Guild Wars 2

This is in no way a Necromancer is the best class in the world thread but more of a fun fact. While doing the platforms in the marionette event I realized that while everyone on my platform got stomped to death, my conditions where still going and it actually not only once saved everyone from dying by just eating the champion while everybody was on the ground.

Sadly that is a l2p situation. Necro survival is pretty high, but people die on that event because they don’t understand the mechanics, and that event attracts a lot of bad people.

That said, by splitting people up and how the fight works, it is much more condi necro friendly.

What I learned? Traited Spectral Wall is OP as hell for stopping groups at chokepoints.

Then again, that’s kinda what it’s supposed to do…

Low DPS (from condition build in PvE) leads to longer fights, which leads to players having to face the mechanics of the fights more than otherwise, which causes more chance for failure.

Lord Kuru.3685:

Low DPS (from condition build in PvE) leads to longer fights, which leads to players having to face the mechanics of the fights more than otherwise, which causes more chance for failure.

I think what the OP was getting at is that a high DPS Condi build made him realize the advantages of Condi Necro in a situation like the platforms. As in when power builds DPS drops significantly due to kiting, getting downed, dodging etc., condi ticks keep on ticking until their duration is up. In his case it saved his team from champ wipe.

Although condi has no spike power, it can easily hit 4-5K condi ticks per second indefinitely. This can be very useful in pressure heavy fights like Marionette Platforms where a majority of time many players are kiting rather than focusing on damage, auto attacking most of the time. Also many on Marionette are not taking Zerker, but are using Knights/Solders gear too which is comparable to Condi Rabid gear damage and thoughness.

That said I wouldn’t use a Condi Necro on Chain 2 which is very spike dependent, while I think they would be great for Chains 4 and especially 5 (AoE condis ticking for 4-5K would keep adds always under control on Chain 5). Plus Signet of Spite allows us to stack a minute long bleeds, which can be a 4 stacks of bleed insurance policy on plaforms.

Balekai.6083:

Lord Kuru.3685:

Low DPS (from condition build in PvE) leads to longer fights, which leads to players having to face the mechanics of the fights more than otherwise, which causes more chance for failure.

I think what the OP was getting at is that a high DPS Condi build made him realize the advantages of Condi Necro in a situation like the platforms. As in when power builds DPS drops significantly due to kiting, getting downed, dodging etc., condi ticks keep on ticking until their duration is up. In his case it saved his team from champ wipe.

Although condi has no spike power, it can easily hit 4-5K condi ticks per second indefinitely. This can be very useful in pressure heavy fights like Marionette Platforms where a majority of time many players are kiting rather than focusing on damage, auto attacking most of the time. Also many on Marionette are not taking Zerker, but are using Knights/Solders gear too which is comparable to Condi Rabid gear damage and thoughness.

That said I wouldn’t use a Condi Necro on Chain 2 which is very spike dependent, while I think they would be great for Chains 4 and especially 5 (AoE condis ticking for 4-5K would keep adds always under control on Chain 5). Plus Signet of Spite allows us to stack a minute long bleeds, which can be a 4 stacks of bleed insurance policy on plaforms.

I’m saying he possibly caused his team to go down in the first place because he wasn’t contributing enough damage and thus making the fight longer than everyone else could handle. 4-5K per tick is not much compared to zerker damage. Moreover, the way conditions are spammed by some weapons (warrior sword, for example), it’s likely many of his stacks were negated by the 25 stack limit.

In the end, this is Anet’s game design fail.

Lord Kuru.3685:

Balekai.6083:

Lord Kuru.3685:

Low DPS (from condition build in PvE) leads to longer fights, which leads to players having to face the mechanics of the fights more than otherwise, which causes more chance for failure.

I think what the OP was getting at is that a high DPS Condi build made him realize the advantages of Condi Necro in a situation like the platforms. As in when power builds DPS drops significantly due to kiting, getting downed, dodging etc., condi ticks keep on ticking until their duration is up. In his case it saved his team from champ wipe.

Although condi has no spike power, it can easily hit 4-5K condi ticks per second indefinitely. This can be very useful in pressure heavy fights like Marionette Platforms where a majority of time many players are kiting rather than focusing on damage, auto attacking most of the time. Also many on Marionette are not taking Zerker, but are using Knights/Solders gear too which is comparable to Condi Rabid gear damage and thoughness.

That said I wouldn’t use a Condi Necro on Chain 2 which is very spike dependent, while I think they would be great for Chains 4 and especially 5 (AoE condis ticking for 4-5K would keep adds always under control on Chain 5). Plus Signet of Spite allows us to stack a minute long bleeds, which can be a 4 stacks of bleed insurance policy on plaforms.

I’m saying he possibly caused his team to go down in the first place because he wasn’t contributing enough damage and thus making the fight longer than everyone else could handle. 4-5K per tick is not much compared to zerker damage. Moreover, the way conditions are spammed by some weapons (warrior sword, for example), it’s likely many of his stacks were negated by the 25 stack limit.

In the end, this is Anet’s game design fail.

First off correction I meant Blood is Power gives us 1min bleeds.

I agree in general that your concerns can be an issue (I would feel bad for a platform that gets multiple condi toons…), but I doubt it was in this case because again, he was the one that pulled it off after going down himself with his bleeds post ticking. So he had to have been doing DPS.

It does pay to take the things down fast though like the rest of PvE. I just tested Rabidmancer on chain 4 to see what it was like. I wish I brought my Mesmer for the extra vigor because I missed one Marionette dodge and didn’t get achievement I need lol. Anyways, 2-3 platforms had 3-4 players go down, but the DPS we had was so fast we killed those champs and rallied/ressed everyone in under 30-40 seconds or so. For being so messy every lane finished each chain with ease when it came up. So your right faster DPS does make up for badness, but I think its a fallacy to say condi build automatically means bad DPS or contributes to near failure more. The cause for a platform failing could just as easily be an experienced Zerker getting one shotted when they zone in, hit again and because they’re so squishy, they die before anyone can revive. Or even someone bringing a Cleric/support build that would definitely slow down DPS.

My big issue with condis in platform fights is the risk of getting teamed with other condi builds (which really messes up DPS), people that proc loots of condis, or people bringing condis to bosses they shouldn’t like Chain 2. So I wouldn’t recommend them at platforms, but there are times and places in PvE when condi builds are more “flexible.”

Yes Anet did well to split up the zerg for marionette. It makes people running condition specs less useless. So basically anyone with some form of dps should do well. The real leeches are the cleric staff camping guards and bearbow rangers.

Condispeccs are losing the same DPS if they dogde or don´t attack like Zerkerbuilds. The bleeds u can see, are already done dmg if u play Zerk.

DoT´s speccs have only more movementdps if u can add the dot´s with a few skills. Like a old WoW Warlock for example. 80% of your dps was applied in 3 Seconds and u could dance 15 seconds before the DoT´s expired.

In GW2 u have to attack all the time to keep your bleeds/dps up.
But like Spoj said, in the end even if pure conditoonbuilds are still not as strong, they´re better then PVT/Cleric´s speccs.

The real interesting thing they introduced in this patch was the husks on the wurm event. I was part of a 3man condi necro team on deso for an attempt on sunday. I usually hate playing condi necro but it was actually quite fun having a non brainless role and being relied apon by the entire zerg to clear those husks. I actually have a reason to take my necro to wurm instead of warrior thanks to this idea.

I wouldnt mind somemore of those mechanics coming into play in the future. But they need to be careful. Its ok in zerg content because you are bound to have some condi damage and even if you dont you’ve got 50+ people. In a dungeon the armour would have to be low enough for non condi specced people to still kill the blasted thing but not so low that people stop taking condi when trying to be optimal.

The Wurm is not bad, but overflow……a open world which isn´t open. They rly could start to make 25/40 people raiding instances. It would be the same.

Yeah thats my only issue with it. My home server is useless so im forced to guest on deso and well then its like playing wait wars 2.

Lord Kuru.3685:

Low DPS (from condition build in PvE) leads to longer fights, which leads to players having to face the mechanics of the fights more than otherwise, which causes more chance for failure.

Nope. People just attack 1st warden from front and die. And condition necro is still better dps than soldier warrior

sick of hearing blah blah blah berserker is only option blah blah blah.

Gotta love variety

Brullyra.1592:

sick of hearing blah blah blah berserker is only option blah blah blah.

Gotta love variety

Pure Conditionspeccs have always 1 or 2 defensive stats. If they would do more/the same dmg. It wouldn´t be balanced.

Rampager should be the only second dps gear.

And u can´t balance thoughness/vita in a trinity less game. If it get´s usefull it is needed. And at this point the whole class balance thing will be destroyed.

Norjena.5172:

Brullyra.1592:

sick of hearing blah blah blah berserker is only option blah blah blah.

Gotta love variety

Pure Conditionspeccs have always 1 or 2 defensive stats. If they would do more/the same dmg. It wouldn´t be balanced.

Rampager should be the only second dps gear.

And u can´t balance thoughness/vita in a trinity less game. If it get´s usefull it is needed. And at this point the whole class balance thing will be destroyed.

They should make a Cond.dmg/prec/duration set or something along that line, then balance it so it does about the same damage as berserker/assassin/rampager.

You can balance toughness/vit in GW2. Some kiting encounter for example, there is no point bringing zerker there. “you can still complete with berserker gear, it’s just less effective”. It’s just the majority of GW2’s encounter don’t do sustain damage thus favoring full dps specs.

No u can´t. If defensive gear is needed, a warrior/necro can do it with zerkers gear while ele/guard/thief can´t, this will ruin everything much more.

At the moment it´s ok, u can facetank everything or avoid it. If u don´t mix the playstyle both are working well.

They just need to fix rampager.

Norjena.5172:

No u can´t. If defensive gear is needed, a warrior/necro can do it with zerkers gear while ele/guard/thief can´t, this will ruin everything much more.

At the moment it´s ok, u can facetank everything or avoid it. If u don´t mix the playstyle both are working well.

They will still be able to do it. Just not as good. Like current guardian having 2000 block skills vs necro. No, it is not balanced, nor it is now. Different encounter you use different gear. Like Teq you use soldier, because it works there.

Balekai got exactly what I was saying in my OP, let me say one thing to all those saying a condition spec is probably why the team died in the first place. I was probably the one doing the most dps on that platform even if I was using conditions, necro is not a bad class if you know how to use it.

Let me elaborate a bit, the way I built my necro is going for max condition stack and then I traited him to have nearly 100% uptime on DS so as soon as you are done applying condtions you go in DS for damage then back to stacking conditions then back to DS. I also put a pretty expensive glyph of torment which gives me nearly 100% torment uptime and goes nice with people running in circle and the champs following them.

Current build for Twisted
30/20/20/0/0
Signet Mastery, Axe Training, Dhuumfire
Reaper’s Precision, Master of Corruption
Staff Mastery, Greater Marks

Equipment
Staff, Axe/Focus
Rampager with +60 Might duration
Mix of ruby and coral for just over 50% crit chance

Utilities
Signet of Vampirism
Blood is Power
Epidemic
Signet of Spite
Lich Form

I am far from sure it is optimal but I get Might and single-target dps along with good AoE to help mop up the adds.

Yeah, but fully traited Spectral Wall gives 7.5 seconds of mob lockdown every 32 seconds during the lane phases, ensuring those blasted Menders don’t streak past the AoE fest at the start of each lane. Even without traits, I find that skill extremely useful. Signet of Spite…really doesn’t do much in Marionette events. The passive isn’t that great there due to downscaling, and the active is meaningless.

Champs ignore Fear and they are all I really worry about. I also use SoS and SoV for 3 stacks of Might, each, added to BiP.

Signet of Spite does not do too much to the champs but if I apply it, use BiP, then Epidemic, I can burn down a lot of the adds or double the conditions onto another champ when they proc 2 or 3 at a time.

Marks help mop up the adds but, for champs, I stack the Might and fire-axe, life blast, torment and anything else I can do. Dark Path helps me catch up without any form of swiftness equipped.

Signet of Vampirism is one I am undecided on. In this fight, I typically have plenty of health and there is dying trash everywhere on the rare occasion I get downed from unseen adds or a foot-stomp so I convert some of the heal into dps through the vampiric property.

My view on the active for Signet of Spite is that those champs are almost instantly stacked with all the conditions it applies anyway. Save the skill slot and cast time and just pop Epidemic. Spectral Wall doesn’t help against them, but its purpose is to keep the smaller mobs in the AoE-spam so they don’t sneak through as everyone focuses the champs.

The smaller Watchworks are hardly an issue if you have 2 competent players in the Siege Golems though. When the mobs spawn in, both players hit skill #2. They do enough damage that one more Ranger with Barrage or a Staff Ele with AoE fields can mop up easily.

You really dont need to think this much about what you take for marionette. Its completely faceroll. I tend to afk at the top of the lanes waiting for my turn on the chains and then i just dps. Nothing special.

Exactly. One golem and a staff ele is enough for the weaker mobs and champs can be crippled / chilled above 50% HP still and they will be zerged down anyway.

Spoj, Dalanor, I play on NSP and have gone more than 15 losses without a single victory. What seems like face-roll on one server is proving impossible on another. The only wins so far were last Saturday, if I heard correctly. No rumors of a single win against the wurm. This is just like Tequatl. Some servers get it and others do not. Individual skills mean nothing in a statistically large sample.

The Marionette is challenging content to be sure, but it is, at least, doable without ungodly amounts of coordination.

Anchoku.8142:

Spoj, Dalanor, I play on NSP and have gone more than 15 losses without a single victory. What seems like face-roll on one server is proving impossible on another. The only wins so far were last Saturday, if I heard correctly. No rumors of a single win against the wurm. This is just like Tequatl. Some servers get it and others do not. Individual skills mean nothing in a statistically large sample.

The Marionette is failing because singelpeople (or small gruops) are failing vs the champs.
U can´t compare it to Tequatl/Wurm.

Btw, i got all my victories on overflows. My homeserver is always full and i don´t want to wait a hour or more.

My main server failed horribly last night…..I waited more than 30mins hoping to get a better shot, turns out it’s worse than some overflow I’ve been in. Only 1 warden was killed. I usually ain’t this desperate but I realize some people are just hopeless. I yelled and yelled in map chat to dodge into the bomb but some people just keep running in circle.

You cant dodge into the bombs because that sets them off and makes them disappear. You need to run inbetween them and position yourself so the champ walks over the one you walked around. Dodging through them is almost as bad as just kiting in a big brainless circle.

This is why people fail these things. They arent aware and have no observation skills.

Yup; dodge through the Warden and kite in a tight circle to get one of the mines between you and it; the mines go off if you dodge through them so that is actually counterproductive.

For some reason most fail at positioning themselves to not even need to dodge once the stun wears off the MKII by making sure an active mine is always between themselves and the Warden.

I’ve parked my Mesmer in spots where the Warden did not get to actually do much for extended periods by doing that.

You dodge towards the bomb, warden will follow and stunned. You can actually perma stun it this way.

Groups fail on the 2nd and 3rd chains.

The second chain, conditions are less than optimal. Necromancer is also weakish because of low dodges. But the event really fails because the mob aggros onto some player who wolnt kite it into the mines.

I’ve been life blasting the third and fourth chains from the edge of the map. These two are mostly tricky because the game has trained us: mob AoE has red circles, and these don’t.

Anyways, while Specteal wall traited with master of terror is godly (and traited with terror and reduced cooldown even more so), the skill overlaps in function with similar skills that elementalist and guardian have. Plus, it is useless in the warden fights (swap it out for signet of un death? A well? )

Ele wall lasts for 3 seconds, Guardian lasts for 5. Spectral Attunement Spectral Wall lasts 7.5, as well as being a nice combo field.

Not so great on the warden fights, but you have plenty of time to swap it out anyway before going in.

Got powned last night on second warden. Arena deal gave me a group with a few less experienced players who would kite away from the mines. I quicky got aggro and ran out of stamina with my hybrid-ish build. Ouch. BUT I continued to hold aggro while downed until the two others still standing could finish the job just in time for the fail notice.

Wow this actually went from a necro doing marionette post to a post about the marionette…