Guild Wars 2

ThCakeIsALie.5306:

This video shows why I disagree w/ you on a lot of points you make:
http://youtu.be/HzyVTFM7uSc

You sir, need to learn from the underdog pros.

That is a WvW video. I learned underdog pros post in the wrong threads.

Login.5102:

ThCakeIsALie.5306:

This video shows why I disagree w/ you on a lot of points you make:
http://youtu.be/HzyVTFM7uSc

You sir, need to learn from the underdog pros.

That is a WvW video. I learned underdog pros post in the wrong threads.

I just learned you didn’t see it was a NECROMANCER video under the NECROMANCER forum. Get your eyes checked.

Login.5102:

ThCakeIsALie.5306:

This video shows why I disagree w/ you on a lot of points you make:

Checked, your wrong.

No sir, you’re wrong.

Login.5102:

Andele.1306:

wifesteal).

Stay away from my woman.

Anyways it would have to be a huge healing buff like in your example. Because most life siphoning wont do anything about get focused down.

Lol and if they want us to be ping pong balls, how about gain health evertime your CC’d.

Thresh got 100% wifesteal from lucian~

Also as for cc, it would be a part of it, either DS cooldown working off entry or us getting shade.

Narkodx.1472:

Getting focused? Deathshroud, eat some hits then ground target to a safe area via dark path, heal, re-position, rejoin the fight – in gw2 PvP – THAT is the definition of sustain.

The problem with the necro is that you can’t regen your LF/HP when you are out of the fight.

ThCakeIsALie.5306:

This video shows why I disagree w/ you on a lot of points you make:
http://youtu.be/HzyVTFM7uSc

You sir, need to learn from the underdog pros.

Conditionmasters are much stronger in WvW than PvP, because they got less nerfs (especially duration and stacks). Moreover duelling in WvW means nothing, because many player have no expierences in PvP and additionally they use WvWtraits.

You should simply go in PvP and test some necromancerbuilds. You will see you die a lot, because expierenced player always focusses Necromancer. They just know you can’t escape, you can’t survive, you are just a victim. It doesn’t matter which build you play, it’s always the same.

My opinion: Deathshrout should compensate the lack of mobility and stability, but it doesn’t. If you use it, you are even weaker and attract people to attack you. If you play glascanon your deathshrout has not enough lifeforce to protect you. If you play bunker, your deathshrout is fine, but you are not able to defeat a player (or stomp them!!).

Since the other classes got buffed and necromancer got nerfed over and over again, this class is broken.

pierwola.9602:

Narkodx.1472:

Getting focused? Deathshroud, eat some hits then ground target to a safe area via dark path, heal, re-position, rejoin the fight – in gw2 PvP – THAT is the definition of sustain.

The problem with the necro is that you can’t regen your LF/HP when you are out of the fight.

I swear to god that the Necro has a longer than average timer for getting out of combat.
The number of times I saw a war/thief leap away and gain ooc regen before mine kicked while dueling him in WvW is ridiculous.

I like dark path as it is. It could do with a projectile speed increase but thats about it. I dont want to see it as a ground target skill. I think that would make necros too mobile and it would make it harder to hit your targets with dark path. Im all for mobility or some other form of active defence somewhere else though.

Dark path won’t become a ground targeted spell, it doesn’t have anything to do with balance as such, it just goes against the class design. I’ve always thought it deserved to be a non-projectile spell, akin to what Risen Nobles in Orr can do, but that’s about it. The only issue is reliability, otherwise it should remain as is. Target independent gap closers are off limits to necromancers.

There are other things as well, like vigor and evades, that we’ll never get. Blocks and aegis don’t make a whole lot of sense either. Though I could imagine a short duration invulnerability on necros, perhaps tied to DS entry/exit (cooldown can be adjusted as needed). That would be one possible contribution to solving the focus fire issue. Stability is another (and probably more likely) way to go, and also seems to be on the table, so while it isn’t much there are a few options available.

The other problem that must be addressed is sustain. Current options are either only good for specific builds (i.e. minion necros), only work with an abundance of targets around (parasitic contagion, vampiric traits), or are just plain underwhelming (unholy sanctuary). It’s odd how a.net insists on building inherent limitations into our sustain traits that make them redundant one way or another. Anyway, I still believe the best option is a redesign of the blood line so that 1) the vampiric traits can become viable (or be replaced with something that is) and 2) healing power can become a relevant attribute for necromancers, so that we can get a proper tradeoff going between offense/defense.

ManaCraft.5630:

2) healing power can become a relevant attribute for necromancers, so that we can get a proper tradeoff going between offense/defense.

You know, how about we make siphons scale on something actually related to death shroud… like vitality? Or make a overall triple imput (vitality boosts both components, power boosts damage, healing power boosts healing) with current scaling multipliers (0.2% for P/HP and 0.4% for vitality?)

Andele.1306:

You know, how about we make siphons scale on something actually related to death shroud… like vitality? Or make a overall triple imput (vitality boosts both components, power boosts damage, healing power boosts healing) with current scaling multipliers (0.2% for P/HP and 0.4% for vitality?)

I wouldn’t outright dismiss the idea, you probably have some room to work with, but it’s a mechanic that easily gets out of hand. It depends on the extent to which you think it’s healthy for a class to be allowed to double dip with an attribute. Or triple dip rather, since vitality would then boost life, life force, and healing. To be honest, with the already high amount of base life on necros, you’d probably have a hard time justifying it.

If the blood line was designed properly, no one would care about dire gear – they’d be worried about apothecary’s instead.

ManaCraft.5630:

Andele.1306:

You know, how about we make siphons scale on something actually related to death shroud… like vitality? Or make a overall triple imput (vitality boosts both components, power boosts damage, healing power boosts healing) with current scaling multipliers (0.2% for P/HP and 0.4% for vitality?)

I wouldn’t outright dismiss the idea, you probably have some room to work with, but it’s a mechanic that easily gets out of hand. It depends on the extent to which you think it’s healthy for a class to be allowed to double dip with an attribute. Or triple dip rather, since vitality would then boost life, life force, and healing. To be honest, with the already high amount of base life on necros, you’d probably have a hard time justifying it.

If the blood line was designed properly, no one would care about dire gear – they’d be worried about apothecary’s instead.

Well thats kinda exactly the point since the more hp a profession has, the longer it takes for its burst to go off (seriously think, the 3 professions with instakill combos are medi guards, air eles and thieves, while both warrior and necro rely on a buildup to slap someone; tho warriors being actually able to stick in there because they can regen 400hp pre second with minimal sacrifice).

Did you guys watch the tourney last week? I wonder why there weren’t any necros in the last 4-5 teams.

Tim.6450:

Swimsasa Stoon.8936:

Dear Blackmoa,
I main elementalist and after trying out multiple classes when the elementalist was nerfed to the ground I found the Necromancer and the engineer to be the most rewarding.
Engineer has an amazing burst and great mobility and perks. The Necromancer has very very high damage, high hp, quite tanky even if you go full zerker.

Just so ya know I start thinking a class/build is good only when you can beat people in a 1v3 which I did several times with the necromancer. Now I have not tried out many builds with the Necromancer I’ve just made a power minion build and when the minion AI was ruined I switched to just Power/DS-build. 15 stacks of vulnerability, 100% crit chance. It all adds up to 4-5k dps from 1200 range. Near double that in lich form so I don’t quite understand why you think that the Necromancer is in a bad spot right now in tpvp…

tpvp is not about fighting, it’s about capping points. So the pvp maps are in reality 3 concentrated spots you have to be and the rest is moving space. This will mean that team fights are quite common. Since the necromancer has no scaling defense (@manacraft a defense on finite resource is okay, it just needs to scale with the amount of enemies), it is an easy target for picking and make us bad in team fights. Our allies can’t protect us that well since deathshroud blocks healing (an important aspect of support),unlike any other class. So all in all we don’t want to be in a team fight, this wouldn’t be a problem if we could easily disengage and move to another point but the necromancer is just so slow that it is just a waste of time. So no, we are in a bad place in tpvp.

I play close to a hundred tpvp matches every week. Zerker Necromancer non-standard build is what I use. It somewhat lacks mobility but over all its incredible. stacking 25 vulnerability easily. 100% crit chance and life force easily replenishable and sustainable. We have permanent swiftness and a ton of aoe and piercing damage. High damage as well. Necromancer also has the most powerfull elite in the intire game.

Even in my zerker gear I can still survive the onslought of 3+ people for 20 or so seconds, more than enough time to down attleast two of them and there’s nothing they can do about it.

About state of Necromancer in team pvp?
Necro dont have 2 very important abilities to be good here:
1. No Mobility
2. No good defence vs focus fire.

1- no mobility- means:
- you cannot move fast enought from point a to point b or cannot move fast enought with your team,
-you cannot escape fight when going bad,
-you cannot pursuit even half brain pll when he going to lose fight- he use mobility skills to run, you have only swiftness with is not enought to cath him,
- at the end of the day this means when you fight with some other class on 1 vs1 and there come 1 more player:
a) your team player- the enemy has chance to escape and come back with friend,
b) enemy team player- you dead.

This is about have a choice to get chance here or don’t.

2.No good defence vs focus fire- means:
- you are not able to escape from dps train (in ds lf will be eaten in 1, 2 seconds, no invulnerability, no invisibility, no block, no even vigor),
- this mean that as necromancer you are on top on focus fire from enemy team,
- you live not enought to do dps- killing enemys is muth harder when you die
- at the end of the day you will see that play class with atack ability is ok, but have a class with atack/defence ability is better, Because if you play a class in pvp and die there becose of lack of defence abilitys, your atack does not matter here. You dead Robb… go home.

Same here about have a choice to get chance here or don’t.

And my opinion about state of necro in pvp is no mobility= bad, but no moblity + no good defence abilities= veery bad.

I dont tell that this class need a buffs or someting- i just whone tell that this class IN MY OPINION is not good choice on pvp .. for now ofc.

I don’t know if translator doing good work to translate this text, but i hope you understand what i mean

You do not survive for 20 kittening seconds in zerker gear on a necro you liar. You play 100 hotjoins. I’m getting sick of people posting kitten kitten trying to say necro is actually the best spvp class, yeah your right the other 90% of ppvpers are wrong. We are a very strong 1v1 against certain builds and classes. You can make a build that’s mobile but its only swiftness and wurm and then your sacrificing something that’s going to get killed.

NeXeD.3042:

You do not survive for 20 kittening seconds in zerker gear on a necro you liar. You play 100 hotjoins. I’m getting sick of people posting kitten kitten trying to say necro is actually the best spvp class, yeah your right the other 90% of ppvpers are wrong. We are a very strong 1v1 against certain builds and classes. You can make a build that’s mobile but its only swiftness and wurm and then your sacrificing something that’s going to get killed.

it takes skill seeing as you’ve never experienced it I can deduce that you lack skill. Don’t blame me for that.

Or the players you are against lack the skill to left click you and press a button. A zerker necro with the ability to impact a fight in any way does not have the defenses to survive for 10 seconds, let alone 20, against 3+ people focusing them. You have Spectral Armor, at best, which will allow you to nullify one person’s damage for less than half the time you say you can survive, and after that you have nothing.

Wanna prove I lack skill? You play your zerker ill play my build well see how long you last against 1 player

Can I watch? This could get hawt.

I wanna watch this to
Or can i be the second who will fight YOU- Swimsasa Stoon.8936.?
You can choose to fight my Necromancer (my 1 class- main), warior, thief, mesmer, elementalist- choose your weapon
I have played Necro too long to know that Swimsasa Stoon.8936 its a TROLL.
You can survive 20 second when fight against 3 pll only if they play gw 2 first day and just come to pvp to look how it works. But what you can do against pll who are not totally noobs??

Swimsasa Stoon.8936:
“Even in my zerker gear I can still survive the onslought of 3+ people for 20 or so seconds, more than enough time to down attleast two of them and there’s nothing they can do about it.”

Prove me Swimsasa Stoon.8936 that you are not just another lier

First we can fight 1 vs1, then 1 vs2 then 1vs3- i will show You how WRONG You are
And can ofc explain you why You are not able to survive ff with Necro.
Then i can show you which class can survive ff on 1vs2, 1vs3, 1vs3+, which is able to escape from fight 1vs3+, and which is still able to fight on 1vs2,3. Then i will show you the real master of ATTRITION- no no necro. Necro is bad at attrition- necro it’s more like sinking ship- sometimes sink faster sometimes slower

It will be FUN I PROMISE!!!

Swimsasa Stoon.8936:

I play close to a hundred tpvp matches every week.

Swimsasa Stoon.8936
sPvP rank 999
Personal best rank 977 (34 day, 18 hour ago)
Wins 10
Loses 8

I’m gonna kill him with a signet necro.

Zerker well build can last a while
people are.idiots.and.stay in the.wells majority of the.time(spvp)

I dont.think swimsasa really.knows what zerker.gear is.
I have a tanky well.build that would drop a zerker necro faster then he can drop me to 40%

So three v me:
Alamore.1974
NeXed.3042
KlausKNT.9302

Sounds like fun
I’ll also record some necro play and my build and put it on youtube. Have wanted to do that for a while.
But to be honest if even just one of you is a zerker thief or mesmer I will without a doubt lose in no time.

What the kitten happened to surviving for 20 seconds… 1v3 now you say if one of us is a mesmer its over?

NeXeD.3042:

What the kitten happened to surviving for 20 seconds… 1v3 now you say if one of us is a mesmer its over?

I can 3v1 for hours, but only if two of you don’t attack me at all

maybe he’s got an elite lag hack.

NeXeD.3042:

What the kitten happened to surviving for 20 seconds… 1v3 now you say if one of us is a mesmer its over?

I said 1v3 can happen as a zerker necro I didn’t say I could beat any 3 people any time with my necro. I’m not that confident in my skills :p

It wasn’t about beating us just saying you can survive 20 seconds 1v3 against anyone pugs pros whatever in full zerker, even the dumbest three players should be able to just stun lock the crap out of you and if your in full zerkers your going to take too much damage, ifyour full lifeforce maybe you could survive for a little but not 20 seconds.

Swimsasa Stoon.8936:

NeXeD.3042:

What the kitten happened to surviving for 20 seconds… 1v3 now you say if one of us is a mesmer its over?

I said 1v3 can happen as a zerker necro I didn’t say I could beat any 3 people any time with my necro. I’m not that confident in my skills :p

But you did say that 1v3 you would be able to kill 2 of them.
I play a verry tanky build with decent damage and ally support. If.my necro was.in the fite 1v3 you would lose without killing any one.

His plan is to just immediately use Lich….. Which is a great idea if the person he’s fighting isn’t a terror necro in rampagers who is just gonna corrupt his stability and fear him for 8 seconds.

NeXeD.3042:

His plan is to just immediately use Lich….. Which is a great idea if the person he’s fighting isn’t a terror necro in rampagers who is just gonna corrupt his stability and fear him for 8 seconds.

Hambow with a sigil of nullification. Strips the stability, then proceeds to use him as a giant green golf ball.

Just for the hell of it.

Guardians would throw up Wall of Reflection and let him kill himself.

alamore.1974:

Swimsasa Stoon.8936:

NeXeD.3042:

What the kitten happened to surviving for 20 seconds… 1v3 now you say if one of us is a mesmer its over?

I said 1v3 can happen as a zerker necro I didn’t say I could beat any 3 people any time with my necro. I’m not that confident in my skills :p

But you did say that 1v3 you would be able to kill 2 of them.
I play a verry tanky build with decent damage and ally support. If.my necro was.in the fite 1v3 you would lose without killing any one.

Yup I did say that, key is the element of suprise ofcourse. I would really wanna try out that tanky build of yours. Never tried a tanky necromancer before.

They should buff axe 1 :p, i tried it vs war and he regenerated more hp with hs and trait than i dealt dmg just with axe 1 (with soldier amulet) … buff!!! (or nerf war)

That healing signet certainly is dumb. Warriors should not be good at healing themselves with the amount of invuln they have.

Well..from my own experience in necromancer pvp i can tell you that vs 3 people with zerker(i run powermancer/wellomancer) i can stand max(if they all focus me) 10 seconds(thats it if in advance i have blinded them for a bit).
Thing is i agree with everyone else,necromancer lacks mobility and sustain!Hope Anet sees that and rework(i am looking at you axe) or fix some issues(maybe buff too).
P.s.
Lich OP(if not for vs experienced player that is :p)
P.s. of p.s.
I vote for Lich 3 fear instead of chill…sh1!t got serious!:p

Swimsasa Stoon.8936

So when You have time to try some fights??
I have time today
We can do it today ?
on me its 10 EU time – now.
I can fight tanky builds if you afraid of zerker gear on thief or mes (but zerker is ofc much beter here).
I just whone show you some class “balance” aspects of the game, and you can see this on your own eyes that this 20 second on 1 vs 3 will never happen when you play Necromancer.
So w8ting – it will be fun

20 seconds isnt very long.

Kiriakulos.1690:

pierwola.9602:

Narkodx.1472:

Getting focused? Deathshroud, eat some hits then ground target to a safe area via dark path, heal, re-position, rejoin the fight – in gw2 PvP – THAT is the definition of sustain.

The problem with the necro is that you can’t regen your LF/HP when you are out of the fight.

I swear to god that the Necro has a longer than average timer for getting out of combat.
The number of times I saw a war/thief leap away and gain ooc regen before mine kicked while dueling him in WvW is ridiculous.

I literally walked from one side of the map to the other in pvp before it let me out of combat =s

Emapudapus.1307:

They should buff axe 1 :p, i tried it vs war and he regenerated more hp with hs and trait than i dealt dmg just with axe 1 (with soldier amulet) … buff!!! (or nerf war)

have you ever tried to kill a regen ranger with axe ? =|……..

NeXeD.3042:

Wanna prove I lack skill? You play your zerker ill play my build well see how long you last against 1 player

What about this fight? Already done? How it ended? When will it take place?

Post here time and place, to go and see it.

20 seconds is a wicked long time in pvp……. unless it’s two extreme bunkers fighting almost all fights should be over before 20 seconds, unless of course one of the fighters is a little kitten and keeps running away.

Fight hasn’t happened yet, I work 24s so I can do it Wednesday night est after 8, or all day friday.

NeXeD.3042:

20 seconds is a wicked long time in pvp……. unless it’s two extreme bunkers fighting almost all fights should be over before 20 seconds, unless of course one of the fighters is a little kitten and keeps running away.

Fight hasn’t happened yet, I work 24s so I can do it Wednesday night est after 8, or all day friday.

Not to be a buzzkill, but even in tournament warmup games there were instances of something like a engie and guard going at eachother for over 2 mintues…

Kiriakulos.1690:

pierwola.9602:

Narkodx.1472:

Getting focused? Deathshroud, eat some hits then ground target to a safe area via dark path, heal, re-position, rejoin the fight – in gw2 PvP – THAT is the definition of sustain.

The problem with the necro is that you can’t regen your LF/HP when you are out of the fight.

I swear to god that the Necro has a longer than average timer for getting out of combat.
The number of times I saw a war/thief leap away and gain ooc regen before mine kicked while dueling him in WvW is ridiculous.

I think it has to do with your conditions still ticking on the enemy keeping you in combat.

When did this go from some moron saying he could survive 20 seconds 3v1 in full zerkers on a necro too a bunker engi and a bunker guardian fighting for 2 minutes….. Two bunkers fighting it’s quite possible for the fight to not end until one of them makes a stupid mistake. I was on a clerics dd ele and ended up fighting some stupid bunker warrior for like an hour one night before we both just started dancing.

Bunker vs Bunker can go for minutes, sure. I had some duels with the old D/D eles that we couldn’t ever finish because the match would end.

nekretaal.6485:

Kiriakulos.1690:

pierwola.9602:

Narkodx.1472:

Getting focused? Deathshroud, eat some hits then ground target to a safe area via dark path, heal, re-position, rejoin the fight – in gw2 PvP – THAT is the definition of sustain.

The problem with the necro is that you can’t regen your LF/HP when you are out of the fight.

I swear to god that the Necro has a longer than average timer for getting out of combat.
The number of times I saw a war/thief leap away and gain ooc regen before mine kicked while dueling him in WvW is ridiculous.

I think it has to do with your conditions still ticking on the enemy keeping you in combat.

I noticed it in a 1v1 against a war in WvW.
He got out of combat some 6 seconds before I did while I was trying to close the distance and kill him.
Couldn’t have been condis or else he shouldn’t get out of combat either.

Login.5102:

Swimsasa Stoon.8936:

I play close to a hundred tpvp matches every week.

Swimsasa Stoon.8936
sPvP rank 999
Personal best rank 977 (34 day, 18 hour ago)
Wins 10
Loses 8

This is why we probably wont ever get buffed. Bottom line is necro works or is even OP in lower levels and noobs will never let us get buffed. GG

sorrow.2364:

2) This is balanced around the downed state health. Necromancers have a sub-par downed state, so does Warrior. This is because downed state health scales only on base HP, which means that Warriors and Necromancers are the most tough professions to kill just by cleave and, as a consequence, the easiest to ress.

I’m not sure you’re right about that. IMHO, the best downed state skills are the ones that can completely avoid a stomp, even when it’s being made with stability. The only ones that can do that are thieves, eles, and mesmers. Thieves and eles have low health, but mesmers have medium health, and if anything their downed state is even stronger than ele’s.

If you can’t avoid a stability stomp, the 2nd best downed state skills are the ones that interrupt in an aoe around the caster. Only rangers and guardians have those, and I don’t think anyone would argue that the ranger’s is better even though they have higher base health than the guardian (sure the guardian’s does pushback, but it also has a longer cast time and a telegraphed animation, making it super easy to dodge – also, the ranger’s 3 skill is on a lower cooldown than the guardian’s and heals for more).

I would love it if you were right and downed states were balanced according to downed health (or according to anything else forthat matter), but I think the inconsistencies between the various professions show that no such thought went into designing each class’s downed state at all.