Guild Wars 2

Lordrosicky.5813:

I am really disappointed that greater marks wasn’t merged into the staff trait. It is frustrating to have that stuck alone in the death magic line. The death magic line is useless for almost all necromancers. The grandmaster traits (which you now have to take if you go into that line) of death magic are all unviable in anything except minions (which is itself unviable). So greater marks is gone and with that any hope of really competing in pvp. Fighting dps guards and engis is hard enough with greater marks. Without it we are screwed. At least the condi spec is screwed.

The new traits will reward classes with coherent trait lines because they will be able to specialise by going into a single line. Necromancer has traits all over the place with no over-riding structure (like staff traits in different lines) because arenanet do not have a single dev who plays necro or understands necro. The new traits will lead to another 12 months where necro is worse than ever before. Other classes have coherent trait lines with clusters of things you can specialise in. They will be much stronger after the patch

You need to wait like 8 hour until after the stream. We don’t know how everything will shake out. Necro traits could end up stronger and other classes weaker than the last stream.

Roe.3679:

Lordrosicky.5813:

I am really disappointed that greater marks wasn’t merged into the staff trait. It is frustrating to have that stuck alone in the death magic line. The death magic line is useless for almost all necromancers. The grandmaster traits (which you now have to take if you go into that line) of death magic are all unviable in anything except minions (which is itself unviable). So greater marks is gone and with that any hope of really competing in pvp. Fighting dps guards and engis is hard enough with greater marks. Without it we are screwed. At least the condi spec is screwed.

The new traits will reward classes with coherent trait lines because they will be able to specialise by going into a single line. Necromancer has traits all over the place with no over-riding structure (like staff traits in different lines) because arenanet do not have a single dev who plays necro or understands necro. The new traits will lead to another 12 months where necro is worse than ever before. Other classes have coherent trait lines with clusters of things you can specialise in. They will be much stronger after the patch

You need to wait like 8 hour until after the stream. We don’t know how everything will shake out. Necro traits could end up stronger and other classes weaker than the last stream.

Yeh and pigs might fly :P. There is no point waiting for a few reasons:
1, Necro is conceptually limited – they wont give it healing, vigor, evades on weapon skills, ports, invulns. All of this is how you actually survive in pvp
2, Nobody at anet plays necromancer so they fundamentally dont understand its needs and they dont understand how to create traits to create viable builds. Sure they could stumble across it by luck but I doubt it.
3, Necro is judged from the view of fighting AGAINST IT. Hence why they remove or nerf stuff with no “counter play”. Other classes are judged by “that is cool to play with”. As in with the opposite perspective.

I thought necro was the one with cool theme,graphics and on theory(not paper) balance O.o apart from revenant that is. I’m saving a “3 more years to go” for after the stream get one too just in case one sure thing it can’t get worse than it is now this also could have a been a bad joke from the devs but it can’t get worse except for axe and OH dagger that is.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Roe.3679:

Lordrosicky.5813:

I am really disappointed that greater marks wasn’t merged into the staff trait. It is frustrating to have that stuck alone in the death magic line. The death magic line is useless for almost all necromancers. The grandmaster traits (which you now have to take if you go into that line) of death magic are all unviable in anything except minions (which is itself unviable). So greater marks is gone and with that any hope of really competing in pvp. Fighting dps guards and engis is hard enough with greater marks. Without it we are screwed. At least the condi spec is screwed.

The new traits will reward classes with coherent trait lines because they will be able to specialise by going into a single line. Necromancer has traits all over the place with no over-riding structure (like staff traits in different lines) because arenanet do not have a single dev who plays necro or understands necro. The new traits will lead to another 12 months where necro is worse than ever before. Other classes have coherent trait lines with clusters of things you can specialise in. They will be much stronger after the patch

You need to wait like 8 hour until after the stream. We don’t know how everything will shake out. Necro traits could end up stronger and other classes weaker than the last stream.

Yeh and pigs might fly :P. There is no point waiting for a few reasons:
1, Necro is conceptually limited – they wont give it healing, vigor, evades on weapon skills, ports, invulns. All of this is how you actually survive in pvp
2, Nobody at anet plays necromancer so they fundamentally dont understand its needs and they dont understand how to create traits to create viable builds. Sure they could stumble across it by luck but I doubt it.
3, Necro is judged from the view of fighting AGAINST IT. Hence why they remove or nerf stuff with no “counter play”. Other classes are judged by “that is cool to play with”. As in with the opposite perspective.

I don’t think it’s that black and white. Necro has some issues they can fix, and some they can’t. I think, personally, is that some classes lack weaknesses, and necro has a few too many. I wish that were evened out.

Roe.3679:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Roe.3679:

Lordrosicky.5813:

I am really disappointed that greater marks wasn’t merged into the staff trait. It is frustrating to have that stuck alone in the death magic line. The death magic line is useless for almost all necromancers. The grandmaster traits (which you now have to take if you go into that line) of death magic are all unviable in anything except minions (which is itself unviable). So greater marks is gone and with that any hope of really competing in pvp. Fighting dps guards and engis is hard enough with greater marks. Without it we are screwed. At least the condi spec is screwed.

The new traits will reward classes with coherent trait lines because they will be able to specialise by going into a single line. Necromancer has traits all over the place with no over-riding structure (like staff traits in different lines) because arenanet do not have a single dev who plays necro or understands necro. The new traits will lead to another 12 months where necro is worse than ever before. Other classes have coherent trait lines with clusters of things you can specialise in. They will be much stronger after the patch

You need to wait like 8 hour until after the stream. We don’t know how everything will shake out. Necro traits could end up stronger and other classes weaker than the last stream.

Yeh and pigs might fly :P. There is no point waiting for a few reasons:
1, Necro is conceptually limited – they wont give it healing, vigor, evades on weapon skills, ports, invulns. All of this is how you actually survive in pvp
2, Nobody at anet plays necromancer so they fundamentally dont understand its needs and they dont understand how to create traits to create viable builds. Sure they could stumble across it by luck but I doubt it.
3, Necro is judged from the view of fighting AGAINST IT. Hence why they remove or nerf stuff with no “counter play”. Other classes are judged by “that is cool to play with”. As in with the opposite perspective.

I don’t think it’s that black and white. Necro has some issues they can fix, and some they can’t. I think, personally, is that some classes lack weaknesses, and necro has a few too many. I wish that were evened out.

This. Necro is supposed to be designed to be a snowball/attrition type class. The longer it fights, the stronger it gets or the weaker your get, and then deathshroud is supposed to be our all powerful defense. But the problem is they seem to be balancing around what we can potentially do when we reach our full strength, ie, 100% deathshroud with bleeds and the like. So we’re being balanced around how strong we could potentially be.

I think what they need to do is to stop looking at DS as if it is a second health bar, and instead look at it as our OTHER health bar. Our scalable defense seems like it should come from how many people we are fighting. We need to be able to stand on our own two feet, literally, while taking an active approach to our fighting. Allowing siphons through DS is one way, but the also need to increase the amount of life force we get from our skills, making them more AoE oriented instead of single target, like feast of corruption, Axe 2, staff with the Life force from marks trait. If these would scale with the amount of enemies that got hit by them, we would finally be taking a step in the right direction for making necromancer a truly feared class, we still need help though when it comes to lockdown, but one step at a time.

I’m pretty sure the necro design will never work in conquest. The things that make you stand out are: mobility/sustain/support.

Anet has already said we won’t get traditional support, so we’re going to be pigeonholed into gimmicky things that will probably never be wanted unless they are overpowered. Which goes to the next thing; we will never have proper mobility. Ports are integral to Spvp, now I know you can be meta without ports, such as the shoutbow, but they provide the support we cannot. Also ports tie into sustain. Flat out negating damage is the best sustain there is. That’s why thieves and mesmers are so good. They can pull off so much, even though they have a really high skill ceiling to play properly. But they can evade an almost infinite amount of damage from focus fire and peel out of fights easily. Stealth is also a great sustain tool they have, the active defenses they have are the things that makes them so mobile to a degree as well. This allow them to almost always outperform in the roamer/damage role. Medi guard also gets the useful port, and hard counters these professions while giving team support so it’s also got more going for it.

The way I see it a necro can never succeed in conquest because our best bunker build can easily be outdone while the other builds have much more support in them. Our best roamer/damaging builds are done much better and we cannot sustain focus. The only way I ever see us in being meta is if we get something blatantly op, such as our old dhuumfire condi build, but even then I think we were over exaggerated.

I think some people will also point to Nos which I really don’t think is fair as well. He’s definitely a great player. But the NA scene isn’t that competitive in top tier PvP. Abjured as a team just overpowers everything and you don’t really see the liability of a necro as much (imo). I think in EU if you take out age limits you’re looking at abjured being 4th best team, but I think they’d be even higher if Nos could multiclass on something else at an equal level as necro.

Really, if you think about it, what’s good about a slow moving, slow casting, non team playing designed profession, where their mechanic is limited and suppose to be used for offense and defense at the same time? It’s supposed to be about attrition but combat in gw2 is fast paced. I just don’t really see what they can do with all of that to make it useful.

So in conclusion, I really don’t see much hope for us besides for 3 things: Giving necros something blatantly OP to make up for its deficiencies, giving up their special vision of the necro and make it more practical to ingame applications, or just a new a game mode that allows us to shine better, I’m not sure what type that’d be, but I don’t really think stronghold is the answer from what I played of it. I know there’s going to be a lot of wait and see with the traits and reaper specs responses, but the problems with necros are everywhere, from the design to the weapons to the utilities to the mechanic, trait changes still won’t bring us to a proper place, which is kind of sad imo seeing as its been almost 3 years.

I really don’t think trait changes will make us viable, just more quality of life stuff. This is merely from a PvP point of view as I hope many people can assume.

Sorry for sounding pessimistic yo.

L Step.8659:

I’m pretty sure the necro design will never work in conquest. The things that make you stand out are: mobility/sustain/support.

Anet has already said we won’t get traditional support, so we’re going to be pigeonholed into gimmicky things that will probably never be wanted unless they are overpowered. Which goes to the next thing; we will never have proper mobility. Ports are integral to Spvp, now I know you can be meta without ports, such as the shoutbow, but they provide the support we cannot. Also ports tie into sustain. Flat out negating damage is the best sustain there is. That’s why thieves and mesmers are so good. They can pull off so much, even though they have a really high skill ceiling to play properly. But they can evade an almost infinite amount of damage from focus fire and peel out of fights easily. Stealth is also a great sustain tool they have, the active defenses they have are the things that makes them so mobile to a degree as well. This allow them to almost always outperform in the roamer/damage role. Medi guard also gets the useful port, and hard counters these professions while giving team support so it’s also got more going for it.

The way I see it a necro can never succeed in conquest because our best bunker build can easily be outdone while the other builds have much more support in them. Our best roamer/damaging builds are done much better and we cannot sustain focus. The only way I ever see us in being meta is if we get something blatantly op, such as our old dhuumfire condi build, but even then I think we were over exaggerated.

I think some people will also point to Nos which I really don’t think is fair as well. He’s definitely a great player. But the NA scene isn’t that competitive in top tier PvP. Abjured as a team just overpowers everything and you don’t really see the liability of a necro as much (imo). I think in EU if you take out age limits you’re looking at abjured being 4th best team, but I think they’d be even higher if Nos could multiclass on something else at an equal level as necro.

Really, if you think about it, what’s good about a slow moving, slow casting, non team playing designed profession, where their mechanic is limited and suppose to be used for offense and defense at the same time? It’s supposed to be about attrition but combat in gw2 is fast paced. I just don’t really see what they can do with all of that to make it useful.

So in conclusion, I really don’t see much hope for us besides for 3 things: Giving necros something blatantly OP to make up for its deficiencies, giving up their special vision of the necro and make it more practical to ingame applications, or just a new a game mode that allows us to shine better, I’m not sure what type that’d be, but I don’t really think stronghold is the answer from what I played of it. I know there’s going to be a lot of wait and see with the traits and reaper specs responses, but the problems with necros are everywhere, from the design to the weapons to the utilities to the mechanic, trait changes still won’t bring us to a proper place, which is kind of sad imo seeing as its been almost 3 years.

I really don’t think trait changes will make us viable, just more quality of life stuff. This is merely from a PvP point of view as I hope many people can assume.

Sorry for sounding pessimistic yo.

Maybe the celestial nerf will help us. Currently there are classes like engi and ele and warrior which can do massive damage, massive support and be very tanky themselves. If celestial is made worse then they will no longer have 37% more stats. That can only be a good thing. I worked out a 10% nerf means they will still have around 20% more stats.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Yeh and pigs might fly :P. There is no point waiting for a few reasons:
1, Necro is conceptually limited – they wont give it healing, vigor, evades on weapon skills, ports, invulns. All of this is how you actually survive in pvp
2, Nobody at anet plays necromancer so they fundamentally dont understand its needs and they dont understand how to create traits to create viable builds. Sure they could stumble across it by luck but I doubt it.
3, Necro is judged from the view of fighting AGAINST IT. Hence why they remove or nerf stuff with no “counter play”. Other classes are judged by “that is cool to play with”. As in with the opposite perspective.

1. We’re getting more access to ways to heal (at least certain builds are) through blood magic. Excluding the fact that we haven’t seen how it’s actually being changed, if we ONLY got the traits as they are now in blood magic, transfusion is much easier to take in a number of builds (particularly in minion master builds as it no longer competes with vampiric minions.) Not only that, but transfusion is supposedly gonna heal downed allies too, which is huge.

We have ports in 2 skills (wurm and dark path) but I understand why they won’t give those to us. Thematically pulls make more sense on a necro, and we’re getting another one with the great sword.

Invulnerability skills are in my opinion, poorly designed skills and I’d rather we never get those. Anet wants us to use death shroud to fill those evades and invulnerability moments, and if they want to make that work, they need to make gaining life force easier for more builds.

2 and 3 are speculation, and really don’t have any basis.

Transfusion never competed with Vampiric Master, its currently an adept trait w/ VM at master. Still though, it opens up an extra trait option.

Good news they reversed all the skill/trait splits. Hopefully in pvp this means a reverse to the terror nerf, reverse the staff and scepter nerfs. That is the one good thing I see coming out of this patch