Guild Wars 2

Hello,

So, we got an annoucement for Stronghold Open Beta running next Tuesday: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/the-stronghold-pvp-public-beta-is-coming/ .

I thought that now, because we’re after most recent balance patch and we already got a lot of recorded footage of how the gamemode looks like, we’re ready for some basic theorycrafting.

Now, of course things will not stay the same once HoT hits (hopefully!), but besides scouting the new map we could already test some basic thoughts and check what role Necromancer may be best at, what works and what doesn’t.

I’m leaving a link to the “Stronghold Overview” by BLU: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzzKbrj4EZ8

Let’s start, shall we?

First thought – Necromancer defending the base. The main point about defense is killing the Bombers and the Archers – NPCs. We do really shine at taking care of multiple NPCs at the same time thanks to both Wells and Epidemic. Side role could be operating the Trebuchet, because it’s quite close to the gate:
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/File:Champion%27s_Dusk_map.png

We could probably deal with the NPCs really easily if they are dumb and/or have low HP. SWall could turn out to be a good way to deal with NPC groups, fear chains will probably be an easy solution to heroes, but otherwise I’m not sure I see a lot of niche for Necromancer. Our supporting is really bad and we make for awful roamers, both of which seem to be really important.

Bhawb.7408:

We could probably deal with the NPCs really easily if they are dumb and/or have low HP. SWall could turn out to be a good way to deal with NPC groups, fear chains will probably be an easy solution to heroes, but otherwise I’m not sure I see a lot of niche for Necromancer. Our supporting is really bad and we make for awful roamers, both of which seem to be really important.

This is exactly what i am coming to the conclusion of. Though of course I will try all my different necro builds during the open beta, I see minimal use for Necro. The main problem being there are builds that could be more helpful then a Necro build.

My thoughts so far:

Good -
Npcs will help to generate life force, can be easy to control, blind, and epidemic off of. Could see benefit in well of power, plague signet, signet of undeath. No more control points, fights take place everywhere.

Bad -
Map is long and getting around could be hard. We are weak in PVE and this has PvE elements. Vulnerable during channels.

Discussing builds seems pointless because this won’t come out without specializations, but it’s possible that our condi support could actually be useful here. Same could be said of our boon corrupts, but less so I think.

Wurm looks like a 100% must, need to learn good spots to port through walls where only targeted ports can follow you.

Grouch recommended:
Bunker guard, shoutbot warri, staff ele, engie with bombs, regular mobilty and stealth for thief/mesmer and for necro conditions with epidemic

Corropt boon works great against any of those.
Maybe the new stabilty semi stunbreak trait + corruption recharge instead of PoC, since better more ranged damage than porting into danger
Traveler rune since no s.walk and seems better in long run

Maybe….maybe even the new spite GM for healing if theres many mobs.

For power ofc wells, maybe something closer to the wvw zerg builds, maybe soldier amulet- lets u kill mobs with the DS spike and is tanky enough that no thief will waste time ganking u or at least ull get to safety.

Grouch also said 2-1-2 splits seem good
This is actualy our buggest advantage as we shouldnt get 4-5 man cleaved like when u get caught in a big teamfight. Roamers constaly +1 will be even worse however

Minions seem bad
Any healing or support is also as bad as its now
pure spectral roamers maybe not bad, but not as good as thief roamer

Condition Epidemic certainly looks like one of the best options for defense. Considering people are likely to escort with support builds (like bunker guardian), we could be strong defense against both the player and minions.

Right now, I’m looking at first minute rush tactics with my guildies:

Shoutbow, Epidemic Necro, D/P Thief, Celementalist, Guardian Support/Mesmer Condition Shatter.

Kind of a rush strategy with that. We’ll see how many bombers we can spawn at the same time.

We think that the best placement for Condimancer would be either near the Trebuchet or near enemy’s entrance to supply. Treb shots for aiding teamfights or shorter travel time for Thief (since it’s rush) for help, longer time frame to annihilate minions, supply denial/info, possibly one of the heroes.

Ok so I played 8 games today so far, I went 5-3. Some thoughts…

- Playing condi felt so weak. I think because… it is. It took forever to kill mobs. I mean I know condi necro isn’t great in PVE, and we have even less bleeds in PvP. Plus porting around felt more difficult, but that may have just been because I was noobish.

- Loved playing power. Life force is everywhere – mobs AND doors. Plus it’s better to actually kill the NPCs. I felt pretty dominant, but I was there with a build I intended for stronghold, and most seemed to be playing conquest builds still.

- Fights seemed overall smaller to me, which is good for necros in general.

- Supporting the lord was a lot harder in person. I don’t think most of our current support is going to cut it there.

- Ranged classes seemed like less of an issue than I expected, plenty of LOS around. Thieves seemed like more of a problem than I expected. Mesmer portal plays will probably be big here.

- Now I’m super hyped for greatsword and power necro. Before I was sad because I’ve been playing condi and enjoying it, and I thought condi necro may end up as a thing of the past if it isn’t re-balanced, but now I’m super pumped. Also I’m hoping that we get some unique group support.

Also been playing stronghold as power necro, and I’m absolutely loving it. Life force is everywhere, so it’s not nearly as much of a problem as it is in conquest.

As far as stronghold goes ive been doing rather well on a 20606 MMancer/DS build

The shear amount of debilitations you can pump out goes a long way to slowing down the enemies rampage through your npcs. And there also really good for slowing down hostile mobs.

So far it seems like necros are in a way better spot on this map than in conquest.
The only time I got that “focus the necro” feeling is during fights over supply in the middle, and even then there’s a ton of ways to avoid line of sight or we can just go through a gate portal to completely reset if we’re defending. Besides, dying isn’t as big of a deal on this map anyway.

We’re definitely doing better as defender than on the attack lane. Not just because we can’t really buff our npcs or because of our aoe damage, but what really shines is perma chilled and cripple. It takes the enemy skritt forever to even get to the end should they stay alive at all. And this is pretty much a passive effect for us, we can slow npcs down while fighting opponents because all of our chill and cripple skills are aoe, and the extra life force actually makes us more durable.

It’s probably too early to tell, but I could imagine necros actually being in high demand for this game mode for once.

flow.6043:

So far it seems like necros are in a way better spot on this map than in conquest.
The only time I got that “focus the necro” feeling is during fights over supply in the middle, and even then there’s a ton of ways to avoid line of sight or we can just go through a gate portal to completely reset if we’re defending. Besides, dying isn’t as big of a deal on this map anyway.

We’re definitely doing better as defender than on the attack lane. Not just because we can’t really buff our npcs or because of our aoe damage, but what really shines is perma chilled and cripple. It takes the enemy skritt forever to even get to the end should they stay alive at all. And this is pretty much a passive effect for us, we can slow npcs down while fighting opponents because all of our chill and cripple skills are aoe, and the extra life force actually makes us more durable.

It’s probably too early to tell, but I could imagine necros actually being in high demand for this game mode for once.

If you read some of the threads in the pvp section, a lot of people are mentioning power necro.

I’m not so sure that we work as well in defense though. Maybe it’s my own build, but defending with a zerker spec doesn’t seem to work as well against anyone with any organization – although it is pretty easy killing npcs while fighting other players. I feel like more conquest oriented specs would do well defending – enough aoe to kill npcs and plenty of survivability. Realistically yo don’t need to kill the players, you need to kill the npcs, survive, and push them off. Then again, maybe I approached it wrong.

I think if necros are going to have a role, from what I can tell right now, it may be more as a midfielder, like in soccer. We have tons of ways to interrupt or disrupt hero channels, even if some guardian pops tons of cooldowns like I saw on streams last night. We have enough swiftness to assist in defense or offense, and this is where the fights should stay smaller scale and work to our advantage.

There are a lot of roles and strategies, though. There may not be one answer. Conquest is much simpler.

Unyielding Blast should work well to clear attacking NPC’s. I was using Piercing Arrows on my ranger last night and it was quite nice having that easily lined up shot.

Had a complete blast on this map as well… Necro felt perfect. It was basically like WvW but small scale – kiting and fighting as opposed to juggling balls around a point until death. Tbh I didn’t know I’d like the new mode THIS much and I wish I recorded!!!

I’ve seen a loooottttt of power Necros around… surprisingly not that many turret engis, lots of zerker GS/hammer warriors, some caltrop condi thieves, and a lot of other pretty wacky stuff (duo D/F elementalists). I played a condi Necro and it felt beastly (Plague on top of enemy Liches and Rampage warriors). I played defense (killing their minions and accompanying players) as well as collecting supply when I had the chance. It worked in offense as well, and Wurm + Spectral Walk brought tears to my eyes. I dunno, I think they hit the spot with this map… so far. With the ability to kite and fight, I think Necro suddenly becomes really strong (condi Necro), similar to WvW.

Not really feeling it on condition necro power sure it’s similar to PvE where zerkers dominate. I know it’s still beta but it does reward the offensive lane only as well as the GW2 style PvE trinity. Necro has bit advantage there only due to the LF from NPC maybe if they add 8v8, make the AI more resilient to focus dps/cc etc. We’ll see how it turns out but so far it’s go zerker this mode personally shows me how they see mobs for the future (HoT) it’s not good.

It’s fun but there is room for improvement.

I’ve seen a lot of power necros too. But I honestly think condi is better for taking care of npcs on this map. They don’t cleanse or heal themselves so for the most part their only protection is other players peeling for them. Which means that with a condi build you’re less reliant on daggering them down up close like you would in PvE. And you’re not really pressed for speed killing them either unless they are attacking a gate.

Felt power with wells nukes guards on offense and condi is safer on defense.

Mobility and having a real roamer on ur tail is still complete shutdown (thief, mesmer, burst ele, longbow ranger..)

If objectives stay stronger than getting kills (similiar to how old bunker meta it was holding nodes and decaps over kills) , then we have niches.
If it becomes similiar to wvw roaming it feels pretty bad with no sustain, why do necros have to have a target to heal on dagger while ele just sprays himself with healing powder behind a wall -.-

Condition Epidemic works. There’s significant, visible lack of our bleeds. We really have to get our couple bleeds back.

That’s said, at first I wasn’t convinced. Regular build for conquest didn’t work as good, NPCs do have quite a bit of health and it was useless against heroes cuz of buff.

But I switched to Rabid with Afflicted rune and more condition duration. That worked way better. Most of escorts seem to be dpses, because on 2nd day everyone thought they found their 5 bomber full zerk meta. So no cleanses. So live for 10 seconds, epidemic off and you can die in peace, because everything dies anyway and zerkers are sad.

Myself I was mostly playing shoutbow and spotted condi necros two times overall defending against my escort. To be honest, they could just back off or call for help, because they were useless against shoutbow escort. But yea, not many shoutbows seen overall. Mostly some weird WvW/Rampage mixture warriors.