Guild Wars 2

The recent addition of 2 bleed stacks to Deathly Chill has been just what we needed. So satisfying be able to wrekt kitten again. Catch a couple in a choke, spam your chills and watch them all melt. Been running JQ BL and only problems have been a really good thief and the ocassional supercharged Beserker. Wonder how long before nerf.

so this is how people ask for nerfs now?

If they do nerf (no I do not want it to be nerfed) I’d say reduce to 2 bleeds per chill but revert back to 8s duration. This was my original suggestion to buff it after all.

Isnt supossed that deathly chill applied 3 stacks of bleeding only in pve mode?

Conqueror.3682:

Isnt supossed that deathly chill applied 3 stacks of bleeding only in pve mode?

It also applies to WvW (but not sPvP)

I’d definitely like to see 2 stacks in spvp. One is a bad joke for an alleged grandmaster, playstyle defining trait..

It’s so good I have to use it on my celestial geared power reaper with might stacking. If I don’t I’m just out gunned against every condi reaper out there. Needs nerf in some capacity.

It’s a broken noskill trait.

9 unavoidable bleeds for 10 seconds on weapon swap. 20 other bleeds in 2 seconds, covered by at least 5 cover conditions without the need of any skill. Just mash buttons.

I main necro and I have zero respect for anyone who plays this. Just go to your condi mes and condi thief friends who also suck at the game and need some crutch.

Spamwich is back.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0JWZ8t08TY

KrHome.1920:

It’s a broken noskill trait.

9 unavoidable bleeds for 10 seconds on weapon swap. 20 other bleeds in 2 seconds, covered by at least 5 cover conditions without the need of any skill. Just mash buttons.

I main necro and I have zero respect for anyone who plays this. Just go to your condi mes and condi thief friends who also suck at the game and need some crutch.

Spamwich is back.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0JWZ8t08TY

I’m sorry what?
Oh wait nevermind your talking about WvW.

Try playing the rest of the game where condi necromancer handicaps any group it joins.

The only reason necro is a problem in WvW is because everything is a problem in WvW, because WvW is on the PvE gear system. If was using the sPvP amulet system none of these problems would exist.

KrHome.1920:

It’s a broken noskill trait.

9 unavoidable bleeds for 10 seconds on weapon swap. 20 other bleeds in 2 seconds, covered by at least 5 cover conditions without the need of any skill. Just mash buttons.

I main necro and I have zero respect for anyone who plays this. Just go to your condi mes and condi thief friends who also suck at the game and need some crutch.

Spamwich is back.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0JWZ8t08TY

Are you really comparing the current condi necro with condi thieves and mesmers? Then I’ll gladly take a few blocks/invulns/stealth for a lower condi spike if that’s what’s “skillful”.

From what I’ve read of you in these forums, is that you appear to have a massive disdain for condi builds, which is fine since you are entitled to your own opinion, but preaching it the way you do to the point of discrediting other players efforts, not so cool.

Whether you want to accept it or not, Necro is probably one of the most condition oriented professions in the game, even if you play a power build, and is naturally keen to condition builds because of that. Do you think a lot of people were playing power builds around a year ago when GS was barely viable and other power weapons/traits were still subpar in most game modes?

Back to the topic, Deathly Chill finally gives condi burst a meaning, yes it needs a slight toning down but kitten it feels good to finally see Necros being a proper threat, this walking plague of debuffs and dots that I always envisioned, bad thing is that the constant bullseye on our backs just got bigger.

IMO, they should rework this trait completly. Reaper is supposed to be more or less a Power-Spec, and the trait shoulddo at leaest some dmg everytime chill is applied.
On the other side, this is as well a really boring trait XD

This would be more in line with the idea of this spec IMO….but, there are many other opinions on this^^

Kydar Schattendolch.6879:

IMO, they should rework this trait completly. Reaper is supposed to be more or less a Power-Spec, and the trait shoulddo at leaest some dmg everytime chill is applied.
On the other side, this is as well a really boring trait XD

This would be more in line with the idea of this spec IMO….but, there are many other opinions on this^^

And where is is stated that Reaper is supposed to be a power spec? Or is it just that you want it to be a power spec?

Lahmia.2193:

Kydar Schattendolch.6879:

IMO, they should rework this trait completly. Reaper is supposed to be more or less a Power-Spec, and the trait shoulddo at leaest some dmg everytime chill is applied.
On the other side, this is as well a really boring trait XD

This would be more in line with the idea of this spec IMO….but, there are many other opinions on this^^

And where is is stated that Reaper is supposed to be a power spec? Or is it just that you want it to be a power spec?

I have to admit, if it was intended to be a power-only spec, anet sure as heck screwed up with those traits that put burning, chill and bleed, etc, on shroud auto-attacks.

I’d find it more credible if it was said that core shroud was “intended” to be power only than reaper shroud was.

Lahmia.2193:

Kydar Schattendolch.6879:

IMO, they should rework this trait completly. Reaper is supposed to be more or less a Power-Spec, and the trait shoulddo at leaest some dmg everytime chill is applied.
On the other side, this is as well a really boring trait XD

This would be more in line with the idea of this spec IMO….but, there are many other opinions on this^^

And where is is stated that Reaper is supposed to be a power spec? Or is it just that you want it to be a power spec?

Anet said that is was power focused when they were showing it off before HoT. Reaper was supposed to be a melee power brawler. Not that that means that every single thing about it should be power only but that is what they said. Kinda funny looking back at it as an attempt to fix powernecro but it ended up boosting condi necro even more.

DTATL.9641:

Lahmia.2193:

Kydar Schattendolch.6879:

IMO, they should rework this trait completly. Reaper is supposed to be more or less a Power-Spec, and the trait shoulddo at leaest some dmg everytime chill is applied.
On the other side, this is as well a really boring trait XD

This would be more in line with the idea of this spec IMO….but, there are many other opinions on this^^

And where is is stated that Reaper is supposed to be a power spec? Or is it just that you want it to be a power spec?

Anet said that is was power focused when they were showing it off before HoT. Reaper was supposed to be a melee power brawler. Not that that means that every single thing about it should be power only but that is what they said. Kinda funny looking back at it as an attempt to fix powernecro but it ended up boosting condi necro even more.

I mean, greatsword seemed like it was designed almost purely for power but currently, the only meta build that uses it is a viper condi build.
As for the reaper spec itself, I don’t recall them saying it was going to be power focused. Most likely people misinterpreted the “melee brawler” to mean this.

It definitely needs normalization to 2 in the PvP formats with potentially lower durations. Right now you pretty much just press 5 4 3 and everything nearby dies.

Lahmia.2193:

And where is is stated that Reaper is supposed to be a power spec? Or is it just that you want it to be a power spec?

Reaper has exactly 1 condi damage trait in the entire traitline. In addition all of Reaper’s Shroud’s skills and all of GS’s skills have really high power coefficients. None of the shouts are condi either.

Moreover at a synergy level reaper synergizes better with power builds than condi. (see the interaction between Blighter’s Boon and the spite traitline.)

Crinn.7864:

Lahmia.2193:

And where is is stated that Reaper is supposed to be a power spec? Or is it just that you want it to be a power spec?

Reaper has exactly 1 condi damage trait in the entire traitline. In addition all of Reaper’s Shroud’s skills and all of GS’s skills have really high power coefficients. None of the shouts are condi either.

Moreover at a synergy level reaper synergizes better with power builds than condi. (see the interaction between Blighter’s Boon and the spite traitline.)

See Dhuumfire and Deathly Chill to see that you are wrong there. Add Chilling Darkness into the mix and EVERY reaper’s shroud skill does condition damage.
Clearly you are ignoring how much synergy the Reaper line has with other lines to boost condi builds.

Lahmia.2193:

Crinn.7864:

Lahmia.2193:

And where is is stated that Reaper is supposed to be a power spec? Or is it just that you want it to be a power spec?

Reaper has exactly 1 condi damage trait in the entire traitline. In addition all of Reaper’s Shroud’s skills and all of GS’s skills have really high power coefficients. None of the shouts are condi either.

Moreover at a synergy level reaper synergizes better with power builds than condi. (see the interaction between Blighter’s Boon and the spite traitline.)

See Dhuumfire and Deathly Chill to see that you are wrong there. Add Chilling Darkness into the mix and EVERY reaper’s shroud skill does condition damage.
Clearly you are ignoring how much synergy the Reaper line has with other lines to boost condi builds.

But Dhuumfire and Chilling Darkness are not Reaper traits. Just because there are core traits that have synergy with condition aspects does not mean Reaper wasn’t made with power in mind. Chilling darkness can have value on power as it gives more chill to snare its foes with so it’s not like it’s exclusively a condi trait. Dhuumfire is only better as RS1 has a higher attackrate than DS1 and has more reliable cleave. So just because something attacks faster its made for condi because Dhuumfire? that’s a bit of a stretch.

The only skill in RS that has a damaging condition on by default is RS4 which is also utility at the same time because of reduced healing. Fear, chill and blind are equally good for power. The only way to make them work for condition builds is to modify them with traits. These traits will still exist no matter what elite spec they bring out(except for Deathly Chill which is the only pure condition damage trait in the reaper traitline). Doesn’t that make it so that every elite spec will be condi focused in your eyes as those traits will always be there?

DTATL.9641:

Lahmia.2193:

Crinn.7864:

Lahmia.2193:

And where is is stated that Reaper is supposed to be a power spec? Or is it just that you want it to be a power spec?

Reaper has exactly 1 condi damage trait in the entire traitline. In addition all of Reaper’s Shroud’s skills and all of GS’s skills have really high power coefficients. None of the shouts are condi either.

Moreover at a synergy level reaper synergizes better with power builds than condi. (see the interaction between Blighter’s Boon and the spite traitline.)

See Dhuumfire and Deathly Chill to see that you are wrong there. Add Chilling Darkness into the mix and EVERY reaper’s shroud skill does condition damage.
Clearly you are ignoring how much synergy the Reaper line has with other lines to boost condi builds.

But Dhuumfire and Chilling Darkness are not Reaper traits. Just because there are core traits that have synergy with condition aspects does not mean Reaper wasn’t made with power in mind. Chilling darkness can have value on power as it gives more chill to snare its foes with so it’s not like it’s exclusively a condi trait. Dhuumfire is only better as RS1 has a higher attackrate than DS1 and has more reliable cleave. So just because something attacks faster its made for condi because Dhuumfire? that’s a bit of a stretch.

The only skill in RS that has a damaging condition on by default is RS4 which is also utility at the same time because of reduced healing. Fear, chill and blind are equally good for power. The only way to make them work for condition builds is to modify them with traits. These traits will still exist no matter what elite spec they bring out(except for Deathly Chill which is the only pure condition damage trait in the reaper traitline). Doesn’t that make it so that every elite spec will be condi focused in your eyes as those traits will always be there?

I’m not arguing that it was designed for condi. I’m saying it was designed for both power and condi. The original point I was countering was that Reaper was designed with power in mind, which clearly isn’t true (just as Berserker seemed very condition focused but yet it compliments power perfectly too).

Lahmia.2193:

I’m not arguing that it was designed for condi. I’m saying it was designed for both power and condi. The original point I was countering was that Reaper was designed with power in mind, which clearly isn’t true (just as Berserker seemed very condition focused but yet it compliments power perfectly too).

No it wasn’t. Reaper is a good power spec without needing other traitlines or utilities. However to make Reaper a decent condi traitline you have to invest heavily into condi traits from other lines

Crinn.7864:

Lahmia.2193:

I’m not arguing that it was designed for condi. I’m saying it was designed for both power and condi. The original point I was countering was that Reaper was designed with power in mind, which clearly isn’t true (just as Berserker seemed very condition focused but yet it compliments power perfectly too).

No it wasn’t. Reaper is a good power spec without needing other traitlines or utilities. However to make Reaper a decent condi traitline you have to invest heavily into condi traits from other lines

Reaper lacks any damage increases. The only trait that currently does not benefit condi but does benefit power is Reaper’s Onslaught which, as far as I’m aware, is still a dps loss on power builds over Deathly Chill. Both power and condi builds take the same traits to max out damage.
Reaper was most certainly designed to compliment both power and condition builds.
Maybe you’re mistaking Reaper for Scrapper. Now there’s an elite spec that was designed with power (and pvp) in mind.

Lahmia.2193:

Reaper lacks any damage increases. The only trait that currently does not benefit condi but does benefit power is Reaper’s Onslaught which, as far as I’m aware, is still a dps loss on power builds over Deathly Chill. Both power and condi builds take the same traits to max out damage.
Reaper was most certainly designed to compliment both power and condition builds.
Maybe you’re mistaking Reaper for Scrapper. Now there’s an elite spec that was designed with power (and pvp) in mind.

But that ain’t true by your logic. Scrapper benefits condi engineers as it gives them sustain they can’t get elsewhere. The problem with engineer is that their traits have terrible synergy and that condi engi cant afford to loose any traitline for the sustain of scrapper without loosing way more than what they get in sustain, this does not invalidate what utility and sustain condi engi can get from scrapper. I agree with Scrapper being a powerbased elite spec but if you look at it with “Can condi gain benefits from scrapper?” then the answer is yes which seems to be your argument for reaper.

Also, when looking at traitsynergy across necro and reaper, as you did before, you can see that Reaper’s Onslaught boosts attackspeed which increases the rate you can apply dhuumfire. So by your logic that should be a possible condi trait too. Even if you look at reaper in a vacuum then Reaper’s Onslaught gives you the possibility to use RS5+RS4 more often because of the cooldown reduction which is the best condi combo we currently have.

The problem with this discussion is that it seems that you seems to talk about how Reaper current design and how it works. And with that I totally agree with what you have said. But I argue that reaper was initially power focused which can be seen in how it worked at release, and that I don’t talk about possible utility not having value for both condi and power.
There is no single traitline that can’t add value to power or condi as utility is not about the type of damage, there is always something that can be used for both types which means utility is pointless to add to the argument because then there could never be anything that is designed for only one type when it has some utility. This might be exactly what you are trying to say but then your last post goes against that with your comment about scrapper.

Currently Deathly chill is heavily weighted towards condibuilds that I agree with and it has great synergy with the rest of necro. But when reaper was released it worked like Terror with a 4th of the scaling. Back then the difference between no condition damage and going sinister wasn’t that high and the community said it was bad during the betas(especially since BB was op) so it was changed to have much more condi scaling but that was after release. The condi side of reaper was minimal before that and Deathly chill was almost as powerful for power as for condi. The design back then made it more of a hybrid trait rather then a clear condi one. And without the deathly chill for condi which your argument is basically based around as all traits that has synergy with deathly chill are the ones you say makes it designed around condi as well. Everything about reaper was better with power at release(aside from utility which I feel is a pointless argument). So I can’t really see your argument that reaper was designed with both when everything initially pointed towards power. At best I could understand an argument with reaper being designed with power and power-hybrids in mind.

If there is something you think I’m missing please tell me, I don’t mind being proven wrong but the way you have brought forth you arguments so far it doesn’t hold up.

They’ll likely just add an ICD to the trait.

Ayrilana.1396:

They’ll likely just add an ICD to the trait.

I actually thought this trait was linked to skills that caused chill rather than any chill at all. It would actually probably be easier to balance if the source of chill was limited to that instead of any random chill. Thinking of the difference between a random icd procing chilling bolt combo vs guaranteed 600 chill shouts always procing as extremes.

Justine.6351:

Ayrilana.1396:

They’ll likely just add an ICD to the trait.

I actually thought this trait was linked to skills that caused chill rather than any chill at all. It would actually probably be easier to balance if the source of chill was limited to that instead of any random chill. Thinking of the difference between a random icd procing chilling bolt combo vs guaranteed 600 chill shouts always procing as extremes.

Except I don’t believe the stacks last all that long so something like 2 seconds may be enough to make it not be so OP.

Ayrilana.1396:

Justine.6351:

Ayrilana.1396:

They’ll likely just add an ICD to the trait.

I actually thought this trait was linked to skills that caused chill rather than any chill at all. It would actually probably be easier to balance if the source of chill was limited to that instead of any random chill. Thinking of the difference between a random icd procing chilling bolt combo vs guaranteed 600 chill shouts always procing as extremes.

Except I don’t believe the stacks last all that long so something like 2 seconds may be enough to make it not be so OP.

No,
I mean if you put an icd on it then random procs of things like chilling bolt can make you sadface because it denies you potential 600 aoe 5 target bleed if you cast a chill shout like .5sec after that. I think it would be better to tie chill bleed to the actual skills that cause chill for this reason.

Justine.6351:

Ayrilana.1396:

Justine.6351:

Ayrilana.1396:

They’ll likely just add an ICD to the trait.

I actually thought this trait was linked to skills that caused chill rather than any chill at all. It would actually probably be easier to balance if the source of chill was limited to that instead of any random chill. Thinking of the difference between a random icd procing chilling bolt combo vs guaranteed 600 chill shouts always procing as extremes.

Except I don’t believe the stacks last all that long so something like 2 seconds may be enough to make it not be so OP.

No,
I mean if you put an icd on it then random procs of things like chilling bolt can make you sadface because it denies you potential 600 aoe 5 target bleed if you cast a chill shout like .5sec after that. I think it would be better to tie chill bleed to the actual skills that cause chill for this reason.

Is there even a precedent to separate a particular condition by whether it’s “random” or not? I don’t recall them having ever separated a condition based on its various sources. It just opens up for too many things that could go wrong.

Ayrilana.1396:

Justine.6351:

Ayrilana.1396:

Justine.6351:

Ayrilana.1396:

They’ll likely just add an ICD to the trait.

I actually thought this trait was linked to skills that caused chill rather than any chill at all. It would actually probably be easier to balance if the source of chill was limited to that instead of any random chill. Thinking of the difference between a random icd procing chilling bolt combo vs guaranteed 600 chill shouts always procing as extremes.

Except I don’t believe the stacks last all that long so something like 2 seconds may be enough to make it not be so OP.

No,
I mean if you put an icd on it then random procs of things like chilling bolt can make you sadface because it denies you potential 600 aoe 5 target bleed if you cast a chill shout like .5sec after that. I think it would be better to tie chill bleed to the actual skills that cause chill for this reason.

Is there even a precedent to separate a particular condition by whether it’s “random” or not? I don’t recall them having ever separated a condition based on its various sources. It just opens up for too many things that could go wrong.

You seem to look at it as more advanced than it really is. A simple way would just be to make the trait something like:

“Any ability that cause chill now also add x bleeds to the target(s)”

That’s just like the Thief trait “Serpent’s Touch”, which cause stealing to also inflict poison. Only now, instead of just one ability it adds an effect to several (all those that cause chill). This way it will be strictly linked to necro abilities so it won’t work with any “random chills”, and the way to implement it is already used in other traitlines in the game.

What Justine is saying is that he doesn’t want deathly chill to proc off shroud 5>4, or Chilling Darkness. That’s what he is asking for.

If deathly chill was changed to what Justine wants there would be very few things it could proc off of. Spinal Shivers (focus), Chillbians (staff), Executioners Scythe (shroud), Spectral Grasp (utility), “Suffer!” (utility), and “Chilled to the Bone!” (elite) Also GS #1 and #5 but no condi builds outside of raids will use a GS.

Of course your typical condi build won’t have half of those, which means Justine’s suggestion would render deathly chill more or less pointless and condi builds would actually be better off running blighters or onslaught.

The only change that Deathly Chill needs is for WvW to work like it does in sPvP. Necros are underpowered in all modes except WvW.

Rezok.2709:

Ayrilana.1396:

Justine.6351:

Ayrilana.1396:

Justine.6351:

Ayrilana.1396:

They’ll likely just add an ICD to the trait.

I actually thought this trait was linked to skills that caused chill rather than any chill at all. It would actually probably be easier to balance if the source of chill was limited to that instead of any random chill. Thinking of the difference between a random icd procing chilling bolt combo vs guaranteed 600 chill shouts always procing as extremes.

Except I don’t believe the stacks last all that long so something like 2 seconds may be enough to make it not be so OP.

No,
I mean if you put an icd on it then random procs of things like chilling bolt can make you sadface because it denies you potential 600 aoe 5 target bleed if you cast a chill shout like .5sec after that. I think it would be better to tie chill bleed to the actual skills that cause chill for this reason.

Is there even a precedent to separate a particular condition by whether it’s “random” or not? I don’t recall them having ever separated a condition based on its various sources. It just opens up for too many things that could go wrong.

You seem to look at it as more advanced than it really is. A simple way would just be to make the trait something like:

“Any ability that cause chill now also add x bleeds to the target(s)”

That’s just like the Thief trait “Serpent’s Touch”, which cause stealing to also inflict poison. Only now, instead of just one ability it adds an effect to several (all those that cause chill). This way it will be strictly linked to necro abilities so it won’t work with any “random chills”, and the way to implement it is already used in other traitlines in the game.

Look at it as more advanced? Huh?

Again. You’re assuming that the game differentiates between the sources of chill. As if it can tell if it comes from a skill vs a utility vs a proc vs a environmental weapon.

Crinn.7864:

What Justine is saying is that he doesn’t want deathly chill to proc off shroud 5>4, or Chilling Darkness. That’s what he is asking for.

If deathly chill was changed to what Justine wants there would be very few things it could proc off of. Spinal Shivers (focus), Chillbians (staff), Executioners Scythe (shroud), Spectral Grasp (utility), “Suffer!” (utility), and “Chilled to the Bone!” (elite) Also GS #1 and #5 but no condi builds outside of raids will use a GS.

Of course your typical condi build won’t have half of those, which means Justine’s suggestion would render deathly chill more or less pointless and condi builds would actually be better off running blighters or onslaught.

The only change that Deathly Chill needs is for WvW to work like it does in sPvP. Necros are underpowered in all modes except WvW.

actually I would make it work off necro/reaper traits too like blind and fear chilling. But I would also cap those to necro/reaper as well.

The problem is the runaway effect with building builds that all flow into bleed with no hard cap. Frost Aura, Chilling Sigils, Corrupted Stability/Fury/Resistance and Chill Bolts are probably the biggest offenders of this.

Justine.6351:

Crinn.7864:

What Justine is saying is that he doesn’t want deathly chill to proc off shroud 5>4, or Chilling Darkness. That’s what he is asking for.

If deathly chill was changed to what Justine wants there would be very few things it could proc off of. Spinal Shivers (focus), Chillbians (staff), Executioners Scythe (shroud), Spectral Grasp (utility), “Suffer!” (utility), and “Chilled to the Bone!” (elite) Also GS #1 and #5 but no condi builds outside of raids will use a GS.

Of course your typical condi build won’t have half of those, which means Justine’s suggestion would render deathly chill more or less pointless and condi builds would actually be better off running blighters or onslaught.

The only change that Deathly Chill needs is for WvW to work like it does in sPvP. Necros are underpowered in all modes except WvW.

actually I would make it work off necro/reaper traits too like blind and fear chilling. But I would also cap those to necro/reaper as well.

The problem is the runaway effect with building builds that all flow into bleed with no hard cap. Frost Aura, Chilling Sigils, Corrupted Stability/Fury/Resistance and Chill Bolts are probably the biggest offenders of this.

Except there is a hardcap. There is a known amount of finishers available to necro, and the amount of chill fields available is deterministic as well. The shroud 5>4 combo is intended, and was clearly designed that way. The amount of times that a necro is going to get a projectile or whirl finisher off of somebody’s else’s ice field is so few as to be irrelevant.

Like I know you hate necro because of WvW, but objectively WvW should be using the sPvP version of the trait anyways, and besides WvW balance is a joke anyways because of PvE food/gear/runes.

Crinn.7864:

Justine.6351:

Crinn.7864:

What Justine is saying is that he doesn’t want deathly chill to proc off shroud 5>4, or Chilling Darkness. That’s what he is asking for.

If deathly chill was changed to what Justine wants there would be very few things it could proc off of. Spinal Shivers (focus), Chillbians (staff), Executioners Scythe (shroud), Spectral Grasp (utility), “Suffer!” (utility), and “Chilled to the Bone!” (elite) Also GS #1 and #5 but no condi builds outside of raids will use a GS.

Of course your typical condi build won’t have half of those, which means Justine’s suggestion would render deathly chill more or less pointless and condi builds would actually be better off running blighters or onslaught.

The only change that Deathly Chill needs is for WvW to work like it does in sPvP. Necros are underpowered in all modes except WvW.

actually I would make it work off necro/reaper traits too like blind and fear chilling. But I would also cap those to necro/reaper as well.

The problem is the runaway effect with building builds that all flow into bleed with no hard cap. Frost Aura, Chilling Sigils, Corrupted Stability/Fury/Resistance and Chill Bolts are probably the biggest offenders of this.

Except there is a hardcap. There is a known amount of finishers available to necro, and the amount of chill fields available is deterministic as well. The shroud 5>4 combo is intended, and was clearly designed that way. The amount of times that a necro is going to get a projectile or whirl finisher off of somebody’s else’s ice field is so few as to be irrelevant.

Like I know you hate necro because of WvW, but objectively WvW should be using the sPvP version of the trait anyways, and besides WvW balance is a joke anyways because of PvE food/gear/runes.

Totally ignored the rest of my list, including ele frost aura share. I guess I don’t care as long as something is done. Right now my noob allies get melted by the enemy noob reapers mashing buttons. Its more or less the carnage making fights over by the luck of the draw or more accurately who has the last reapers standing to cleave the downs for the rally.

There we go,
Rally Wars 2

Why not tag up and explain how to use cleanse and light fields whirl/blast finisher? Or saying to a pair of guardians to pick SYS and CoP? A lot of people actually read what a commander have to say.

Ayrilana.1396:

Rezok.2709:

Ayrilana.1396:

Justine.6351:

Ayrilana.1396:

Justine.6351:

Ayrilana.1396:

They’ll likely just add an ICD to the trait.

I actually thought this trait was linked to skills that caused chill rather than any chill at all. It would actually probably be easier to balance if the source of chill was limited to that instead of any random chill. Thinking of the difference between a random icd procing chilling bolt combo vs guaranteed 600 chill shouts always procing as extremes.

Except I don’t believe the stacks last all that long so something like 2 seconds may be enough to make it not be so OP.

No,
I mean if you put an icd on it then random procs of things like chilling bolt can make you sadface because it denies you potential 600 aoe 5 target bleed if you cast a chill shout like .5sec after that. I think it would be better to tie chill bleed to the actual skills that cause chill for this reason.

Is there even a precedent to separate a particular condition by whether it’s “random” or not? I don’t recall them having ever separated a condition based on its various sources. It just opens up for too many things that could go wrong.

You seem to look at it as more advanced than it really is. A simple way would just be to make the trait something like:

“Any ability that cause chill now also add x bleeds to the target(s)”

That’s just like the Thief trait “Serpent’s Touch”, which cause stealing to also inflict poison. Only now, instead of just one ability it adds an effect to several (all those that cause chill). This way it will be strictly linked to necro abilities so it won’t work with any “random chills”, and the way to implement it is already used in other traitlines in the game.

Look at it as more advanced? Huh?

Again. You’re assuming that the game differentiates between the sources of chill. As if it can tell if it comes from a skill vs a utility vs a proc vs a environmental weapon.

No, I do not assume that. My idea is to avoid that all together, but it seems you misunderstood my previous post or something.

My idea is basically that you link Deadly Chill to abilities. It simply links it to the abilities, not to chill. Now, obviously they link it to those abilities with chill, but it’s not directly linked to chilling. It’s a rather simple solution if you want to remove the effect from “random chills”. Not sure why you insist on talking about telling the difference from skill / pro / enviornmental.

could try not blobbing in wvw that would also help

Rezok.2709:

Ayrilana.1396:

Rezok.2709:

Ayrilana.1396:

Justine.6351:

Ayrilana.1396:

Justine.6351:

Ayrilana.1396:

They’ll likely just add an ICD to the trait.

I actually thought this trait was linked to skills that caused chill rather than any chill at all. It would actually probably be easier to balance if the source of chill was limited to that instead of any random chill. Thinking of the difference between a random icd procing chilling bolt combo vs guaranteed 600 chill shouts always procing as extremes.

Except I don’t believe the stacks last all that long so something like 2 seconds may be enough to make it not be so OP.

No,
I mean if you put an icd on it then random procs of things like chilling bolt can make you sadface because it denies you potential 600 aoe 5 target bleed if you cast a chill shout like .5sec after that. I think it would be better to tie chill bleed to the actual skills that cause chill for this reason.

Is there even a precedent to separate a particular condition by whether it’s “random” or not? I don’t recall them having ever separated a condition based on its various sources. It just opens up for too many things that could go wrong.

You seem to look at it as more advanced than it really is. A simple way would just be to make the trait something like:

“Any ability that cause chill now also add x bleeds to the target(s)”

That’s just like the Thief trait “Serpent’s Touch”, which cause stealing to also inflict poison. Only now, instead of just one ability it adds an effect to several (all those that cause chill). This way it will be strictly linked to necro abilities so it won’t work with any “random chills”, and the way to implement it is already used in other traitlines in the game.

Look at it as more advanced? Huh?

Again. You’re assuming that the game differentiates between the sources of chill. As if it can tell if it comes from a skill vs a utility vs a proc vs a environmental weapon.

No, I do not assume that. My idea is to avoid that all together, but it seems you misunderstood my previous post or something.

My idea is basically that you link Deadly Chill to abilities. It simply links it to the abilities, not to chill. Now, obviously they link it to those abilities with chill, but it’s not directly linked to chilling. It’s a rather simple solution if you want to remove the effect from “random chills”. Not sure why you insist on talking about telling the difference from skill / pro / enviornmental.

You state that it’s simple but as I have said at least twice before: the game doesn’t differentiate chilled between skills, utilities, procs, and environmental weapons. What you’re suggesting is really no different. Whether directly or indirectly, you’re trying to have that trait differentiate chilled between skills and everything else as well as between the skills that have chilled vs those that do not.

There’s precedent for adding ICD’s so we’re more likely to see that. It’s easier to add since other traits have had ICD’s added before as well as food procs. It’s also easier to maintain as everything is contained within that trait and not upon which skills have chill.

Ayrilana.1396:

Rezok.2709:

Ayrilana.1396:

Rezok.2709:

Ayrilana.1396:

Justine.6351:

Ayrilana.1396:

Justine.6351:

Ayrilana.1396:

They’ll likely just add an ICD to the trait.

I actually thought this trait was linked to skills that caused chill rather than any chill at all. It would actually probably be easier to balance if the source of chill was limited to that instead of any random chill. Thinking of the difference between a random icd procing chilling bolt combo vs guaranteed 600 chill shouts always procing as extremes.

Except I don’t believe the stacks last all that long so something like 2 seconds may be enough to make it not be so OP.

No,
I mean if you put an icd on it then random procs of things like chilling bolt can make you sadface because it denies you potential 600 aoe 5 target bleed if you cast a chill shout like .5sec after that. I think it would be better to tie chill bleed to the actual skills that cause chill for this reason.

Is there even a precedent to separate a particular condition by whether it’s “random” or not? I don’t recall them having ever separated a condition based on its various sources. It just opens up for too many things that could go wrong.

You seem to look at it as more advanced than it really is. A simple way would just be to make the trait something like:

“Any ability that cause chill now also add x bleeds to the target(s)”

That’s just like the Thief trait “Serpent’s Touch”, which cause stealing to also inflict poison. Only now, instead of just one ability it adds an effect to several (all those that cause chill). This way it will be strictly linked to necro abilities so it won’t work with any “random chills”, and the way to implement it is already used in other traitlines in the game.

Look at it as more advanced? Huh?

Again. You’re assuming that the game differentiates between the sources of chill. As if it can tell if it comes from a skill vs a utility vs a proc vs a environmental weapon.

No, I do not assume that. My idea is to avoid that all together, but it seems you misunderstood my previous post or something.

My idea is basically that you link Deadly Chill to abilities. It simply links it to the abilities, not to chill. Now, obviously they link it to those abilities with chill, but it’s not directly linked to chilling. It’s a rather simple solution if you want to remove the effect from “random chills”. Not sure why you insist on talking about telling the difference from skill / pro / enviornmental.

You state that it’s simple but as I have said at least twice before: the game doesn’t differentiate chilled between skills, utilities, procs, and environmental weapons. What you’re suggesting is really no different. Whether directly or indirectly, you’re trying to have that trait differentiate chilled between skills and everything else as well as between the skills that have chilled vs those that do not.

There’s precedent for adding ICD’s so we’re more likely to see that. It’s easier to add since other traits have had ICD’s added before as well as food procs. It’s also easier to maintain as everything is contained within that trait and not upon which skills have chill.

It would be easier to either revert the buff or nerf it down to 2 stacks of bleeding. But it would be true anet fashion if they did put an icd on deathly chill, despite the fact that it is because of their change that it became (according to some) overpowered.

So here’s an idea, and I know it won’t go well with the condi players (of which I am one) but it does return deathly chill and the whole traitline back to a more power focused build that Anet initially intended.

The original DC turned chill into a damaging trait in and of itself. This was very problematic since chill stacks duration, not intensity, so if anyone else was also applying chill, odds are your damage never happened, or at best was delayed or effectively reduced. Less of a problem for you pvp types, but still a bad design.

Then they changed it to bleeds. An improvement, but this also opened up the can of worms that is being debated in this thread. (power elite spec → hybrid elite spec)

Why don’t they just do what they did with Terror? Have the trait do a set amount of damage, working off of a power coefficient, at the time of chill application? No DoT, no condition damage, just “hey you applied chill, here’s some extra damage” and done?

This would have been the best way to change DC, have reaper still be a power focused elite spec, but not have DC be a wasted trait.

Now, I’m not trying to destroy the condi reaper. I’m merely showing how the trait could have been fixed and have kept the original idea for what reaper is supposed to be. I love condi, just wondering why they went in the direction they did. I remember the flood of tears and screams of anguish when they first changed DC to apply bleed instead of its own damage.

Ayrilana.1396:

Rezok.2709:

Ayrilana.1396:

Rezok.2709:

Ayrilana.1396:

Justine.6351:

Ayrilana.1396:

Justine.6351:

Ayrilana.1396:

They’ll likely just add an ICD to the trait.

I actually thought this trait was linked to skills that caused chill rather than any chill at all. It would actually probably be easier to balance if the source of chill was limited to that instead of any random chill. Thinking of the difference between a random icd procing chilling bolt combo vs guaranteed 600 chill shouts always procing as extremes.

Except I don’t believe the stacks last all that long so something like 2 seconds may be enough to make it not be so OP.

No,
I mean if you put an icd on it then random procs of things like chilling bolt can make you sadface because it denies you potential 600 aoe 5 target bleed if you cast a chill shout like .5sec after that. I think it would be better to tie chill bleed to the actual skills that cause chill for this reason.

Is there even a precedent to separate a particular condition by whether it’s “random” or not? I don’t recall them having ever separated a condition based on its various sources. It just opens up for too many things that could go wrong.

You seem to look at it as more advanced than it really is. A simple way would just be to make the trait something like:

“Any ability that cause chill now also add x bleeds to the target(s)”

That’s just like the Thief trait “Serpent’s Touch”, which cause stealing to also inflict poison. Only now, instead of just one ability it adds an effect to several (all those that cause chill). This way it will be strictly linked to necro abilities so it won’t work with any “random chills”, and the way to implement it is already used in other traitlines in the game.

Look at it as more advanced? Huh?

Again. You’re assuming that the game differentiates between the sources of chill. As if it can tell if it comes from a skill vs a utility vs a proc vs a environmental weapon.

No, I do not assume that. My idea is to avoid that all together, but it seems you misunderstood my previous post or something.

My idea is basically that you link Deadly Chill to abilities. It simply links it to the abilities, not to chill. Now, obviously they link it to those abilities with chill, but it’s not directly linked to chilling. It’s a rather simple solution if you want to remove the effect from “random chills”. Not sure why you insist on talking about telling the difference from skill / pro / enviornmental.

You state that it’s simple but as I have said at least twice before: the game doesn’t differentiate chilled between skills, utilities, procs, and environmental weapons. What you’re suggesting is really no different. Whether directly or indirectly, you’re trying to have that trait differentiate chilled between skills and everything else as well as between the skills that have chilled vs those that do not.

There’s precedent for adding ICD’s so we’re more likely to see that. It’s easier to add since other traits have had ICD’s added before as well as food procs. It’s also easier to maintain as everything is contained within that trait and not upon which skills have chill.

I try a third time, as you yet again don’t understand. You keep saying I want the game to differentiate all kinds chill sources, but my idea (as I’ve posted twice) don’t need to. It REALLY isn’t a hard concept to understand, but I’ll try to explain again;

Deathly Chill should add bleeding to SPECIFIC skills, and the skills Anet decides to put it on is those with chill. It’s attached to SKILLS, not CHILL. In case this still isn’t understandable, it’s like this from the games view:

“When Deathly Chill is taken, bleed is added to skill x, y, z, etc.”

The skills x, y, z are some that Anet decide. Now, Anet decides to pick all those skills with chill on it. it doesn’t have ANYTHING to do with chill as far as the game sees it, it’s just Anet that decides to put it on all those skills that have chill.

Rezok.2709:

Ayrilana.1396:

Rezok.2709:

Ayrilana.1396:

Rezok.2709:

Ayrilana.1396:

Justine.6351:

Ayrilana.1396:

Justine.6351:

Ayrilana.1396:

They’ll likely just add an ICD to the trait.

I actually thought this trait was linked to skills that caused chill rather than any chill at all. It would actually probably be easier to balance if the source of chill was limited to that instead of any random chill. Thinking of the difference between a random icd procing chilling bolt combo vs guaranteed 600 chill shouts always procing as extremes.

Except I don’t believe the stacks last all that long so something like 2 seconds may be enough to make it not be so OP.

No,
I mean if you put an icd on it then random procs of things like chilling bolt can make you sadface because it denies you potential 600 aoe 5 target bleed if you cast a chill shout like .5sec after that. I think it would be better to tie chill bleed to the actual skills that cause chill for this reason.

Is there even a precedent to separate a particular condition by whether it’s “random” or not? I don’t recall them having ever separated a condition based on its various sources. It just opens up for too many things that could go wrong.

You seem to look at it as more advanced than it really is. A simple way would just be to make the trait something like:

“Any ability that cause chill now also add x bleeds to the target(s)”

That’s just like the Thief trait “Serpent’s Touch”, which cause stealing to also inflict poison. Only now, instead of just one ability it adds an effect to several (all those that cause chill). This way it will be strictly linked to necro abilities so it won’t work with any “random chills”, and the way to implement it is already used in other traitlines in the game.

Look at it as more advanced? Huh?

Again. You’re assuming that the game differentiates between the sources of chill. As if it can tell if it comes from a skill vs a utility vs a proc vs a environmental weapon.

No, I do not assume that. My idea is to avoid that all together, but it seems you misunderstood my previous post or something.

My idea is basically that you link Deadly Chill to abilities. It simply links it to the abilities, not to chill. Now, obviously they link it to those abilities with chill, but it’s not directly linked to chilling. It’s a rather simple solution if you want to remove the effect from “random chills”. Not sure why you insist on talking about telling the difference from skill / pro / enviornmental.

You state that it’s simple but as I have said at least twice before: the game doesn’t differentiate chilled between skills, utilities, procs, and environmental weapons. What you’re suggesting is really no different. Whether directly or indirectly, you’re trying to have that trait differentiate chilled between skills and everything else as well as between the skills that have chilled vs those that do not.

There’s precedent for adding ICD’s so we’re more likely to see that. It’s easier to add since other traits have had ICD’s added before as well as food procs. It’s also easier to maintain as everything is contained within that trait and not upon which skills have chill.

I try a third time, as you yet again don’t understand. You keep saying I want the game to differentiate all kinds chill sources, but my idea (as I’ve posted twice) don’t need to. It REALLY isn’t a hard concept to understand, but I’ll try to explain again;

Deathly Chill should add bleeding to SPECIFIC skills, and the skills Anet decides to put it on is those with chill. It’s attached to SKILLS, not CHILL. In case this still isn’t understandable, it’s like this from the games view:

“When Deathly Chill is taken, bleed is added to skill x, y, z, etc.”

The skills x, y, z are some that Anet decide. Now, Anet decides to pick all those skills with chill on it. it doesn’t have ANYTHING to do with chill as far as the game sees it, it’s just Anet that decides to put it on all those skills that have chill.

Which is differentiating between sources like I stated in my post. You’re just using specific skills as the “middle-man”.

thank god the devs don’t look at these posts, some of the suggestions here are just terrible.

bearshaman.3421:

Now, I’m not trying to destroy the condi reaper.

You could have fooled me with that suggestion.

Ayrilana.1396:

Rezok.2709:

Ayrilana.1396:

Rezok.2709:

Ayrilana.1396:

Rezok.2709:

Ayrilana.1396:

Justine.6351:

Ayrilana.1396:

Justine.6351:

Ayrilana.1396:

They’ll likely just add an ICD to the trait.

I actually thought this trait was linked to skills that caused chill rather than any chill at all. It would actually probably be easier to balance if the source of chill was limited to that instead of any random chill. Thinking of the difference between a random icd procing chilling bolt combo vs guaranteed 600 chill shouts always procing as extremes.

Except I don’t believe the stacks last all that long so something like 2 seconds may be enough to make it not be so OP.

No,
I mean if you put an icd on it then random procs of things like chilling bolt can make you sadface because it denies you potential 600 aoe 5 target bleed if you cast a chill shout like .5sec after that. I think it would be better to tie chill bleed to the actual skills that cause chill for this reason.

Is there even a precedent to separate a particular condition by whether it’s “random” or not? I don’t recall them having ever separated a condition based on its various sources. It just opens up for too many things that could go wrong.

You seem to look at it as more advanced than it really is. A simple way would just be to make the trait something like:

“Any ability that cause chill now also add x bleeds to the target(s)”

That’s just like the Thief trait “Serpent’s Touch”, which cause stealing to also inflict poison. Only now, instead of just one ability it adds an effect to several (all those that cause chill). This way it will be strictly linked to necro abilities so it won’t work with any “random chills”, and the way to implement it is already used in other traitlines in the game.

Look at it as more advanced? Huh?

Again. You’re assuming that the game differentiates between the sources of chill. As if it can tell if it comes from a skill vs a utility vs a proc vs a environmental weapon.

No, I do not assume that. My idea is to avoid that all together, but it seems you misunderstood my previous post or something.

My idea is basically that you link Deadly Chill to abilities. It simply links it to the abilities, not to chill. Now, obviously they link it to those abilities with chill, but it’s not directly linked to chilling. It’s a rather simple solution if you want to remove the effect from “random chills”. Not sure why you insist on talking about telling the difference from skill / pro / enviornmental.

You state that it’s simple but as I have said at least twice before: the game doesn’t differentiate chilled between skills, utilities, procs, and environmental weapons. What you’re suggesting is really no different. Whether directly or indirectly, you’re trying to have that trait differentiate chilled between skills and everything else as well as between the skills that have chilled vs those that do not.

There’s precedent for adding ICD’s so we’re more likely to see that. It’s easier to add since other traits have had ICD’s added before as well as food procs. It’s also easier to maintain as everything is contained within that trait and not upon which skills have chill.

I try a third time, as you yet again don’t understand. You keep saying I want the game to differentiate all kinds chill sources, but my idea (as I’ve posted twice) don’t need to. It REALLY isn’t a hard concept to understand, but I’ll try to explain again;

Deathly Chill should add bleeding to SPECIFIC skills, and the skills Anet decides to put it on is those with chill. It’s attached to SKILLS, not CHILL. In case this still isn’t understandable, it’s like this from the games view:

“When Deathly Chill is taken, bleed is added to skill x, y, z, etc.”

The skills x, y, z are some that Anet decide. Now, Anet decides to pick all those skills with chill on it. it doesn’t have ANYTHING to do with chill as far as the game sees it, it’s just Anet that decides to put it on all those skills that have chill.

Which is differentiating between sources like I stated in my post. You’re just using specific skills as the “middle-man”.

You say the game can’t differentiate between sources and my solution doesn’t HAVE to differentiate. In my solution it has nothing direct to do with chill as far as the game sees it.

But it seems you just don’t understand it (or don’t want to admit it). Either case you are either too arogant to discuss with or you got no idea about how the game actually works – in both cases I think this discussion is at an end.

Rezok.2709:

Ayrilana.1396:

Rezok.2709:

Ayrilana.1396:

Rezok.2709:

Ayrilana.1396:

Rezok.2709:

Ayrilana.1396:

Justine.6351:

Ayrilana.1396:

Justine.6351:

Ayrilana.1396:

They’ll likely just add an ICD to the trait.

.

.

Is there even a precedent to separate a particular condition by whether it’s “random” or not? I don’t recall them having ever separated a condition based on its various sources. It just opens up for too many things that could go wrong.

You seem to look at it as more advanced than it really is. A simple way would just be to make the trait something like:

“Any ability that cause chill now also add x bleeds to the target(s)”

That’s just like the Thief trait “Serpent’s Touch”, which cause stealing to also inflict poison. Only now, instead of just one ability it adds an effect to several (all those that cause chill). This way it will be strictly linked to necro abilities so it won’t work with any “random chills”, and the way to implement it is already used in other traitlines in the game.

Look at it as more advanced? Huh?

Again. You’re assuming that the game differentiates between the sources of chill. As if it can tell if it comes from a skill vs a utility vs a proc vs a environmental weapon.

No, I do not assume that. My idea is to avoid that all together, but it seems you misunderstood my previous post or something.

My idea is basically that you link Deadly Chill to abilities. It simply links it to the abilities, not to chill. Now, obviously they link it to those abilities with chill, but it’s not directly linked to chilling. It’s a rather simple solution if you want to remove the effect from “random chills”. Not sure why you insist on talking about telling the difference from skill / pro / enviornmental.

You state that it’s simple but as I have said at least twice before: the game doesn’t differentiate chilled between skills, utilities, procs, and environmental weapons. What you’re suggesting is really no different. Whether directly or indirectly, you’re trying to have that trait differentiate chilled between skills and everything else as well as between the skills that have chilled vs those that do not.

There’s precedent for adding ICD’s so we’re more likely to see that. It’s easier to add since other traits have had ICD’s added before as well as food procs. It’s also easier to maintain as everything is contained within that trait and not upon which skills have chill.

I try a third time, as you yet again don’t understand. You keep saying I want the game to differentiate all kinds chill sources, but my idea (as I’ve posted twice) don’t need to. It REALLY isn’t a hard concept to understand, but I’ll try to explain again;

Deathly Chill should add bleeding to SPECIFIC skills, and the skills Anet decides to put it on is those with chill. It’s attached to SKILLS, not CHILL. In case this still isn’t understandable, it’s like this from the games view:

“When Deathly Chill is taken, bleed is added to skill x, y, z, etc.”

The skills x, y, z are some that Anet decide. Now, Anet decides to pick all those skills with chill on it. it doesn’t have ANYTHING to do with chill as far as the game sees it, it’s just Anet that decides to put it on all those skills that have chill.

Which is differentiating between sources like I stated in my post. You’re just using specific skills as the “middle-man”.

You say the game can’t differentiate between sources and my solution doesn’t HAVE to differentiate. In my solution it has nothing direct to do with chill as far as the game sees it.

But it seems you just don’t understand it (or don’t want to admit it). Either case you are either too arogant to discuss with or you got no idea about how the game actually works – in both cases I think this discussion is at an end.

Im not saying that it can’t because it can do just that if Anet programs it to. It’s just that no trait currently does what you’re claiming and it only add more work.

You are trying to differentiate which I pointed out by holding various parts of your post. I even addressed the part about direct. I think you know full well what I’m saying as you keep mentioning “direct”. Choosing which weapon skills that deathly chills applies to is no different than choosing which sources of chill that the it applies to. The only difference is that the former is doing it indirectly. The end result is the same.