Guild Wars 2

Good day everyone,

Even though i don’t really get involved, almost ever, in the threads on these forums… i am still lurking around. I’ve watched as the necromancer community has shifted from just complaints to actual positive threads, i like to think i had something to do with that.

Recently i’ve seen more and more people are discussing how does this or that build work in a 1v1 scenario inside World vs World. While the answers can be either positive or negative… the main point is entirely different.
I have tried to exemplify the fact that the actual question is wrong… knowing if a build can perform well in a 1v1 situation is irrelevant, since 1v1 will not happen too often in World vs World…

Here is the highlights of what you can expect on average, in 4 hours of looking for 1v1s in World vs World (with commentary).

Guild Wars 2 – The truth about World vs World (and some announcements…)

Enjoy

Nemesis, I really enjoyed all your videos. Your right what happens with the 1vs1 in wvw. Everything you did in that video has happened to me.
I will be looking forward to your healing build.

I know the point you’re trying to make, but ultimately It’s about having fun; because sure, running around for people to gank isn’t greatly helping your server or anything, but your server winning or losing doesn’t make much difference anyway.

With find 1v1 kills it’s mainly about knowing where to hang out, certain areas are much better for finding lone targets, some places are very bad because you can’t see groups coming until quite late. As well as that, you have to keep in mind what everyone else is doing, if one server is trying top open a keep, then inevitably there will be lots of people coming back from their spawn/supply camps, giving you plentiful targets. By the same token, a map where all three servers have a strong presence increases the chance of lone people wandering about; sometimes I open up the WvW map and can immediately say it’s not worth going for a solo wander right now.

Also the right trait/gear setup makes a very significant difference when on your own. You were just in your PvE gear, so you weren’t geared specifically for solo work, but stuff like perm swiftness means you can very often flee from a zerg safely with the help of doom, charge and a few other abilities quite reliably. Stability on stomp is another game changer for small group/solo work, as it all but secures your stomps, even when facing multiple people – if you can’t reliably stomp then you’re at a big disadvantage in a lot of situations.

Also carrying very heavy cc/slows means the difference between killing people like thieves and eles, and often having them simply escape. Sure by no means can they not escape no matter what (sword thief is actually the most difficult to hold since infiltrator’s strike is honestly OP), but when you can hold a d/d ele pretty reliably then other, less mobile builds have no chance of completely escaping.

I noticed multiple times you got zerged you could have escaped if you did it at the right time, and if you were built the right way, but this is where locust sig simply doesn’t cut it- for chasing people or escaping it’s the same, you have to be faster then they are, which means going as fast as physically possible, and atleast one stun break that isn’t the wurm.

Again, ultimately it’s about fun, some people find this sort of thing enjoyable, others don’t and there is no reason to not let the people that do enjoy it to try find the very best they can do with what we’ve got as necromancer. Honestly speaking, we’re actually one of the more blessed classes for 1v1 in WvW, where mobility (and mobility denial) is so important.

I feel a necro escaping a zerg is like no chance unless they see them at a far distance before hand. Also traiting 30 into SR just for a 3s stability is rather un-rewarding.

I won’t repeat what the guy above just said, I’ll just add that there’s stuff to be achieved by going solo in WvW besides just fun.
You can contribute by flipping camps, killing people lagging behind a zerg thus denying resources, etc.

I just can’t agree with this right now:

Honestly speaking, we’re actually one of the more blessed classes for 1v1 in WvW, where mobility (and mobility denial) is so important.

Some other classes seem, in my eyes, much better designed for escaping/chasing.

You can absolutely accomplish things by yourself in WvW. If you are just looking for 1v1s, yes that can be hard to find. But achieving things solo? No. You can flip camps solo, that the opposing team then takes multiple defenders, or even a whole team, to take back. This is a huge manpower advantage for your team.

You can destroy and capture Quaggan nodes. You can capture Quaggan island. You can contest keeps to distract defenders. You can contest waypoints to help your team make an attack so the enemy zerg can’t port there. You can scout enemy zerg movements. You can cut off lone runners running back from a fight. Sometimes you are the one running back from a fight and are forced to be alone. You can capture NPC scouts. You can destroy dolyak caravans. You can do jump puzzles for siege. Many of these things are optimal to do alone, and not waste time organizing a group for – if you can succeed at them.

All those things above you can also defend from happening from a solo perspective. If another lone player is trying to kill one of your Yaks, or solo your camp, you should have every chance to stop them 1v1 if you play well and not have to go call a team just because they are one profession and you are a necromancer.

Reality is your build and effectiveness matters a ton more being solo, or in 1v1 situations than in zerg situations. In zerg situations, any build can help and contribute. Even if you aren’t that good, you can live just by being smart and staying in the back ranks. You can always fire a siege weapon, or carry supply and help build things. But being helpful just by being there doesn’t work if you are alone. That requires balanced professions for even footing.

Now just because you yourself are solo does not mean you will run into other solo opponents. This is true. However this is where mobility and escape mechanisms come in.

Solo play happens a lot in lower tiers, when there are many times of the day, off peak, where there might be less than 25 attackers or defenders on an entire map. I have defended a tower from 15 players by myself with proper siege placement. But often you have to get into the tower first, by getting past them solo.

All these actions and scenarios above are possible and should be viable for any player that wants to do them. Not just ‘play a thief or elementalist’ if you want to do anything other than zerg 24/7.

Biggest problem with the video, the player engages losing situations, seemingly on purpose to prove a point. The #1 important thing in running solo in WvW is awareness and picking your fights. Never letting superior numbers close distance to you if you don’t have a good chance to kill them. Purposely running into 2-4 players because you think you can kill them is simply not smart and does not represent an effective solo playstyle, nor does it negate that you can have success doing it.

I have read everything that has been written here, and i agree in the most part. I did not make this video for the people that obviously know the 1v1 spots, that know how zergs move and when they move, the ones that know how to make a quick in and out… the more experienced WvW players. I’ve made this one for new too medium skill players that may go into WvW with the wrong impression…

I know that some players look at World vs World and think PvP… ok then, what’s a good build that i can hold my own with vs any class. I’ve seen this written on these forums at least 10 times in the last week or so… “a build that i can hold my own in PvP”.

Their mindset is that… you go around WvW and you find honorable 1v1s, you kill or get killed and you have some fun… wrong… you die, and you get zerged…
You can play the infiltrator of course, but that is not for the people that have the mindset just described.

Yes… i stood on purpose to get captured by some zergs, cause that seems like the sort of thing an average player would fall for. Most of my very detailed tutorials are this detailed because they are not meant for the most experienced of necromancers, they don’t need tutorials in the first place.

I also mentioned thieves and elementalists because it requires a lot less skill to escape an average skill level zerg (that breaks pursuit as soon as you vanish or blink) as a thief or elementalist then it does as a necromancer.

I find my point still valid, average players should not expect to do honorable 1v1s in WvW, therefor shouldn’t be focusing on finding a very good 1v1 build. You can go for a team play build that works well 1v1, in zerg and at sieges… or you can go for an infiltrator build which relies very heavily on mobility and escape (tankish dagger wielding power build with max mobility + 1 minion + Lich Form for handling 1v1s) but that would be too much information for the average player in one video.

Nemesis.8593:

I find my point still valid, average players should not expect to do honorable 1v1s in WvW, therefor shouldn’t be focusing on finding a very good 1v1 build. You can go for a team play build that works well 1v1, in zerg and at sieges… or you can go for an infiltrator build which relies very heavily on mobility and escape (tankish dagger wielding power build with max mobility + 1 minion + Lich Form for handling 1v1s) but that would be too much information for the average player in one video.

For the average player that just wants to find the big zerg, or some big team group and get into large battles and standard tower/keep sieging all the time, yes, you don’t need to build for 1v1 at all.

Still even for those players, it sits uncomfortable with me that we should tell them, better hope you never get into a 1v1 because you are dead meat.

Also players should remember they can freely swap out utilities, and possibly even switch out traits they have access to, depending what situation they are in. For instance if I was 20 into death magic, in a group I would trait Staff Mastery, but alone I would change to Reaper’s Protection.

I run a variant of Nemesis’s Abomination build for WvWvW. Zerg fighting is all about AOE and Tanking. Long survival, condition removal, boons, and large AOE tagging are the order of the day.

Bellocchi.4593:

I won’t repeat what the guy above just said, I’ll just add that there’s stuff to be achieved by going solo in WvW besides just fun.
You can contribute by flipping camps, killing people lagging behind a zerg thus denying resources, etc.

I just can’t agree with this right now:

Honestly speaking, we’re actually one of the more blessed classes for 1v1 in WvW, where mobility (and mobility denial) is so important.

Some other classes seem, in my eyes, much better designed for escaping/chasing.

Necro meet Guardian. Want an oar for the same boat we are in? Oh wait, nevermind, get out of my boat, you have range…

:p

Pendragon.8735:

Nemesis.8593:

I find my point still valid, average players should not expect to do honorable 1v1s in WvW, therefor shouldn’t be focusing on finding a very good 1v1 build. You can go for a team play build that works well 1v1, in zerg and at sieges… or you can go for an infiltrator build which relies very heavily on mobility and escape (tankish dagger wielding power build with max mobility + 1 minion + Lich Form for handling 1v1s) but that would be too much information for the average player in one video.

For the average player that just wants to find the big zerg, or some big team group and get into large battles and standard tower/keep sieging all the time, yes, you don’t need to build for 1v1 at all.

Still even for those players, it sits uncomfortable with me that we should tell them, better hope you never get into a 1v1 because you are dead meat.

Also players should remember they can freely swap out utilities, and possibly even switch out traits they have access to, depending what situation they are in. For instance if I was 20 into death magic, in a group I would trait Staff Mastery, but alone I would change to Reaper’s Protection.

The build i was using was (except the gear which i didn’t change) made to do well in 1v1s (as the video shows) but it’s mainly used in team fights and also provides high efficiency while laying siege to something and defending something. So it’s not a bad 1v1 build…

I had a problem with the question/request of “finding a good 1v1 build for WvW” because that build won’t do much for you in reality… you either get a build that can do something 1v1 AND in team fights AND at sieges, and you use it properly or you find a build that can do well in 1v1 AND escape the zergs, and use that the right way as well. Finding a build that does well in 1v1 AND nothing else will eventually give you an unpleasant gaming experience.

It’s all based around what actually happens in World vs World… you could find the build that in some magical divine way you never lose a single 1v1, and then never have a change to do 1v1s… ever… I have exaggerated now just to make a point…

Nemesis.8593:

Pendragon.8735:

Nemesis.8593:

I find my point still valid, average players should not expect to do honorable 1v1s in WvW, therefor shouldn’t be focusing on finding a very good 1v1 build. You can go for a team play build that works well 1v1, in zerg and at sieges… or you can go for an infiltrator build which relies very heavily on mobility and escape (tankish dagger wielding power build with max mobility + 1 minion + Lich Form for handling 1v1s) but that would be too much information for the average player in one video.

For the average player that just wants to find the big zerg, or some big team group and get into large battles and standard tower/keep sieging all the time, yes, you don’t need to build for 1v1 at all.

Still even for those players, it sits uncomfortable with me that we should tell them, better hope you never get into a 1v1 because you are dead meat.

Also players should remember they can freely swap out utilities, and possibly even switch out traits they have access to, depending what situation they are in. For instance if I was 20 into death magic, in a group I would trait Staff Mastery, but alone I would change to Reaper’s Protection.

The build i was using was (except the gear which i didn’t change) made to do well in 1v1s (as the video shows) but it’s mainly used in team fights and also provides high efficiency while laying siege to something and defending something. So it’s not a bad 1v1 build…

I had a problem with the question/request of “finding a good 1v1 build for WvW” because that build won’t do much for you in reality… you either get a build that can do something 1v1 AND in team fights AND at sieges, and you use it properly or you find a build that can do well in 1v1 AND escape the zergs, and use that the right way as well. Finding a build that does well in 1v1 AND nothing else will eventually give you an unpleasant gaming experience.

It’s all based around what actually happens in World vs World… you could find the build that in some magical divine way you never lose a single 1v1, and then never have a change to do 1v1s… ever… I have exaggerated now just to make a point…

What exactly was the build and gear you were using?
Was it the rampagers off of your hybrid build? Giev details just so we know what was used

Nemesis.8593:

I know that some players look at World vs World and think PvP… ok then, what’s a good build that i can hold my own with vs any class. I’ve seen this written on these forums at least 10 times in the last week or so… “a build that i can hold my own in PvP”.

Their mindset is that… you go around WvW and you find honorable 1v1s, you kill or get killed and you have some fun… wrong… you die, and you get zerged…
You can play the infiltrator of course, but that is not for the people that have the mindset just described.

When I’m looking for a build that can hold its own in WvW, what I’m looking for is a very specific thing to accomplish a very specific task. I want to roam the map, kill yaks, flip camps, and do the underwater events without having to immediately concede defeat because a thief decided to show up. I want a build that excels in small group and solo encounters, has enough mobility to run away when I’m outnumbered (if I notice in time), has enough damage/survival/staying power to take on 2 or 3 upleveled/badly played opponents, and can make a 1vs.1 against a very good opponent a close race.

In short, I want to roam and look for good fights because they are fun. That’s what most people mean when they ask for a good 1v1 build.

The most important lesson from this video is how rapidly Nemesis applies bleeding to his foes. They gets 9+ stacks so quickly and died pretty quick. If you are a conditionmancer you would need this.

CHIPS.6018:

The most important lesson from this video is how rapidly Nemesis applies bleeding to his foes. They gets 9+ stacks so quickly and died pretty quick. If you are a conditionmancer you would need this.

But wouldn’t that also be intentionally missing his overall point?

PinCushion.7390:

CHIPS.6018:

The most important lesson from this video is how rapidly Nemesis applies bleeding to his foes. They gets 9+ stacks so quickly and died pretty quick. If you are a conditionmancer you would need this.

But wouldn’t that also be intentionally missing his overall point?

Well the fact that necros sucks in roaming in wvw should be common knowledge by now. We got no disengage whatsoever.

I LOL’ed when he tried to 1vs2, but there is a 3rd thief hidden so it was actually 1vs3. ^^

CHIPS.6018:

PinCushion.7390:

CHIPS.6018:

The most important lesson from this video is how rapidly Nemesis applies bleeding to his foes. They gets 9+ stacks so quickly and died pretty quick. If you are a conditionmancer you would need this.

But wouldn’t that also be intentionally missing his overall point?

Well the fact that necros sucks in roaming in wvw should be common knowledge by now.

I LOL’ed when he tried to 1vs2, but there is a 3rd thief hidden so it was actually 1vs3. ^^

Ah, I thought his point was that roaming in-general was fairly unimportant at the end of the day and that zergs run WvW. That we shouldn’t care that necros don’t have a good roaming build because we have great zerg builds, and that’s what wins matches.

@PinCushion

Anyone who cares about winning matches should just transfer to JQ, there all matches won and you don’t even need to be online.

I’m more inclined to go with WarMourner, WvW is about pitting my build, which I built with my time and grind and fine-tuned, against others and see who came out on top.

That’s the kind of feeling that I can’t get in sPvP, bags and loot is a very nice incentive as well.

You can roam as a necro, I run axe/focus with knights everything save weapons (zero on them) and I can come out on top more often then not 1v1 and 2v1 (or 5v2 since I run with a friend a lot).

But if you want to rank up and get free loots just get a staff spec for it and tag away.

OP makes good point. Necro’s utility allows it to perform anything you want when matched by player skill. However, the real PvP population in GW2 is split between SPVP, TPVP, WvW and all of he various tiers. Thus, in WvW you find mostly scrubs and zergmongerers. This is not meant as a super-insult, just a fact that skilled PvP in WvW, and the ever-desired “honorable fights” some of us enjoyed in DAoC is rather lean to be kind.

Sometimes I swear I am the only one who bows after a rare “honorable fight”

Kiriakulos.1690:

@PinCushion

Anyone who cares about winning matches should just transfer to JQ, there all matches won and you don’t even need to be online.

I’m more inclined to go with WarMourner, WvW is about pitting my build, which I built with my time and grind and fine-tuned, against others and see who came out on top.

That’s the kind of feeling that I can’t get in sPvP, bags and loot is a very nice incentive as well.

Except a majority of the time the guys you are coming out on top of are not the same level nor are they near your level of gear. So you are crushing undergeared people under your foot. Not that I consider that a bad thing just pointing out that in tournament play it comes down to teamwork and how well your build works with your team.

Have had no problems roaming, 1v1, 1v2 and sometimes 1v3 depending on classes. Can solo all camps, and roam with the zerg when needed, usually first one into the other zerg pushing and adding pressure to allow our people to move forward.
All in all the only complaint I’ve had for Necro for my play style and build, why don’t the wvw bags automatically go into my inventory

PvP provides the challenge of taking on another coordinated group of equal number. WvW provides the challenge of taking on a much larger, uncoordinated group. Both have their merits.

Bas.7406:

Kiriakulos.1690:

@PinCushion

Anyone who cares about winning matches should just transfer to JQ, there all matches won and you don’t even need to be online.

I’m more inclined to go with WarMourner, WvW is about pitting my build, which I built with my time and grind and fine-tuned, against others and see who came out on top.

That’s the kind of feeling that I can’t get in sPvP, bags and loot is a very nice incentive as well.

Except a majority of the time the guys you are coming out on top of are not the same level nor are they near your level of gear. So you are crushing undergeared people under your foot. Not that I consider that a bad thing just pointing out that in tournament play it comes down to teamwork and how well your build works with your team.

My issue with tPvP is that it’s too constricting. The stat distribution isn’t flexible enough for my liking and some of the stuff I want isn’t available, like MK runes.
The layout of the levels and lack of different game modes is another turn-off, if there was a DeathMatch mode where we could do customization as deep as we can in WvW I’d probably play that mode half the time.
Only way I like tPvP is when I’m in a full pre-made in mumble.

Besides, crushing lower-level people who underestimate me for my profession is always fun. I may not have the mechanics backing me but I can still outplay overconfident people.

Very interesting, especially cause i have completely the opposite opinion. Was interesting to listen so thank you.
The thing i disagree probobly the most is your view on 1v1 build and 1v1 overall.
Necromancer 1v1 build is not like thief one trick pony build where you just try to kill enemy in one combo. Necro 1v1 build is balanced around damage/survibility/mobility and ability to escape. And 1v1 is not that rare, pure 1v1 encounter is but you meet it in other scenarios too like 1vX, picking off people from zerg, fighting 2v2, 3v3 etc. fighting 1+guards vs X.
And in the end what are alternatives to good 1v1 build? A build that excels in one thing like damage or survibility?

I see myself in Nemesis’ Video a lot. Eventho i didn’t watch all of it, i concur with most of his findings.

Since start of the game i’m roaming WvW solo or in a small 2-3 man team in a Condition Build similar to the one of Lopez’ (excellent guide btw). I would recommend that you don’t even bother with the borderlands, as i see them as playground for the guilds / zergs with a lot of wasted space between the objectives. As solo / small scale PvP player i would recommend the Eternal Battlegrounds, since only there you may find worthwhile action.

Once you learn how to read the map and act with a little foresight, you rarely get rolled over by zergs. Sadly tho, rightnow the zergs are getting out of hand since the fail WvW patch, so your WvW gameplay experience may vary at the moment.

In my opinion, you can be extremely useful while playing on the outskirts of your servers third, flipping npcs and nearby enemy camps. I try to be useful as defensive backup on the frontline opposite of where our zerg is which equals in active scouting at the same time.

My playstyle involves a lot of smallscale PvP and you are actually useful for your server at the same time. It can be both a challenging and rewarding gaming experience as Condition Necro aside of brainless zerging in WvW. Just be aware that most of the 1v1 encounters are against a) trolling thieves b) immortal elementalists and c) lots of 1v1 specced mesmers – you can’t win em all. Good luck!

You can still roam well enough as a Necromancer, you just have to be more careful about it. Know where to run to when kitten hits the fan and take what skills you can to let you survive the retreat. You can kill just about anything but unlike a Thief or an Elementalist you can’t just turn around and break combat when things go south.

We also talk about 1v1 and group builds like they’re mutually exclusive. Unless you’re running a powermancer with dagger or axe, I don’t see that being the case. All it takes is a couple utility and trait swaps to be an effective zergling.

Hi Nemisis. First wanted to say that I’ve tried a few of your builds, sometimes with variants and love them all. However, After this last wvw patch, none of those are quite viable atm (except the fear build for the most part) as now when running with a group, that group is usually a zerg. Bleeds get drowned by a lot of other folks, and there isnt enough fears we do nor are they long enough even when traited.

Right now, I run with Sheobix’s JuggerMancer Build (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Juggermancer-Final-Blog-Link/page/6#post1480305) and seem to be doing great with it while running in groups/zergs. I have changed a couple of things around for a little more support, such as using 3 wells when charging into the fray.

Until the wXp wave dies down a bit, I dont see many build working too well except a support build while having some damage capability to add with your allies. Last night myself in a 12 man guild group help of several towers and keeps against zerglings. I stood at the front lines throwing down staff 2 (all the little healing does help some) and throwing everything else down that I could. As a juggermancer along with the support of fellow allies I never went down. Nor did they. We held good and hard. Think I’ll try your 6xFear build again and run with it awhile again, see how it does in those types of situations.

My reason why I’m posting this is to just also put in my two cents on the current state of WvW and necros and what we can do. Your Thoughts on this?

Aso, until this wave dies down a bit, I am really looking forward for your healing support build. Although Being a JuggerMancer keeps me alive 2-3 times longer while doing sustained damage, I would like to be able to keep up the rest of my allies laying down support. Can’t wait!