Guild Wars 2

JonathanSharp.7094:

So, we do read the forums.

Right now we’re thinking this ability will go back to being unblockable, as will Currupt Boons. We still want you to need LOS to your target, however. We want these skills to have fun back/forth play on them, while being fair for both sides (the attacker and defender). Keep in mind, these abilities can still be evaded.

And thanks for all the constructive debate in here, great job!

It is a start and step in the right direction, but will it undo the damage that has been done? Will we get any other updates to Necro to make us more viable in WvW? Will Necro ever get to a point where it isn’t the least played profession?

Only time will tell and I hope that answers come for the above in positive aspects. :/

At any rate at least this is some demonstration we aren’t forgotten and I appreciate it.

Omg, a dev on this forum. Combined with the skill split, now I have some hope of necro rework.

JonathanSharp.7094:

So, we do read the forums.

Right now we’re thinking this ability will go back to being unblockable, as will Currupt Boons. We still want you to need LOS to your target, however. We want these skills to have fun back/forth play on them, while being fair for both sides (the attacker and defender). Keep in mind, these abilities can still be evaded.

And thanks for all the constructive debate in here, great job!

Corrupt Boon being unblockable and not being blocked by Aegis would be a dream come true for most Necromancers.

JonathanSharp.7094:

So, we do read the forums.

Right now we’re thinking this ability will go back to being unblockable, as will Currupt Boons. We still want you to need LOS to your target, however. We want these skills to have fun back/forth play on them, while being fair for both sides (the attacker and defender). Keep in mind, these abilities can still be evaded.

And thanks for all the constructive debate in here, great job!

Corrupt boon unblockable… that would be a major improvement towards the stabilization of the metagame. It might not seem like much but… some of us knows what it means.

Also can we please get swap weapon in DS ? Ever since it was removed the chain skill combos just feel like they are segmented somehow. I keep trying to change weapon in DS so when i’m out i can continue… I don’t believe it will overpower us or give us too much of an advantage, but it will make it more comfortable to play…

Also, hell yeah! Unblockable corrupt boon would be awesome!

The non-LOS of epidemic was really overpowered, the only issue I have with it or with any skill that needs los is:
LOS means “line of sight to their feet”. If someone is standing clearly visible on a ledge or a wall and you can see everything from the knee up, skills will be “obstructed”. Same thing when you stand on top of a wall, this 2 inch high step prevents any skills from reaching you or getting from you to the people standing below.
I don’t expect this to change, it’s just one of those weird things…

[Quote removed by Moderator]

Ascii.9726:

Corrupt Boon being unblockable and not being blocked by Aegis would be a dream come true for most Necromancers.

Does this still happen? I remember a patch (I think last October or November!) that explicitly noted corrupt boon should now rip aegis instead of getting blocked by it.

Softspoken.2410:

Ascii.9726:

Corrupt Boon being unblockable and not being blocked by Aegis would be a dream come true for most Necromancers.

Does this still happen? I remember a patch (I think last October or November!) that explicitly noted corrupt boon should now rip aegis instead of getting blocked by it.

As do I. In fact, I distinctly remember converting Aegis into burning yesterday in tPvP. Perhaps he is referring to other block effects such as shield block/gear shield which still do block corrupt boon. I never found these blocking abilities to be an issue. Just the random misses and general failure of the skills to function due to the inherent problems with projectile skills that require you to face your target.

I believe he is referring to like that irritating engineer block, and other full blocks that are not aegis. Aegis has been converting for me on the occasions I use it fairly regularly.

Thrilled we got a dev post though. Any step towards restoring the old functionality is good, but I would say on the whole, in wvw this accounts for a rather small number of failures. We already have to contend with the long cast time, Los, and hitting them before they cleanse or go down.

I am fine with all of this, and while i fully support letting corrupt boon be dodgable, I don’t think it is something that should effect epi. The skill already does nothing to the target as is. I would much prefer the targets around the epidemic target being able to dodge the spread rather than preventing the activation.

I wish i had the data feed on when and how epidemic fails in wvw, but I would say that the vast majority are from players going down and dodges. My request is to put it back the way it was, but allow blocks, immunities, dodges to prevent the spread. Los fix on it was fine though, that was overdue.

I prefer that because it puts the responsibility of avoiding the conditions on you, and not some up level ranger who overextended guaranteeing you get a copy of his joyful debuffs.

Anyhow thanks for the update!

Can it cast faster?

I dunno, I have targeted guardians, watched them hit “save yourself”, then I hit corrupt boon and nothing happen. Skill goes on cooldown, the guardian was not rolling away. CB just did not work. And this happens all the time. If I auto attack a few times then hit CB it works.

Tyr.5912:

I dunno, I have targeted guardians, watched them hit “save yourself”, then I hit corrupt boon and nothing happen. Skill goes on cooldown, the guardian was not rolling away. CB just did not work. And this happens all the time. If I auto attack a few times then hit CB it works.

That wasn’t Aegis blocking it. That was just the skill failing to work, which happens often enough.

Did he have any blocking abilities up like focus 5 or using his heal that blocks? Those i beleive can(and should) block CB. Auto’ing a few timea to remove or wait out the blocking duration might be why it seems to work more often when that happens.

Bryker.5719:

Did he have any blocking abilities up like focus 5 or using his heal that blocks? Those i beleive can(and should) block CB. Auto’ing a few timea to remove or wait out the blocking duration might be why it seems to work more often when that happens.

No thats not what blocks it nothing actually blocks it besides horrible los mechanic. As someone pointed out los needs a clear line to targets feet so god forbid theres a tiny almost invisible bump and you will not hit anything. The whole invisible projectile mechanic for me ends up being bigger nuisance then blocking ever could be.

Oh yeah Gibby I do agree that if you have no idea what your talking about you shouldnt talk… so do be so kind enough as to follow your own advice <3

question: why should it be unblockable?
OP skill, imo
does respect the 5 targets max rule ???
not to mentioned that 15 sec CD is an awful LOW cooldown for such a powerful skill (almost spamable), none of my thief utilities have lower than 30 seconds !

AND if traited epidemic goes down to 12 seconds … ahaha… OP is OP and you can’t deny it

one of the reasons a necro collects 2 times more lootbags than me daggerstorming the middle of the enemy zerg ! :P

I do not want to create another topic. Therefor i`m typing my question in here:

Why does epidemic have a different cast time underwater? The cast time underwater has a total time of 0.5 s while it is 1.0 otherwise.

During big battles / zergs this 1.0s can be very very long, so that my skill often activates after my target died. Does anyone else got similar problems?

@DanH.5879 Your knowledge about this skill is spot on! clearly you must have alot of experience with it.

You just wave your scepter 2-3 times and spread the 25bleed stacks instantly and the loot bags are raining all over.

Anyway you should try it yourself, im sure it works as awesome as you say.

@Axiom.6490 All classes have different cast time underwater most is 50% faster. But yeah casttime on epidemic is bigger reason for it to fail / miss / spread nothing than being blocked.

DanH.5879:

question: why should it be unblockable?
OP skill, imo
does respect the 5 targets max rule ???
not to mentioned that 15 sec CD is an awful LOW cooldown for such a powerful skill (almost spamable), none of my thief utilities have lower than 30 seconds !

AND if traited epidemic goes down to 12 seconds … ahaha… OP is OP and you can’t deny it

one of the reasons a necro collects 2 times more lootbags than me daggerstorming the middle of the enemy zerg ! :P

Do you have any comprehension of how difficult it is to get a solid epidemic on a solid stack? So many things have to go right, they could block it, dodge it, clean the conditions as you’re putting it on them, stealth while you’re doing it (Cleaning them while stealthed, a real OP capability imo), or you could be interrupted, and that is just trying to land the SKILL. Trying to stack enough conditions to make it worthwhile to use is something completely different, and in a 1v1 situation, it’s a wasted slot against most classes.

it is funny how you try to defend your skill that literally melts a whole zerg
that’s how i get 5-10++ conditions at 1 time ! some random necro spamming epidemic

step.1. get 2 mesmers ,1 ele, and 2 necros
step.2 spam condtions on 1 guy (lots of confusions,chill/bleed etc.)
step.3 necros assist puting epidemic on that one guy
step.4 all zerg is full of conditions, all zerg having 6+ confusion stacks, bleeds, burns etc. etc.)
step.5 collect lootbags from all

funny, funny

DanH.5879:

it is funny how you try to defend your skill that literally melts a whole zerg
that’s how i get 5-10++ conditions at 1 time ! some random necro spamming epidemic

step.1. get 2 mesmers ,1 ele, and 2 necros
step.2 spam condtions on 1 guy (lots of confusions,chill/bleed etc.)
step.3 necros assist puting epidemic on that one guy
step.4 all zerg is full of conditions, all zerg having 6+ confusion stacks, bleeds, burns etc. etc.)
step.5 collect lootbags from all

funny, funny

Let me guess… You’re a thief that likes his 2 button a little too much?

Here’s a fun task for you:

1) Make a Condition Necromancer
2) Find a group with the cooperation and organization that you posted above
3) Go into a tournament against a good competitive guild
4) Find someone that doesn’t have any solid condition removal (Impossible.)
5) Try your epidemic strategy.

See how often it works.

I have difficulty keeping 3 conditions on a good group, let alone what you think is possible. Ah, but you must play bad players. Well in that case, anything is overpowered when you’re fighting bad players. Blood is Power when specced properly is a 50 second bleed that will kill you if you don’t cure it. I suppose that’s OP too if they don’t cure it and die.

Axiom.6490:

I do not want to create another topic. Therefor i`m typing my question in here:

Why does epidemic have a different cast time underwater? The cast time underwater has a total time of 0.5 s while it is 1.0 otherwise.

During big battles / zergs this 1.0s can be very very long, so that my skill often activates after my target died. Does anyone else got similar problems?

Yes it is a half a second cast under water as well as other skills underwater (not just necromancers either). For example rez signet is half the cast time as well, it is only a 1 second cast while under water, you can be kinda sneaky with it as well if you want :P

Thanks for all your replays. I still hope, that our cast time on epidemic will be reduced a little bit. Maybe a 3/4 s would be a goog compromis. 0.5 s would be too strong

DanH.5879:

it is funny how you try to defend your skill that literally melts a whole zerg
that’s how i get 5-10++ conditions at 1 time ! some random necro spamming epidemic

step.1. get 2 mesmers ,1 ele, and 2 necros
step.2 spam condtions on 1 guy (lots of confusions,chill/bleed etc.)
step.3 necros assist puting epidemic on that one guy
step.4 all zerg is full of conditions, all zerg having 6+ confusion stacks, bleeds, burns etc. etc.)
step.5 collect lootbags from all

funny, funny

lol do you even play a necromancer?
Havn’t we all heard the story of the 2 necros who “literally melted a whole zerg” …with a 5-target aoe limit xD

Here’s how your scenario would really play out:
step.1. get 2 mesmers ,1 ele, and 2 necros
step.2 spam condtions on 1 guy (lots of confusions,chill/bleed etc.)
step.3 30-man zerg rolls over your little group
step.4 shameful respawn

I’m currently in an argument on Mesmer profession about how many of them would quit if they put a cooldown on their clone-dodge… (Equivalent of our 10 second Mark of Evasion). They actually think Mesmer is underpowered and needs buffs, while Necromancer is high tier.

flow.6043:

DanH.5879:

it is funny how you try to defend your skill that literally melts a whole zerg
that’s how i get 5-10++ conditions at 1 time ! some random necro spamming epidemic

step.1. get 2 mesmers ,1 ele, and 2 necros
step.2 spam condtions on 1 guy (lots of confusions,chill/bleed etc.)
step.3 necros assist puting epidemic on that one guy
step.4 all zerg is full of conditions, all zerg having 6+ confusion stacks, bleeds, burns etc. etc.)
step.5 collect lootbags from all

funny, funny

lol do you even play a necromancer?
Havn’t we all heard the story of the 2 necros who “literally melted a whole zerg” …with a 5-target aoe limit xD

Here’s how your scenario would really play out:
step.1. get 2 mesmers ,1 ele, and 2 necros
step.2 spam condtions on 1 guy (lots of confusions,chill/bleed etc.)
step.3 30-man zerg rolls over your little group
step.4 shameful respawn

i never said it was 5 vs 30, just a party of 5 :P

DanH.5879:

flow.6043:

DanH.5879:

it is funny how you try to defend your skill that literally melts a whole zerg
that’s how i get 5-10++ conditions at 1 time ! some random necro spamming epidemic

step.1. get 2 mesmers ,1 ele, and 2 necros
step.2 spam condtions on 1 guy (lots of confusions,chill/bleed etc.)
step.3 necros assist puting epidemic on that one guy
step.4 all zerg is full of conditions, all zerg having 6+ confusion stacks, bleeds, burns etc. etc.)
step.5 collect lootbags from all

funny, funny

lol do you even play a necromancer?
Havn’t we all heard the story of the 2 necros who “literally melted a whole zerg” …with a 5-target aoe limit xD

Here’s how your scenario would really play out:
step.1. get 2 mesmers ,1 ele, and 2 necros
step.2 spam condtions on 1 guy (lots of confusions,chill/bleed etc.)
step.3 30-man zerg rolls over your little group
step.4 shameful respawn

i never said it was 5 vs 30, just a party of 5 :P

That’s not a zerg, you choob. Besides, that strategy wouldn’t work on any solid group with coordinated removal. If you have a group coordinated enough to apply conditions like that, they can have a group coordinated enough to remove all of it.

Counter to your little group? 2 Eles, 2 Guardians, and 1 Ranger. Coordinated condition removal, impossible to kill with your pathetic strategy.

Just goes to show that people whom say “Necro don’t need buffs, they’re OP as is” have no idea how to play Necro.

12 seconds reuse ? a utility skill ? go for 24+ traited, and 30+ untraited, and it’s ok
the epidemic spam must stop !

p.s. your mobs in PVE do not clear conditions fyi

You’re dense. I’m ignoring you now.

i proved my point:
necros get double the loot bags in wvw vs zergs at 1200 range

than me dagger storming trough the entire enemy zerg !
then i spam cluster bomb, i still can’t keep up !

You’re complaining that thieves aren’t good enough in WvW, you aren’t going to get any sympathy here.

DanH. when I roll my thief in wvw I get just as many bags as I do on necro (and im just an average thief)

I didnt want to feed the thief troll, until I saw the loot bags thingy … On my 4 80’s, the lowest ratio of bag per kills was on my condition necro. Something to do with no doing enough damage to tag or conditions didn’t register the kill as mine, who knows.

I have 800 hours on my necro, took me months to gather 500 for the Legendary gift (and I’ve leveled from 40 to 80 in WvW). On my mesmer, engi and guardian, each with less than 100 hours play, they drop like crazy and I’m now at 1500 without even trying.

I gather so much stuff on my fresh 80 engi it’s not even funny to compare.

Power trumps condition so much in WvW right now that the scenario you describe normally ends with the primary target getting downed before the 1 sec cast time is done. So gratz you just epidemic’ed a downed enemy with 0 condition. With a 30 sec cooldown I think the skill would just disappear from the utility bar. Before the patch, when we could epidemic through walls/dodge/block etc, I agree it was really good, borderline OP in certains scenarios.

You seem to be envious of our AoE supremacy, but hey, we gotta have something too. I would love to have your single target dps and mobility too! (Must… not… dont feed it arrrggghh!!!)

DanH.5879:

i proved my point:
necros get double the loot bags in wvw vs zergs at 1200 range

than me dagger storming trough the entire enemy zerg !
then i spam cluster bomb, i still can’t keep up !

If it’s just about tagging people for loot bags then epidemic is certainly not the big money skill you make it out to be.

I find it sad that we traded our Red poster for a complete and total thief mega-troll. Nevermind that ANY range AOE (including cluster-bomb) makes it incredibly easy to get loot bags in ZvZ.

Yes epidemic has a very nice cooldown, but that is balanced by the fact that it does NOTHING if its one person, NOTHING if the target doesn’t have any conditions on them, and NOTHING if they manage to clear/dodge/block/get OOR, and has a long cast time.

How about we make shadow-refuge have a cast time of 1 second? I think that is fair considering it give a MASSIVE duration stealth to your group. Or how about we put STEAL damage trait in line with other damage on skill use traits?

Honestly, coming in and trolling our one dev. post in months. That is just plain rude. And coming from the arguably most ridiculous class in WvW, with the EASIEST time dealing with conditions. Have no fear, I am sure ANET will continue to ignore the glaring trait imbalances within your own trait trees that lend themselves towards pitched battles in WvW.

JonathanSharp.7094:

So, we do read the forums.

…We still want you to need LOS to your target, however…

When the devs talk about what is going on with each class, are they in the same room?

Mesmers beserker phantom now requires LOS…makes sense.
Necros epidemic now requires LOS…makes sense.
Eles dragon’s tooth does not…why (looking at the above statement)?
Engineers grenades can now be thrown over the wall to hit all siege anywhere…why (looks up again)?

It makes complete sense that skills require you to be able to see your target to hit it.
So, why are there skills that are “different”?

I agree with lowering the cast time. I also agree with making the cooldown a few seconds longer if there is a lower cast time.

I would also like Anet consider making a trait for epidemic to be unblockable like marks. I believe this would keep balance.

Ubi.4136:

JonathanSharp.7094:

So, we do read the forums.

…We still want you to need LOS to your target, however…

When the devs talk about what is going on with each class, are they in the same room?

Mesmers beserker phantom now requires LOS…makes sense.
Necros epidemic now requires LOS…makes sense.
Eles dragon’s tooth does not…why (looking at the above statement)?
Engineers grenades can now be thrown over the wall to hit all siege anywhere…why (looks up again)?

It makes complete sense that skills require you to be able to see your target to hit it.
So, why are there skills that are “different”?

They just haven’t hit dragon tooth yet…. its next, you can trust in that. As far as the grenades are concerned, if that was a recent change I missed it, and would agree that if they changed something to allow that RECENTLY to go from not working over walls to now working over walls, then something is amiss.

I am wondering when they are going to hit channeled skills like DS4, and make those not go through walls either.

Idk, I’m just happy I can sit safe inside my keep and spam marks and wells on the inside of the door to hit all the silly people attacking the door.

I agree with the base statement. I feel I can no longer use epidemic on my necro…

I have very heavily tilted my build towards zerker gear and wells now for WvW. I was already on the fence in big zerg fights trying to use epidemic because people drop down so quickly, and how, it really is only effective AGAINST players who are already downed, and can’t avoid the epidemic.

It is really a shame too, because it was the class specific skill most different than anything else that could be done by others, and it worked great with conditions. But, with its failure rate, it makes passing up zerker 2000-2500 per damage tick wells not possible anymore.

I think the balance issues will keep coming back to the three different worlds, and how they have to figure out what they want to do. Epidemic is still great in PVE, though now it is pretty weak in SPVP, and very weak in WvW. Wells on the other hand are great in Spvp, nice in WvW, and too short duration in PVE.

If they would take and balance each skill for its target audience it would be a great day. I realize that is asking for a lot from a free-to-play development team, but I can dream. Confusion warranted this approach, and I don’t think other skills are different, they are just not as apparent.