Guild Wars 2

The simple, real-play, realization I’ve come to is that necro’s have at the very least 50% less skills then other classes in combat.

Whilst fighting you are continuously knocked out of your abilities (thanks to 0 stability) which will reset them, Giving that +1 ability use to your opponent, and meanwhile their skill is already on cooldown and has most likely done damage to you, any other skills they are free to use on you you’re probably going to try to dodge and only twice (thanks to 0 vigor), if you do get a skill off the enemy will most likely have their available stability up and waiting for you.

Our so-called offensive playstyle is far more defensive (and a failure at defense) if anything. Enemies will have more ways to escape your hard cc than you do and will generally have more defensive measures all around. You will constantly be knocked out of skills you attempt to use.

The only solution is to run fear and hope for the best. Lol. Your enemy will be using far more of their skills than you will be able to. Most of them will be on cooldowns or be interrupted etc.

Necromancers are a ver situational class. There many ways to build them, and each build is good in certain situations but none of them are always good. So necros don’t really have a jack of all trades build, I wouldn’t say completely useless though.

Each time someone says “Necro is a crappy class”, I heard “you need to be a superb player to play a necro!”.

Yes, I want necros to be improved, a lot, and to have their niche in the game… but in the meantime, each time I win a match, I know that I did it with a highest difficulty level… and that makes me extra happy. XD

Morbridae.8607:

Each time someone says “Necro is a crappy class”, I heard “you need to be a superb player to play a necro!”.

Yes, I want necros to be improved, a lot, and to have their niche in the game… but in the meantime, each time I win a match, I know that I did it with a highest difficulty level… and that makes me extra happy. XD

this.

exactly. Necro’s are the hardest class to play. I just got 40 seconds of poison stacks on me by 1 engi lol. And he was knocking me around and healed to near full health when he wanted. Elixer’d out of any cc i landed and just completely trolled.

I usually at least end up in the top 3 and do well for my team. But hands down necro’s is like playing with a handicap. It’s hell mode. But dem wins do make it worth it. You just have to be especially good, you cant waste 1 dodge, not one of your stunbreaks, you have to pay utmost attention to every detail.

Unless you spam fears lol.

Necromancer is a VERY easy class to play unless you play a power build in PvP.

I also like our damage in PvP…

Also to get use of your skills… use a stun-break spell.

Sick and tired of people moaning about ‘the state of Necromancers’ when it is easy to play one, we have good damage and OP spells like Plague Signet and Corrupt Boon…

youlostthegame.8102:

Necromancer is a VERY easy class to play unless you play a power build in PvP.

I also like our damage in PvP…

Also to get use of your skills… use a stun-break spell.

Sick and tired of people moaning about ‘the state of Necromancers’ when it is easy to play one, we have good damage and OP spells like Plague Signet and Corrupt Boon…

Whats ur basis of comparison? Whats “good” damage? OP spells like plague sig and corrupt boon compared to what? When did I say I don’t run stun-breakers?

youlostthegame.8102:

Sick and tired of people moaning about ‘the state of Necromancers’ when it is easy to play one, we have good damage and OP spells like Plague Signet and Corrupt Boon…

Yet we are the least favored class for dungeons and Fractals, have no way to tank spike damage, have no invincibility skill unlike the other classes, have no cleave, have poor access to stability and no reflects, and our main “strengths” (control and conditions) are hampered by limitations/flaws in the game’s combat (condition cap and Unshakable/Defiant).

Good and OP compared to what exactly?

TheDevice.2751:

youlostthegame.8102:

Necromancer is a VERY easy class to play unless you play a power build in PvP.

I also like our damage in PvP…

Also to get use of your skills… use a stun-break spell.

Sick and tired of people moaning about ‘the state of Necromancers’ when it is easy to play one, we have good damage and OP spells like Plague Signet and Corrupt Boon…

Whats ur basis of comparison? Whats “good” damage? OP spells like plague sig and corrupt boon compared to what? When did I say I don’t run stun-breakers?

damage comparison is from SPvP 1v1 server

Imagine you spend a few seconds getting a target to maybe 15-20 bleed stacks and torment and poison and he sends them all to you on top of the bleeds he already gave you… Plague signet

Also if a player is running a build with a lot of might for example and they pop some CDs and get a good amount. Corrupt Boon takes them ALL!

I assumed you didn’t run Stun-Breakers when you were saying you get locked out of casting a spells. Lol dodge and Stun-Breakers are your friend.

What inspired this thread if you don’t mine me asking? PvE, WvW or SPvP/TPvP?

youlostthegame.8102:

TheDevice.2751:

youlostthegame.8102:

Necromancer is a VERY easy class to play unless you play a power build in PvP.

I also like our damage in PvP…

Also to get use of your skills… use a stun-break spell.

Sick and tired of people moaning about ‘the state of Necromancers’ when it is easy to play one, we have good damage and OP spells like Plague Signet and Corrupt Boon…

Whats ur basis of comparison? Whats “good” damage? OP spells like plague sig and corrupt boon compared to what? When did I say I don’t run stun-breakers?

damage comparison is from SPvP 1v1 server

Imagine you spend a few seconds getting a target to maybe 15-20 bleed stacks and torment and poison and he sends them all to you on top of the bleeds he already gave you… Plague signet

Also if a player is running a build with a lot of might for example and they pop some CDs and get a good amount. Corrupt Boon takes them ALL!

I assumed you didn’t run Stun-Breakers when you were saying you get locked out of casting a spells. Lol dodge and Stun-Breakers are your friend.

What inspired this thread if you don’t mine me asking? PvE, WvW or SPvP/TPvP?

Thats all assuming your enemy freely lets you do all that. What happens when you dodge twice and use your said stunbreaker (now on cd) but your enemy still has enough access to cc to knock u down. Our stunbreakers are on a 48 potential cd. The cooldowns on hammers are less than that.

This is from an spvp standpoint. There is hardly any room for standing behind your zerg and spamming all of your conditions as in wvw. Fear locks are generally how mosyt necro’s get by or now the MM. So the conditions or dhummfire/terror are really only a recent addition. MM are said to be fun but i’ve never experienced that XD.

My original point is you are generally dodging less and using less skills over a period of time than your opponents because you cant possibly avoid every single hard cc that comes your way. So you get interrupted, causing a short cooldown, or stunned or whatever, gradually decreasing your skill output.

I never said necro’s don’t have stun-breakers or that we don’t do “good” damage. They do. But just playing a necro I can tell it’s not as ez as that. You don’t just “do” anything lol. One of the biggest reasons, I believe, Necro’s are really focused down so much is because they lack the tools to avoid that focus. If you were against a group of enemies even in pve do you focus the the one who has the best escapes or do u focus the one who cant get away and will take most of your hits?

What in the world are you talking about?

Necro’s are pretty OPed for PvP… Personally, I don’t consider myself highly skilled and I win lots of matches and always am in top 3.
I can quite easily dispatch my opponents and cause pretty heavy damage on them. and Again, it’s done really easily

I have talked about it with my guildies and we all had ‘Necros are OP for PvP’ jokes, because it’s kinda close to that

The one and only class I find horrifically annoying is Thief, for obvious reason, but even for that I think necros have more defense than other classes

Lack of stability is annoying, but we have Spectral walk which is like a double stun breaker and I never felt like I need anything beyond that

this.

exactly. Necro’s are the hardest class to play. I just got 40 seconds of poison stacks on me by 1 engi lol. And he was knocking me around and healed to near full health when he wanted. Elixer’d out of any cc i landed and just completely trolled.

I usually at least end up in the top 3 and do well for my team. But hands down necro’s is like playing with a handicap. It’s hell mode. But dem wins do make it worth it. You just have to be especially good, you cant waste 1 dodge, not one of your stunbreaks, you have to pay utmost attention to every detail.

Unless you spam fears lol.

You got 40 seconds of poison? I stacked 30 seconds of weakness + some bleeds + fears on someone

Necro’s are far from a hardmode, they completely wreck in PvP.
Want a real hard mode? run an Ele

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Yet we are the least favored class for dungeons and Fractals, have no way to tank spike damage, have no invincibility skill unlike the other classes, have no cleave, have poor access to stability and no reflects, and our main “strengths” (control and conditions) are hampered by limitations/flaws in the game’s combat (condition cap and Unshakable/Defiant).

Good and OP compared to what exactly?

This is ridiculous. We’re not highly favorite for Fractals and dungeons because thats mainly single-target DPSing and support, which are 2 aspects of Necro that fall short compared to other classes.
For WvW, commanders will rejoice to see tons of Necros
No tanking ability? did you forget you have more movement debuffs than almost all classes? O, and you might not have noticed, but we have a 2nd HP Bar… which might help a bit

SrebX.6498:

This is ridiculous. We’re not highly favorite for Fractals and dungeons because thats mainly single-target DPSing and support, which are 2 aspects of Necro that fall short compared to other classes.

-And because high end PVE is extremely unfavorable towards the necromancer. The necromancer is a class that revolves around conditions and control, and both are things that bosses and champions in PVE are immune or resilient against. We hit the condition cap constantly with bleeding and vulnerability, and several bosses count as structures, and are thus not affected by conditions.

SrebX.6498:

No tanking ability? did you forget you have more movement debuffs than almost all classes? O, and you might not have noticed, but we have a 2nd HP Bar… which might help a bit

We have the worst defensive ability in the whole game. Several PVE bosses hit straight through a full Death Shroud bar, and your health bar in one hit. Any hit we soak, leaks into our actual health. Classes with invulnerability/blocking/evade do not have this problem. And on top of that, we need to build life force as well to use our ability, we can’t use healing skills while using it, and it disables our skills when we exit the ability. It’s absolutely rubbish in comparison to every other class in the game.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

SrebX.6498:

This is ridiculous. We’re not highly favorite for Fractals and dungeons because thats mainly single-target DPSing and support, which are 2 aspects of Necro that fall short compared to other classes.

-And because high end PVE is extremely unfavorable towards the necromancer. The necromancer is a class that revolves around conditions and control, and both are things that bosses and champions in PVE are immune or resilient against. We hit the condition cap constantly with bleeding and vulnerability, and several bosses count as structures, and are thus not affected by conditions.

SrebX.6498:

No tanking ability? did you forget you have more movement debuffs than almost all classes? O, and you might not have noticed, but we have a 2nd HP Bar… which might help a bit

We have the worst defensive ability in the whole game. Several PVE bosses hit straight through a full Death Shroud bar, and your health bar in one hit. Any hit we soak, leaks into our actual health. Classes with invulnerability/blocking/evade do not have this problem. And on top of that, we need to build life force as well to use our ability, we can’t use healing skills while using it, and it disables our skills when we exit the ability. It’s absolutely rubbish in comparison to every other class in the game.

I agree that in PvE we do fall short a bit. I wouldn’t say unforgiving, but it is a bit tougher… It’s PvE though, dodges and stun breakers are usually enough, you don’ t NEED soaking abilities for PvE… It’s just PvE

PvP wise we rock

SrebX.6498:

I agree that in PvE we do fall short a bit. I wouldn’t say unforgiving, but it is a bit tougher… It’s PvE though, dodges and stun breakers are usually enough, you don’ t NEED soaking abilities for PvE… It’s just PvE

PvP wise we rock

The problem in PVE is that we only have 2 dodges, and no access to vigor either. And 2 dodges often does not cut it. Every other class in the game can fall back on other defensive skills to survive insta-kills, but the necromancer does not have that option. And this has created a severe unbalance in regards to the other classes.

See, if our defense is lacking, then surely you’d expect that our offense makes up for it… but that is not the case. In PVE we are also lacking damage-wise, due to said problems with conditions, and our lack of a Cleave attack.

These threads always confuse me. How is playing Necro that difficult? Name your build type (Power, Condi, Hybrid, Minions) and I can easily lay out a good build, game plan and how to fight most opponents for you. (Also, are we talking about pvp or WvW?)

Tired of getting knocked around? Well aren’t you running something to deal with it? Stunbreakers, blinds and even Foot in the Grave will help you there. Else time your dodges better and start learning how to fear appropriately. Learn how to use Deathshroud to make bursts useless.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

SrebX.6498:

This is ridiculous. We’re not highly favorite for Fractals and dungeons because thats mainly single-target DPSing and support, which are 2 aspects of Necro that fall short compared to other classes.

-And because high end PVE is extremely unfavorable towards the necromancer. The necromancer is a class that revolves around conditions and control, and both are things that bosses and champions in PVE are immune or resilient against. We hit the condition cap constantly with bleeding and vulnerability, and several bosses count as structures, and are thus not affected by conditions.

SrebX.6498:

No tanking ability? did you forget you have more movement debuffs than almost all classes? O, and you might not have noticed, but we have a 2nd HP Bar… which might help a bit

We have the worst defensive ability in the whole game. Several PVE bosses hit straight through a full Death Shroud bar, and your health bar in one hit. Any hit we soak, leaks into our actual health. Classes with invulnerability/blocking/evade do not have this problem. And on top of that, we need to build life force as well to use our ability, we can’t use healing skills while using it, and it disables our skills when we exit the ability. It’s absolutely rubbish in comparison to every other class in the game.

Agreed, necromancers need serious pve love. I feel our pvp and wvw is balanced, but fractals and dungeons in general reveal all the weaknesses of Necros. I can’t join groups with another condition Necro, can’t use plague for any boss encounters, and generally have such weak dps that other classes are carrying me. We have very niche skills that are strong in dungeons.

It’s tough being a necro, because our counters are so easy and obvious.

Interrupts and Kiting. The interrupting part is obvious and is our built in flaw, like how some classes have low hp, or they lack mobility, or they lack ranged options, ect. I’m ok with that, I understand we need a glaring weakness like most classes have (Except for Warriors of course).

What I think should be resolved is how easily kited we are.

While you can’t kite a necro’s staff, the staff by itself does poor damage. All of our real dmg dealing weps are 900 and less range. So by simply staying outside that 900 range, you can avoid 90% of a necro’s damage and cc. Ironically the other terrible class in pvp, the ranger, excels at killing necros if they are smart about it. Sadly I have found many many rangers are just not smart, but thats another story…

In short…we need a more reliable gap closer. We are the only close range class in the game that lacks a reliable gap closer. We have 2 gap closers but they are both terrible. Spectral grasp and Dark path miss far more then they hit, and are buggy on top of that.

Dark path should be a instant shadow step like attack, and Spectral Grasp should have the same projectile speed as Scorpion Wire.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

SrebX.6498:

I agree that in PvE we do fall short a bit. I wouldn’t say unforgiving, but it is a bit tougher… It’s PvE though, dodges and stun breakers are usually enough, you don’ t NEED soaking abilities for PvE… It’s just PvE

PvP wise we rock

The problem in PVE is that we only have 2 dodges, and no access to vigor either. And 2 dodges often does not cut it. Every other class in the game can fall back on other defensive skills to survive insta-kills, but the necromancer does not have that option. And this has created a severe unbalance in regards to the other classes.

See, if our defense is lacking, then surely you’d expect that our offense makes up for it… but that is not the case. In PVE we are also lacking damage-wise, due to said problems with conditions, and our lack of a Cleave attack.

To be completely honest, 2 dodges is more than enough. When I used to play zerker Necromancer, I never had an issue where I wished I had vigor. This is from someone who’s played through Fractals 60ish, and done every dungeon. I’d agree that our defense is lacking, but we don’t need it. Every notable boss I can think of telegraphs any attack that would be able to 100-0 us through a full death shroud and full health. Any other attacks are pretty easily dealt with. Now, I can’t speak from a conditionmancer’s point of view on this, but as a zerker, I had no issues dodging key attacks and then generating enough health and using my heal to be able to keep fighting without fear of dying or doing down.

As far as damage goes…for the condition end of things, I could see why you’d think you’re lacking damage in PvE, but from a berserker’s point of view, I never felt like I did any less damage than most classes, barring the ones that do an absurd amount like thieves or certain elementalist builds. Though, I’ll admit, the lack of cleave means that all this damage is restricted to single target, and that really sucks. In my opinion, our biggest problems in PvE are not that we don’t do enough damage, or that we don’t have enough mobility. It’s that we don’t bring anything special to a party that other classes can, which makes it so that others don’t want to take us. We’re a very selfish dps class. What I mean by this is that other classes can bring reflects, banners, more reliable combo fields, weapons that everyone can pick up, AoE stealth and things like that. We don’t do anything that supports the rest of our party. I’ve never felt like I couldn’t keep up with other classes in terms of damage dealing and the ability to handle PvE situations. I have, however, felt like I don’t contribute to the group at all, while other classes do.

edit: This is all spoken from a PvE point of view. I don’t do much PvP at all, and I’m not one to dabble in WvW either.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

SrebX.6498:

I agree that in PvE we do fall short a bit. I wouldn’t say unforgiving, but it is a bit tougher… It’s PvE though, dodges and stun breakers are usually enough, you don’ t NEED soaking abilities for PvE… It’s just PvE

PvP wise we rock

The problem in PVE is that we only have 2 dodges, and no access to vigor either. And 2 dodges often does not cut it. Every other class in the game can fall back on other defensive skills to survive insta-kills, but the necromancer does not have that option. And this has created a severe unbalance in regards to the other classes.

See, if our defense is lacking, then surely you’d expect that our offense makes up for it… but that is not the case. In PVE we are also lacking damage-wise, due to said problems with conditions, and our lack of a Cleave attack.

The only condition being countered is Fear
Movement debuffs [which we have A LOT of] also provides really good kiting abilities, and save you Dodges.
Right, you we might not be optimal, but it’s just PvE… You don’t NEED all these nuances other classes have, you get by and do pretty well without it … The important and challenging part is WvW and PvP, which we do great in.

Morbridae.8607:

Each time someone says “Necro is a crappy class”, I heard “you need to be a superb player to play a necro!”.

Yes, I want necros to be improved, a lot, and to have their niche in the game… but in the meantime, each time I win a match, I know that I did it with a highest difficulty level… and that makes me extra happy. XD

Personally, I don’t get this. I agree with SrebX: to me, the necro isn’t terribly hard to play. While it isn’t as elementary as a warrior or guardian, it certainly doesn’t have the complexity of a d/d ele, engi or mesmer. With the right build, condition spam is easy in sPvP or WvW without complicated rotations and DS is extremely effective on a short one. What’s more, given the large health pool, edge gaming is unnecessary — we have a change to recover if mistakes are made.

I think TheBandit had it right. Necros are quite powerful. While we don’t have a do-it-all, OPed super-build, we have access to three viable WvW builds (well, glass cannon, condi) and even more in sPvP (power MM, condi MM, condi, glass cannon). What’s more, I believe we are also the only class that allows builds for both viable back line and front line zerging. Although this involves buying multiple sets of equipment, we have options which is more than most classes can boast.

As for PvE, I have no idea… not my thing really.