Guild Wars 2

My fellow Tyrians.

Today we launch a new journey. This is more dangerous than a dungeon run, will take longer than a fractal, more deadly that solo roaming in wvw. Today, we ask the devs for help. As a community of death loving, green and black wearing (a few exceptions to that) we need to come together and use our minds as one.
Our cousins, the engineer, launched a Hobosack crusade a little under 3 years ago and finally won their battle. Its time we do the same. All you need to show is put a few lines on how to make the Axe a viable weapon, and sign your name. Thats it. No more Axe threads. Every week or so an axe thread comes up and gets laughed at or swept under the rug.
No Mas.
Im tired of looking at my axe and wondering if it will ever be worth it. Im tired of my staff, a hybrid weapon, being a better power weapon than my power weapon.
No Mas.
This silly dagger animation with an axe?
No Mas!

Happy Monday and may Grenth be with you

I’ll just quote another user in a different thread, who I think made a reasonable suggestion to modify axe:

Sigmoid.7082:

All it needs is damage coefficient changed from 0.7 to 0.85, range on #1 and #2 increased from 600 to 900, and #2 be a whirl finish and #3 be a blast.

Salamander.2504:

I’ll just quote another user in a different thread, who I think made a reasonable suggestion to modify axe:

Sigmoid.7082:

All it needs is damage coefficient changed from 0.7 to 0.85, range on #1 and #2 increased from 600 to 900, and #2 be a whirl finish and #3 be a blast.

This. I also thought #2 damage should be increased am additional amount because the whole thing is really easily dodged. But that may be asking too much.
Really have a trait or two synergize with vulnerability better would help too. Ex: grant yourself fury and/or might when your target reaches 5 stacks of vulnerability.

Slithe Slivier/Varic Mortel

Salamander.2504:

I’ll just quote another user in a different thread, who I think made a reasonable suggestion to modify axe:

Sigmoid.7082:

All it needs is damage coefficient changed from 0.7 to 0.85, range on #1 and #2 increased from 600 to 900, and #2 be a whirl finish and #3 be a blast.

I woukd like to add people only focus on the blast finisher for might and water. The reason I feel the blast and whirl would be fine is because of the fields we have access to. Dark, light and ethereal.

All wells besides the heal are dark fields. This would actually give us more access to blind and make taking chilling dark a little more worth it. Aoe chill and potential vulnerability. Blasting the heal would grant retaliation to your team or allowing you to blast Swall for chaos armour. Allowing again more blind and chill with chilling dark, potential confusion from it for condi builds and we have criple anyways. Also this combo as a way to gain boons we already have access to so nothing new. ( regen, protection and swiftness). Chaos armour also fits the "we want to get hit thing. Also CpC for even more weakness uptime. This change for #3 would also make spiteful spirit a competitor for GM as at the moment its kind of weak.

Whirl wise it would allow use for leeching bolts, condi clense bolts as well as confusion and poison bolts. All of these things fit necromancers perfectly well. Spreading conditions, leeching health or providing an extremely low amount of team condi removal support which we already do.

I use axe because the 2 skill is great for lifeforce, scales better in DS than dagger, and lets me use my OH skills (unlike staff). I avoid the main attack if at all possible. I camp DS as much as possible and swap to dagger if I still need more lifeforce and DS isnt off cooldown.

The new animation on axe aa is awful. I wish the new axe trait would apply ‘while using an axe’ not specially ‘while using axe skills’ so it could be a better DS camping weapon at least.

+1000 signed

I put my sigil of Generousity on my Frostfang way back when, and I think I die a little watching that thing collect dust.

More finishers!

Why were our current weapons not upgraded with finishers with the patch?

Also, a big thank you to the dev’s for making axe stack vulnerability twice as fast but it’s still slower than other professions and the caps has not changed.

nekretaal.6485:

+1000 signed

I put my sigil of Generousity on my Frostfang way back when, and I think I die a little watching that thing collect dust.

this exactly. everytime I look at my axe I.. I… I feel your pain

Crypt The Immortal

nekretaal.6485:

+1000 signed

I put my sigil of Generousity on my Frostfang way back when, and I think I die a little watching that thing collect dust.

i made frostfang for my necromancer too, and i don’t use it. it too, collects dust. Sadly i don’t see axe being tweaked until after HOT, which is a shame because axe has been a poor choice for a weapon for a very long time.

More finishers
900 range, at 600 you may as well go melee with daggers. With that range there would be some kind of death dance, where you try to stay away from the enemy when using the axe, then go closer with death shroud, then back again.
Not sure about the damage, I would keep it as it is, BUT get some cleave, 3 targets pls (maybe with the secondary targets taking reduced damage, better than nothing)
And how about skill 3 applying chill instead of cripple? The devs said that chill fits well to the necro style. 2 chills, if we include focus, may sound like a lot, but since we have so few gapclosers, it would just support the “you can’t escape me” feel. Though in the end they’ll escape anyway

Al Masone.1274:

More finishers
900 range, at 600 you may as well go melee with daggers. With that range there would be some kind of death dance, where you try to stay away from the enemy when using the axe, then go closer with death shroud, then back again.
Not sure about the damage, I would keep it as it is, BUT get some cleave, 3 targets pls (maybe with the secondary targets taking reduced damage, better than nothing)
And how about skill 3 applying chill instead of cripple? The devs said that chill fits well to the necro style. 2 chills, if we include focus, may sound like a lot, but since we have so few gapclosers, it would just support the “you can’t escape me” feel. Though in the end they’ll escape anyway

Because cleaving more than 2 targets and applying a lot of chill is exactly what reaper and GS are for.

I am extremely concerned Necromancer is being balanced around a Reaper build having some imaginary awesomeness that will not be tested extensively until release.

The balance team did not spend nearly enough time testing builds for this intermediate stage so I do not have much hope they will have anything close to balanced when HoT releases. Where does the hate for Necromancer come from? It cannot be the place where other professions do 10K – 20K damage per tick.

It’s important that axe get some attention. I expect 99 percent of power necros to go Reaper once the expansion releases, meaning we lose death shroud 1 and our only decent ranged attack.

Axe needs its 1 skill to be un-nerfed, and imo I’d much rather see it have an attack speed increase to allow for better vuln stacking, which was effectively nerfed with the condition duration changes, and obviously more damage overall, I don’t think it should match dagger but at least match other weapons of similar uses, like Guardian Scepter.

Axe 2 needs a damage increase, and it being a whirl finisher would be nice.

Axe 3 should be a blast finisher.

I don’t actually think Axe needs a range increase, the range is still a really important advantage over dagger as 600 large enough that you can’t just kite it on a point in PvP, however a range increase would be fine as 900 would make it a true ranged weapon, whereas 600 isn’t long-range.

I have two main suggestions on changing how the axe works, and a comment on the trait.

Increase its damage a little bit and make it hit up to 5 enemies in a cone like other 600 range weapons (like Guard Staff or Engi Flamer) on its auto attack. Increase the damage on skill 2 a little bit and give it the whirl finisher it deserves, maybe allow it to cleave as well. Give skill 3 a blast finisher.

OR

Increase the range to 900 on the first two skills, and increase the damage and attack speed. Some kind of cleave would be nice on either skill 1 or 2. Make skill 2 a whirl, and skill 3 a blast.

ALSO

Change axe trait to give damage bonus independant of weapon, or give it some other boost to make it worth taking. The current trait does not compare to other professions’ weapon traits in the same tier, it’s such an underwhelming trait right now.

Bhawb.7408:

Axe needs its 1 skill to be un-nerfed, and imo I’d much rather see it have an attack speed increase to allow for better vuln stacking, which was effectively nerfed with the condition duration changes, and obviously more damage overall, I don’t think it should match dagger but at least match other weapons of similar uses, like Guardian Scepter.

Axe 2 needs a damage increase, and it being a whirl finisher would be nice.

Axe 3 should be a blast finisher.

I don’t actually think Axe needs a range increase, the range is still a really important advantage over dagger as 600 large enough that you can’t just kite it on a point in PvP, however a range increase would be fine as 900 would make it a true ranged weapon, whereas 600 isn’t long-range.

Interesting enough I think a range increase would be vital as is stands. It almost would be worth taking if it was 900 or 1000 range as the weapon is currently imo. However I agree with everything else you’ve stated

1: Increase the damage scaling of number 1 by a fair margin (as much as 30% if not more.

2: Move the life force generation from number 2 to number 1, but make number 2 hit harder. (its supposed to be a burst skill but is laughable)

(If change number 1 & 2 mean axe skills number 1 & 2 need to become projectiles then so be it, at least they will be useful)

4: Make number 3 a blast finisher.

5: Change unholy fervor/ Get rid of the + damage portion of it and make it instead increase the range of number 1 & 2 on the axe by 300 units.

After that axe is a perfectly fine power weapon for medium range.

Azure.8670:

Interesting enough I think a range increase would be vital as is stands. It almost would be worth taking if it was 900 or 1000 range as the weapon is currently imo. However I agree with everything else you’ve stated

Axe would still be an objectively bad weapon at 900 range, though technically stronger (I take it even as it is now, that’s how awful our weapon situation is atm). People do need to realize however that a 900 range axe will always be weaker attack for attack than a 600 range axe, because that extra 300 range is included in the “power budget”.

Bhawb.7408:

Azure.8670:

Interesting enough I think a range increase would be vital as is stands. It almost would be worth taking if it was 900 or 1000 range as the weapon is currently imo. However I agree with everything else you’ve stated

Axe would still be an objectively bad weapon at 900 range, though technically stronger (I take it even as it is now, that’s how awful our weapon situation is atm). People do need to realize however that a 900 range axe will always be weaker attack for attack than a 600 range axe, because that extra 300 range is included in the “power budget”.

Axe already does the damage of a 900 range weapon its just weird it’s not 900 range. Suggestions and reasons I said earlier in the thread would fit perfectly fine because of the kit we have.

1. power scaling to 0.85, 900 range
2. whirl finish , 900 range
3. blast finish

Anet seems worried about to much support but that would only come with coordinating with your team for fields we don’t have. All the fields we so have result in offensive things that we already have besides chaos armour once every 45(36)s.

Salamander.2504:

I’ll just quote another user in a different thread, who I think made a reasonable suggestion to modify axe:

Sigmoid.7082:

All it needs is damage coefficient changed from 0.7 to 0.85, range on #1 and #2 increased from 600 to 900, and #2 be a whirl finish and #3 be a blast.

See that would make Axe awesome.. Not OP but more useful and less sucky as it does now.

Personally the reason I don’t use Axe isn’t it’s lack of finishers at all (although they would be certainly welcome), but simply because when it comes to dealing ranged damage Staff is just better :/ … It does marginally less damage per attack than Axe at high power levels, but at double the range and with a faster attack rate (1.4 per second vs 0.95 according to the wiki, 0.75s cast vs 1s cast). On top of that it also pierces AND generates life force.

Staff was just buffed so it can’t have been considered too strong, which means Axe being so inferior is just confusing, it barely outdamages the scepter even. With it’s range being midway between Staff and Dagger I’d expect it’s damage to be as well, hitting multiple targets would be great but really just having the option to not be kited/have to stand in the AoE would be a good trade-off for the loss of cleave by taking it over Dagger. Up the damage on #2 or decrease its channel time so that it’s a proper burst attack (although quicker cast means you can dodge the whole thing so it’s a mixed bag).

Increase range and damage on 1 and 2, fix animation on 1 skill, make 3 a blast finisher, bam useable.

I’d personally like seeing a 1200 range power weapon since we have terrible mobility and ranged pressure counters a lot of necro builds hard. I don’t think axe should be that weapon though so I’m okay with 900 range.

I’ll lend my support for this. Although the recent necro changes improved our class a lot, the axe still needs to be looked at.

If I could dream…

1- same, maybe increase the attack speed and decrease damage so it stacks vuln faster

2- Narrow cone, hits up to 3 targets (life force gain remains the same, like dagger auto). Whirl finisher. ALTERNATIVELY- The “final hit” mechanic from 100 Blades is really cool, and channeling skills which use this have a lot of potential to be interesting. The simplest one would be a final hit which deals AOE damage and applies a condition (Weakness?), but I’m sure there are others which would fit well.

3- Blast finisher.

Unholy fervor- Each hit with Rending Claws reduces the cooldown on axe skills by 1 second. Ghastly Claws and Unholy Feast deal additional damage to Vulnerable targets (10-20%?)

I realize that 1 second is REALLY good, but I think this would give axe a really unique playstyle and make it fantastic for tanky builds (since LF generation would be higher and it synergizes with Corrupter’s Fervor).

Axe is pretty bad, the worst weapon in the game.

But focus isn’t too far behind. Focus needs to keep up to power creep.

nekretaal.6485:

Axe is pretty bad, the worst weapon in the game.

But focus isn’t too far behind. Focus needs to keep up to power creep.

Agreed axe is the worst weapon, although I hate ranger axe as well but it’s better.

Focus I don’t think is bad, but it can’t keep up with warhorn or dagger… def needs some kinda buff.

I like a lot of the axe suggestions. I think we can all agree that axe 1 is the base change we need fixed asap. Either range speed power, any or all of the three need to be buffed. Axe 2 and 3 need a buff as well but I believe would be viable if 1 was better

nekretaal.6485:

Axe is pretty bad, the worst weapon in the game.

But focus isn’t too far behind. Focus needs to keep up to power creep.

What?! We don’t get to make fun of guardian shield anymore?

There’s really no reason why Axe should be this bad. Axe 1 needs a cleave, Axe 2 can use 900 range, Axe 3 just needs a bit higher damage. I WvW so I still use Axe, but really, it shouldn’t be this bad.

Plexxing.2978:

nekretaal.6485:

Axe is pretty bad, the worst weapon in the game.

But focus isn’t too far behind. Focus needs to keep up to power creep.

What?! We don’t get to make fun of guardian shield anymore?

Thats the thing.

Guardian shield is a perfectly useable weapon, even a good weapon. It’s problem is that its outclassed by guardian focus, which is similar. It’s got at least one powerful skill (unlike necromancer focus which has zero).

Axe seems to have no point, its a low power power weapon that or doesn’t do anything well. Bad at range, bad at damage, bad at boon stripping, bad at vulnerability stacking. It’s so bad that its outclassed as a power weapon by necromancer scepter, which is also a bad weapon.

I have been playing an aggressive WvW build with dagger/warhorn and axe/dagger lately and it sucks.

Sure you got speed without the signet or speed/traveler but your flexibility goes completely down the drain. Tbh the fix for my problems would be fairly simple – make axe 1 and 2 900 range, 1200 when traited. 3 can remain a shortrange AoE attack. Worst case, at least do it for axe 1 so I can use that kitten thing from atop walls or half-decent in zergs.

At the end of the day, the staff is such an important tool for the Necro you need it. That limits the secondary weapon options to dagger, scepter or axe. I honestly dont see anyone picking the axe in that situation. Its skills have literally no redeeming factors that make me go “oh but I use axe for that skill”.

Seems like everything Anet is doing right now is for Xpac.. so unless the small team they have sorting out every issue I dont see axe being sorted and finally “fixed” untill after Xpac sadly.

HardRider.2980:

Seems like everything Anet is doing right now is for Xpac.. so unless the small team they have sorting out every issue I dont see axe being sorted and finally “fixed” untill after Xpac sadly.

As much as I agree with this in just want one red post. The Mesmer forum got a red post, engi gotten them… I want one here. I want acknowledgement that is all. They can say hey azure you suck. That’s fine. As long as someone in that gigantic building knows that we know the axe absolutely sucks

What do you all think of rolling Spectral Grasp into axe 3, Unholy Feast, to add a singe-target pull to the AoE? A pull on axe could add more play, especially after the nerf to combat mobility impairment.

Necromancer’s weapons need as many ways to pull as Necromancer has to Fear. Pulls also need to land more successfully. Spectral Grasp was always kind of weak for a utility and now chill has reduced usefulness.

There is no reason to have a pull on a 600 range weapon. Also Grasp is really strong, its issue has always been its unreliability and how hard it is to fit it into a build.

I disagree with both points. A pull on axe would allow a swap to dagger or great sword and also keep targets trying to retreat or evade in play.

Grasp does zero damage and is close to a simple Cc. No blast finisher, no direct damage, easy to evade at medium and long range.

Bhawb.7408:

There is no reason to have a pull on a 600 range weapon. Also Grasp is really strong, its issue has always been its unreliability and how hard it is to fit it into a build.

This and this. If we had 900 to 1200 range I’d welcome a pull. As of now it would be redundant

I’m all for the 900 range. Dagger is already a melee to mid range weapon with 2 of it’s skills being 600 range, we don’t need two. Their is a massive hole in the ranged power options though. Axe 2 would be much better at that range, but would still probably need a damage buff. Axe 1 would still need a rework, or a massive damage buff.

Of all the possibilities for axe the idea of the axe being able to reduce the recharge of all of your other skills is my favourite.

Would make for some interesting builds being able to reduce cooldown of skills like wells for PvE or being able to use epidemic more often etc. Something like 2% recharge per auto attack or something.

I think the axe needs a buff but we also need to maintain a difference between axe autoattack and lifeblast

You guys!
You need to stop thinking with your power builds, it’s embarrassing. :/
Axe is a great utility weapon for mid range procs and pressure.
The only thing I’ll like to see is a faster attack speed on skill one, even if it means lowering the damage to allow it.
The idea of a whirl finisher on skill two would be cool, but a blast finisher on skill three? you are dreaming.

edit: spelling mistake

Pulsicle.3192:

You guys!
You need to stop thinking with your power builds, it’s embarrassing. :/
Axe is a great utility weapon for mid range procs and pressure.
The only thing I’ll like to see is a faster attack speed on skill one, even if it means lowering the damage to allow it.
The idea of a whirl finisher on skill two would be cool, but a blast finisher on skill three? you are dreaming.

edit: spelling mistake

I’m sorry but how else would you picture axe? It’s do far from a hybrid or condi weapon. It needs to be a complimentary weapon to a power build, there’s no way it could ever be a main weapon. I don’t see your point sry