, he will instead take damage, and like in one of the clips… he used his utility skill (stun break) to break from my passive trait proc. So basically he wasted an utility skill for passive trait proc, a plus for me. Now if the team was more organized and we had TS and all that jazz, the thief would be in a very dangerous spot being feared for such a long time… and possibly without a stun break afterwards.

Also all of those situations happened in two PvP matches. In other words, within 30 mins of the game and already you can start seeing the trait’s usefulness. If you had Greater Marks you would hardly benefit in those 2 matches. You’d likely be dead.

Thanks for being unreasonable,

-Methane

MethaneGas.8357:

Flow…. you honestly don’t know how to argue and frankly, you don’t know what you’re talking about. I am sorry.

A mild inconvenience? Sure, I am not the best PvPer in terms of tactics, hell, I just got into it, but it doesn’t matter whether I’m on point or off-point, if the trait saves a player (i.e. me, or a Necro from the first time stamp)…. that’s a player that’s ALIVE because of the trait. Is that so hard to compute? If the Necro dies, it suddenly becomes a 4v5 with a thief on the loose – a VERY bad outcome. If the Necro survives, it’s still a 5v5, and the thief can still stay on you but you had time to recover, which is fine.
-In the first clip, the Necro was ressing an ally. It was likely that they would both go down because of the thief cleave but instead, the thief gets feared all the way down the steps. Both people are alive because of one trait, gg.

In the other fights, negating a thief’s burst with 1 trait – let me emphasize … one trait – shouldn’t even be an argument. He won’t burst you down, he will instead take damage, and like in one of the clips… he used his utility skill (stun break) to break from my passive trait proc. So basically he wasted an utility skill for passive trait proc, another plus for me. Now if the team was more organized and we had TS and all that jazz, the thief would be in a very dangerous spot being feared for such a long time… and possibly without a stun break.

Also all of those situations happened in two PvP matches. In other words, within 30 mins of the game and already you can start seeing the trait’s usefulness. If you had Greater Marks you would hardly benefit in those 2 matches. You’d likely be dead.

Thanks for being unreasonable,

-Methane

anecdotal LOL

First of all, I’m not saying that any of you are bad players. I’m saying the trait is bad and if you use it you could be better with a different one regardless of your skill level.

Secondly, how am I the unreasonable one here? Because I don’t blindly follow the “meta”? Or because you can’t convince me that RP is as good as you say?
Let me make it clear then: nobody could make a convincing argument that would change my mind on this matter.

MethaneGas.8357:

If you had Greater Marks you would hardly benefit in those 2 matches. You’d likely be dead.

And this is just wrong.

This comes down to your opinion, like I initially said in one of my first comments (but you disagreed).
I tried to break it down with facts but I knew you probably wouldn’t change your mind, which is fine, but I don’t agree with going around telling people something is “bad” with no explanation, without stating that it’s just your opinion, and without stating that there are people out there who really know how to make the most out of the trait.

I personally think that Reaper’s Protection is 100x better than Greater Marks and there’s nothing you can say to change my mind – and I know the benefits of taking both traits because I used both for a very long time. So yes, as I initially said, whether one is better than the other is just opinion and preference.

Narkodx.1472:

Anchoku.8142:

Roe, the example I gave was from PvE but I still think changing the trait to a very short Fear and long stun is worth considering for PvP. I do not want to have to burn Dark Path because of my own CC. I have enough trouble closing gaps for dagger as it is. Knock-backs are fine for professions with combat mobility skills and more easily mitigated. Having to waste time and gamble DP or SG will actually work is already a pain.

What are you on about!? This trait is garbage for PvE you should not be using it nor should you be putting any points into death magic anyway

Five stacks of confusion is not garbage. Even then, I only said I used the trait on a perplexity build, did not like it very much due to its side effects, and suggested an improvement to the trait.

During ToT, I experimented with interrupts for perplexity in 6/4/4/0/0 and 6/6/0/0/2. Feel free to give me suggestions but do not tell me what I can, and cannot, do

Edit: I hope we can all agree RP is sub-par without some damaging proc on the skill. Plain Fear w/o Terror or confusion on RP is annoying for its duration as a gap opener on a profession with only two mobility skills, no leaps, and no whirls. I <3 walls and cliffs for limiting flee distance or forcing a fight reset because the profession has precious little mobility.

MethaneGas.8357:

I tried to break it down with facts but I knew you probably wouldn’t change your mind, which is fine, but I don’t agree with going around telling people something is “bad” with no explanation, without stating that it’s just your opinion, and without stating that there are people out there who really know how to make the most out of the trait.

Actually I’ve argued every single point I’ve made, and btw I wasn’t the only one here who said Greater Marks is better than RP. Other people made good arguments too, there’s not point repeating the same pros and cons list everytime someone new joins the discussion.

And “make the most” out of a trait you have no control over… come on! This is exactly what I was talking about. But whatever…

I presented the case for Reaper’s Protection, which was met with “no it sucks”.
I touched on both traits to compare but still it was “no it sucks”.
So there’s not much you can say about that.

Just because it’s passive doesn’t mean you can’t make use of it. You can VERY easily turn the triggered-fear into an even longer fear chain. You can put yourself in a situation so you are CCed and as a result fear a group of enemies, you can force an enemy to use a stun break so your other fears aren’t broken, it can fear people off of you and you place Spectral Wall and block them off in the distance, etc.
In other words, if you are smart you will be aware which traits you have and will know how to make the most of them.

MethaneGas.8357:

I presented the case for Reaper’s Protection, which was met with “no it sucks”.
I touched on both traits to compare but still it was “no it sucks”.
So there’s not much you can say about that.

Yes there is: that’s an imaginary conversation you’re reciting here.

MethaneGas.8357:

Just because it’s passive doesn’t mean you can’t make use of it. You can VERY easily turn the triggered-fear into an even longer fear chain. You can put yourself in a situation so you are CCed and as a result fear a group of enemies, you can force an enemy to use a stun break so your other fears aren’t broken, it can fear people off of you and you place Spectral Wall and block them off in the distance, etc.
In other words, if you are smart you will be aware which traits you have and will know how to make the most of them.

You know, all those things are actually active playing, and good stuff at that, but non of it needs Reaper’s Protection.
Also, I could make up some pretty cool situations in which Toxic Landing comes in handy. But hoping for best case scenarios doesn’t mean I’d take it over other traits.

So since you insist on me being a little more elaborate:

RP does usually not allow you to follow up with anything, especially not a fear chain, because you’re stunned yourself. Use a stunbreak? Oh sure, but it’s not like your opponents can’t do the same, not to mention (again for the 1 bajillionth time) the trait might not work at all! Stability, condition immunities, being out of range, triggered on downed player, blindness… just to mention a few, and the whole thing goes on cooldown.
All of these fail scenarios are more likely to happen if there are many players involved in your fight. More stuns, more aoe cleansing, more shared stability if there’s a guardian…
The trait is clearly more effective in 1v1s. But do you need it in 1v1s the most? Hell no! It’s one of the fights that actually makes necros a good asset for their team, they are kings of dueling. So you either win that 1v1 (hopefully) or you force a 2v1 and let your allies outnumber their opponents on the other points. Win/win, and all of it is possible without RP, regardless of who your opponent is.

Let’s look at reasonable alternatives:

1. Greater Marks (imo the only reason for a non-MM to have 4 pts in Death Magic).
Higher range, more area control, easier to land on moving targets, more targets hit if they’re spread out, more regen to allies if they’re spread out, bigger poison field, bigger blast finish area, UNBLOCKABLE marks. I can’t stress enough how valuable the last one is.
And most importantly: all of that is available to you everytime you cast a mark! Not just once every minute (or most likely more).
And because of all that, claiming that Greater Marks does less damage than RP is just false.

2. Someone mentioned Foot in the Grave.
3 seconds of stability base duration, a bigger life force pool by going 6 into Soul Reaping and a minor trait for an extra 5% dmg over 50% lf which is clearly better than an extra 2% lf for nearby deaths. This trait means you get a safe stomp on a 10 sec cd. Oh and I almost forgot, unlike RP stability actually is a protection against CC!

3. Dhuumfire:
6 points in Spite had been meta for almost a year. Not just for the extra burning, you also get a ton of condition duration and Chill of Death. This is still extremely strong, both from an offensive and defensive point of view.
Apparently people are too lazy to use a Life Blast to trigger it these days, a longer duration burning than before mind you. And both actually makes the trait stronger because now you can time your burst according to your skill rotation instead of having it trigger at random.
And no, picking Dhuumfire doesn’t make you glassy, not even if you have 6 in Curses as well. You still get to wear a carrion or rabid amulet, you still have a huge duration extension on defensive conditions. There’s almost no downside here, except for the usual culprits like zerker stance.

I hope this covers the basics of the most commonly used alternatives. But just fyi, all of this has been said before, most of it in this thread and a million times before on others.

flow.6043:

MethaneGas.8357:

I presented the case for Reaper’s Protection, which was met with “no it sucks”.
I touched on both traits to compare but still it was “no it sucks”.
So there’s not much you can say about that.

Yes there is: that’s an imaginary conversation you’re reciting here.

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/oka.gif

You need but to scroll up and see the imaginary conversation. Not sure who you are trying to fool here. You are trying really hard to appear intelligent or correct but I hope you know it’s okay to be wrong.

flow.6043:

You know, all those things are actually active playing, and good stuff at that, but non of it needs Reaper’s Protection.
Also, I could make up some pretty cool situations in which Toxic Landing comes in handy. But hoping for best case scenarios doesn’t mean I’d take it over other traits.

So since you insist on me being a little more elaborate:

First, you just admitted you weren’t elaborate in our previous “imaginary conversation”.
Second, feel free to use Toxic Landing if you want… have fun with it and tell me how it goes – you seem to love that trait.

flow.6043:

RP does usually not allow you to follow up with anything, especially not a fear chain, because you’re stunned yourself.

The fear is 2-3 seconds. There aren’t many CC moves out there that people use that are a whole 3 seconds, for example. Even Earthshaker with full adrenaline is 2 seconds. Sleight of Hand is a 1 second daze whereas your fear is 2-3 seconds (Not to mention you can couple it with Runes of Nightmare). So in other words, in many cases your fear will be longer or just as long as another person’s CC. You can EASILY chain your fears with that, as I pointed out earlier. I don’t say random things for the sake of argument. Second, DS is instant, and you have Doom which is instant. So even if you are stunned for the duration of Reaper’s Protection (or longer), you can use Doom effortlessly while you took no damage from the attacker. Your fear chain is now longer than any other CC out there, which you can also couple with Reaper’s Mark if you wish, or Nightmare Runes if you so desire

Stability, condition immunities, being out of range, triggered on downed player, blindness… just to mention a few, and the whole thing goes on cooldown.

That’s true, there’s counters to that, which is fine. Otherwise it would be OP. Blinds work on any hard hitting skill – Kill Shot, Earth Shaker, etc. It’s only natural. RP is like another tool in your toolbox, basically a really powerful skill on a 60-sec cooldown. Stability is a counter too, but most condi Necros also take Corrupt Boon, which is another fear is it corrupts stability. Most classes in 1v1s don’t have a huge access to stability either way, and one corrupt boon works nicely, especially if combined with Path of Corruption. Range can be an issue as well. Putting your fear on a 60-sec cooldown because of ranged CC is annoying but that’s part of the game, really. Greater Marks would have no benefit here either. Lastly, one minute cooldown is not a huge deal in a prolonged fight fight.

flow.6043:

All of these fail scenarios are more likely to happen if there are many players involved in your fight. More stuns, more aoe cleansing, more shared stability if there’s a guardian…

True, team fights with shout guardians can be a pain but as a condi Necro who’s basically all range, you shouldn’t allow yourself to be melee trained. It makes little difference whether you had Greater Marks or Reaper’s Protection, none of your fears would work and Greater Marks would hardly help you if you are being melee trained. Greater Marks’ ability to interrupt blocks and what not ALSO falls apart when enemies have stability. And if the enemy team does NOT have AoE stability, an AoE fear from RP could wreck them and save you. It also gives your allies a breather too. Not only that, but it also puts enemies off-point, allowing you to decap or cap. If you follow up with Reaper’s Mark it’s even better. And if they are forced to use a stun break, good for you – they wasted a utility and you used up your trait.

The trait is clearly more effective in 1v1s. But do you need it in 1v1s the most? Hell no! It’s one of the fights that actually makes necros a good asset for their team, they are kings of dueling. So you either win that 1v1 (hopefully) or you force a 2v1 and let your allies outnumber their opponents on the other points. Win/win, and all of it is possible without RP, regardless of who your opponent is.

And that is again your preference. What will allow you to kill someone 1v1 better, a 3 second fear (damage over time) where you are taking 0 damage, and you can somewhat freely cast your other spells, or simply having large marks? Fear, of course. From what I gathered in sPvP, thieves are notorious roamers and de-capers. If you run into one with Reaper’s Protection, there is just no arguing that RP is stronger in a 1v1 than Greater Marks. I have many thief friends who cringe when a Necro has RP. Sure, a large mark is nice but it doesn’t come close. Warriors also have a very hard time, especially if you dodge their CC and corrupt their stability. Then they’re at complete mercy of your fears. Berserk stance comes into play, yes, but it’s not a huge deal if you know how to kite and can use Wurm or Spectral Walk. Greater Marks would become useful if you fought people with blocks like shield warriors or certain engis, and guardians (whose heal you can interrupt, which is very nice), which is the benefit of Greater Marks. But you might not even have Reaper’s Mark ready to interrupt when they are blocking (are you gonna wait for their block just so you can interrupt it? You may have to use it to defend yourself). A 2-3 second fear from RP is much more deadly in 1v1s than Greater Marks.

flow.6043:

1. Greater Marks (imo the only reason for a non-MM to have 4 pts in Death Magic).
Higher range, more area control, easier to land on moving targets, more targets hit if they’re spread out, more regen to allies if they’re spread out, bigger poison field, bigger blast finish area, UNBLOCKABLE marks. I can’t stress enough how valuable the last one is.
And most importantly: all of that is available to you everytime you cast a mark! Not just once every minute (or most likely more).
And because of all that, claiming that Greater Marks does less damage than RP is just false.

I went over some of those things in our “imaginary conversation” earlier. Those are true, and that’s the pros of taking Greater Marks. The biggest one of those is the unblockable part. All the other ones seem better in theory than in practice.

2. Someone mentioned Foot in the Grave.
3 seconds of stability base duration, a bigger life force pool by going 6 into Soul Reaping and a minor trait for an extra 5% dmg over 50% lf which is clearly better than an extra 2% lf for nearby deaths. This trait means you get a safe stomp on a 10 sec cd. Oh and I almost forgot, unlike RP stability actually is a protection against CC!

Extra 5% damage is not a huge deal on a condi Necro but is a nice bonus. The death magic trait is actually 20% more life force with nearby deaths, which is quite nice.
The stability gained from Foot in the Grave is very nice to avoid being CC trained, works each time and allows you to stomp, yes. But it doesn’t stop the damage inflow. You will still eat the damage that will follow after the failed CC, which will take chunks off your life force. It can also be stripped by thieves, mesmers and what not, and it will NOT protect you against a thief’s burst. RP will push people off of you (dealing damage) while you are taking 0 damage. With Foot in the grave, you are also force to enter DS if you are going to be struck by CC.

flow.6043:

3. Dhuumfire:
6 points in Spite had been meta for almost a year. Not just for the extra burning, you also get a ton of condition duration and Chill of Death. This is still extremely strong, both from an offensive and defensive point of view.
Apparently people are too lazy to use a Life Blast to trigger it these days, a longer duration burning than before mind you. And both actually makes the trait stronger because now you can time your burst according to your skill rotation instead of having it trigger at random.
And no, picking Dhuumfire doesn’t make you glassy, not even if you have 6 in Curses as well. You still get to wear a carrion or rabid amulet, you still have a huge duration extension on defensive conditions. There’s almost no downside here, except for the usual culprits like zerker stance.

I am pretty sure Spite has been meta for the burning. As soon as Dhuumfire became a thing, everyone flocked to it because it was OP.
You are more squishy if you go 6 into Spite and 6 into Curses, but it depends how you build yourself (stats/traits). You have a lot more damage but you have
a) Lower life force pool (if you go 2 points Death for staff cooldowns)
b) Lower toughness by 200 (and additional 170 if in DS). So a potential of 370 extra toughness (if you go 2 points in Soul Reaping)
c) Possibly shorter fears(no Master of Terror – less damage from fears and less damage mitigation from it) and longer DS skill cooldowns (if you go 2 points in Death)
d) No Last Gasp – lower life force generation / tanking / protection / possible stun break
e) And if you’re like me, 6 spite 6 curses means losing out on Vital Persistence and Soul Marks, which believe it or not, makes you quite tanky. In theory, you could still grab Vital Persistence though, but then you’d lose staff cooldowns and toughness up to 270 toughness.
f) The damage mitigation from RP and for those that take Nightmare Runs can be quite high. Not to mention they deal damage themselves from the fear.

But I agree that Spite is still viable though.

I hope this covers the basics of the most commonly used alternatives. But just fyi, all of this has been said before, most of it in this thread and a million times before on others.

Yup even I covered some of them.
Beats saying “that’s bad” and calling it a day though.

MethaneGas.8357:

You need but to scroll up and see the imaginary conversation. Not sure who you are trying to fool here. You are trying really hard to appear intelligent or correct but I hope you know it’s okay to be wrong.

Dial back the arrogance. I’m not sure if you really believe what you write or you’re deliberately trying to make me look like a fool to deminish my credibility.
Just read the thread again if you must.

MethaneGas.8357:

flow.6043:

I hope this covers the basics of the most commonly used alternatives. But just fyi, all of this has been said before, most of it in this thread and a million times before on others.

Yup even I covered some of them.
Beats saying “that’s bad” and calling it a day though.

You still don’t get it. I didn’t copy paste walls of text everytime because I assumed that people had actually read all the posts before that. But apparently you didn’t.

MethaneGas.8357:

What will allow you to kill someone 1v1 better, a 3 second fear (damage over time) where you are taking 0 damage, and you can somewhat freely cast your other spells, or simply having large marks? Fear, of course.

Greater Marks of course.
Why? Because in my imaginary fight I’m actually up against someone who knows how to figth necros, has blocks, decent cleansing or condition immunities, stability…. take your pick.
And I’m just quickly adressing your thief example, if I may: first of all, thieves are not hard to fight. Secondly, you’re assuming that they have one burst. Just one, and it starts at the beginning of a fight with a stun. This is of course false, and actually triggering RP at the beginning of an encounter with them is the worst that could happen.
So let me make it clear, Greater Marks is better than RP against thieves. The extra surface area is almost 80% more, that is very valuable against stealthed opponents because you’re more likely to hit them when you’re trying to, and you get more area denial when you’re precasting marks. I know that doesn’t sound like much to you, but it’s incredibly valuable, not to mention that it works all the time and not just once every hour.

MethaneGas.8357:

Those are true, and that’s the pros of taking Greater Marks. The biggest one of those is the unblockable part. All the other ones seem better in theory than in practice.

Wrong. For some reason you seem to be under the impression that the only purpose of Greater Marks is to use Reaper’s Mark on someone who’s using a block skill.
I won’t post every quote of you mentioning Greater Marks at this point, but you are so deluded about that trait’s contribution to every fight you have, it’s mind blowing to me.

Now, I could make up situations where Greater Marks heavily outweigh smaller marks in effectivness, like you did in your posts this entire time, but that would be anecdotal evidence. It doesn’t prove anything and it doesn’t contribute anything to the conversation.

MethaneGas.8357:

flow.6043:

an extra 2% lf for nearby deaths.

The death magic trait is actually 20% more life force with nearby deaths, which is quite nice.

20% more than 10% = 12%.
Don’t tell me that up to now you actually believed this trait gives you 30% life force?

MethaneGas.8357:

I am pretty sure Spite has been meta for the burning. As soon as Dhuumfire became a thing, everyone flocked to it because it was OP.

Yes, but burning alone was not the only thing making the build strong. Like I said, 6 in Spite with Chill of Death is/was a huge contributer. And believe it or not, Dhuumfire users today are actually stronger than they used to be because burning is longer and you have more control over it. Of course it would take more skill to make use of it and that alone seems to be enough to no longer hold its meta status.
But again, you’re making me repeat myself.

MethaneGas.8357:

You are more squishy if you go 6 into Spite and 6 into Curses, but it depends how you build yourself (stats/traits). You have a lot more damage but you have
a)
b)
c)
d)
e)
f) The damage mitigation from RP
…

Like I said, the duration extension for all defensive conditions makes up for not having RP.
As for the rest: If you use Dhuumfire you also have at least 4 in Curses (look at that, we’re actually back on the thread’s topic), so the choice you’ll have to make is between Path of Corruption, Staff Mastery and Master of Terror. And every possible variation is stronger and has more defense than a build with RP.

To be fair, I think it is almost common knowledge that most Necromancers run that trait, and most classes counter it cleverly; early procs with Headshot, Thief, is a good example…

The trait is nice, but it is not worth the praise it gets, and I think this is where Flow is getting to… It can maybe give you a small upper hand in a first engagement, but you are still stunned in the end…

And sure, you can turn passive play somewhat in active play, but imagine if it was still on cooldown for like ~10 seconds… Your whole plan to disrupt the enemy by getting CC’d in the middle of a fight falls apart…

I guess it is all preferences, but I like some, have found no merrit at running the trait at all… It is just annoying to me, and to the enemy… Running FitG have saved me more than enough times to justify its use for me, but this is all personal preference in the end, because I know that many would not use it on a Condition spec…

This being said, Dhuumfire (imho) has no place for RP… You likely won’t need it since Dhuumfire does not force you in melee unlike Path of Corruption, which means you can “safely” cast from range…

Returning to the topic indeed; running Dhuumfire again has… annoyed me…
The pure frustration when somebody bodyblocks your target, or when your projectile get’s the classic “Obsctructed bug” on smooth terrain…
Running Chill of Death again made me giggle out loud though since it really catches people off guard good… I only need to work on my skill rotations a bit better I think, and probably decide on what exact build I want to run…

Also dont forget the necro has veeeerrrrrrrrrrrrrrryyyyyyyyyyyyyy long casting times. So when you get out of cc and the enemy is still feared by RP, you could maximum do 1-2 auto attacks (2 bleeds) or cast 1 mark (also depends how long cc on you was or Hoelbrak runes :p), which isnt realy much (if the fear actualy happen). Plus the necro is strongest in closer range, but fear is pushing ppl away from that.
And i dont believe fear chain is a thing in higher rated fights since you mostly waste your cc on that chain but if it fails to kill the target (which mostly do) you are left with no cc to interupt oponent heals or special stuff or to do a finishing blow. RP usualy trigers more at begining of fight and if you want to follow up with fear chain you will just waste your fears. Only time fear chain would be viable is if fight last long and your fears come off cooldown faster than oponents stubreak/immunity/condi cleanse (but those usualy go off cd faster or aproximately sameish time), or if you fight bad pplz with bad builds, or you join outnumbered fight where enemy already wasted their skills …. but in this case the RP would do abolutely nothing.

flow.6043:

manveruppd.7601:

it really doesn’t make up for your greater vulnerability against CC, especially in 1v1 situations.

Any 1v1 you can win with RP will be won with any other trait more easily.

Maybe more quickly, more efficiently, but come on, more EASILY than a completely passive fear that would proc even if you’re afk? :p

manveruppd.7601:

If DS (F1) was actually a stunbreak (or you had a trait that turned it into one), FitG would actually be better than RP, because it could get you out of trouble rather than just prevent you from getting into it.

You make it look like RP has a similar effect to stability. But it doesn’t, you’re still getting stunned. At best it protects you from follow up damage. And by “at best” I mean almost never. So in that sense FitG is a million times better.

I agree that, in theory, FITG should be better, it can give you up to 50% stability uptime if you also get Close to death. The problem, like I said, is that you can’t always see the CC coming, especially in a team fight where a shadowstepping thief or a mesmer can switch their focus to you from all the way across the point without telegraphing it in advance. So jumping into DS does nothing except soak up the follow-up damage, which, as you said, RP completely negates because it also CCs the opponent (plus does a little damage as a bonus). It’s almost as good as having an extra stunbreak, and, with our stunbreaks having such long cooldowns, that’s a big deal. Plus it’s an aoe fear, meaning it can save you even if you get focussed by more than one enemy.

I honestly don’t like that it’s SUCH a good trait. I hate passive procs from a design perspective (don’t mind it for minor effects, but this is too powerful) and I wish it wasn’t the best option in a condi build. But they’ve been buffing other professions’ CC and stunbreaks so much that our two standard fears from Doom and Reaper’#s Mark just don’t cut it anymore, and the passive boon procs from the new runes are so ridonculous that, even with Path of Corruption, we can almost never remove Stability to get a third fear with Corrupt Boon. When you’re playing something that kills as slowly as a condi necro, you need to stop your enemy delivering their damage multiple times to be able to kill them before they kill you, and, the way soft CC like cripples and Weakness has been rendered useless in this game, hard CC like fear is the only way to do this. Ergo people taking RP and Nightmare runes, for multiple fear procs. If our Weakening Shroud didn’t only do 2 measly seconds of weakness, if thieves weren’t effectively immune to chilled and crippled, and if everyone except mesmers and engis didn’t have condition removal coming out the wazoo, then maybe we could stay alive long enough to kill something using just our soft CC rather than need cheesy, zero-skill things like passive fear procs.

About Dhuumfire, I think that trait needs to go away. A sigil does a better job applying burning for me but then I am not skilled enough in PvP to use Dhuuf effectively.

Wait what sigil applies burning?

Anchoku.8142:

Narkodx.1472:

Anchoku.8142:

Roe, the example I gave was from PvE but I still think changing the trait to a very short Fear and long stun is worth considering for PvP. I do not want to have to burn Dark Path because of my own CC. I have enough trouble closing gaps for dagger as it is. Knock-backs are fine for professions with combat mobility skills and more easily mitigated. Having to waste time and gamble DP or SG will actually work is already a pain.

What are you on about!? This trait is garbage for PvE you should not be using it nor should you be putting any points into death magic anyway

Five stacks of confusion is not garbage. Even then, I only said I used the trait on a perplexity build, did not like it very much due to its side effects, and suggested an improvement to the trait.

During ToT, I experimented with interrupts for perplexity in 6/4/4/0/0 and 6/6/0/0/2. Feel free to give me suggestions but do not tell me what I can, and cannot, do

Edit: I hope we can all agree RP is sub-par without some damaging proc on the skill. Plain Fear w/o Terror or confusion on RP is annoying for its duration as a gap opener on a profession with only two mobility skills, no leaps, and no whirls. I <3 walls and cliffs for limiting flee distance or forcing a fight reset because the profession has precious little mobility.

Do not take offense to what I said you are free to use whatever you want this is a game first and fun is most important right

However I do not think most people will agree that Zerker Armor with Perplexity Runes and Reapers Protection is a good combination anywhere in the game especially in PvE

Mobs in PvE do not attack fast enough for confusion to be a solid source of DPS furthermore you are in zerker gear making your confusion tick for negligible amounts and finally Reapers Protection and death magic in general is not necessary in PvE where the only thing that truly matters is damage

But again do not take this offensively play what you like – I am simply stating it is not an optimal setup

Pretty sure no sigil applies burning – it would be insanely overpowered

flow.6043:

Dial back the arrogance. I’m not sure if you really believe what you write or you’re deliberately trying to make me look like a fool to deminish my credibility.
Just read the thread again if you must.

Sometimes it’s good to follow your own advice
I am simply applying your own medicine to you.

You still don’t get it. I didn’t copy paste walls of text everytime because I assumed that people had actually read all the posts before that. But apparently you didn’t.

Yes. I am 12, I can’t read, and I accidentally stumbled in here and dumped random comments around.
I started with reasonable neutral comments which were indirectly pointed at you in hopes something good can come out of it. Didn’t know it would be like talking to a wall though.

Greater Marks of course.
Why? Because in my imaginary fight I’m actually up against someone who knows how to figth necros, has blocks, decent cleansing or condition immunities, stability…. take your pick.

An opponent who knows how to fight Necros won’t have a problem with a few large marks. If you can’t hit someone with small marks, you should work on aiming, although I do admit it’s easier with bigger marks.
Second… it’s rare that people have all of those at once. For example, warriors don’t have good condi clears aside from Cleansing Ire. They have Berserk Stance, some stability (corrupt boon) and possibly a block. The only place where Greater Marks comes to being useful here is when they block, which you could actually easily wait out, or cast Dark Path which is unblockable so you don’t really lose out on much. Anyway, I don’t want to get into each profession to describe how little you’d gain by picking up Greater Marks.

And I’m just quickly adressing your thief example, if I may: first of all, thieves are not hard to fight. Secondly, you’re assuming that they have one burst. Just one, and it starts at the beginning of a fight with a stun. This is of course false, and actually triggering RP at the beginning of an encounter with them is the worst that could happen.

Most have a 1-sec daze, not a stun (unless we look at Basi Venom – it’s still only 1.5 secs tho). They are not hard and they are not easy – it depends on the opponent and it depends how you encounter them. If you have 5k HP you can be dead meat. Greater Marks will do absolutely nothing to protect you from a gank – 0. Nada. None. Null. Whereas Reaper’s Protection will actually push the guy off, etc. etc. etc. the end result being: you know you are being ganked, can react and live. On the other hand, if you are fighting the Thief and you actually see them coming… you simply can’t say that the fear triggered does nothing. Having the thief run from you for 2-3 seconds in a PvP environment is…. I don’t think I even need to say it.

So let me make it clear, Greater Marks is better than RP against thieves. The extra surface area is almost 80% more, that is very valuable against stealthed opponents because you’re more likely to hit them when you’re trying to, and you get more area denial when you’re precasting marks. I know that doesn’t sound like much to you, but it’s incredibly valuable, not to mention that it works all the time and not just once every hour.

First of all, most stealth thieves have condi removal in stealth, as well as the regen from 30 points in Shadow Arts. It doesn’t matter what you hit them with while in stealth (staff#2,3, whatever)… they likely won’t lose any health – UNLESS they go into Shadow Refuge with low hp, but even then, they are predictable where they hide and small marks work just well. Either way, large marks are nice against thieves because you have more area to kite and they would have to waste more evades if they want to trigger your marks unharmed. Unlike you though, I actually used both traits for a very long time. The problem is, in sPvP thieves don’t stealth much so using Greater Marks against their stealth has little effect. In WvW they do use stealth but in WvW they aren’t nearly as problematic. Anyway. I am glad you think it’s more useful. You can keep your Greater Marks, and we will keep our Reaper’s Protection.

flow.6043:

Wrong. For some reason you seem to be under the impression that the only purpose of Greater Marks is to use Reaper’s Mark on someone who’s using a block skill.
I won’t post every quote of you mentioning Greater Marks at this point, but you are so deluded about that trait’s contribution to every fight you have, it’s mind blowing to me.

It does have AoE regen but if you are already using it for allies, it means you are likely in a team fight. If you have someone like a guardian with high heal power, your regen could actually be a detriment. Your weak 0-healing power regen could get applied before the Guardian’s, reducing the healing to your allies. Second, larger area to cast marks isn’t too beneficial when you already know how to aim your marks. They are large enough already. Fights around points are also not as spread out. Larger poison is nice in theory but I doubt you will be like “Ok guys I’m dropping poison field now everyone use your combo finishers!”
-Don’t confuse “deluded” with experienced.
I am feeling like this argument is not even about Greater Marks vs. Reaper’s Protection anymore. You just want to be right. I have no problem admitting I’m wrong when I’m actually wrong. But when I know things as fact there’s simply nothing someone can say, really.

20% more than 10% = 12%.
Don’t tell me that up to now you actually believed this trait gives you 30% life force?

Yup. I actually thought you get a whole 30% life force from each death. I’m new to the game.

flow.6043:

Yes, but burning alone was not the only thing making the build strong. Like I said, 6 in Spite with Chill of Death is/was a huge contributer. And believe it or not, Dhuumfire users today are actually stronger than they used to be because burning is longer and you have more control over it. Of course it would take more skill to make use of it and that alone seems to be enough to no longer hold its meta status.
But again, you’re making me repeat myself.

Yes Chill of Death is strong, but I don’t think they are stronger now than they were before. Well… that’s debatable, but with the passive proc, you don’t even have to use a brain cell and the enemy is burning, running away from you in Fear with poison, cripple and 100 stacks of bleed. Now you have to actually go into DS and hit with your life blast which is more tricky.
Please repeat moar.

Like I said, the duration extension for all defensive conditions makes up for not having RP.
As for the rest: If you use Dhuumfire you also have at least 4 in Curses (look at that, we’re actually back on the thread’s topic), so the choice you’ll have to make is between Path of Corruption, Staff Mastery and Master of Terror. And every possible variation is stronger and has more defense than a build with RP.

See… now THIS is an actually debatable topic. Finally!
I haven’t used Spite much personally so this is fun.
I don’t think the increased condi duration fully makes up for RP, because RP is hard CC as opposed to some cripple and chill. That’s debatable as well though and both have their uses.
Yes, at least 4 in Curses. I actually wanted to go 6/4/0/0/4 build so that might be my next project since my – condi duration (lemongrass Melandru) WvW Necro is annoying … anyway. Yes, you make a choice between Path of Corruption, going into Death, or going into Soul Reaping. Variations of where you put those points may be stronger on a stationary dummy, NOT in actual fights. Actual fights are much, much more variable than a simple stationary sPvP dummy that doesn’t react. In a team fight where there’s lots of cleanse and stability, you run into the same problem. Condis are not likely to tick their whole duration. Additionally, if you more easily focused down and killed, your DPS is now 0.
-If you don’t go 6 in Curses, you lose boon strip on Dark Path which is unbelievably powerful, especially when combined with Corrupt Boon. And if you DO take it, now your fears are not as long as a terrormancer’s (less damage and shorter CC from it), you have less defenses, but longer overall condi duration and other stuff we mentioned. So really, it’s more about ups and downs than one build being better than the other.
-If you go 20 in Soul Reaping for Master of Terror, you could get 95% longer duration on Fear, which is actually very strong and would be fun to try out. Especially with Runes of Nightmare. Yup, I’m gonna try it.

FYI a Necro in one of the top teams uses a Terrormancer build that you so despise. Now let’s think on this. Top team. You’d think they would want to be optimal, right? Why would they want to be optimal? To have a best chance at winning. Why? They get stuff, including actual money, which is a huge incentive. You’d think that a top team with a “top necro” would want to be 100% optimal in terms of strategy, skill, and builds because victory, reputation and money are on the line, but wait… the Necro uses the Terromancer build that’s “bad”, NOT a Dhuumfire build that’s just oh-so-superior. Oh no, what a conundrum.

Anyway though. Dhuumfire vs. standard Terromancer is the only topic where my mind is changeable and it’s the only debatable topic here because I do think that Spite has a LOT of potential, especially 6/4/0/0/4. However, Reaper’s Protection vs. Greater Marks is not debateable. Period. Now let’s move on.

Edit: @GoogleBrandon, I want to try Dhuumfire as well because now that it actually takes a brain cell and it’s non-meta, it might be really interesting to try it. We’ll see.

@Emapudapus,
Yeah this is true. But the only things you can use to extend your fear chain is mark#5 which could be the tricky thing to land if you are stunned for a long time, and Doom, which is instant. You also have Runes of Nightmare but that’s going in the extreme.
As for Hoelbrak runes… I never thought of those. Do people actually use them? I thought Strength Runes are a thing instead (I don’t know).
-As for fear chaining, I think it depends. I agree that fear chaining all at once is not really smart because if you use every fear quickly, sure it’s a long fear but 1 stun break and it’s all gone. I think a better use would be if you are fearing someone with an ally. A fear is almost like a stun, especially if the enemy is rooted while feared. Either way though, I think people who get feared off still gives you some breathing room to gather your thoughts.

@manveruppd. You said things much better than I ever could.

MethaneGas.8357:

An opponent who knows how to fight Necros won’t have a problem with a few large marks. If you can’t hit someone with small marks, you should work on aiming, although I do admit it’s easier with bigger marks.

Its not only about being easyer to hit target. With small marks you litteraly waste skill if you try to hit stealth target (not just thieves), with bigger marks you have also bigger staff range, with bigger marks you can hit ppl behind object or hiding behind pillars …. You need to see bigger picture.
And about condi clear on thieves when stealth … usualy you fight him before and unload some conditions on them so they cant just clear all condis off while stealth if you hit them with marks and they might kill him if low health.

It might not be directly linked to the discusion but its an important fact if you want to realy evaluate dhuumfire vs “terror”.

MethaneGas.8357:

Reaper’s Protection vs. Greater Marks is not debateable. Period.

-_-

Oh “period”, why didn’t you say that earlier? If I you had put the same emphasis in your other posts, I wouldn’t have dared to question your opinion.
Anyway, I give up.

MethaneGas.8357:

As for Hoelbrak runes… I never thought of those. Do people actually use them? I thought Strength Runes are a thing instead (I don’t know).

People have realized that trading the 15% Might duration for -20% condition duration is a really good trade.

Emapudapus.1307:

Its not only about being easyer to hit target. With small marks you litteraly waste skill if you try to hit stealth target (not just thieves), with bigger marks you have also bigger staff range, with bigger marks you can hit ppl behind object or hiding behind pillars …. You need to see bigger picture.
And about condi clear on thieves when stealth … usualy you fight him before and unload some conditions on them so they cant just clear all condis off while stealth if you hit them with marks and they might kill him if low health.

It might not be directly linked to the discusion but its an important fact if you want to realy evaluate dhuumfire vs “terror”.

Hmm… that’s true. It provides more utility and covers more ground. I think it’s really effective against Mesmers because they don’t have as much condi removal, although it’s also good against stealthed thieves because one mark covers a huge area. It can be a little problematic though because a lot of thieves use sword/dagger #3, which is an evade, and then they steal… so if you stand on your mark, the mark will be evaded. But this isn’t really an issue of Greater Mark but marks in general. Thieves in sPvP are a different breed and take some getting used to :P in WvW you can just put marks on top of yourself and you are more or less safe. Does not seem to be the case in sPvP. Anyway.

The only problem with Shadow’s Embrace (thief condi removal in stealth) is that it removes a condi as soon as they enter stealth. I didn’t test this but its likely that it removes bleeds first… or at least that’s what a lot of condi clears remove first.

I think Dhuumfire would hurt thieves quite a bit, especially if you stack poison, bleed and burning. If the bleed gets cleansed the burning is still there.

People have realized that trading the 15% Might duration for -20% condition duration is a really good trade.

Interesting…. so all the classes which used Strength are now transitioning to Hoelbrak?
I think Sigil of Malice + condi duration runes could work well to counter this, but then you basically lose a sigil to compensate… but they lose 5% more damage and might duration so I guess it’s a tradeoff, maybe.
Or Spite could crawl into the meta.

MethaneGas.8357:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

People have realized that trading the 15% Might duration for -20% condition duration is a really good trade.

Interesting…. so all the classes which used Strength are now transitioning to Hoelbrak?
I think Sigil of Malice + condi duration runes could work well to counter this, but then you basically lose a sigil to compensate… but they lose 5% more damage and might duration so I guess it’s a tradeoff, maybe.
Or Spite could crawl into the meta.

At the very least, every Celestial ele in the NA ToG was using Hoelbrak runes. I can’t say it’s become meta for everyone who used Strength runes to now use Hoelbrak, but the top tier players seem to think it’s a worthwhile trade.

Of course, since the bane of Celestial eles is Corrupt Boon, it rather makes sense to lose a bit of offense to mitigate that weakness.

I’ve actually been playing 6/4/0/0/4 Dhuumfire Necro in sPvP since last writing here and I can honestly say it’s really good. The pressure it applies to the usually annoying classes can get them off of you even if you are low on health. Been using something like this:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fRAQNBLhZakjmyb7sxvG+bTgLUQvABQ0G5HMBU2GpBA-TJhHwAU2fAwpAAZZgAPBAA
Although it feels a bit more squish, I think so far I like it (dare I say?) more than the standard Terrormancer. Been stuck between using Nightmare Runes and Balthazar Runes though – can’t tell which is better yet. I also can’t tell what’s better between Geomancy and Doom sigils either so far (at least when using Dhuum), because swapping weapons, going into DS and life blasting (burn+poison) someone as you fear them, then Dark Path is almost a death sentence for anyone who’s squishy. Not only that but the poison makes their “Oh kitten!” heal skill heal for less…. but Geomancy is AoE.

Next to test is a boon-strip Terrormancer.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fRAQNArdWjc0UebnN+1wfbighSyW4DiuBCgzlyk4KA-TJRHwAp3fAZZAAnCABPBAA
Edit: I suppose in the above build it could be interesting to put 20 from death into Spite for Chill of Death and focus cooldowns. That would be some ultimate boon-strippage.

For current meta? Only Terror PoC or Power builds.

Keeping mightstacks at bay became our main task in fights.

Played right poc is a corrupting condi bombing cc spamming machine.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

MethaneGas.8357:

As for Hoelbrak runes… I never thought of those. Do people actually use them? I thought Strength Runes are a thing instead (I don’t know).

People have realized that trading the 15% Might duration for -20% condition duration is a really good trade.

I have a Hoelbrak set, too, despite Necromancer being supposedly great at managing conditions. It is particularly effective in fighting stuns and fears. Hard counters are Necromancer’s weak points and they are, like it or not, conditions.

Anchoku.8142:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

MethaneGas.8357:

As for Hoelbrak runes… I never thought of those. Do people actually use them? I thought Strength Runes are a thing instead (I don’t know).

People have realized that trading the 15% Might duration for -20% condition duration is a really good trade.

I have a Hoelbrak set, too, despite Necromancer being supposedly great at managing conditions. It is particularly effective in fighting stuns and fears. Hard counters are Necromancer’s weak points and they are, like it or not, conditions.

With condi nec, you have access to 3 very powerful condi cleanses without taking any utilities or traits. They shouldn’t ever become a problem. But if you still have a hard time, take Plague Signet, not a rune which gives pointless bonuses.

If you want to cripple yourself at all costs, take Melandru and not Hoelbrak – more condi AND stun reduction plus gives stats you can actually use. Hoelbrak is a great rune for power specs that actually stack might, condi nec is not one of those.

But if you’re taking so many conditions that you can’t manage them, the only problem I see is that you’re in the middle of the fight, stading on point and such, never do that with nec.