Guild Wars 2

Not sure I’m fully understand the appointment of staff now. Before patch I used it in rather good condition builds with corruption skills for transfer and terror. Now terror and corruption traits at same column so the option loses half of its appeal. In addition in PvE staff lost half of its bleedings in primary (in my opinion) condition skill – mark of blood. I decided that it could be used in physical builds, perhaps. However, its physical damage (I will speak frankly) is ridiculous. The only option coming to my mind now: a mediocre life force generator at ranged combat for “shroud-crit” build. However, this one, to put it mildly, can not be called “staff” build. Axe still remains preferred weapon with it.
I compared staff cond and physical performance with (as I think) engineer’s analogue of this weapon – grenades kit. And I can not fail to note that the staff several times(!) loses in both aspects. Not that I was very upset. However don’t see the point to do something by one class if the other doing it several times better.

I love the staff necromancer concept itself . Like the style or something…
Therefore, I ask for advice of experts: how to use staff without being fully crap.

Sorry for poor English, btw

It is utility. You use it to limit the movement of your enemies, you use it to chill and poison -> cd increase and lower healing, you use it to get rid of conditions, and you use it to fear enemies (to stop stomps and control the battlefield)

Oh, and you spam 1 for lifeforce

Malchior.1928:

It is utility. You use it to limit the movement of your enemies, you use it to chill and poison -> cd increase and lower healing, you use it to get rid of conditions, and you use it to fear enemies (to stop stomps and control the battlefield)

Oh, and you spam 1 for lifeforce

Don’t forget the higher dmg inflicted when entering DS with the staff equipped, since DS skills’ dmg uses the weapon dmg of the weapon actually equipped.

Galandil.9641:

Malchior.1928:

It is utility. You use it to limit the movement of your enemies, you use it to chill and poison -> cd increase and lower healing, you use it to get rid of conditions, and you use it to fear enemies (to stop stomps and control the battlefield)

Oh, and you spam 1 for lifeforce

Don’t forget the higher dmg inflicted when entering DS with the staff equipped, since DS skills’ dmg uses the weapon dmg of the weapon actually equipped.

True! although in the (near) future when HoT comes out, greatsword will be able to fill that role as well.

Doubt it. You’ll still need staff if you’re using greatsword o generate life force from range.

In PVP I use it as advanced warning vs stealth.

So nothing better than far range LF generator and two controll spells?

It can also be great for tagging mobs? Really the utility is were it shines.

I love it because of the above reasons, and with the recent buffs, you only have one staff trait now, which will let all the marks generate lifeforce and be unblockable. I do with it had more power options though. It seems to generally favor condition builds.

Also if you want to be a celestrial monkey necro, taking staff is the best option for it.

the staff never leave my 2nd weapon slot, it works well with both condi and power build,

good for tagging, slowdown enemy movement, interupt stomping/rezzing enemy by giving em fear, etc, it’s been pretty useful for me until now…pve, wvw or pvp…

Staff is pretty solid for condi, still not amazing compared to a “proper” condi weapon, but it works better since it actually deals damage in a condi build. On power/bunker/support it pretty much has nothing special except being ranged, which allows for ranged LF/control/“damage”.

Well… Yet it does not sound like something good, but as a lack of something better…

Maybe I do not understand something but staff necro can normaly hold only 6-8 bleeding on target of all conditions. This, I would say, is quite dull. Even ele can make 5 times more cond damage with his staff, without losing control. Well… same for power damage too…
The engineer now is able to easily hold 20+ stacks of bleeding, 3-5 burning, 25 vulner and endless criple at 5 targets SOLO. For comparison. Can blind and freeze and poison, water fields, many blasts… and much-much more.
Thief ~ 30+ aoe bleed, 5 poison, blind, criple…
Warrior ~ 6 aoe burn, 10+ to target (1-shot now)
If you suddenly have to choose between an staff necromancer and engi, or ele, or cond war, of thief, etc… whom will you choose? Necromancer?

I just do not understand: the staff is really so miserable in comparison with other profession’s AoE\Cond weapons, or am I missing something important?

You’re starting to compare staff to whole builds. While staff necro doesn’t look as impressive, you have to remember it’s not really a weapin you sit on. Throw out whatever marks you’d need, like mark of blood and chilblains, or transfer the conditions that are on you, or fear an enemy to get some breathing room/interrupt an action. After you’ve done this you switch back to whatever weapon you do your actual damage with.

But you’re also not wrong on necros lacking a better power range weapon, that role should be filled by Axe, but axe is just pitiful in every way. Even when paired with a focus. It just sucks in range, life force regen, AoE, vul stacking, and axe has no good traits either. So you’re not entirely wrong.

Purpose? For the staff? It doesnt need a purpose. A Necro without the staff isnt really a Necro, that’s its “purpose”. Imagine going Guardian without a staff. That’s exactly like the Necro staff.

For the people that think its a condi weapon… think again. Because its not. Its really just a pure power weapon with some condi based utilities (you want duration on that fear/chill/poision, not damage). Use it as such and the staff can plow damage into groups. It wasnt a condi weapon before the patch and it certainly isnt after either.

Staff is only useful in pve for ranged fights and tagging stuff. Any build trying to deal damage will be better off with dagger or scepter in both weapon sets. I guess if you want to play the mindless 1 spam DS build you should take it for increased weapon damage.

In wvw, it is good because it can tag a lot of targets, and has an aoe interrupt.

In pvp, I consider staff to be mandatory for pretty much any build. Being able to lay marks at your feet is really useful against stealthed opponents. Aoe fear is awesome for peeling, interrupting stomps, interrupting rezzes. You need at least two condition clears so staff covers one of those. Regen on mark of blood is massively underrated. Chill and poison are way stronger in pvp than any other gametype, and consistently have a huge impact on every single fight. The auto can build LF really quickly in teamfights or against mesmers.

Basically, you take staff in condition builds because it provides damaging conditions, condition removal, cc, and life force regen. You take it in power builds because there aren’t any other decent options. Axe gets hardcountered by anyone who can dodge, interrupt, or walk outside of 600 range, and scepter is a condition weapon (although it is still better than axe in power builds).

Basically, axe would need serious buffs for people to stop running staff as much. Until axe can reliably deal damage, and generate life force from range it will be miles behind staff in terms of effectiveness.

MeGaZlo.9516:

Well… Yet it does not sound like something good, but as a lack of something better…

I just do not understand: the staff is really so miserable in comparison with other profession’s AoE\Cond weapons, or am I missing something important?

Compare Necro Staff to say Warrior LB, Elementalist Staff, Mesmer Staff, Thief SB; these are all similarly long-range utility weapons that don’t necessarily bring damage (ele fire staff in a zerker build is the only real exception, but obviously they only get 1 weapon so you can consider fire their offensive second weapon set).

The large problem with staff compared to these other professions is the lack of actual utility that is unique and powerful, especially in combination with the rest of the profession. If you look at staff in a vacuum, you’ll see its AoE CC, conditions, stuff like that and think “wow this weapon seems okay”. But then you compare it to our other weapons, and you realize everything it does is done by our other weapons, often better, but at a shorter range. This is why Staff works much better for condi builds, the combination of Terror with Reaper’s Mark, and the damage from the conditions make it a much better fit for condi, whereas on power builds it literally does nothing unique except have range. This is even more true since Staff’s utility was nerfed due to condi builds.

Bhawb.7408:

This is why Staff works much better for condi builds, the combination of Terror with Reaper’s Mark, and the damage from the conditions make it a much better fit for condi, whereas on power builds it literally does nothing unique except have range.

Well, nothing unique for power builds except make you laugh at Thieves that kill themselves because they teleported into the marks you dropped on your feet. The range is only half the flexiblity of the staff. If that’s all you consider its use for in power builds, you’re using it wrong.

Dawdler.8521:

Bhawb.7408:

This is why Staff works much better for condi builds, the combination of Terror with Reaper’s Mark, and the damage from the conditions make it a much better fit for condi, whereas on power builds it literally does nothing unique except have range.

Well, nothing unique for power builds except make you laugh at Thieves that kill themselves because they teleported into the marks you dropped on your feet. The range is only half the flexiblity of the staff. If that’s all you consider its use for in power builds, you’re using it wrong.

I do not know what kind of thieves is this these, but the only ability of the staff which causes at least some damage – is a putrid mark. And as the power skill it is not the most… outstanding.
Well, let’s say so: it makes the same amount of damage every 20 seconds as guardian’s staff orb every 3 seconds. Damage of remaining abilities clearly suggests to us that this is not a power weapon.

I think thief must be dead on 3/4, at least, to kill himself on marks.

Staff needs the old marks back, Putrid mark used to be great group support and Mark of blood was better at applying bleeds.
https://web.archive.org/web/20120622051256/http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Putrid_Mark
https://web.archive.org/web/20121021081858/http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mark_of_Blood

nekretaal.6485:

Doubt it. You’ll still need staff if you’re using greatsword o generate life force from range.

Assuming you can switch weapons… I have a fealing you won’t.

Galandil.9641:

Malchior.1928:

It is utility. You use it to limit the movement of your enemies, you use it to chill and poison -> cd increase and lower healing, you use it to get rid of conditions, and you use it to fear enemies (to stop stomps and control the battlefield)

Oh, and you spam 1 for lifeforce

Don’t forget the higher dmg inflicted when entering DS with the staff equipped, since DS skills’ dmg uses the weapon dmg of the weapon actually equipped.

what is the diffrence betwin having main hand weapon+offhand weapon stats combined to two handed weapon stats? nothing

Sandrox.9524:

Galandil.9641:

Malchior.1928:

It is utility. You use it to limit the movement of your enemies, you use it to chill and poison -> cd increase and lower healing, you use it to get rid of conditions, and you use it to fear enemies (to stop stomps and control the battlefield)

Oh, and you spam 1 for lifeforce

Don’t forget the higher dmg inflicted when entering DS with the staff equipped, since DS skills’ dmg uses the weapon dmg of the weapon actually equipped.

what is the diffrence betwin having main hand weapon+offhand weapon stats combined to two handed weapon stats? nothing

Weapon damage != stats

Staff is like a pair of one size fits all pants that cannot be depended on to make you look good. It is utility that can be used on any spec, but it is not the staple on any of those specs.

Utility is it’s purpose, between DS and your other set it can fit nicely. My last days on condition necro pre patch were without staff but now it’s kind of like SB on thief.

Galandil.9641:

Sandrox.9524:

Galandil.9641:

Malchior.1928:

It is utility. You use it to limit the movement of your enemies, you use it to chill and poison -> cd increase and lower healing, you use it to get rid of conditions, and you use it to fear enemies (to stop stomps and control the battlefield)

Oh, and you spam 1 for lifeforce

Don’t forget the higher dmg inflicted when entering DS with the staff equipped, since DS skills’ dmg uses the weapon dmg of the weapon actually equipped.

what is the diffrence betwin having main hand weapon+offhand weapon stats combined to two handed weapon stats? nothing

Weapon damage != stats

You are not making sense here….

Sandrox.9524:

Galandil.9641:

Sandrox.9524:

Galandil.9641:

Malchior.1928:

It is utility. You use it to limit the movement of your enemies, you use it to chill and poison -> cd increase and lower healing, you use it to get rid of conditions, and you use it to fear enemies (to stop stomps and control the battlefield)

Oh, and you spam 1 for lifeforce

Don’t forget the higher dmg inflicted when entering DS with the staff equipped, since DS skills’ dmg uses the weapon dmg of the weapon actually equipped.

what is the diffrence betwin having main hand weapon+offhand weapon stats combined to two handed weapon stats? nothing

Weapon damage != stats

You are not making sense here….

Unless something changes or I’m wrong, Deathshroud only factors in the mainland weapon for damage. Not the offhand.

Sandrox.9524:

You are not making sense here….

Incredible, “100k kills and counting” in your sign, and you still have no clue how Death Shroud skills’ damage works.

It’s pretty simple, though, and a quick search on the wiki or a rapid test in game would have been better than going on in making posts that make you look silly.

Every time you use a damaging skill in the game, you inflict a damage = weapon dmg * (base power + might stacks) * skill coefficient [* damage modifers] [* vuln stacks on the target]/ target armor.

When you use DS skills, the weapon damage used is the one of the weapon currently equipped when entering shroud.

If you’re using main + off-hand weapons, skills 1-3 use the main hand weapon damage, while skills 4-5 use the off-hand weapon damage.
If you’re using staff, all skills use the weapon damage of the staff.

Ascended staves have a range of 1034-1166 (avg 1100).
Ascended daggers have a range of 970-1030 (avg 1000).
Ascended warhorns have a range of 855-945 (avg 900).

That means that, on average, if you have a staff equipped when entering DS, you’ll make +10% dmg on 1-3 and +22,2% on 4-5 compared to the dmg you inflict when equipping a dagger/warhorn in DS.

And I don’t even main necro, lol.

Galandil.9641:

Sandrox.9524:

You are not making sense here….

Incredible, “100k kills and counting” in your sign, and you still have no clue how Death Shroud skills’ damage works.

It’s pretty simple, though, and a quick search on the wiki or a rapid test in game would have been better than going on in making posts that make you look silly.

Every time you use a damaging skill in the game, you inflict a damage = weapon dmg * (base power + might stacks) * skill coefficient [* damage modifers] [* vuln stacks on the target]/ target armor.

When you use DS skills, the weapon damage used is the one of the weapon currently equipped when entering shroud.

If you’re using main + off-hand weapons, skills 1-3 use the main hand weapon damage, while skills 4-5 use the off-hand weapon damage.
If you’re using staff, all skills use the weapon damage of the staff.

Ascended staves have a range of 1034-1166 (avg 1100).
Ascended daggers have a range of 970-1030 (avg 1000).
Ascended warhorns have a range of 855-945 (avg 900).

That means that, on average, if you have a staff equipped when entering DS, you’ll make +10% dmg on 1-3 and +22,2% on 4-5 compared to the dmg you inflict when equipping a dagger/warhorn in DS.

And I don’t even main necro, lol.

Never knew this actually. Not making any sense still. Clearly it shouldnt function that way,seems a bit unreal.

No need to be salty,my main is not necro aswell,and if it were I doubt that I would have known this wierd thing.

PS:that signature is outdated,it is 170k almost.

edit:Just checked wiki-and saw nothing that you mentioned(maybe you can point me out where exactly) and tested it and the dmg is the same.Dunno what you on about.

Damage in DS uses your weapon damage, its a well known and really easy to test fact. Staff will cause your Life Blast to deal 10% more damage than using another weapon set

Sandrox.9524:

edit:Just checked wiki-and saw nothing that you mentioned(maybe you can point me out where exactly) and tested it and the dmg is the same.Dunno what you on about.

1) http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Life_Transfer – In damage calculation, Life Transfer uses weapon damage from the off-hand.
It doesn’t mention it on the other DS skills, but that doesn’t mean it’s not true.

2) Then you must be doing the test very badly. Here, some proof and numbers, made vs the Indestructible Golem in the pvp lobby.

Life transfer – 234/492 (base/crit) with staff, 191/401 with warhorn, ratio 1.22/1.22.
Avg weapon dmg of staff 1048, avg dmg of warhorn 857, ratio 1.22.

Dark path – 242 with staff, 216 with dagger, ratio 1.12
Avg dmg of dagger 952.5, ratio staff/dagger 1.1

If you want I can provide you the screenshots of the damage. :P

Edit: can’t attach more than one img, there’re 3 more, but trust me, those are the numbers.

Bhawb.7408:

Damage in DS uses your weapon damage, its a well known and really easy to test fact. Staff will cause your Life Blast to deal 10% more damage than using another weapon set

Show me where it says,and since 10% more dmg is not that much of a differ,you cant really tell,I just tested and got same numbers +10-20 give or take

Galandil.9641:

Sandrox.9524:

edit:Just checked wiki-and saw nothing that you mentioned(maybe you can point me out where exactly) and tested it and the dmg is the same.Dunno what you on about.

1) http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Life_Transfer – In damage calculation, Life Transfer uses weapon damage from the off-hand.
It doesn’t mention it on the other DS skills, but that doesn’t mean it’s not true.

2) Then you must be doing the test very badly. Here, some proof and numbers, made vs the Indestructible Golem in the pvp lobby.

Life transfer – 234/492 (base/crit) with staff, 191/401 with warhorn, ratio 1.22/1.22.
Avg weapon dmg of staff 1048, avg dmg of warhorn 857, ratio 1.22.

Dark path – 242 with staff, 216 with dagger, ratio 1.12
Avg dmg of dagger 952.5, ratio staff/dagger 1.1

If you want I can provide you the screenshots of the damage. :P

Edit: can’t attach more than one img, there’re 3 more, but trust me, those are the numbers.

Well,I didnt tested it with life transfer,I tested it with life blast,and not in pvp,tested it in wvw on same mob.+ in life blast wiki page it dosnt mention the same thing as life transfer.

Sandrox.9524:

Well,I didnt tested it with life transfer,I tested it with life blast,and not in pvp,tested it in wvw on same mob.+ in life blast wiki page it dosnt mention the same thing as life transfer.

I don’t care what the wiki says or not, in-game proof trumps anything that’s written on the wiki.

And if you want to test with Life Blast, then you should use a wide sample since the weapons have a range and not a fixed value for damage, so you’ll get on the single hits some variance.

Still, on a wider sample, you’ll get nonetheless that even Life Blast will make +10% dmg with staff compared to dagger.

Tests should be done appropriately, not in wvw on random mobs and with just 2-3 hits per skill/weapon lol.

TheLastNobody.8319:

Sandrox.9524:

Galandil.9641:

Sandrox.9524:

Galandil.9641:

Malchior.1928:

It is utility. You use it to limit the movement of your enemies, you use it to chill and poison -> cd increase and lower healing, you use it to get rid of conditions, and you use it to fear enemies (to stop stomps and control the battlefield)

Oh, and you spam 1 for lifeforce

Don’t forget the higher dmg inflicted when entering DS with the staff equipped, since DS skills’ dmg uses the weapon dmg of the weapon actually equipped.

what is the diffrence betwin having main hand weapon+offhand weapon stats combined to two handed weapon stats? nothing

Weapon damage != stats

You are not making sense here….

Unless something changes or I’m wrong, Deathshroud only factors in the mainland weapon for damage. Not the offhand.

No if i remember correctly the first 3 skills should use the weapon damage of your mainhand and the last 2 should use you offhand weapondamage as modifer in the calculation for the damage of the DS skill.

And if you use staff (or any two handed weapon) then all 5 DS skills use the staff weapon damage as modifer.

Sandrox.9524:

Bhawb.7408:

Damage in DS uses your weapon damage, its a well known and really easy to test fact. Staff will cause your Life Blast to deal 10% more damage than using another weapon set

Show me where it says,and since 10% more dmg is not that much of a differ,you cant really tell,I just tested and got same numbers +10-20 give or take

The 10% difference comes from the 10% difference in the weapon damage of staff and dagger/axe. And since weapon damage goes multiplicative into the formula the enddamge difference will still be 10%. It actually simple maths.

Sandrox.9524:

Show me where it says,and since 10% more dmg is not that much of a differ,you cant really tell,I just tested and got same numbers +10-20 give or take

The wiki isn’t a holy, faultless source, it is written by players and very often wrong when it comes to strange interactions. For example, the minion wiki is wrong, minions don’t inherit any player attributes like it suggests.

I literally just tested it and staff very obviously deals more damage, you can get LB to 1k without staff really easily, and then it hits around 1100 with staff, so if you need someone to tell you it deals more and can’t do a simple test in game I’m not sure how to help you man.

Staff doesnt really have a purpose. Its a bad weapon. I suppose the only real purpose is the 1200 range and the two handed weapon power for DS.

Death shroud skills #1, #2 and #3 use main hand weapon damage and #4 and #5 use off hand weapon damage.
The reason staff does more damage over all is because it has higher weapon damage compared to a 1h weapon as well as much higher than off hand weapons. It makes all ds skills better because it technically counts as main and offhand.

Exotic staff has an average 96 higher weapon damage than dagger and 200 more than a war horn. Damage is Wd*coeff*power/armour so you can see why it does more damage.

spoj.9672:

Staff doesnt really have a purpose. Its a bad weapon. I suppose the only real purpose is the 1200 range and the two handed weapon power for DS.

Maybe but staff is still our most used weapon set in pvp. And that is not only because the alternatives are bad but also due the fact that long range, fear, chill, poison, condi transfer and reliable LF generation are actually really good in pvp not to mention the ability to place marks beforehand (really good against those kittenty stealth professions).

That said i would like higher damage coefficents on some of the marks or more damage conditions (like 3 bleeds on mark of blood).

Muchacho.2390:

spoj.9672:

Staff doesnt really have a purpose. Its a bad weapon. I suppose the only real purpose is the 1200 range and the two handed weapon power for DS.

Maybe but staff is still our most used weapon set in pvp.

Isn’t that WH despite it’s OH??

It’s used because it’s our only real ranged weapon and our only weapon designed with some sort of utility in mind. It also allows us to escape bad players.

It’s probably our best weapon just because it’s needed on almost any worthwhile build in PvP as bad as that sounds.

Muchacho.2390:

Maybe but staff is still our most used weapon set in pvp. And that is not only because the alternatives are bad but also due the fact that long range, fear, chill, poison, condi transfer and reliable LF generation are actually really good in pvp not to mention the ability to place marks beforehand (really good against those kittenty stealth professions).

Staff is the most used literally only because it is our only second condi option, and our only long range power option. Don’t confuse it being the only option for being a good option.

Sagat.3285:

Muchacho.2390:

spoj.9672:

Staff doesnt really have a purpose. Its a bad weapon. I suppose the only real purpose is the 1200 range and the two handed weapon power for DS.

Maybe but staff is still our most used weapon set in pvp.

Isn’t that WH despite it’s OH??

Mhh i dont think so but they could be close.

Think about it, if you dont take staff chances are you run dagger/offhand+axe/offhand. And i think there are still more condition necros that run scepter/dagger+ staff or, if they are not enough anymore, power necros with dagger/dagger+ staff then necros with dagger/offhand+axe/offhand.

Bhawb.7408:

Muchacho.2390:

Maybe but staff is still our most used weapon set in pvp. And that is not only because the alternatives are bad but also due the fact that long range, fear, chill, poison, condi transfer and reliable LF generation are actually really good in pvp not to mention the ability to place marks beforehand (really good against those kittenty stealth professions).

Staff is the most used literally only because it is our only second condi option, and our only long range power option. Don’t confuse it being the only option for being a good option.

Even for power builds i would argue that staff is better then our kittenty axe. Well atleast in pvp.

Heck even with the reaper spec we will most likely forced to use staff in pvp, simply for the one fact that we dont have the mobility so we do need the range and control via chill and fear. And will i agree that the damage of staff is terrible and needs buffs. The other things staff offers are good.

Bhawb.7408:

Sandrox.9524:

Show me where it says,and since 10% more dmg is not that much of a differ,you cant really tell,I just tested and got same numbers +10-20 give or take

The wiki isn’t a holy, faultless source, it is written by players and very often wrong when it comes to strange interactions. For example, the minion wiki is wrong, minions don’t inherit any player attributes like it suggests.

I literally just tested it and staff very obviously deals more damage, you can get LB to 1k without staff really easily, and then it hits around 1100 with staff, so if you need someone to tell you it deals more and can’t do a simple test in game I’m not sure how to help you man.

I did the simple test and it gave me same numbers on LB. Anyhow if this true then why no one reported this ? why anet ignoring this?

Heck in in pvp with zerk ammy life blase does 1132 with dagger below 600 units and 1300 damage with staff below 600 units.

Whenever ive PvP’d and taken a staff. Ive found that i pretty much never switch to staff. And whenever i do i almost always regret. Honestly no clue why i even still run it in PvP. WvW its fair because its ranged AoE spam. But sPvP…. Nope.

Sandrox.9524:

I did the simple test and it gave me same numbers on LB. Anyhow if this true then why no one reported this ? why anet ignoring this?

Because it isn’t a bug.

Bhawb.7408:

Sandrox.9524:

I did the simple test and it gave me same numbers on LB. Anyhow if this true then why no one reported this ? why anet ignoring this?

Because it isn’t a bug.

I do actually think it should be fixed for clarity sake to be fair. DS should have its own independant weapon power.