Guild Wars 2

The Reaper’s scythe is to large. Its SO large it breaks immersion. It does not fit properly into a Charr’s hands… and the blade clips into the floor everywhere you go.

I love the spec, traits, and build versatility this spec offers. I also love the idea of the spec, the front line bruiser of chilling death.But I will never use it because it looks comically ridiculous.

It should be…. errrm… HALF the size it is now… because then it would STILL BE 1/3RD LARGER THAN THE LARGEST TWO HANDED WEAPONS IN THE GAME.

I know you guys are thinking, “but.. but… we wanted it to feel like Pyramid Head….”

Not even Pyramid Head could wield that kitten thing…. lets not forget that the animations for Pyramid Head, in both the game and movie, are SLOW! He heft’s the sword with difficulty whats scary is that he does it anyways! Relentlessly!

Imagine a sword at that scale.

It makes Cloud’s buster sword look like a Bowie Knife…. and really, Cloud’s buster sword is in the top end of giant hunks of metal that don’t scream kitten stupid when swung that fast. (this point can be argued… but if Cloud were built like a Charr…)

And if your stuck on keeping the scythe that large…. make the character model drag the thing along behind him, and make the first swing in the chain take much longer, and hit harder, because of the sheer force it takes to get the blasted thing moving.

now… you may be saying…. “but its made of shadows…. and does not weigh anything.”

Ok… ok… sure….

Following that logic, there is no reason for it not to be the right SIZE!

No weight = no mass = moves at the speed of light = no reason to be ridiculously out of proportion.

I’m not worried about it being swung at me if I’m ONLY GOING TO BE HIT WITH THE KITTEN SHAFT!!!! All hail the mildly bladed tree trunk of doom!

…now perhaps its just Charr.

but seeing as my necromancer, and my favorite toon that I play, is a charr… I’m kitten out of luck.

There is a reason that the grim reaper is frightening, and that its shape and style has not been changed.

Something quietly grim, waiting to take your soul is scary

Something that is going to butcher you to death needs to look like it could pull it off.

When faced with this reaper, I’ll just run to the nearest hallway and totally undermine his plan, pull out my Smith and Wesson, and kill death.

At least you use a Smith and Wesson.

Oh and yeah, it’s huge, and not in the good way.

Agreed. Pick up a 15 foot pole and try to swing it around. It is simply not feasible, and it looks silly in a game that tries to be logical.

Cecilia.5179:

Agreed. Pick up a 15 foot pole and try to swing it around. It is simply not feasible, and it looks silly in a game that tries to be logical.

Does this game try to be logical? It’s high fantasy lol. And I’m pretty sure our scythes is not ACTUAL scythes of wood and iron/steel/mithril w/e. They’re created from magic or something necromancy. They’re probably as light as they need to be. Maybe they don’t weigh anything at all?

insaneseagull.7063:

Cecilia.5179:

Agreed. Pick up a 15 foot pole and try to swing it around. It is simply not feasible, and it looks silly in a game that tries to be logical.

Does this game try to be logical? It’s high fantasy lol. And I’m pretty sure our scythes is not ACTUAL scythes of wood and iron/steel/mithril w/e. They’re created from magic or something necromancy. They’re probably as light as they need to be. Maybe they don’t weigh anything at all?

I addressed this in my post.

According to relativity, items with no weight, or mass… must move at the speed of light, and thus, have no stationary state. So if it were weightless…. it could only be non present. (as it would move away faster than you could perceive it… meaning the current attack speed is much to slow if this is the case. ;p)

…and yes, the world is high fantasy…. with the following logical sensible things.

-The movements of players. Even Asura look top heavy and unbalanced… exactly how they would move.

-Cooking (some of the recipes you can actually use. IRL)

-All other crafting, at least attempts to be rational in its construction. (with the obscure mats, like blood having an obviously magical purpose.)

-Asurian dialogue talking about the “conservation of magic” which while fictional, is at least designed to be a physics allegory.

-ALL THE REST OF THE WEAPON ANIMATIONS (AND SIZES) IN THE GAME

Having this ONE ridiculous out-layer makes no Tyran (read earthly) sense.

In Silent Hill, Pyramid Head is a daemonic entity… and the only one of his kind (also the only sword user I can recall). In FF7, everyone has over-sized ridiculous weapons… it’s part of the world. Jason, their other big inspiration for the reaper…. used a machete… totally regular sized. These examples all fit the world they are in.

THIS FEATURE IS AS UNDESIRABLE AS THE BOBBLE-HEAD LABORATORY! Which, allows players to not participate, if they don’t want to break immersion.

I HAVE NO OPTION FOR A SOMEWHAT NORMAL SIZED SCYTHE, BUT I DO FOR MY HEAD. THEY BREAK IMMERSION IN EXACTLY THE SAME WAY.

Why am I so passionate you ask?

BECAUSE I LOVE THE REAPER!!!!
-the concept
-the rest of the artwork
-the trait lines
-the focus on chill (damage on chill trait needs an icon like the fear trait has)
-the addition of the greatsword and its totally sensible sweet looking animations.(chritophobia / final rest here i come!) (if you fix the kitten scythe)
-melee DS
-Robert Gee

please, I beg of you…. the size of the scythe is kitten awful…. please fix it

Have ribbons of dark energy, much like the scythe blade on focus 4 or when casting a staff mark extend out to be larger when swung…. not as a giant stick of stupid I’m forced to carry around… oh, and only buff the blade in size…. its the part that cuts things…. (or reaps souls.)

It feels like a sinister combination of Cloud and Sephiroth, i really like it. As human/sylvari the size is actually perfect.

I don’t like the extremely long stick, I wish the stick were shortened but the scythe blade made more visible.

How bout, they make an option that we can check off, and the option is, smaller scythe.
That way people like you can be happy with a small weapon, and people like me can be happy with a huge unrealistic one

I have to bump this thread.
I like the Reaper spec a lot so far but the Reaper’s Shroud Scythe scale really disturbs me (if not to say “makes me mad”) – it is ridiculously oversized!
I would be happy to see it scaled down or to get an option to switch the effect off / change size.

It’s out of scale the same way pyramid head’s blade is out of scale, and is by design. Functionally it can’t change either because the range of the skills is linked to the size of the weapon.

insaneseagull.7063:

Cecilia.5179:

Agreed. Pick up a 15 foot pole and try to swing it around. It is simply not feasible, and it looks silly in a game that tries to be logical.

Does this game try to be logical? It’s high fantasy lol. And I’m pretty sure our scythes is not ACTUAL scythes of wood and iron/steel/mithril w/e. They’re created from magic or something necromancy. They’re probably as light as they need to be. Maybe they don’t weigh anything at all?

That’s the joke.

I’m totally aware about the concept behind the Reapers design, it just doesn’t excuse (from my point of view) that it looks so ridiculous. For me personally such implementation doesn’t gives a feel of “Shambling Monstrosity” but rather ruins the immersion.
But well…

making it an option seems like the best choice, because it makes everyone happy

the size is perfect

This is why we can never have nice things. Fortunately, Arena net isn’t going to waste their time trying to make a few people happy, consdering the amount of resources require.

Whenever I swing my scythe, I have to think of Soul Eater…and it feels awesome! Look at the sweet and somewhat over the top GS animations. The animations and the scythe fit the theme of the reaper.
You are an unstoppable, creepy monster hunting down your enemies.

Hey to be “that guy” but just because it’s massless doesn’t mean it moves at the speed of light since a very physically limited being still has to swing it, it doesn’t move on its own.

Personally, I’m quite happy with the size of the scythe. Seems like my Necro could slash up dozens of foes with it each time he swings that thing around. And regarding our as of now rather limited AoE from simple weapon skills, that makes me really happy.

Did you honestly try to relate a fantasy game to basic physics? I guess they should also remove conjure weapons because that is a spontaneous creation of matter (don’t give me some “converted energy to matter” BS because a human can’t do that with its mind) and the entire Revenant and Necromancer classes because souls don’t exist according to science. I understand your reasoning but trying I bring physics into this is less logical than the size of the scythe itself.

Charblaze.6958:

insaneseagull.7063:

Cecilia.5179:

Agreed. Pick up a 15 foot pole and try to swing it around. It is simply not feasible, and it looks silly in a game that tries to be logical.

Does this game try to be logical? It’s high fantasy lol. And I’m pretty sure our scythes is not ACTUAL scythes of wood and iron/steel/mithril w/e. They’re created from magic or something necromancy. They’re probably as light as they need to be. Maybe they don’t weigh anything at all?

That’s the joke.

The problem is that it is a joke.

RedSpectrum.1975:

Hey to be “that guy” but just because it’s massless doesn’t mean it moves at the speed of light since a very physically limited being still has to swing it, it doesn’t move on its own.

this may be hard to understand.. (it was for me…) but objects that are truly massless, are moving at the speed of light that just how physics works.

Paulash.5814:

Did you honestly try to relate a fantasy game to basic physics? I guess they should also remove conjure weapons because that is a spontaneous creation of matter (don’t give me some “converted energy to matter” BS because a human can’t do that with its mind) and the entire Revenant and Necromancer classes because souls don’t exist according to science. I understand your reasoning but trying I bring physics into this is less logical than the size of the scythe itself.

No, I honestly didn’t it was an allegorical way to describe how this one element feels out of place when compared to the rest of the game. explaining that physics could be lined up with existent things in the game was not to say “this game should follow physics” it was to say “this item breaks the immersion of the world in a way that all other game elements do not.”

(For the record, science does not rule out the soul as such, it simply redefines it to mean “the electrical impulses in the brain that produce the phenomena of consciousness.” Science simply makes it clear that there is no reason to believe that the “soul” persists beyond death. If you want to believe it, go right on ahead… just please don’t get involved with the school board… or ISIS. TY. )

While making scythe size an option seems nice, this misses the point. Said quite simply, a different graphical effect would be cooler and less immersion breaking.

I propose the following.

Make the scythe 1/3rd larger than a scythe would be in scale to the character model thus retaining the giant kitten monster flavor. Then, when swung, have the blade of the scythe “extend” with a “sheath” of solid black energy around the blade extending it to roughly 1/3rd larger than the size the blade is now. This scythe blade (whose graphic we already use for staff and focus…) would increase in opacity rapidly, from 0-50% in the first 1/8 sec of the animation, gain 100% opacity for the duration, then “flicker” off during the last 1/2-1/4 second. This way it feels like the reaper is flowing energy, and intent, into the blade, when it is in position to be used.

Also, the offset of the scythe’s current color, with its icy blue-black-green effect would be complimented by the jet black deadly texture, and would synergize the graphics with existent weapons.

In other words…. “STILL OVER THE TOP, BIG kitten, MADE OF ENERGY, NON IMERSION BREAKING SOUL CRUSHING MONSEREROUS.”

I mentioned in past threads about this. I also dislike the size If this thing. WAY over the top, I mean… I don’t care that much about it, but I still agree.

I like it, plz Anet dont change the Scythe

I like it too. I’d rather they not change it.

I’ll just chime in and say I agree with the OP. The scythe looks silly and entirely out of character unlike the above mentioned pyramid head sword.

Take Sephiroth’s sword for example. When drawn at around the 6-7ft mark it looks fine. When drawn at the 10ft mark it’s comically awful.

Let’s also consider this, the scythe the Reaper conjures is nothing more than a construct and not a real object.

PERSONALLY, I think it would look neater in general if every swing caused it to extend. So the scythe starts out “practical” but extends it’s dark energy with each swing.

This is sad.

If you guys dislike the animation that much, please go play another class.

That being said,

Anet,

Please keep up the awesome kitten work, great looking reaper in general and I appreciate the focus we have had to our class.

It’s like the headless rider from durarara and it’s awesome.

I’d much prefer they try to work on getting the actual weapon(s) to function a bit better (out the door) and leave the aesthetics to another time.

Is it logical, not really, but neither was pyramid head’s sword (as was shown above).

Honestly, I dont mind the size, what I do mind, is the fact that the only race who seems to actually hold the scythe in their hands, is humans, every other race isnt doing it, and sure you wont notice it unless you look at yourself from the front while in reaper, but once you do, it quickly becomes an eyesore.

It’s well sized on other races besides Charr. Maybe it’s just Charr that needs to be scaled down a little? I don’t feel it too large on my sylvari.

I like the scythe, I hope they don’t change it.

It’s a spectral weapon. It’s okay if it clips.

Celestina.2894:

PERSONALLY, I think it would look neater in general if every swing caused it to extend. So the scythe starts out “practical” but extends it’s dark energy with each swing.

Yes, exactly.

Tyriark.7825:

This is sad.

If you guys dislike the animation that much, please go play another class.

That being said,

Anet,

Please keep up the awesome kitten work, great looking reaper in general and I appreciate the focus we have had to our class.

For the record I do play other classes. All of them but engineer in fact. But in my opinion, none of the are as fun as necro or reaper.

Let me explain how this whole thing feels… as a long time lover of the necro class.

Imaging you have a juvanile and short sighted tatoo from your youth. (Stock necro) and you go to a world renowned cover up artist. (Robert Gee). He finishes the cover work in record time, and does a photo realistic, beautifully shaded portrait of someone important to you, and your heart sings with the attention he paid to your wants and needs (reaper traits, concept, and the body of reaper shroud.)… but then when you get home, and get a chance to look in the mirror again (beta weekend.) YOU SEE THAT THE KITTEN PHOTO-REALISTIC PORTRAIT HAS ANIME EYES!

The scythe is really kitten silly.

Oh… and for the record… when fighting next to a reaper…. any reaper…. thier scythe tends to clip into your camera its so freaking long.

Tommyknocker.6089:

I’d much prefer they try to work on getting the actual weapon(s) to function a bit better (out the door) and leave the aesthetics to another time.

Is it logical, not really, but neither was pyramid head’s sword (as was shown above).

Fyi they have seprate, art, and design teams… they can do both at once while loosing nothing.

Rising Dusk.2408:

It’s out of scale the same way pyramid head’s blade is out of scale, and is by design. Functionally it can’t change either because the range of the skills is linked to the size of the weapon.

Sorry for the double post… but look at the link this fella posted… the blade of the scythe, and the sword he’s using are in scale… now put that blade on a 30 ft stick. Thats where the current scythe is.

Actually i love having that big-kitten scyte is just so over the top and the whirls it does feel exagerated and powerful!
However, probably having the handle shortened might reduce some clipping problems… even tought i lvoe them too. lol.

Also… please don’ t call phisics or something comparable to reality… because magic.

BrokenGlass.9356:

…snip

I’d much prefer they try to work on getting the actual weapon(s) to function a bit better (out the door) and leave the aesthetics to another time.

Is it logical, not really, but neither was pyramid head’s sword (as was shown above).

Fyi they have seprate, art, and design teams… they can do both at once while loosing nothing.

Then let me rephrase it. So long as the art department can get the final out by the 23rd I could care less if it looked like the good year blimp on a pogo stick, but to delay the release over this, to me, would be a waste of the customers time. It needs to work well and have a more liquid feel to it, the aesthetics mean little or nothing to me.

Tommyknocker.6089:

BrokenGlass.9356:

…snip

I’d much prefer they try to work on getting the actual weapon(s) to function a bit better (out the door) and leave the aesthetics to another time.

Is it logical, not really, but neither was pyramid head’s sword (as was shown above).

Fyi they have seprate, art, and design teams… they can do both at once while loosing nothing.

Then let me rephrase it. So long as the art department can get the final out by the 23rd I could care less if it looked like the good year blimp on a pogo stick, but to delay the release over this, to me, would be a waste of the customers time. It needs to work well and have a more liquid feel to it, the aesthetics mean little or nothing to me.

You and I are more or less in agreement. .. but an edit like this is as simple as…. open model editor, drag the scale slider down…. open animation editor…. spend an hour tweaking the position, per race…

So. About 6 hours of work? Realisticly… so take one of the team of animators…

“Hey jim, grab an intern and go fix this by the end of the day.”

Its a scythe its supposed to be large, and scary looking. Its 170 range, it annoys me in this game where the weapon doesn’t hit the enemy yet does dmg this size is perfect for the skills ranges.

Don’t you dare complain about my airplane wing.

MadOtaku.8532:

Its a scythe its supposed to be large, and scary looking. Its 170 range, it annoys me in this game where the weapon doesn’t hit the enemy yet does dmg this size is perfect for the skills ranges.

It is scary looking….(and the model does look great) but I’m sure that the Asura scythe is still inside 170 range…. and I’m sure the charr scythe is much, much more than 170 (try 370 or so).

This is why I suggested the expanding energy effect.

If you’ve ever held a real scythe (I have, go to an antique shop) they are about 5 1/2 feet long, with a 3 1/2 foot blade… and a curved handle, with a right angle handle half way up to make it rotate in your grip as it swings….

…so if you wanted to make a monstrous one… it would be say, 7 1/2 feet long with a 5 1/2 foot blade. that’s monstrous for a human.

a 9 foot tall charr, would be swinging a say 11 ft, scythe with a 7 foot blade…

NOT a 26ft scythe, with a 9ft blade.

(side note, the blade of a scythe is long and thin, not flared like the model in game…. its a cutting weapon, not a stabbing or chopping weapon (or farm tool, really))

I’m just saying, make it look to scale… and if it needs to be that large of some reason then make it expand to be that large.

If you wanna see how stupid it really is, go pop DS, and wait, ooc till your toon puts it away on your back… it could clip low flying planes out of the sky.

sorry double post again…. but I needed to check and see.

I’ve made necros of all races now, just to test this. and its just as bod on the smallest asura, as it is on the largest norn. Its just about 4 times your character’s height. and makes all the Greatswords look like daggers.

im extremely disheartened.

I’m big on the semi-realism aspects in this game. I like using weapons that make sense (like, I won’t use shields with holes in them unless the class using it is using it as a magic tool rather than a normal shield, that sort of thing). While it is fantasy, I do like a bit of “fantasy realism”.

But I have no problem with the scythe. From both the way it looks and the way its just conjured out of thin air on a whim, its most likely made of magic and not solid matter. As such, it being insanely oversized doesn’t hurt my immersion at all, personally. There are so many things that magic has been shown to do in this game that conjuring a 15 foot demonic scythe doesn’t seem out of place at all.

Is this really a troll post to try to distract Robert from focusing on real issues?

You can propably stop asking for a downscale. Iirc RG said in the POI that the Scthe was intentionally oversized to show other players in sPvP “oh kitten here comes the Reaper”. Basically clarity. Yes, I know this is BS as a smaller Scythe would also do the job, and yes, it this kind of clarity isn’t there for the other Elite Specs, but I doubt they will change that concept at this stage of developement.

I personally have no issues with the size of the scythe. I really want them to make special icons for every Elite Spec though, so you can see at the start of a PvP match or people joining a party “ok my team/enemy/party has a Reaper , a Chronomancer, a Guardian and two Eles” and plan accordingly.

I kind of like the size, gives me a understanding of the range of the weapon. If it were reduced to a more “realistic” size you would either lose range on the circle of attack, or be hitting things far from the end of your scythe. Neither of those seem fun so leave it as is.

Maybe instead of the scythe scaling down, the shrouded character should scale up.

Massive shrouded asuras op.

ODB.6891:

Is this really a troll post to try to distract Robert from focusing on real issues?

He’s doing design on traits, and balancing, and tuning. Not, the art team. But he did say that he would “mention my thread to the art team”.

L Step.8659:

Maybe instead of the scythe scaling down, the shrouded character should scale up.

Massive shrouded asuras op.

This is a change i could wholeheartedly embrace…. If the scythe stayed the same size it is now, and the DS character scaled up to meet it!!?!?!?

BLOODY AWESOME!
So I don’t expect any changes, but I’d love it if they fixed it.

It’s a spectral scythe. I doubt it weigts much if anything at all.

I like how it is now.

L Step.8659:

Maybe instead of the scythe scaling down, the shrouded character should scale up.

Massive shrouded asuras op.

Oh this is a perfect job for the box of fun! Someone make a 50 foot tall Scythe!

not big enuff could use a size/range boost