The NEW Lingering Curse
This has been pointed out countless times already.
The duration increase of the new LC doesn’t make sense on so many levels, they definitely have to lower it.
OLD Lingering Curse: Conditions inflicted by scepter skills have 33% increased durations.
Just fyi, it’s not 33%, that’s just a bad tooltip.
OLD Lingering Curse: Conditions inflicted by scepter skills have 33% increased durations.
Just fyi, it’s not 33%, that’s just a bad tooltip.
Yea it raises the base duration by “around” 33%. Blood curse gets 5sec → 7sec base.
The only trait that the new lingering curse conflicts with is the barbed precision’s 20% bleed duration increase. Otherwise, you should just run different runes and sigils. Since you’re gonna stack crit chance in a condition’s build anyway, get a bunch of on crit effects like might.
D/S/R necromancer F/A/T elementalist
S/I/F engineer Z/R/D guard
S/I/F engineer Z/R/D guard
The only trait that the new lingering curse conflicts with is the barbed precision’s 20% bleed duration increase. Otherwise, you should just run different runes and sigils. Since you’re gonna stack crit chance in a condition’s build anyway, get a bunch of on crit effects like might.
In the reaper spec there is also a minor trait that increases chill duration by 20%, another waste… Don’t you think it limits our options in a huge way? While other classes get build-defining minors, we get ones that go to waste anyways. Okay there are way’s around it. But that shouldn’t be the best thing when making a build, that we should AVOID something, that normally does something positive.
For sigils, I plan on running corruption and bursting anyways since it affects all our conditions and with reaper we’ll have an extra damaging one. But for runes, maybe undead is kinda usefull when running Rabid gear. But most usefull ones always have any condition duration on them.
Btw I’m mostly talking PvE here.
HoT will take all stats away from trait lines so you will not automatically have precision and condition damage from the Curses specialization.
Likewise, Spite will not supply power or condition duration.
HoT will take all stats away from trait lines so you will not automatically have precision and condition damage from the Curses specialization.
Likewise, Spite will not supply power or condition duration.
Yea, but Lingering Curse gives 100% right of the bat… So even if we didn’t lose the 30% duration from Spite it would just go to waste. Unless LC stacks over 100%. Thats what I was asking in the first place, you think the 100% cap will be removed too maybe?
It also conflicts with the bonus chill duration reaper minor trait.
The problem with the new lingering curse is that a bunch of PvPers are going to get hit with double duration DS fears, Dhuumfires (and other trait, rune, sigil conditions), focus chills, & DS 5 immobilizes.
Then those things are going to get nerfed, making LC a must take for everybody, even non condition builds.
#24 leaderboard rank North America.
It’s almost as if we had another weapon set that wasn’t scepter. So the condition durations are not completely wasted. Even if I take Lingering Curses I will be taking Runes of Grenth in a reaper/curses/soul reaping build because it will be needed when using staff.
Dark Lord Sutekh – Necromancer
Henge of Denravi
Henge of Denravi
The problem with the new lingering curse is that a bunch of PvPers are going to get hit with double duration DS fears, Dhuumfires (and other trait, rune, sigil conditions), focus chills, & DS 5 immobilizes.
Thats probably why they moved Terror to GM so people can’t take both LC and Terror since that would be OP in PvP.
It’s almost as if we had another weapon set that wasn’t scepter. So the condition durations are not completely wasted. Even if I take Lingering Curses I will be taking Runes of Grenth in a reaper/curses/soul reaping build because it will be needed when using staff.
Like you will be sitting a lot in staff anyway in PvE? Precast marks. Swap to scepter to drop AOE bleeds and maybe transfer the bleeds you got from Blood is Power. Then camp in Reaper Shroud for massive AOE chills and cleaving burns… 100 % chill uptime won’t be a problem anyways. And since LC works in Reaper too when you go into Shroud with scepter active, any duration buffs are not needed. So we just wasted 2 minors by taking LC…
First having more then 100% condition duration is not bad, it just means that things like runes of melandru/hoelbrak/-condition duration food are less effective.
Second I don’t see the condition duration remain at 100%, 50%~70% would be better.
Third we lost 30% duration in a lot of builds be gone and some condition damage will be lost (contion damage does not increase with the patch while some stats in the sum from gear + traits will be lost).
EverythingOP
It seems to me that the GM traits are now meant to be “traits to design your build around”. So at the GM level, they are trying to have choices that are significant.
The 100% condi duration clearly makes LC one of those types of choices. Yes, there is some “lost” value in some other traits, but it gives you a concept that can let you can use as the centerpiece of a build design – letting you choose food, runes, other traits, etc.
It’s really hard to get perfect synergy out of every trait in every trait line.
Maybe Arenanet will just remove the 100% cap for condition duration.
I would assume it stacks in some way since parts of the line would be redundant. Example being hemophilia having 20% bleed duration.
I would assume it stacks in some way since parts of the line would be redundant. Example being hemophilia having 20% bleed duration.
Maybe Arenanet will just remove the 100% cap for condition duration.
This! That is what I’m hoping… Or make LC go over 100% like it does now, or remove the 100% cap in all is even another step into making conditions viable in PvE.
I think some people are dreaming.
How do people think a trait that increase your condition duration to a maximum isn’t broken?
This is just random number don’t keep your hope up.
All is vain.
I think some people are dreaming.
How do people think a trait that increase your condition duration to a maximum isn’t broken?
This is just random number don’t keep your hope up.
Honestly what do you think the number is going to be? Anything from 50% or 100% is still wonderfull for pve (food can take the other 50%).
EverythingOP
Well necros are supposed to be good at manipulating conditions so having the longest duration out of everyone does make some sort of sense.
Doing great DPS is a nice thing but having to use something broken to do great DPS, isn’t.
A trait should be balance around the weapon not the other way around.
Lets say this new trait will grant 100% condi duration but what are they going to take away from us to have this to make it balance? Yes they will reduce your base duration to kitten to balance it out. And who bother to use PC or Terror?
I don’t know what number they are going to use but for me the maximum I could ask for is 30% but unconditional. So it will be useful for both weapons.
All is vain.
Well you know what. How about we all just wait till Monday.
Doing great DPS is a nice thing but having to use something broken to do great DPS, isn’t.
A trait should be balance around the weapon not the other way around.
Lets say this new trait will grant 100% condi duration but what are they going to take away from us to have this to make it balance? Yes they will reduce your base duration to kitten to balance it out. And who bother to use PC or Terror?
I don’t know what number they are going to use but for me the maximum I could ask for is 30% but unconditional. So it will be useful for both weapons.
Don’t forget they already take away 30% from us from trait lines… So atleast 66% would make it decent for a GM trait, and that way the other 33% can be filled up with food to reach the cap, and it would not make the minors 20% not totally useless for people that don’t run foods on condition duration.
Arena net has already thought about your concerns. If there is a cap on duration than Lingering curse wont count toward that cap. its as simple as that.
Also, for those who think its too good. its not. Look at some other traits and compare them with the necromancer. Guardian gets a 33% burn damage boost, Mesmer gets double torment damage while foes are moving, ranger gets a poison damage boost. Not to mention warrior. You compare the current state of necromancer condi builds with the current state of other professions we are severally lacking. We’re slower to build up than anyone else. Our only real advantage is variety of conditions not over all damage. We are lacking. Seriously lacking. Even after the changes we are lacking. We need something more than just this to give us a real oomph on our builds. Our Valn stacking might be enough. But I’m skeptical of that as well.
Doing great DPS is a nice thing but having to use something broken to do great DPS, isn’t.
A trait should be balance around the weapon not the other way around.
Lets say this new trait will grant 100% condi duration but what are they going to take away from us to have this to make it balance? Yes they will reduce your base duration to kitten to balance it out. And who bother to use PC or Terror?
I don’t know what number they are going to use but for me the maximum I could ask for is 30% but unconditional. So it will be useful for both weapons.
Don’t forget they already take away 30% from us from trait lines… So atleast 66% would make it decent for a GM trait, and that way the other 33% can be filled up with food to reach the cap, and it would not make the minors 20% not totally useless for people that don’t run foods on condition duration.
Not sure if you are drunk or whatever. But 66% would make it DECENT for a GM trait? By your standard, Master of Terror is a cr4ppy trait?
Would you kind enough to show me a trait that increase condition duration above 30% and unconditionally?
Arena net has already thought about your concerns. If there is a cap on duration than Lingering curse wont count toward that cap. its as simple as that.
Also, for those who think its too good. its not. Look at some other traits and compare them with the necromancer. Guardian gets a 33% burn damage boost, Mesmer gets double torment damage while foes are moving, ranger gets a poison damage boost. Not to mention warrior. You compare the current state of necromancer condi builds with the current state of other professions we are severally lacking. We’re slower to build up than anyone else. Our only real advantage is variety of conditions not over all damage. We are lacking. Seriously lacking. Even after the changes we are lacking. We need something more than just this to give us a real oomph on our builds. Our Valn stacking might be enough. But I’m skeptical of that as well.
Yes lets talk what others going to have but not what we are going to have?
Guardian gets a 33% burn damage boost?
Mesmer gets double torment damage while foes are moving?
Ranger gets a poison damage boost?
What about Necro?
Lingering Curse: will boost damage of every single condition we have in term of duration.
Terror: Fear deals damage.
Deathly Chill: Chill deals damage.
All is vain.
(edited by Siva Mira.3546)
If there is a cap on duration than Lingering curse wont count toward that cap. its as simple as that.
If that is true then Lingering Curse would be even more broken.
Barely anyone here is even considering how terrible 100% would be for the class. Every skill and trait would have to be balanced with the possibility of just doubling everything with this trait. And redundancy with other traits or gear aside, if this really would allow you to exceed the 100% cap then it’s actually even worse. We’d end up with a class that is completely crippled unless you run scepter + LC.
Seriously, if Lingering Curse actually goes live with 100% condi duration it would be the worst thing that ever happened necros. So, no thanks to that.
And to everyone who’s crying about other classes getting more than us: that’s just not true. And even if it was, the solution to that can’t be to simply dump a truck load of condi duration into a single trait.
Would you kind enough to show me a trait that increase condition duration above 30% and unconditionally?
There exist no trait that increase all condition duration with 30% or above there does however exist a rune set that decreases condition duration with 20% on the 6th slot and one that decreases with 25% with 25% due to 4 and 6 th slot. (and let’s be honest rune bonuses are not grandmaster level).
EverythingOP
If there is a cap on duration than Lingering curse wont count toward that cap. its as simple as that.
If that is true then Lingering Curse would be even more broken.
Barely anyone here is even considering how terrible 100% would be for the class. Every skill and trait would have to be balanced with the possibility of just doubling everything with this trait. And redundancy with other traits or gear aside, if this really would allow you to exceed the 100% cap then it’s actually even worse. We’d end up with a class that is completely crippled unless you run scepter + LC.
Seriously, if Lingering Curse actually goes live with 100% condi duration it would be the worst thing that ever happened necros. So, no thanks to that.
And to everyone who’s crying about other classes getting more than us: that’s just not true. And even if it was, the solution to that can’t be to simply dump a truck load of condi duration into a single trait.
I aggree 100% is a number too high , but can you accept a lower number or do you the trait concept completely broken? I do think the trait concept can work, because duration has counters.
EverythingOP
First of all, does a condition Necro need this? even in our current form we don’t even need this. And yes duration has a counter, so should we put 60sec bleeding on your Auto Attack because people can just remove it.
All is vain.
I aggree 100% is a number too high , but can you accept a lower number or do you the trait concept completely broken? I do think the trait concept can work, because duration has counters.
Imo the concept is nice, but the duration would have to be lowered to ~20-30%.
Generally I think it’s good that you can pick a trait to counteract the loss of stats that were usually tied to trait lines, although in most cases this is solved through raised base stats and minor traits.
However, 100% is just mad, it makes no sense to give a single trait this much duration.
It would be more reasonable to have some runes and sigils slightly buffed, so you could still reach a high duration in combination with a weaker version of Lingering Curse. This way you’d create some form of opportunity cost, but having one trait instantly max out everything is just lazy.
First of all, does a condition Necro need this? even in our current form we don’t even need this.
Kinda,in pvp our condition pressure is low, the only thing that made condition necro playable was corrupt boon and terror. But with the introduction of shoutbow (which is a very good indicator that there is too much removal, the class which was supposed to be weak against conditions make conditions almost obsolete)it became even worse for the condition necro. So we need condition pressure.
Do we need +X condition duration? No, we could have gotten more stacks from different sources.
And yes duration has a counter, so should we put 60sec bleeding on your Auto Attack because people can just remove it.
Now you’re just exagerating. It’s 10 sec bleeding on auto with 100% duration which is 25% above warrior sword auto attack base.
EverythingOP
I aggree 100% is a number too high , but can you accept a lower number or do you the trait concept completely broken? I do think the trait concept can work, because duration has counters.
Imo the concept is nice, but the duration would have to be lowered to ~20-30%.
Generally I think it’s good that you can pick a trait to counteract the loss of stats that were usually tied to trait lines, although in most cases this is solved through raised base stats and minor traits.
However, 100% is just mad, it makes no sense to give a single trait this much duration.
It would be more reasonable to have some runes and sigils slightly buffed, so you could still reach a high duration in combination with a weaker version of Lingering Curse. This way you’d create some form of opportunity cost, but having one trait instantly max out everything is just lazy.
20%~30%!?? it doesn’t even cover the loss on cripple/chill/immob from dogged march, the 25% on melandru and barely the 20% from hoelbrak. This trait is still a grandmaster. 40% at least 50%~60% preferable, after all it is scepter only.
EverythingOP
20%~30%!?? it doesn’t even cover the loss on cripple/chill/immob from dogged march, the 25% on melandru and barely the 20% from hoelbrak. This trait is still a grandmaster. 40% at least 50%~60% preferable, after all it is scepter only.
The trait actually gives condition damage as well, and I’m in favour that it still buffs the scepter’s base durations.
Also, you can’t just look at the trait on its own.
Like I said, they could raise gear related duration buffs, which would make more sense in context of the entire game where not every necro build or even other classes have access to Lingering Curse.
For example Runes of the Nightmare: they are still going to be a popular choice after the patch, so you could buff them to have 25% instead of just 15% condi duration, and if LC had another 25% you’d end up with a total of 50%. That’s actually already more than you can currently have with 6 points in spite, and as it happens that would leave exactly 50% for Master of Terror before you max out your fear duration.
If there is a cap on duration than Lingering curse wont count toward that cap. its as simple as that.
If that is true then Lingering Curse would be even more broken.
Barely anyone here is even considering how terrible 100% would be for the class. Every skill and trait would have to be balanced with the possibility of just doubling everything with this trait. And redundancy with other traits or gear aside, if this really would allow you to exceed the 100% cap then it’s actually even worse. We’d end up with a class that is completely crippled unless you run scepter + LC.
Seriously, if Lingering Curse actually goes live with 100% condi duration it would be the worst thing that ever happened necros. So, no thanks to that.
And to everyone who’s crying about other classes getting more than us: that’s just not true. And even if it was, the solution to that can’t be to simply dump a truck load of condi duration into a single trait.
Except you forget about the expansion of condi cleansing and resistance giving total immunity to conditions. That 100% duration is good, but not broken.
If there is a cap on duration than Lingering curse wont count toward that cap. its as simple as that.
If that is true then Lingering Curse would be even more broken.
Barely anyone here is even considering how terrible 100% would be for the class. Every skill and trait would have to be balanced with the possibility of just doubling everything with this trait. And redundancy with other traits or gear aside, if this really would allow you to exceed the 100% cap then it’s actually even worse. We’d end up with a class that is completely crippled unless you run scepter + LC.
Seriously, if Lingering Curse actually goes live with 100% condi duration it would be the worst thing that ever happened necros. So, no thanks to that.
And to everyone who’s crying about other classes getting more than us: that’s just not true. And even if it was, the solution to that can’t be to simply dump a truck load of condi duration into a single trait.
Except you forget about the expansion of condi cleansing and resistance giving total immunity to conditions. That 100% duration is good, but not broken.
If those become a problem then balance the weapon out to counter it instead of using a single trait to fix a useless weapon. Trait is there to make things work better or customize it, but not to fix thing by doubling its power
All is vain.
(edited by Siva Mira.3546)
If there is a cap on duration than Lingering curse wont count toward that cap. its as simple as that.
If that is true then Lingering Curse would be even more broken.
Barely anyone here is even considering how terrible 100% would be for the class. Every skill and trait would have to be balanced with the possibility of just doubling everything with this trait. And redundancy with other traits or gear aside, if this really would allow you to exceed the 100% cap then it’s actually even worse. We’d end up with a class that is completely crippled unless you run scepter + LC.
Seriously, if Lingering Curse actually goes live with 100% condi duration it would be the worst thing that ever happened necros. So, no thanks to that.
And to everyone who’s crying about other classes getting more than us: that’s just not true. And even if it was, the solution to that can’t be to simply dump a truck load of condi duration into a single trait.
Except you forget about the expansion of condi cleansing and resistance giving total immunity to conditions. That 100% duration is good, but not broken.
If those become a problem then balance the weapon out to counter it instead of using a single trait to fix a useless weapon. Trait is there to make things work better or customize it, but not to fix thing by doubling its power
Scepter is great. I use it all the time. Its a fun weapon to use with good tech. Its 3 skills is lacking but everything else about it is solid. Honestly, I feel people are crying wolf for nothing. Especially seeing as its not that big of an increase compared to what we are already losing.
The trait actually gives condition damage as well,
All these examples had another effect as well.
and I’m in favour that it still buffs the scepter’s base durations.
So in other words it only affects 2 skills on a specific weapon, what a grandmaster? I can feel the power of the trait. /sarcasm
Also, you can’t just look at the trait on its own.
You are right to some extent but a trait has to be strong enough to mak ean impact on it’s own to be taken.
Like I said, they could raise gear related duration buffs, which would make more sense in context of the entire game where not every necro build or even other classes have access to Lingering Curse.
It still won’t make lingering curse on the level of a proper grandmaster.
For example Runes of the Nightmare: they are still going to be a popular choice after the patch, so you could buff them to have 25% instead of just 15% condi duration, and if LC had another 25% you’d end up with a total of 50%. That’s actually already more than you can currently have with 6 points in spite, and as it happens that would leave exactly 50% for Master of Terror before you max out your fear duration.
The only thing this does is make terror more desirable not LC.
EverythingOP
Except you forget about the expansion of condi cleansing and resistance giving total immunity to conditions. That 100% duration is good, but not broken.
Yes… long durations definitely help a lot against complete immunities.
You don’t seem to understand the implication of getting +100% with just one trait.
It doesn’t make sense in context of the game, the class or even withing the same specialization where it would render Hemophilia useless.
Also, it’s a balancing nightmare, because the trait will be op unless you nerf everything else, but then you destroy all build diversity by making LC mandatory.
So in other words it only affects 2 skills on a specific weapon, what a grandmaster? I can feel the power of the trait. /sarcasm
…
It still won’t make lingering curse on the level of a proper grandmaster.
With the new specialization system you have to stop assuming that grandmaster traits are stronger than others. You always unlock the entire line, so you might as well call them tier A, B and C. The only thing that matters is which three traits compete for the same slot, and which builds will be possible by doing so.
You are right to some extent but a trait has to be strong enough to mak ean impact on it’s own to be taken.
That’s simply wrong, you always have to consider the entire build.
The only thing this does is make terror more desirable not LC.
Well, I’m actually hoping that Terror will be merged with a minor trait…
(edited by flow.6043)
Except you forget about the expansion of condi cleansing and resistance giving total immunity to conditions. That 100% duration is good, but not broken.
Yes… long durations definitely help a lot against complete immunities.
You don’t seem to understand the implication of getting +100% with just one trait.
It doesn’t make sense in context of the game, the class or even withing the same specialization where it would render Hemophilia useless.
Also, it’s a balancing nightmare, because the trait will be op unless you nerf everything else, but then you destroy all build diversity by making LC mandatory.
You seem to believe that Arena Net are not aware of that interaction in the current game. They are aware of it. They’re not incompetent. More than likely LC will stack 100% condi duration above whatever else there is. Otherwise it doesn’t synergies with most rune sets, a couple other traits including one from the reaper or a few sigils. It would limit your options if it was the way you and many others believe it will work. From a design stand point it would be a terrible idea if it didn’t stack with them above the 100% limit. Which is why I don’t believe they’re doing what you and many others believe they’re doing.
Well, the trait specifically says “when wielding a scepter, your condition damage +150 and outgoing condition duration is increased by 100%” if this is true, it applies to ALL conditions you apply while wielding a scepter, not just the scepter itself. This would include:
-conditions applied in death shroud (dhuumfire, tainted shackles, vulnerability, ect)
-dagger/warhorn/focus conditions
-utility conditions (corruption skills will get HUGE GAINS from this)
-sigil conditions, rune conditions, ect
It has the potential to be incredibly powerful. However, most other classes and builds are gonna be a lot stronger after this change, so it’s hard to say if it really would be over powered or not. How often do you see a necro running corruptions right now anyway? After all, it’s only 33% more duration than you would have pre-patch.
Let’s say you wanted to run a max condition damage build, for example:
http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgQFrAJkAag~
In this build you get lots of vulnerability and other conditions, however if you want any access to a stun break or stability you either need to give up a corruption (lowering damage) or give up dhuumfire (also lowering damage). In order to get a grandmaster that synergizes well with it, you need to give up something very important to defense too.
D/S/R necromancer F/A/T elementalist
S/I/F engineer Z/R/D guard
S/I/F engineer Z/R/D guard
(edited by striker.3704)
It has the potential to be incredibly powerful.
It has the certainty to be incredibly overpowered.
How often do you see a necro running corruptions right now anyway?
Always…?
After all, it’s only 33% more duration than you would have pre-patch.
What?
You seem to believe that Arena Net are not aware of that interaction in the current game. They are aware of it. They’re not incompetent. More than likely LC will stack 100% condi duration above whatever else there is. Otherwise it doesn’t synergies with most rune sets, a couple other traits including one from the reaper or a few sigils. It would limit your options if it was the way you and many others believe it will work. From a design stand point it would be a terrible idea if it didn’t stack with them above the 100% limit. Which is why I don’t believe they’re doing what you and many others believe they’re doing.
There are 3 possibilities:
1. 100% was a typo in the tooltip.
2. They didn’t think about what 100% in a single trait would do at all. They just slapped a rediculously high number on Lingering Curse and called it a day.
3. Your version, they are aware of the issue of conflicting with other traits and will remove the cap on condition durations, or let Lingering Curse alone exceed the 100% cap. Either way this 3rd option would by far be the most rediculously op case of op-ness in the whole history of gaming, ever!
Some conditions of ours are short for a reason, like all fears, Barbed Precision, Chilling Darkness/Nova, Shivers of Dread… they are all likely to run their full duration even against opponents with excellent cleansing. Now, think back to when Anet took their time to decide whether necros should have 2 or 3 sec of weakness on Weakening Shroud, and then made it 2 because 3 would be too much. Keeping that in mind, do you really think Anet would allow necros to get one trait that not only doubles even harder CC conditions on its own but even exceeds the 100% mark in combination with other traits and gear? This would mean you could turn 1 second fears and chills into almost 3 seconds, 2 seconds into more than 5 seconds, how about 7+ sec of cripple with every Locust Swarm pulse, or a traited Corrosive Poison Cloud that provides more than 100% weakness and poison uptime on a capture point (not counting any combos with the poison field). Barbed Precision would inflict more damage than an unbuffed scepter auto attack, you wouldn’t even need to bother with the scepter itself anymore, just have it equipped before going into Reaper’s Shroud and auto attack with Deathly Perception and/or Decimate Defenses to inflict more bleeding aoe than the scepter could on a single target.
Seriously, while you might think that the devs can’t possibly overlook a redundancy in overstacking with certain trait and gear combinations, a 100% boost on top of other duration buffs without any limit would be the worst thing to ever happen to our balance.
I know this video is rather old so I am not sure how valid it is, but at the 4:20 mark of the video, it demonstrates how lingering curse actually made bleeding duration go above the duration increase for bleeding.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8bpQi6gFIc
That’s just Nemesis demonstrating something obvious in an unnecessarily complicated way. And no, there is no such thing as 133% condi duration.
The current version of Lingering Curse changes the scepter’s auto attack and Grasping Dead, they become completely new skills with different durations, and those longer durations (non of which actually increased by 33%, misleading tooltip) can again be extended by regular duration buffs, hence not violating the 100% rule.
This was actually something nice for PvE condi builds, and I don’t really understand why they would remove this base duration mod since it’s very easy to max bleeding duration with food and gear anyway.
I think the new one work better since it will apply to everything as long as you have Scepter. The current one we have only work with 2 skills of Scepter.
All is vain.