Guild Wars 2

TheLastNobody.8319:

Think we could get chill on lifeblast instead?

It wouldn’t be that good for necro that seems like something reaper would get and Dhuumfire seems factored with condition necro it just weight down the spec right now. We would need a damage boost on bleeds and poison.

1200 range spammable chill? Wouldn’t be great for base condi Necro, but it would still be quite good.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

1200 range spammable chill? Wouldn’t be great for base condi Necro, but it would still be quite good.

It would be crazy with power reaper might on chill. It wouldn’t be worth slating on base condi necro.

9)Additional effect : For each boon converted your foe receives 1 stack of burning for 1 sec(no ICD)
10)Applying burning to a poisoned foes adds an additional burning stack for 3 sec(no ICD)

The main reason why Anet is afraid to increase the duration of burning on this skill the way it’s working right now is because of the upcoming Reaper. AoE burning for more than 3 seconds each cleave is probably too strong, at least on paper.
Considering that Anet has introduced a new type of ICD, in my opinion the best way to improve dhuumfire for life blast is to utilize this.
So my suggestion:

Shroud #1 applies burning for 5 seconds. Cannot occur more than 5 times every 5 seconds.

This still means that life blast, normally, applies burning on every hit for a much longer duration and still allows a single swing of reaper’s shroud #1 to burn everybody caught in the cleave but with a small recharge to ensure it doesn’t get too overpowered. Same thing would apply to a piercing life blast.

Burjis.3087:

The main reason why Anet is afraid to increase the duration of burning on this skill the way it’s working right now is because of the upcoming Reaper. AoE burning for more than 3 seconds each cleave is probably too strong, at least on paper.
Considering that Anet has introduced a new type of ICD, in my opinion the best way to improve dhuumfire for life blast is to utilize this.
So my suggestion:

Shroud #1 applies burning for 5 seconds. Cannot occur more than 5 times every 5 seconds.

This still means that life blast, normally, applies burning on every hit for a much longer duration and still allows a single swing of reaper’s shroud #1 to burn everybody caught in the cleave but with a small recharge to ensure it doesn’t get too overpowered. Same thing would apply to a piercing life blast.

11)…

Reaper should have no significant balance effect on necro it should be the other way around. If it’s too strong on reaper reaper slow the attack down and increase it’s power damage.

Retesting dhuumfire due to patch. Bugs are still here though.

Nah forget dhuumfire.

TheLastNobody.8319:

Think we could get chill on lifeblast instead?

That could be worth looking into. Instead of multiple stacks of burn like people are talking about how about multiple condition types in 1 hit

Just make Dhuumfire apply a stack of fire and a 2 seconds of chill. Give chill a 1 sec cooldown so when reaper uses it it’s not OP and you have a decent trait. Give it a 3 second stack of torment too then you have a Master worthy trait that conidmancers can be proud to take. You know how people panic when they see multiple condition types hit them at once.

Akrasia.5469:

TheLastNobody.8319:

Think we could get chill on lifeblast instead?

That could be worth looking into. Instead of multiple stacks of burn like people are talking about how about multiple condition types in 1 hit

Just make Dhuumfire apply a stack of fire and a 2 seconds of chill. Give chill a 1 sec cooldown so when reaper uses it it’s not OP and you have a decent trait. Give it a 3 second stack of torment too then you have a Master worthy trait that conidmancers can be proud to take. You know how people panic when they see multiple condition types hit them at once.

What like engie made spam? Anet devs so love Engies.

Akrasia.5469:

TheLastNobody.8319:

Think we could get chill on lifeblast instead?

That could be worth looking into. Instead of multiple stacks of burn like people are talking about how about multiple condition types in 1 hit

Just make Dhuumfire apply a stack of fire and a 2 seconds of chill. Give chill a 1 sec cooldown so when reaper uses it it’s not OP and you have a decent trait. Give it a 3 second stack of torment too then you have a Master worthy trait that conidmancers can be proud to take. You know how people panic when they see multiple condition types hit them at once.

I’m pretty sure they wouldn’t put chill on AA but torment possibly except some devs are going to think “Why call it Dhuumfire then?” and stick to burning.

I believe that considering there are a few traits which currently affect DS1, they should ensure the attack speed is identical. So yes, make all DS1 skills a 1/2 cast. It’s already the case underwater.
Then dhuumfire will probably be worth it.

Cecilia.5179:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

1200 range spammable chill? Wouldn’t be great for base condi Necro, but it would still be quite good.

It would be crazy with power reaper might on chill. It wouldn’t be worth slating on base condi necro.

I have been jonesing for Dhuumfire to change to chill with frost damage since forever. Anything but a condition we only get one source of.

I tried it again tonight since they fixed the range and damage bugs. Still mediocre. Was at its worst when I was fighting a mainhand sword ranger: the amounts of evades they had meant that only 1 in 3 life blasts was hitting. Of course, I also tried all the other standard tricks, like “fear them and then pump dhuumfire into their bottoms”, or “immobilise them and pump dhuumfire into their faces”, but with the duration of our CCs being so short, I could only ever get a single Life Blast to hit before they were free to start endless evades again. So, no, for 1000ish damage (assuming it lasts the full 3"), totally not worth it. Especially compared to a Deahly Perception power necro, who can get that life blast to hit for 3-5k instead!

manveruppd.7601:

I tried it again tonight since they fixed the range and damage bugs. Still mediocre. Was at its worst when I was fighting a mainhand sword ranger: the amounts of evades they had meant that only 1 in 3 life blasts was hitting. Of course, I also tried all the other standard tricks, like “fear them and then pump dhuumfire into their bottoms”, or “immobilise them and pump dhuumfire into their faces”, but with the duration of our CCs being so short, I could only ever get a single Life Blast to hit before they were free to start endless evades again. So, no, for 1000ish damage (assuming it lasts the full 3"), totally not worth it. Especially compared to a Deahly Perception power necro, who can get that life blast to hit for 3-5k instead!

Exactly add that with condition necro’s low LF gain it’s usually wasted they used another perfect scenario to balance necro. For what you invest to make it useful you lose out on actual reliable damage and sustain and this came up again Dhuumfire is not to condition necro what Deathly Perception is to power necro I also doubt they’ll go back to the ICD version which is better than current one.

12)Additional effect: While in Shroud gain 15% additional condition damage.

How about 3 seconds of quickness when entering Shroud?

A bit more burning damage, but nothing like the huge bursts from other classes. Power damage benefits. Stomping benefits. Has counterplay in the form of boon Corruption.

All-in-all I think it is game changing enough to be a GM, but not game breaking at all. I know devs are currently designing around the “slow” Necro, but we deserve to be quick for at least 3 seconds.

meow one twenty.4376:

How about 3 seconds of quickness when entering Shroud?

A bit more burning damage, but nothing like the huge bursts from other classes. Power damage benefits. Stomping benefits. Has counterplay in the form of boon Corruption.

All-in-all I think it is game changing enough to be a GM, but not game breaking at all. I know devs are currently designing around the “slow” Necro, but we deserve to be quick for at least 3 seconds.

Test it with a rage sigil, with the huge after cast it’s still pretty slow :/

Suggestion for ANET: Why not make it so Dhuumfire has a 1s internal CD (small enough to be spammed by Life Blast, but not enough to make Reaper skill 1 OP), then increase the duration of the burn to about 10-15 seconds base?

That way Dhuumfire can establish itself as a slow-building condition that greatly increases in intensity over time, playing on the “attrition” theme… Like the Necromancer description says they should be!

Sagat.3285:

Akrasia.5469:

TheLastNobody.8319:

Think we could get chill on lifeblast instead?

That could be worth looking into. Instead of multiple stacks of burn like people are talking about how about multiple condition types in 1 hit

Just make Dhuumfire apply a stack of fire and a 2 seconds of chill. Give chill a 1 sec cooldown so when reaper uses it it’s not OP and you have a decent trait. Give it a 3 second stack of torment too then you have a Master worthy trait that conidmancers can be proud to take. You know how people panic when they see multiple condition types hit them at once.

I’m pretty sure they wouldn’t put chill on AA but torment possibly except some devs are going to think “Why call it Dhuumfire then?” and stick to burning.

I (and many others) think the the Devs go with form over function with necros. So I think we need to convince them that our buffs will be “cool” and fit the necro theme. Dhuumfire is like saying hellfire. It’s unnatural fire so it not only burns the body but also burns the soul ala torment. I agree the AA chill is reaching

Kain Francois.4328:

Suggestion for ANET: Why not make it so Dhuumfire has a 1s internal CD (small enough to be spammed by Life Blast, but not enough to make Reaper skill 1 OP), then increase the duration of the burn to about 10-15 seconds base?

That way Dhuumfire can establish itself as a slow-building condition that greatly increases in intensity over time, playing on the “attrition” theme… Like the Necromancer description says they should be!

That would make piercing useless unless it’s per target your suggestions is somewhat similar to #11

Akrasia.5469:

Sagat.3285:

Akrasia.5469:

TheLastNobody.8319:

Think we could get chill on lifeblast instead?

That could be worth looking into. Instead of multiple stacks of burn like people are talking about how about multiple condition types in 1 hit

Just make Dhuumfire apply a stack of fire and a 2 seconds of chill. Give chill a 1 sec cooldown so when reaper uses it it’s not OP and you have a decent trait. Give it a 3 second stack of torment too then you have a Master worthy trait that conidmancers can be proud to take. You know how people panic when they see multiple condition types hit them at once.

I’m pretty sure they wouldn’t put chill on AA but torment possibly except some devs are going to think “Why call it Dhuumfire then?” and stick to burning.

I (and many others) think the the Devs go with form over function with necros. So I think we need to convince them that our buffs will be “cool” and fit the necro theme. Dhuumfire is like saying hellfire. It’s unnatural fire so it not only burns the body but also burns the soul ala torment. I agree the AA chill is reaching

AA with chill would have empowered reaper too much anyway torment could fit even though I didn’t expect a suggestion like that so #13

Zetsumei.4975:

meow one twenty.4376:

How about 3 seconds of quickness when entering Shroud?

A bit more burning damage, but nothing like the huge bursts from other classes. Power damage benefits. Stomping benefits. Has counterplay in the form of boon Corruption.

All-in-all I think it is game changing enough to be a GM, but not game breaking at all. I know devs are currently designing around the “slow” Necro, but we deserve to be quick for at least 3 seconds.

Test it with a rage sigil, with the huge after cast it’s still pretty slow :/

I have feelings this would empower reaper too much about that they should lower the attack speed of Shroud Knight AA then increase it’s damage and LF so that it can stop bothering necro and Wetfire.

Honestly this trait should give shroud one 2 stacks of burning every hit. With the burning application that is out there, it would not be over the top, but as it stands now, it’s just too week to compete with FiTg, and deathly perception

How about?

“Apply 1 stacks of burning for 3 sec. in an area around you target, when hitting a foe with shroud skill 1 (1sec ICD, range 300-600, number of targets 5) ".

so you could still maintain 3 stacks burning but AOE. The ICS is so that reaper cleave or unyielding blast don’t trigger it more then once per attack. That doesn’t change much for reaper but is a significant buff for life/Plague blast

Still far away from what for example ele can do but it’s a start i think.

They created a balancing nightmare for themselves when they decided to make Reaper’s Shroud 1 cast so much faster than life blast, and cleave as well. They should have tried to keep each shroud skill as close to the others as possible, otherwise so many traits will be impossible to balance.

I think at this point the sensible thing would be to reduce Life Blast’s cast time (and damage) rather than increase RS1. 0.5" with 0.5" aftercast, and halve its damage coefficient.

Glott.7239:

How about?

“Apply 1 stacks of burning for 3 sec. in an area around you target, when hitting a foe with shroud skill 1 (1sec ICD, range 300-600, number of targets 5) ".

so you could still maintain 3 stacks burning but AOE. The ICS is so that reaper cleave or unyielding blast don’t trigger it more then once per attack. That doesn’t change much for reaper but is a significant buff for life/Plague blast

Still far away from what for example ele can do but it’s a start i think.

By range I think you mean radius this seems awkward from reaper point of view not sure what the radius of Shroud Knight’s AA is but that’s a start so #14

Hand of dhuum:

Life blast applies a 2-3 seconds effect (not a condition, so it can’t be dispelled) that increases the damage of your conditions on the target by X% (15 at least?) – doesn’t stack

or

Life blast hits extend the duration of your conditions on the target by X seconds

or

Life blast procs all your damaging conditions on you target (indipendently of their tick timer)

or

Life blast deals damage based on your “condition damage” stat

burning may be the most damaging condition right now, but it just doesn’t fit with necros IMO. Better have the other condis do more dmg than adding a new one that pretty much does nothing.

Al Masone.1274:

Hand of dhuum:

Life blast applies a 2-3 seconds effect (not a condition, so it can’t be dispelled) that increases the damage of your conditions on the target by X% (15 at least?) – doesn’t stack

or

Life blast hits extend the duration of your conditions on the target by X seconds

or

Life blast procs all your damaging conditions on you target (indipendently of their tick timer)

or

Life blast deals damage based on your “condition damage” stat

burning may be the most damaging condition right now, but it just doesn’t fit with necros IMO. Better have the other condis do more dmg than adding a new one that pretty much does nothing.

Added.

The life blast damage based on condition sounds very pleasing and unique let’s hope it doesn’t end up like Radiant Retaliation.

New update still not enough. Life blast casts too slowly. Necros easily interrupted. No meaningful burn stacks possible unless you do nothing but life blast while in shroud.

Back to just transferring burns to get our burn damage, boys.

Dhuumfire
Shroud skill 1 inflicts burning on your target.
Deals damage every second; stacks intensity. Burning (3s): 984 damage
+30% condition Durration

Dreaming serpent.5197:

Dhuumfire
Shroud skill 1 inflicts burning on your target.
Deals damage every second; stacks intensity. Burning (3s): 984 damage
+30% condition Durration

Does the condition duration increase applies only to burning or is it a in DS buff?

Sagat.3285:

The life blast damage based on condition sounds very pleasing and unique let’s hope it doesn’t end up like Radiant Retaliation.

Would be a nice middle finger to DS Eles.

Dhummfire is a dumb trait to begin with. Its like one of those things where it shouldn’t have been made for various reasons (insert perplexity runes here).
Main reason is they really don’t know how to balance it without making it too op but at the same time by nerfing it making it completely useless and dismissible.
Also LOVE the idea on life blast dmg based on condi that will give condi necros a cleave that we need to finish the job.

What about this….

Dhuumfire, whenever you apply chill, you burn foes. (2 stacks). DS 1 now applies 1 stack of burn and extends existing condition duration by 1 second.

TheLastNobody.8319:

What about this….

Dhuumfire, whenever you apply chill, you burn foes. (2 stacks). DS 1 now applies 1 stack of burn and extends existing condition duration by 1 second.

OP. I like it but the idea is OP. The amount of chill spamming coming with Reaper would be insanely powerful

Akrasia.5469:

TheLastNobody.8319:

What about this….

Dhuumfire, whenever you apply chill, you burn foes. (2 stacks). DS 1 now applies 1 stack of burn and extends existing condition duration by 1 second.

OP. I like it but the idea is OP. The amount of chill spamming coming with Reaper would be insanely powerful

It gets tiresome of realizing a suggestion might be OP on Reaper. No patch in sight is not positive either.

Not sure if it’s the best idea but what about moving to another line like Spite master slot. They can take out the trash Unholy Fervor and mix it with Spiteful Spirit.

Sagat.3285:

Not sure if it’s the best idea but what about moving to another line like Spite master slot. They can take out the trash Unholy Fervor and mix it with Spiteful Spirit.

Ehhhh, I just don’t see how that would help much, and then you’d have it competing with rending shroud. I think that might do more harm then good, and then what would we get in the soul reaping line to make it more desirable for Condi builds?

I think keeping it in Soul Reaping is fine, it just needs to not suck so much. My suggestion would be to just copy-paste Incendiary Powder (Engi GM: 4sec Burn on Crit, 33% longer Burn duration) and see how it works out.

Skoigoth.9238:

I think keeping it in Soul Reaping is fine, it just needs to not suck so much. My suggestion would be to just copy-paste Incendiary Powder (Engi GM: 4sec Burn on Crit, 33% longer Burn duration) and see how it works out.

That’s what dhuumfire originally was I think…only, can’t remeber if it had the ICD or not. Think it did.

TheLastNobody.8319:

Skoigoth.9238:

I think keeping it in Soul Reaping is fine, it just needs to not suck so much. My suggestion would be to just copy-paste Incendiary Powder (Engi GM: 4sec Burn on Crit, 33% longer Burn duration) and see how it works out.

That’s what dhuumfire originally was I think…only, can’t remeber if it had the ICD or not. Think it did.

It pretty much was the Incendiary Powder copy and pasted. It was also at the height of our condi application, so at the time it gave Necromancers easy access to every damaging condition in the game minus Confusion, as well as the ability to have Fear deal damage. There were simply too many threats for anybody to cleanse effectively or readily.

I think it was also at the time that Warriors had some of the worst condi-cleanses in the game, so they were pretty frustrated over having no real means of dealing with a condi class of any kind and then comes in a Necromancer and face rolls them.

Oh how the times have changed…

TheLastNobody.8319:

Skoigoth.9238:

I think keeping it in Soul Reaping is fine, it just needs to not suck so much. My suggestion would be to just copy-paste Incendiary Powder (Engi GM: 4sec Burn on Crit, 33% longer Burn duration) and see how it works out.

That’s what dhuumfire originally was I think…only, can’t remeber if it had the ICD or not. Think it did.

Yes, that is pretty much what it used to be. I´m not entirely sure about the ICD either, but I also think it had one.

Edit: Incendiary Powder currently has an ICD (10 sec?) btw., forgot to mention that in my first post.

Skoigoth.9238:

TheLastNobody.8319:

Skoigoth.9238:

I think keeping it in Soul Reaping is fine, it just needs to not suck so much. My suggestion would be to just copy-paste Incendiary Powder (Engi GM: 4sec Burn on Crit, 33% longer Burn duration) and see how it works out.

That’s what dhuumfire originally was I think…only, can’t remeber if it had the ICD or not. Think it did.

Yes, that is pretty much what it used to be. I´m not entirely sure about the ICD either, but I also think it had one.

Edit: Incendiary Powder currently has an ICD (10 sec?) btw., forgot to mention that in my first post.

Actually I know it did, because when I first started as necromancer. The ICD is what turned me off on it. It was a 10 second ICD with a 5 second base burn.

TheLastNobody.8319:

Sagat.3285:

Not sure if it’s the best idea but what about moving to another line like Spite master slot. They can take out the trash Unholy Fervor and mix it with Spiteful Spirit.

Ehhhh, I just don’t see how that would help much, and then you’d have it competing with rending shroud. I think that might do more harm then good, and then what would we get in the soul reaping line to make it more desirable for Condi builds?

I know but condi necro needs either corrupt or transfer to work not just pure damage. PoC+Terror was a good source of that and now it’s signet that have it. In theory I though a spite/curses/soul reaping will be ideal but I get bursted too fast my usual condi setup is spite/curses/blood magic so far I’m stuck with cele due too many weakness with condi I tried dhuumfire for some days and simply went back to Spite way more effective especially vs ele.

There are good suggestions in this thread I hope they take a look and stop balancing dhuumfire with perfect scenarios and remember that reaper is not out yet.

Dhuumfire – Shroud skill 1 inflicts burning on your target and renews all stacks of burning.
Burning (3s): 984 damage

That way you get a slower ramp up but still can put serious amounts of burning down. If your opponent dodges a few life blasts the whole stack could fall off.

???

Dristig.9678:

Dhuumfire – Shroud skill 1 inflicts burning on your target and renews all stacks of burning.
Burning (3s): 984 damage

That way you get a slower ramp up but still can put serious amounts of burning down. If your opponent dodges a few life blasts the whole stack could fall off.

???

19)

This could get troublesome if it affects other sources of burning both in PvP and PvE if they can make it only affect your stacks then okay.

Just remove the trait entirely.

We’ll have Deathly Chill soon. That should just make Chill do the same damage as burn.

Replace it with a trait that mirrors sigil of generosity.

Atherakhia.4086:

Just remove the trait entirely.

We’ll have Deathly Chill soon. That should just make Chill do the same damage as burn.

Replace it with a trait that mirrors sigil of generosity.

Or simply add

Sagat.3285:

6)Life Blast becomes Plague Bast traited

I posted this in another thread before realizing that there was a dedicated dhuumfire discussion. What about something like having dhuumfire cause all wells to produce fire fields rather than the usual dark or light? Won’t make a whole lot of difference for damage (thus the kind of minor change ANet would be willing to make?) but might make necros more desirable (tolerated?) in dungeons due to not overwriting fire fields and contributing to might stacking. Or maybe this would not be a worthwhile change. I’d also suggest having it cause wells to pulse burning, but that might be a bit OP.

William Bradley Knight.2609:

I posted this in another thread before realizing that there was a dedicated dhuumfire discussion. What about something like having dhuumfire cause all wells to produce fire fields rather than the usual dark or light? Won’t make a whole lot of difference for damage (thus the kind of minor change ANet would be willing to make?) but might make necros more desirable (tolerated?) in dungeons due to not overwriting fire fields and contributing to might stacking. Or maybe this would not be a worthwhile change. I’d also suggest having it cause wells to pulse burning, but that might be a bit OP.

It seems the devs have this thematic thing with necro so fire fields seems out of the way and about wells they made line more specific so you don’t have to go to multiple lines for a specific utility so your proposed Dhuumfire in Soul Reaping and Vampiric Rituals in Blood Magic is not very likely.