Guild Wars 2

Dhuumfire
Shroud skill 1 inflicts burning on your target.

Deals damage every second; stacks intensity. Burning (3s): 984 damage

This trait is overrated…by the devs. I have tried many combinations with it all of them have weighted me down. As stated by Robert the trait it supposed to be great with some burn duration well it seems that just to make the burning useful I would lose too much more than staying overtime in DS for a condition spec to be precise.

Suggestions:
1)Shroud skill 1 and 4 inflicts 1 stack of burning per hit.(suggested by ronpierce.2760)
2)Shroud skill 1 inflicts 1 stack of burning, inflict AoE burning upon entering Shround (similar to Weakening Shroud somewhat)
3)Increase burning to 4 sec(simple to do may not be enough for a GM)
4)Increase to 2 stacks

Edited suggestions:
5)Life Blast receive a decrease in cast times
6)Life Blast becomes Plague Bast traited
7)Dhuumfire applies to staff AA
8)Burning duration increase as foes’ health decrease
+66% 3 sec burning
33-66% 4 sec burning
-33% 5 sec burning
9)Additional effect : For each boon converted your foe receives 1 stack of burning for 1 sec(no ICD)
10)Applying burning to a poisoned foe adds an additional burning stack for 3 sec(no ICD)
11)Shroud #1 applies burning for 5 seconds. Cannot occur more than 5 times every 5 seconds
12)Additional effect: While in Shroud gain 15% additional condition damage
13)Dhuumfire now additionaly applies torment
14)Apply 1 stacks of burning for 3 sec. in an area around your target, when hitting a foe with shroud skill 1 (1sec ICD, range 300-600, number of targets 5)
15)Life blast applies a 2-3 seconds effect (not a condition, so it can’t be dispelled) that increases the damage of your conditions on the target by X% (15 at least?) – doesn’t stack
16)Life blast hits extend the duration of your conditions on the target by X seconds
17)Life blast procs all your damaging conditions on you target (indipendently of their tick timer)
18)Life blast deals damage based on your “condition damage” stat
19)Shroud skill 1 inflicts burning on your target and renews all stacks of burning.
20)Make life blast a double/triple hit skill
21)Decrease ds1 power scaling to match reaper shroud 1 and make the attack speeds similar.
22)Dhuumfire also applies to staff AA
Life Leech applies 1 stack of burning for 2 secs.
23)Dhummfire grants a fire aura each time it procs
24)Burning applied through Dhummfire removes a boon every 3 sec
25)Dhummfire applies a brand(6 sec) when you exist Shroud pull(900 range) marked foes and burn them(2 stacks 3 sec)
26)Striking a foe below the threshold reduces your CD lower than 66% 1 sec lower than 33% 2 sec
27)Burn duration increases by 1 sec per nearby foe (1200 radius)

Add your own suggestions and experience with it.

P.S: It currently reduces the range of Life Blast to 900 we expect it’s a bug.

Love that laSt part.

right now its balanced for the future reaper shroud….and sucks balls for death shroud.
trick is giving something to both shrouds worth having

i think combining suggestions 2,3 and 4 is the way to go.

so trait gives both:

A) AoE burn on entering shroud (1 stack@5 sec)….works well on shroud flashing builds and makes reaper shroud even better at melee

B)shroud skill 1 inflicts 1 stack (3 sec)burn at melee range (whatever that ends up being for reaper shroud); a 1stack (4sec) burn at range up to 600; 1 stack (5 sec) at range up to 900, and 2 stacks (3 sec) at range higher than 900………..this will at least start to make up for the inherent disadvantages LB will have vs. reaper shroud melee cleave, by giving better single target damage

Relshdan.6854:

right now its balanced for the future reaper shroud….and sucks balls for death shroud.
trick is giving something to both shrouds worth having

i think combining suggestions 2,3 and 4 is the way to go.

so trait gives both:

A) AoE burn on entering shroud (1 stack@5 sec)….works well on shroud flashing builds and makes reaper shroud even better at melee

B)shroud skill 1 inflicts 1 stack (3 sec)burn at melee range (whatever that ends up being for reaper shroud); a 1stack (4sec) burn at range up to 600; 1 stack (5 sec) at range up to 900, and 2 stacks (3 sec) at range higher than 900………..this will at least start to make up for the inherent disadvantages LB will have vs. reaper shroud melee cleave, by giving better single target damage

Then…even though Reaper should rely on necro balance and not the other way around…

5)Life Blast receives a decrease in cast time (could interfere with non condition necro specs but why balance it around Shroud Knight anyway?)

I actually was using this trait in my last times of condition necro pre patch it’s sad it turned out that bad. All the combinations I’ve tried involving Soul Reaping would have been better with FitG even going Death Magic was better and naturally Blood Magic. Even with might,vulnerability on Life Blast and Rending Shroud(a melee trait…) it’s not worth it I tried carrion as well.

Increase to 2stacks is my vote.

Give it 2 stacks with an icd of 1 second per target, that way base necro gets decent use (life blast probably won’t be hitting multiple times per second) and reaper gets roughly the same stacking so it won’t be op.

Dhuumfire is not worth it and our condi application is so bad compared to every condi build in the game not only due to our crappy access to burning but also due to our terrible ability to stack condis unless you count our condi redirects. In general I have shelved my condi Necro because it’s bad, and I feel our wvw builds have also gone to crap u less your talking about zergs.
Boring

Reaper does not exist yet, so it is foul play to factor it in to current balance imo. In this aspect, I swear, the Necromancer sometimes feels like the most self defeating thread. It feels like there are those of us who simply don’t want Necromancer to be good. Dhuumfire, as it is, is terrible. Even if it was moved to Soul Reaping Adept tier, there is still a chance people would not use it. Even the ele burn on crit trait that procs like Sigil of Air on a longer icd is more viable than this. This trait is like Master of Corruption, but instead of making our corruption skills worse, it makes our Condi dps worse whenever we use it. Honestly, they could split the RS and DS effect when the time comes and make the DS 1 feel as dangerous as it does on power builds by giving it something extreme like several stacks of burn.
/endrant

Gryph.8237:

Dhuumfire is not worth it and our condi application is so bad compared to every condi build in the game not only due to our crappy access to burning but also due to our terrible ability to stack condis unless you count our condi redirects. In general I have shelved my condi Necro because it’s bad, and I feel our wvw builds have also gone to crap u less your talking about zergs.
Boring

Terromancer has partially vanish but condition and boon control necro remains. I’m trying to get away from Blood Magic(it may be funny but I was expecting Parasitic Contagion to be useful vs players like a rewarding system for being active and smart with your conditions) but FitG is not a valid reason for me to use Soul Reaping. Even as a control condition necro you can still include dhuumfire with signets but it’s not worth it you are more efficient with the other lines. Dhuumfire is not for condition specs what Deathly Perception is to power specs.

Dhuumfire does not even have any synergy with full condi builds. You can’t stay in shroud to stack burning because you are not applying your other condis then.

It seems you have to run a hybrid if you want to use dhuumfire, that way you are not totally wasting the power scaling part of lifeblast.

I’ve actually been running Dhuumfire in pvp and enjoying it. Dhuumfire is not worth it as a primary damage source, and building full condi and relying on Dhuumfire is not going to work.

Rather, Dhuumfire is a powerful supplemental damage source. It’s great in a power-heavy build with Flame Legion runes. I personally use it with Celestial amulet because of my play style (jack of all trades, power/condi/sustain).

Build: http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=V44-_;1kHFJ0D4-KkJ0;9;479A;0136246148;4INl2h;1Bk-2Bk-20M

I’d prefer the I get something else…like…oh plague blast? -_- Dhuumfire is just so weak now and as others said, requires us to stay in deathshroud, which limits us to stacking bleeds and keeping our conditions going. I will say, I love the animation for it though.

@CratZ The old dhuumfire synced with condition necro the only issue with current one is that it takes too long for it to come to it’s mediocre potential. You will go in DS for a bit anyway it’s just need a higher dps currently it’s awful even with traited DS benefits.

@zone I am confident Spite woul have been better than Soul Reaping in your build for a cele one that is minus the rune of course. It doesn’t have to be a main damage source it just has to actually add to the dps. Your spec seems well thought out but that was not the original purpose of dhuumfire and neither it’s current at least how most of us see it and necro is the slowest at stacking conditions anyway.

First, I’d just like to see a split in some traits between Elite Specializations and regular professions.

We have just so many bullkitten traits like Dhuumfire, obviously tuned just for the Reaper.

Otherwise, give me Plague Blast and Dhuumfire is oki. ;3

Rym.1469:

First, I’d just like to see a split in some traits between Elite Specializations and regular professions.

We have just so many bullkitten traits like Dhuumfire, obviously tuned just for the Reaper.

Otherwise, give me Plague Blast and Dhuumfire is oki. ;3

Then…

6)Life Blast becomes Plague Blast

Also do you mean Life Blast becomes Plague Blast baseline or traited?

I think this issue just reflects the fact that Life Blast is too slow. If it had a decent attack speed this trait would be very worth while.

Ice Furl.4982:

I think this issue just reflects the fact that Life Blast is too slow. If it had a decent attack speed this trait would be very worth while.

I don’t want to recommend changes to baseline Life Blast simply because I don’t trust them on handling it for non condition specs and they tend to use perfect/unrealistic scenarios in balance. They usually take the easy way which is making the trait actually worthy I can openly say pre patch dhuumfire was better than post patch dhuumfire even the bugged range is a disappointment but then again I’m not sure what their intentions are with the trait anymore because so far it’s a fail.

Dhuumfire was never given to necros for condi builds. At it’s best it was good for hybrid necros but also gave power necros a bit of a boost. It was in spite so you had to assume it was a power boost. Now the current version is moved out of spite but still attached to a power skill. Condimanacers try to claim it because its technically condition damage but the skill is now ONLY useful for hybrid builds. With the new condi damage formula and changes to burning power necs really don’t have much use for it. So do you want to make an entire build around this mediocre trait?

They should change it back to activating on crits no matter the attack.. That would be the best fit. 2 stacks at 3 seconds with a 1 sec icd. Just get it off of life blast.

Condimancers want to claim it because the new burning mechanics is the primary reason we are being overshadowed by other classes condi builds. Unless they nerf burning they need to give condimancer better access to dhuumfire to be able to compete.

I agree on taking putting it back out from shroud and proc on crits. Although that wont help carrion condibuilds at all.

EDIT: actually the best idea is probably to increase the stacks from a single shot and give shroud a AoE burning on entering.

Maybe even make it 3 stacks and give it a 3 sec ICD or so. This way condinecros could just flash shroud, shoot 1 blast and return to normal condi rotation.

It’s possible to argue it was partially hybrid but the original design didn’t weight down condition necro and it was nerfed with condition necro meaning both are factored in as “condition necro”. The new design seems like they misunderstood lost of dps while in DS as a condition necro and made useless for it, pre patch wasn’t something you rely on it was just extra dps that wouldn’t weight you down. Power lines do offer condition options because they also used to carry condition duration Parasitic Contagion in Spite was obviously for full condition the power is extra just like Withering Precision in Curses simply because it’s the crit line.

For a GM it’s not doing good right now Unholy Sanctuary is getting more use. It’s a niche even in hybrid builds again pre patch dhuumfire was better than post patch dhuumfire it doesn’t stand out at all not even with burn duration,might stacking and vulnerability and it’s a GM.

Sagat.3285:

Rym.1469:

First, I’d just like to see a split in some traits between Elite Specializations and regular professions.

We have just so many bullkitten traits like Dhuumfire, obviously tuned just for the Reaper.

Otherwise, give me Plague Blast and Dhuumfire is oki. ;3

Then…

6)Life Blast becomes Plague Blast

Also do you mean Life Blast becomes Plague Blast baseline or traited?

Just a small window after switching to Shroud. Like in here:

@manveruppd If you’re asking about the graphic, it was made by me as part of suggestions for necromancer design before the patch. I posted finished version on reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3aghyy/graphics_necromancer_changes/

Who made that?
/15

Two stacks per hit with same duration would be fine. Would make it useful but not broken like guardians. /Balanced

I would just convert Dhuumfire to the HoT frost damage and make non-reaper 1200, again. Enough with the paltry fire on Necromancer.

The range nerf is not helping. I really hope its a bug and not intended feature. Otherwise its 100% proof that developers hate necro players.

Anchoku.8142:

I would just convert Dhuumfire to the HoT frost damage and make non-reaper 1200, again. Enough with the paltry fire on Necromancer.

That’s kind of lazy and reaper is supposed to be more chill theme than necro and that would end up as somewhat a nerf. The decreased range has to be a bug I’m not sure why is it still like that not sure also what test justified it’s current weak state.

I really like the idea of setting people on fire with life blast but it’s been pretty difficult to work with. I just threw this together and wanna try it in the morning. Chop it up.

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=V344Z;1kHFC0A43J-K0;9;4A97;0148137156;4Rw06U;1hoHAhoHA1k

Rym.1469:

@manveruppd If you’re asking about the graphic, it was made by made as part of suggestions for necromancer design before the patch. I posted finished version on reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3aghyy/graphics_necromancer_changes/

I missed that thread, nicely done! (Both on the graphic and the suggestions)

dood.7526:

I really like the idea of setting people on fire with life blast but it’s been pretty difficult to work with. I just threw this together and wanna try it in the morning. Chop it up.

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=V344Z;1kHFC0A43J-K0;9;4A97;0148137156;4Rw06U;1hoHAhoHA1k

It sounds and look cool that’s something necro always had theme…we just need it to actually be cool well hot in this case. They should be busy with post patch balance but this can’t slip under the radar especially since burning might get a nerf and bleeds and poison(even for thief) are weak.

Dhuumfire actually is nice when you use piercing trait; it can drop a lot of people pretty quickly (based on the group of pvp golems I tested on). However, the range nerf on it renders it almost completely useless in zerg v. zerg situations, and it doesn’t stack enough burning fast enough to be remotely effective on those you might hit.

Ideally, another stack or two of burning along with 1200 (or gasp! 1500 range) would make it acceptable to take an entire trait line for it. That way (for z v. z) you could target the guy closest to you and pierce through him and actually hit the 4 guys behind him.

I never understood why we have to always have unique i.e. gimmicky implementations of things. We had it on crit, but it was deemed too OP. Engis kept it on crit and stayed OP for over a year and still have it as a crit. We have silly hoops to jump through like landing lifeblast, a slow casting projectile, most condi builds don’t even want to waste what little life force they can generate just trying to proc a simple burn.

It’ll be a lot more useable on the reaper, but that’s not really an excuse for how it’s been for so long. They should just leave it on crit imo, especially since they never reverted our indirect nerfs from dhuumfire.

Thustlewhumber.7416:

Dhuumfire actually is nice when you use piercing trait; it can drop a lot of people pretty quickly (based on the group of pvp golems I tested on). However, the range nerf on it renders it almost completely useless in zerg v. zerg situations, and it doesn’t stack enough burning fast enough to be remotely effective on those you might hit.

Ideally, another stack or two of burning along with 1200 (or gasp! 1500 range) would make it acceptable to take an entire trait line for it. That way (for z v. z) you could target the guy closest to you and pierce through him and actually hit the 4 guys behind him.

Golems are perfect scenarios and should not never be used in balance. -Looks at mesmer- Piercing eh…well the last trait works like current dhuumfire was removed RIP Renewing Blast,hitting an ally in non PvE scenario was unrealistic most of the time even minions. Ironically it would have been great for reaper. If anything ricochet/bounce instead of peircing would have done the trick instead of piercing RIP Ricochet.

In short it failed even with piercing(might,vulnerability and burn duration) even against mobs it’s not worth it even with condition duration food. It’s also a slow “projectile”. Let’s hope it doesn’t slip under the balance radar.

It seems to me that a condition build would use Dhuumfire whenever they’re waiting for the cooldowns on their other condition application skills, as a replacement for the scepter 1 chain.

If you’re using Lingering Curse, then scepter 1 has more condition damage output over the boosted duration, but it’ll still have weaker direct damage output.

Scepter does not miss as much as Dhuumfire and it has longer range, now, too.

Anchoku.8142:

Scepter does not miss as much as Dhuumfire and it has longer range, now, too.

That’s one reason Life Blast is better on power, axe sucks and has 900 range and staff doesn’t hit as hard so balance grew based on that. Dhuumfire currently bring Life Blast at 900 same as scepter and have less damage/effiency. It takes about 3 blast for max stacks then get out shroud those 3 blasts are easily avoidable.

It feels pretty weak.

Even in CELE builds i have notice death perception having a HUGE advantage over dhuumfire.

Login.5102:

It feels pretty weak.

Even in CELE builds i have notice death perception having a HUGE advantage over dhuumfire.

You can go carrion with Deathly Perception it would do more than Dhuumfire and FiTG can be played around with pretty much anything. Burning could be possibly get nerfed after stab patch it took them about 1 week to add a break stun to FitG maybe that’s what they are waiting for, at least fix the range bug right now.

what i would love would be a faster death shroud 1 inflicting 3 stacks while reaper auto inflict 1stack per hit

or

3stacks for life blasts and final hit of shroud knight inflict 3stacks

we defiantly dont need more icd on things

I vote make it a master tier. Move Spectral attunement/master up to gm. Make spectral attunement/master give added effects, reflect on wall, retal on grasp, stab on armor, movement impairing condition removal on walk. I also think master of terror should swap with the adept trait that gives 25% move speed in shroud then the 25% move speed trait should get changed to give permaswiftness.

zapv.8051:

I vote make it a master tier. Move Spectral attunement/master up to gm. Make spectral attunement/master give added effects, reflect on wall, retal on grasp, stab on armor, movement impairing condition removal on walk. I also think master of terror should swap with the adept trait that gives 25% move speed in shroud then the 25% move speed trait should get changed to give permaswiftness.

That’s more about spectral skills then dhuumfire and despite possible new combinations I heavily doubt it fixes the incompatibility with condition necro.

Sagat.3285:

Gryph.8237:

Dhuumfire is not worth it and our condi application is so bad compared to every condi build in the game not only due to our crappy access to burning but also due to our terrible ability to stack condis unless you count our condi redirects. In general I have shelved my condi Necro because it’s bad, and I feel our wvw builds have also gone to crap u less your talking about zergs.
Boring

Terromancer has partially vanish but condition and boon control necro remains. I’m trying to get away from Blood Magic(it may be funny but I was expecting Parasitic Contagion to be useful vs players like a rewarding system for being active and smart with your conditions) but FitG is not a valid reason for me to use Soul Reaping. Even as a control condition necro you can still include dhuumfire with signets but it’s not worth it you are more efficient with the other lines. Dhuumfire is not for condition specs what Deathly Perception is to power specs.

They need to fix the Stability → Fear conversion that is bugged in the moment. I hope they do this soon, so I can really test how Terrormancer is.

Mikau.6920:

Sagat.3285:

Gryph.8237:

Dhuumfire is not worth it and our condi application is so bad compared to every condi build in the game not only due to our crappy access to burning but also due to our terrible ability to stack condis unless you count our condi redirects. In general I have shelved my condi Necro because it’s bad, and I feel our wvw builds have also gone to crap u less your talking about zergs.
Boring

Terromancer has partially vanish but condition and boon control necro remains. I’m trying to get away from Blood Magic(it may be funny but I was expecting Parasitic Contagion to be useful vs players like a rewarding system for being active and smart with your conditions) but FitG is not a valid reason for me to use Soul Reaping. Even as a control condition necro you can still include dhuumfire with signets but it’s not worth it you are more efficient with the other lines. Dhuumfire is not for condition specs what Deathly Perception is to power specs.

They need to fix the Stability -> Fear conversion that is bugged in the moment. I hope they do this soon, so I can really test how Terrormancer is.

Oh yeah there is that as well…transferring fear removes the fear but doesn’t transfer it at least for me.

Sagat.3285:

zapv.8051:

I vote make it a master tier. Move Spectral attunement/master up to gm. Make spectral attunement/master give added effects, reflect on wall, retal on grasp, stab on armor, movement impairing condition removal on walk. I also think master of terror should swap with the adept trait that gives 25% move speed in shroud then the 25% move speed trait should get changed to give permaswiftness.

That’s more about spectral skills then dhuumfire and despite possible new combinations I heavily doubt it fixes the incompatibility with condition necro.

Honestly, I don’t see dhummfire as build defining so I don’t think it should be GM. It does potentially make you change how you play because it forces you to use life blast more. Life blast spam is the last thing terromancer should be encouraging considering it is/was our most skillful build.

For that reason, I recommended a new trait that solves some of the other issues that necros currently have (bad stun breaks, no stab, no reflect). With the changes I listed the only problem would be whether to pick master of terror or soul marks (easy win for soul marks imo).

zapv.8051:

Sagat.3285:

zapv.8051:

I vote make it a master tier. Move Spectral attunement/master up to gm. Make spectral attunement/master give added effects, reflect on wall, retal on grasp, stab on armor, movement impairing condition removal on walk. I also think master of terror should swap with the adept trait that gives 25% move speed in shroud then the 25% move speed trait should get changed to give permaswiftness.

That’s more about spectral skills then dhuumfire and despite possible new combinations I heavily doubt it fixes the incompatibility with condition necro.

Honestly, I don’t see dhummfire as build defining so I don’t think it should be GM. It does potentially make you change how you play because it forces you to use life blast more. Life blast spam is the last thing terromancer should be encouraging considering it is/was our most skillful build.

For that reason, I recommended a new trait that solves some of the other issues that necros currently have (bad stun breaks, no stab, no reflect). With the changes I listed the only problem would be whether to pick master of terror or soul marks (easy win for soul marks imo).

It’s no a game changer but it still deserves to not drag down condition necro since they are factored together. For necro core issues well they don’t see the class like we do so I always expect a twist.

idk the state of pvp necro but for condi necro I don’t see much reason to go soul reaping in pve. Unless running terror then MAYBE. Other than that death shroud/soul reaping and condi just don’t mix very well.

They either have to make Dhuumfire very powerful, so powerful that players would consider taking the soul reaping line just for one trait. Or they have to twist up some of the other soul reaping traits so taking that line would not become a huge loss.

For pvp, I think it’s much simplier. Death shroud is much more useful there so soul reaping line isn’t useless. The current problem is now it has to compete against FitG so I think a slight buff for dhuumfire is enough to make it more desirable.

7)Dhuumfire also applies to staff AA
8)Burning duration increase as foes’ health decrease
+66% 3 sec burning
33-66% 4 sec burning
-33% 5 sec burning
(Wasn’t Dhuum the underworld god?)

Dhuum is the previous god of death prior to Grenth
Dhuum demanded absolute death and was being a general kitten to most people
Grenth didnt like that so he formed a party of 8 (Grenth+7reapers) and ebat Dhuum black and green and sealed him (cause he couldent kill him for some reason)

anyways i think it should just get bumped to 3 stacks for lifeblast
and 1 stacks for every hit with reaper shroud easy no?
wording:
[Shroud 1 skill or skill chain apply 3 total stacks of burning]

I like Dhuumfire because it turns Life Blast into green fire and I like green fire.. thats pretty much it.
Doesnt do much damage but it looks cool.

Crion.8465:

I like Dhuumfire because it turns Life Blast into green fire and I like green fire.. thats pretty much it.
Doesnt do much damage but it looks cool.

Yes we get it it’s beautiful lol the bait was too obvious with the new animation. I’m not sure if I should say it ended better than axe AA…

Think we could get chill on lifeblast instead?