http://strawpoll.me/3648686/r Queue for PvP from any map. Vote Here. Zojoel [ASAP Zerg]
That Moment When You Realize....
Don’t guardians lose their default F-skills as well ?
Personally, I think it’s fine.
The only thing I hope is that DS gets a bit of love so that it’s not by default much weaker than reaper shroud. It doesn’t have to be equal, a bit weaker is fine with me; it’s a safer choice and you get it without having to spec into the Reaper traitline.
(edited by Nyth.3492)
Guardians get the same passives but the active effects of their virtues are drastically different, essentially turning them into completely different abilities the same way Signet of Spite and Bane Signet are different abilities with different functions despite having the same passive effect.
That being said, I think it’s fine. At least last BWE, I had no problems with only having Reaper Shroud available. It also keeps Reaper from encroaching onto the long range/backline territory of base Necromancer.
Promoting build diversity but restricting new weapons to a single trait line, and forcing that trait line down our throat, reducing diversity even more. And don’t they dare say they reduce possibilities to simplify balance, because they clearly doesn’t give a catnip about balance: enjoy 4 more months of d/d ele meta.
I don’t care about PvE, but I’m really curious about that “challenging content”, because all they ever did since a year or 2 is dumbing down the game.
I don’t put much hope in Blade & Soul to do PvP better than GW2 either, so I’m more and more desperate… Help !!
Balance team is a bunch of clowns, hurting the game to the full extent of their abilities.
I don’t put much hope in Blade & Soul to do PvP better than GW2 either, so I’m more and more desperate… Help !!
aside the 1v1 and 3v3 arena(dunno if it has another mode), B&S has open world faction pvp(both factions are in the same map, and not in different map/location like Aion), and you can pvp even inside cities and fight with both players and guards. in order to pvp you have to wear your faction dobok/outfit and your opponent wear the opposite faction dobok ofc. it also has 1-2 maps that are free pvp without having to wear faction dobok. everyone is enemy, even your own faction. B&S has potential for epic small-large scale pvp fights all over the place. West players love pvp, so i hope that B&S players will wear their faction dobok so that we can pvp to our hearts content. how pvp will go is depending on players alone
I think that the mechanics of the different professions are too different to make such a direct comparison. We get five extra skills when we go into shroud – this is the amount of skills you get on a weapon, and some of them are really potent. The guardian also had quite a lot of special skills, 3, and they got changed.
Warrior gets an alteration of the burst it already has (1 skill/set).
Herald gets 1 more ability.
Chronomancer gets 1 more ability.
Tempest does get 4 new abilities, but they have a really really heavy opportunity cost associated with them.
I much rather getting a brand new shroud rather than getting a new, 6th shroud skill. while the rest remain the same.
Unless engineers get 10 toolbelt skills with their elite spec, I do not feel like our request is valid. More to the point, our reaper traitline is quite powerful in some regards, mainly by the virtue of being focused towards providing us with the ability to be a melee brawler. I believe that if we kept both shrouds, the potency of the traitline would be toned down to account for it.
All in all – do not focus too much on the “f” button and think about overall functionality. The reaper, as far as I am concerned, will be much more fun and satisfying to play if it is its own thing, rather than getting access to the default shroud.
I think that the mechanics of the different professions are too different to make such a direct comparison. We get five extra skills when we go into shroud – this is the amount of skills you get on a weapon, and some of them are really potent. The guardian also had quite a lot of special skills, 3, and they got changed.
Warrior gets an alteration of the burst it already has (1 skill/set).
Herald gets 1 more ability.
Chronomancer gets 1 more ability.
Tempest does get 4 new abilities, but they have a really really heavy opportunity cost associated with them.
I much rather getting a brand new shroud rather than getting a new, 6th shroud skill. while the rest remain the same.
Unless engineers get 10 toolbelt skills with their elite spec, I do not feel like our request is valid. More to the point, our reaper traitline is quite powerful in some regards, mainly by the virtue of being focused towards providing us with the ability to be a melee brawler. I believe that if we kept both shrouds, the potency of the traitline would be toned down to account for it.
All in all – do not focus too much on the “f” button and think about overall functionality. The reaper, as far as I am concerned, will be much more fun and satisfying to play if it is its own thing, rather than getting access to the default shroud.
I agree that having both shrouds would not be the best solution, since it would pressure all necros to trait reaper…just to have full functionality out of shroud. I don’t agree that we get “5 extra skills”…solely because the reality is that we get 5 skills temporarily in exchange for temporarily losing all 10 of our previous skills. That is a distinction that I feel is important to remember. No other profession loses all of their existing skills just to use their profession mechanic. The closest would be engineers…but even they get to still use their utilities when using a kit. Everyone gets to use their profession mechanic, in addition/simultaneously, to the existing functionality…except necromancers/reapers. On top of that, they appear to be content/determined to leave shroud as a dps loss compared to a weapon auto attack. All this negative…in exchange for some extra temporary hp?!? I’d rather not have the extra hp and just have functionality like every other profession. Its that moment when you realize that we are still getting the shaft.
I think that the mechanics of the different professions are too different to make such a direct comparison. We get five extra skills when we go into shroud – this is the amount of skills you get on a weapon, and some of them are really potent. The guardian also had quite a lot of special skills, 3, and they got changed.
Warrior gets an alteration of the burst it already has (1 skill/set).
Herald gets 1 more ability.
Chronomancer gets 1 more ability.
Tempest does get 4 new abilities, but they have a really really heavy opportunity cost associated with them.
I much rather getting a brand new shroud rather than getting a new, 6th shroud skill. while the rest remain the same.
Unless engineers get 10 toolbelt skills with their elite spec, I do not feel like our request is valid. More to the point, our reaper traitline is quite powerful in some regards, mainly by the virtue of being focused towards providing us with the ability to be a melee brawler. I believe that if we kept both shrouds, the potency of the traitline would be toned down to account for it.
All in all – do not focus too much on the “f” button and think about overall functionality. The reaper, as far as I am concerned, will be much more fun and satisfying to play if it is its own thing, rather than getting access to the default shroud.
I agree that having both shrouds would not be the best solution, since it would pressure all necros to trait reaper…just to have full functionality out of shroud. I don’t agree that we get “5 extra skills”…solely because the reality is that we get 5 skills temporarily in exchange for temporarily losing all 10 of our previous skills. That is a distinction that I feel is important to remember. No other profession loses all of their existing skills just to use their profession mechanic. The closest would be engineers…but even they get to still use their utilities when using a kit. Everyone gets to use their profession mechanic, in addition/simultaneously, to the existing functionality…except necromancers/reapers. On top of that, they appear to be content/determined to leave shroud as a dps loss compared to a weapon auto attack. All this negative…in exchange for some extra temporary hp?!? I’d rather not have the extra hp and just have functionality like every other profession. Its that moment when you realize that we are still getting the shaft.
You do not “lose” your other weapon when you weapon swap. Its skills are still right there, with their cooldowns ticking down. Yes, we lose access to out utilities but, to be honest, shroud, especially on reaper, is kind of worth it. The tools it provides us with are quite powerful and useful in many situations, and the extra HP is exactly what we need to be capable of sustaining ourselves as a melee brawler.
Whether or not people are satisfied with the numbers provided by the abilities of our profession mechanic is an entirely different topic – and it has been and still is being extensively discussed in multiple other threads. I understand that the fact that some of the other classes just get extra things added to their profession mechanic might be a little annoying to some, though people need to realize that there is more to a class than the number of “f” skills it can press. I prefer getting nice and diverse traits, utilities and weapon skills instead, which is what the Reaper dev team, with the guidance of the necromancer community, has been working on since last beta. If the update notes Robert posted do not get you excited for Reaper, I do not know what will.
I think that the mechanics of the different professions are too different to make such a direct comparison. We get five extra skills when we go into shroud – this is the amount of skills you get on a weapon, and some of them are really potent. The guardian also had quite a lot of special skills, 3, and they got changed.
Warrior gets an alteration of the burst it already has (1 skill/set).
Herald gets 1 more ability.
Chronomancer gets 1 more ability.
Tempest does get 4 new abilities, but they have a really really heavy opportunity cost associated with them.
I much rather getting a brand new shroud rather than getting a new, 6th shroud skill. while the rest remain the same.
Unless engineers get 10 toolbelt skills with their elite spec, I do not feel like our request is valid. More to the point, our reaper traitline is quite powerful in some regards, mainly by the virtue of being focused towards providing us with the ability to be a melee brawler. I believe that if we kept both shrouds, the potency of the traitline would be toned down to account for it.
All in all – do not focus too much on the “f” button and think about overall functionality. The reaper, as far as I am concerned, will be much more fun and satisfying to play if it is its own thing, rather than getting access to the default shroud.
I agree that having both shrouds would not be the best solution, since it would pressure all necros to trait reaper…just to have full functionality out of shroud. I don’t agree that we get “5 extra skills”…solely because the reality is that we get 5 skills temporarily in exchange for temporarily losing all 10 of our previous skills. That is a distinction that I feel is important to remember. No other profession loses all of their existing skills just to use their profession mechanic. The closest would be engineers…but even they get to still use their utilities when using a kit. Everyone gets to use their profession mechanic, in addition/simultaneously, to the existing functionality…except necromancers/reapers. On top of that, they appear to be content/determined to leave shroud as a dps loss compared to a weapon auto attack. All this negative…in exchange for some extra temporary hp?!? I’d rather not have the extra hp and just have functionality like every other profession. Its that moment when you realize that we are still getting the shaft.
You do not “lose” your other weapon when you weapon swap. Its skills are still right there, with their cooldowns ticking down. Yes, we lose access to out utilities but, to be honest, shroud, especially on reaper, is kind of worth it. The tools it provides us with are quite powerful and useful in many situations, and the extra HP is exactly what we need to be capable of sustaining ourselves as a melee brawler.
Whether or not people are satisfied with the numbers provided by the abilities of our profession mechanic is an entirely different topic – and it has been and still is being extensively discussed in multiple other threads. I understand that the fact that some of the other classes just get extra things added to their profession mechanic might be a little annoying to some, though people need to realize that there is more to a class than the number of “f” skills it can press. I prefer getting nice and diverse traits, utilities and weapon skills instead, which is what the Reaper dev team, with the guidance of the necromancer community, has been working on since last beta. If the update notes Robert posted do not get you excited for Reaper, I do not know what will.
The answer to “what will” get me excited for the reaper would me mechanics that work and are reliable. It has been proven in many games, including this one, that hp sponges are not the equal of classes that can avoid damage altogether. Extra hp will never be the equal of an outright block, reflect, or evade. What would work is damage reduction, but there is only so much of that they can give and not realize all of their fears about buffing shroud…immortality.
I would also love diverse traits, utilities, and weapon skills. Point me to where our effective traits are diverse? I see duplicated traits all giving miniscule amounts of the exact same thing….vulnerability, critical chance, chill, might, and poison. They are duplicated so much, that if you took them all…you would have extreme overkill beyond them actually having any additional effect. These things also reach a certain level of redundancy in a group situation….as you can undoubtedly expect most of these things to already be present…to a significant degree…by other classes. Utilities are definitely a sore point, as previously stated, since we get locked out of them anytime we use our class mechanic. We do have decent weapon skills and I do like shroud abilities….I’m just beyond the fence (no longer on the fence) about the benefits of even using shroud for anything more than face tanking some damage briefly. This is a numbers issue on that part…just like you said. I just feel strongly that using your class mechanic should be more of a bonus than just face tanking for a few seconds…it should definitely be an upgrade over just using your weapon skills and ignoring our class mechanic altogether. It should also be better than just a third weapon swap….that blocks us from our utilities and any external heals from our group.
I am extremely beyond worrying about the number of “f” keys we get. I am on the side of those saying no to multiple shrouds in one build. We just need a decent power ranged weapon in my opinion.
I agree that having both shrouds would not be the best solution, since it would pressure all necros to trait reaper…just to have full functionality out of shroud
adding both shrouds would pressure Necros to choose Reaper? have you ever realized that majority of Necros(i can easily say 99%) will choose Reaper specialization on their own? one guy in youtube said: i will make Necro only for the Reaper. i’ve seen lot of pvp videos and people get Reaper specialization just to use RS and shouts. they don’t use greatsword cause they know that it’s horrible, cause the cast times drags you back
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Nowhere did I say that all our problems will be suddenly solved soon, and, to be honest, many of your complaints come down to personal issues and opinion. I, however, fully agree that we need a decent ranged power weapon. I hope the axe rework turns out fine.
I agree that having both shrouds would not be the best solution, since it would pressure all necros to trait reaper…just to have full functionality out of shroud
adding both shrouds would pressure Necros to choose Reaper? have you ever realized that majority of Necros(i can easily say 99%) will choose Reaper specialization on their own? one guy in youtube said: i will make Necro only for the Reaper. i’ve seen lot of pvp videos and people get Reaper specialization just to use RS and shouts. they don’t use greatsword cause they know that it’s horrible, cause the cast times drags you back
Are you saying that since people will choose reaper anyway, we should make it even more appealing than base necro, rather than fixing base necro issues? I disagree.
I agree that having both shrouds would not be the best solution, since it would pressure all necros to trait reaper…just to have full functionality out of shroud
adding both shrouds would pressure Necros to choose Reaper? have you ever realized that majority of Necros(i can easily say 99%) will choose Reaper specialization on their own? one guy in youtube said: i will make Necro only for the Reaper. i’ve seen lot of pvp videos and people get Reaper specialization just to use RS and shouts. they don’t use greatsword cause they know that it’s horrible, cause the cast times drags you back
Ok, first…that 99% just came out of your kitten because you can’t possibly know that. I say that even though I am one of those people that just re-made a necro specifically to play reaper. I had deleted my necro a long time ago. This new necro will be sitting idle until the moment I can make it a reaper. That does not invalidate the argument that others have already posted on these same forums expressing that concern about not wanting to be pressured into choosing reaper…expressly because of the possibility of having both shroud forms by doing so. It doesn’t take a genius to see the logic behind this. Take reaper…have both shrouds…be complete. Don’t take reaper…have one shroud…not be complete…have groups boot them for not going reaper shroud when in melee. I’ll admit right away, once HoT is live, the only necros I’ll willingly do pve groups with are going to be reapers. I have a melee bias. All my characters are built to melee because it is the most effective way to do group pve. I guess I should have prefaced my reply with “pve”, but I’m of the impression that reapers are going to get shredded in pvp anyway.
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Nowhere did I say that all our problems will be suddenly solved soon, and, to be honest, many of your complaints come down to personal issues and opinion. I, however, fully agree that we need a decent ranged power weapon. I hope the axe rework turns out fine.
What forum post does not boil down to personal issues and opinions…including your own? I’m pretty sure I supported everything I said with factual information as well. I see no problem with that, unless there is something I said that was inaccurate?
What forum post does not boil down to personal issues and opinions…including your own? I’m pretty sure I supported everything I said with factual information as well. I see no problem with that, unless there is something I said that was inaccurate?
Inaccurate? No. Not exactly. Just disputable. While it is true that the purpose of a forum is to share opinions, I just got the impression that your problems with the class.. are the entire class. Do you like necromancer for anything except for theme? It is an honest question.
What forum post does not boil down to personal issues and opinions…including your own? I’m pretty sure I supported everything I said with factual information as well. I see no problem with that, unless there is something I said that was inaccurate?
Inaccurate? No. Not exactly. Just disputable. While it is true that the purpose of a forum is to share opinions, I just got the impression that your problems with the class.. are the entire class. Do you like necromancer for anything except for theme? It is an honest question.
The answer is no…at this point. The theme is currently the only thing really good about the class. However your question is a very misleading one since the theme of a class is usually the primary reason a player picks that particular class. I guess you could say the mechanics are another reason…but that is also part of the theme. I guess you are trying to set up a line of questioning to make it sound like I should pick a different class…instead of pointing out glaring problems with this one that should be fixed…so that it actually competes in games modes where it is currently failing to perform. Since I currently have 3 other 80s that I rotate between, I’d much rather also keep this one…while providing feedback on how to actually make it a competitive and functional alternative to other professions that are in the pve meta. I do like the theme of this profession…which is why I keep coming back to it. I’d dare to say that there are a lot of people like me, who really want to like this profession…but just hate how it under performs in pve…hence the comments from the earlier person about people rolling necro just to play reaper.
The only thing actually holding this profession back is the flawed concept of the class mechanic….which in turn has had a cascading effect on everything else about it. The attrition based concept, where the class gets a hp buffer as its primary defense, has never been successful in pve because it under performs the alternatives, and as such…has never been accepted due to players recognizing this under performance. The entire game has been designed around active defenses, and with good reason since there is no traditional trinity in GW2. Hp sponges + damage reduction are a throw back to trinity games with tanks+dedicated healers with long drawn out fights that make ramp up dps viable. That’s why every other profession in this game…that fit into the pve meta…are based on active defenses with burst and sustained dps. Even mesmers can get off some decent dps relatively quickly in pve + they have excellent party utility. As long as we have this hp buffer attached to our class mechanic, the devs are going to stick to their huge list of restrictions (no utilities in shroud, no external healing while in shroud, no active healing while in shroud, weak damage while in shroud, no blocks/invlulns/evades/vigor), because they believe that extra hp really compensates for all of these restrictions.
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I play the class primarily in PvP, where its flavour and specific strengths work towards providing an unique playstyle not currently avilable to any other class. Mind you, prior to the specializations update our state was rather poor, but right now between the unique support of blood magic and the heavy debuffer capabilities of signet necro, our viability is better than it has been since the Dhuumfire nerf galore.
We have been in a great spot for WvW for a while now, so I do not have any complaints there either. The ranged AoE capabilities we have have allowed us to remain a meta class.
Now, the elephant in the room PvE. I have mixed feelings about this mode. The main issue I have with it is that it promotes super glass-canon builds and requires no investment in survivability. The issue is, that our class has a ton of survivability by default, and we are lacking a bit in the damage department. I understand why you dislike our “damage sponge” mechanic and think that the class is fundamentally flawed by the virtue of not being another DPS spam profession. But, to be honest, I really enjoy the tools we have when it comes to other game modes.. Even though we are rumoured to be kitten in PvE, outside of organized hardcore speedclear groups, you will barely notice the difference if you take a necromancer over a DPS guardian or warrior. Our state is not that dire, and the way I see it, making us more like other classes, and us becoming just a dark mage themed warrior, is not desirable.
I might be biased since the game mode we are the most lacking is is the game mode I am not that heavily invested in, but all in all I think that what it comes down to is not issues with the class, its mechanics and capabilities, but with the structure of dungeons and PvE content in GW2. I hope this gets redeemed to a certain point in HoT, but I am not holding my breath for it.
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I play the class primarily in PvP, where its flavour and specific strengths work towards providing an unique playstyle not currently avilable to any other class. Mind you, prior to the specializations update our state was rather poor, but right now between the unique support of blood magic and the heavy debuffer capabilities of signet necro, our viability is better than it has been since the Dhuumfire nerf galore.
We have been in a great spot for WvW for a while now, so I do not have any complaints there either. The ranged AoE capabilities we have have allowed us to remain a meta class.
Now, the elephant in the room PvE. I have mixed feelings about this mode. The main issue I have with it is that it promotes super glass-canon builds and requires no investment in survivability. The issue is, that our class has a ton of survivability by default, and we are lacking a bit in the damage department. I understand why you dislike our “damage sponge” mechanic and think that the class is fundamentally flawed by the virtue of not being another DPS spam profession. But, to be honest, I really enjoy the tools we have when it comes to other game modes.. Even though we are rumoured to be kitten in PvE, outside of organized hardcore speedclear groups, you will barely notice the difference if you take a necromancer over a DPS guardian or warrior. Our state is not that dire, and the way I see it, making us more like other classes, and us becoming just a dark mage themed warrior, is not desirable.
I might be biased since the game mode we are the most lacking is is the game mode I am not that heavily invested in, but all in all I think that what it comes down to is not issues with the class, its mechanics and capabilities, but with the structure of dungeons and PvE content in GW2. I hope this gets redeemed to a certain point in HoT, but I am not holding my breath for it.
I can totally respect this perspective. I just wish there was a compromise for this, like with other professions. I think the reaper was supposed to be this compromise, which is really all that I’m getting at…since they are on the cusp of bringing that to fruition.
IMO that’s exactly how it should be, but aside from that guards lose theirs too, and we haven’t seen all the elite specs yet so it’s too soon to make such general remarks.