Tonight I was killed by the same thief 3 times. His plan is simple. Steal from me to get the skill Skull Fear. And then he would wait until the time is right, before stealthing and using Skull Fear and then Heartseeker 3 times. I would be dead before the 3 seconds fear ends. During this time I can’t do anything. His Heatseeker have no problem chasing my fear-running self down.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Skull_Fear
BTW this thief was patient enough to wait till I use my DS3 (I got to use that eventually to interrupt his attacks), so that’s out of the question. Once my DS3 is gone, it was sure death for me.
And nope I cannot predict and evade Skull Fear, b/c that thief is stealth 24/7. It doesn’t matter that it only effects nearby foes. I have NO IDEA where the thief is. Yes I do cast marks so yes I do know when he is near. But just b/c he is near it doesn’t mean he would use Skull Fear. He only use it at the perfect moment.
Why does the best class (thief) vs the worst class (necro) also happens to gain the best stolen skill (Skull Fear) in the game from that worst class?
And why does thief’s fear last longer than a necros? I know it is a stolen skill but everytime a thief faces a necro he gets Skull Fear. That’s why that thief makes a point to kill me again and again. It was so easy for him. 3 seconds is a VERY LONG time to lose control of your whole character.
I would really like Anet to explain how do you counter this on a CONSISTENT basis. Like, when “luck” aren’t on your side. Honestly it is so easy for a thief to kill a necro right now it aren’t funny. The only way I could have saved myself was DS3, assuming his culling perma-stealth ends before I die. But when your DS3 is on recharge, or your DS is on recharge, or you are out of LF it is over for you.
(edited by CHIPS.6018)
There is this wonderful thing called ‘stun break’, I would suggest using it if you’re having that much of an issue.
There is this wonderful thing called ‘stun break’, I would suggest using it if you’re having that much of an issue.
Necro just happen to also have the worst stun break in the game. Have you seen their skill recharge? None is faster than a thief’s 45 sec of stealing.
And even if they are better, why should a necro be forced to take a stun break skill to counter something that the thief can just pick up from stealing? And if the necro don’t bring a stun break they are dead 100% in this situation? In WvW you are not just fighting against thieves. You are trying to help your server win. Any utility skill that a necro is forced to take would further lower its already pathetic damage.
(edited by CHIPS.6018)
hm, spectral walk is rather useful, and has a CD of 48 seconds when traited.
The Wurm however, is 40s CD, untraited, which is faster. Not that killing a dagger thief should take more then 10 seconds.
Also calling them useless when they’re exactly what you’re asking for in the thread is pretty dumb.
hm, spectral walk is rather useful, and has a CD of 48 seconds when traited.
The Wurm however, is 40s CD, untraited, which is faster. Not that killing a dagger thief should take more then 10 seconds.Also calling them useless when they’re exactly what you’re asking for in the thread is pretty dumb.
Once again you are ignoring what’s important. When you take a stun break skill, it takes away your effectiveness of WvW. None of the stun break skills helps your team or zerg. None whatsoever. Spectral Walk and Armor only buff yourself. Wurm and Plague Signet in wvw, seriously?? That’s why they are useless in wvw.
All you gain is a slight improvement to your personal survival. If all you care about is yourself, then you might as well play a thief also. They are already the best roamer in the game.
(edited by CHIPS.6018)
What I find truly hilarious is that the fear induced by Skull Fear is longer than any single fear that a necromancer can induce. GO FIGURE.
If you’re dead, you’re not helping your team. If you can’t keep up with the group, that’s reducing the effectiveness of the team. And are you saying that you’re in a group fight, and this thief is repeatedly picking you out and killing you, and your team isn’t helping you?
If he got you Doom down through his opening there is only mark stacking on top of you and biding your time till doom is up again.
I would suggest trying to dodge/blind the skullfear but this seems out of the question since he couples it with stealth.
If you meet a good thief who uses his cooldowns it is not such a cakewalk vs thieves like some peeps on this subforum make it seem.
Depending on your build you got some to zero chance vs thief with cds up (carrion/condi/well is pretty much dead).
Edit: oh its wvw? then just take spectral walk for this occasion
(edited by Bellamy.9860)
If you’re dead, you’re not helping your team. If you can’t keep up with the group, that’s reducing the effectiveness of the team. And are you saying that you’re in a group fight, and this thief is repeatedly picking you out and killing you, and your team isn’t helping you?
Thieves has always picked off weak targets in zerg vs zerg fights. Thieves can stay stealthed for so long that no one is safe anywhere. My team? Well in zerg vs zerg, the thief got friends too. The point is, the thief steal from me to get Skull Fear. Then he wait for the perfect moment (e.g. I was already weakened by both him and his allies), before Skull Fear and 3X Heartseeker. One of the 3 times I died before his culling even ended.
And btw once the thief got Skull Fear, he can use it against any other of my teammates. 3 second of Fear is deadly against anyone. So in a way playing as a necromancer is liability to your team because you are giving all enemies thieves Skull Fear. 5 thieves can all steal from me and all gain Skull Fear. In that sense, maybe it is better for me to die quicker so they can’t steal from me. :P
(edited by CHIPS.6018)
It doesn’t change the fact that you are getting CC’d, then killed. You’re asking for a solution to this, and I’m offering one, which you’re rejecting because it’s ‘bad’.
If there is a solution to your problem, use it until you find a better one.
CHIPS is right. Necromancer has no reliable way to break from CC efects. Necro do not have any reliable stability other than Elites skills and Foot in the grave trait (3s stability). Having Spectral Walk/armor in www is stupid. Walk is good only for jumping or well bombing and armor is very situational. Bugged plague signet is a joke.
Problem with necro being the easiest target (not only for thieves) is the fact that he has no invincible/block skill. Necro has higest health pool + DS, but that is all! Nothing more. Necro doesnt have many boons too. If enemy team want to spike/burst necro, he will die. That is why invincibility skills are in game to give players time to retreat or survive burst damage.
There is no coincidence that the necromancer is one of the highest priority target in Spvp.
(edited by DriV.6203)
DriV, while i would agree wholheartedly on your comment the situation CHIPS describes is just pretty strange. If it was a 1v1 encounter he could have probably prepared for the next time and bring a stunbreak, if it seriously happened in a zerg he should’ve pretty much ignored the thief and let his zergmates rezz him.
Take a look at “Reaper’s Protection”. This trait in the Death magic line gives you a 2 sec AoE fear when CC’d. The thief would then be feared away from you, giving you enough time to react.
Also take a look at Spectral Walk, as it is a great WvW skill, giving you not only a stunbreaker, but also a swiftness buff. Swiftness is 33%, 8% more than our locust signet, increasing the chance to get away or catching a fleeing enemy.
If you take Shrouded Removal, a 10-point trait in Death Magic, you can cleanse the fear off just by entering DS without using a stun break.
OP’s story is fishy, partly because there is no way the thief could have killed him with just 1 steal and 3 HS. They must have been fighting for some time beforehand, in which case the Skull Fear + 3 HS is likely not the problem. The thief smartly saved the Skull Fear for when OP was low instead of blowing it right away (like most thieves do). Apparently he also waited until OP used all his Life Force because OP could have entered DS while feared to absorb the damage. So apparently OP, even after encountering this several times, didn’t save his life force for the Skull Fear.
I don’t know. Skull Fear is a strong skill, but if you don’t slot a stun break or at least take Reaper’s Protection in w3 you don’t have the right to complain about getting CC’d imo.
BTW this thief was patient enough to wait till I use my DS3 (I got to use that eventually to interrupt his attacks), so that’s out of the question. Once my DS3 is gone, it was sure death for me.
This would be the key part of the fight. You use your best escape and will not take a second one.
Its pretty hard to come up with a build that couldn’t offload chill, cripple, or another fear on the thief.
You are simply being outplayed.
The only build i found too easy to kill a thief was healing power-well build.even if the do all there stealths i could out heal them.only backstab hited hard but have many ways to evade it.
As stated before, Reaper’s protection and Shrouded removal helps a lot against this.
15 points in Soul Reaping for the free protection at 50% helps reduce the burst.
While I agree that thieves are a pain for us necro (mostly due to culling though, not for the fact that they’re unkillable) and that’s it silly for them to have a stronger fear than us, you can help your team better by choosing Wurm, Spectral walk or Shrouded removal and make the thief fight you a little longer or waste his cooldowns on you.
Who knows, those 3-4 seconds you’re gaining may means his death instead of yours. And a precast wurm can confuse the thief, you still teleport in it’s direction even if it’s way out of range.
And if you’re lucky and you’re an asura necro, Pain Inverter is a beast against those spamming thieves. Just watch them melt around you without even targeting him.
Good luck in your travels!
Reaper’s Protection in particular is hilarious if you have terror. What he thinks is going to be his big burst moment instead gets him hurt heavily (1200/second for 3 seconds is not difficult to achieve) and resets the range advantage that you want.
Spectral walk and plague his burst attempts. You got death shroud, 2x dodge, and plague to foil his burst. Then turn around with a mainhand dagger, lay down well and immobilize and blow him up. Nothing kills a thief better than immobilize.
Good pistol thieves with offdagger or dual pistol are a different story, though, because they can outdamage your staff and outheal your damage while you can´t outheal theirs.
(edited by Zenith.7301)
Reaper’s Protection in particular is hilarious if you have terror. What he thinks is going to be his big burst moment instead gets him hurt heavily (1200/second for 3 seconds is not difficult to achieve) and resets the range advantage that you want.
What’s funny is that I actually saw a thread in the thief forums once that was trying to report a bug on how the thief got feared himself when he used skull fear! I’m not making fun of that cause I might have made the same mistake if I was a thief and didn’t know about reaper’s protection, but it shows how frustrating this can be to a thief.
(edited by Burjis.3087)
sounds like this nec needs to rethink how he specs his load out. 3 hs and ur dead? you deserve the griefing from a lowly thief. whats your armor? whats your tough? hp? seriously, pony up more info as to why a thief was able to just pwn you so easily, especially in wvw.
What I find truly hilarious is that the fear induced by Skull Fear is longer than any single fear that a necromancer can induce. GO FIGURE.
Yeah the stolen skill is two times longer than the original. That alone shows the ridiculousness of this whole steal mechanic. I play a power necro with lot´s of toughness / vit. and i don´t fight thiefes any more, i just bore them away. When they can´t kill me quick most of them just run away and the few that don´t, well a guildmate is never far from me and we make them regret that decision.
Sorry for the off topic but: “the worst class (necro)”
I usually read three forums (Engi, ranger and this one) and in every one people say the same about their proffesion, it’s funny.
Well, the fight started with steal, and it was a D/D thief most likely (just guessing). Depending on build, Steal/Cnd/Backstab puts you pretty kitten low, and forces you into DS. You then fear him of you, drop out of DS to heal (he uses blinding powder to break your fear), your heal may or may not go off before he lands the stolen skull fear, and then he can do whatever he wants for 3 seconds if you don’t have your stun break skill up (assuming you have one).
Its a pretty lobsided matchup, and I have mentioned it before. Think about how warriors feel fighting necros. Unless they are full ranged glass and you eat a kill shot, you just about can’t lose to a warrior.
That being said, skull fear can go up to 5 seconds if its a condition based thief with duration increase. That’s a long fear.
And honestly everyone ripping on the guy needs to cool it. Zerker thieves are incredibly powerful in WvW, where the stats are inflated, and when you run into one, it isn’t always in a duel setting where you are built/traited/skilled to handle it, and see him coming. Their damage combo I listed above can easily hit for 13-15k (steal/CnD/BS) on someone in full rabid gear, in less than 2 seconds. Lets say they house over to you from behind a rock….. I would love to see you react to that in time.
Bottom line is that in WvW, in the open field of battle, your going to have to accept this isn’t a fight you generally win unless you see it coming. The original post about fear into 3XHS is comical though…. thats just about the worst use of initiative for damage unless you were sitting below 50% health already. Its the CnD/BS combos that are much MUCH more worthy of griping about.
I run into this a lot in spvp. Any decent thief knows that when facing a necro that they can steal this long duration fear. So they can engage the necro and hold on to it until they’re in a good spot to burst. Or even just another get out of jail free card.
You can bring stun breakers or trait in a way to counter this fear—in order to counter an ability that ANY thief can accomplish straight out of the box. This doesn’t include any other CC the thief might have at their disposal. Consider also that this is part of steal, which can be traited to do damage, provide stealth, grant init, etc.
I agree with the OP. Given the prevalence of thieves in pvp, necroes face an inherent deficiency based on the thief class dynamic.
Once thiefs register coming out of stealth properly (fixing the culling issue) it shouldn’t be as much of a problem as the thief would pop out of stealth as soon as they started channeling the fear.
Once thiefs register coming out of stealth properly (fixing the culling issue) it shouldn’t be as much of a problem as the thief would pop out of stealth as soon as they started channeling the fear.
Based on how cast time skills work on my mesmer in stealth, I do not believe the act of starting the cast breaks stealth, but rather right as the cast ends. I know for a fact in locations where culling was not a problem, that I have been feared by an invisible thief.
Once thiefs register coming out of stealth properly (fixing the culling issue) it shouldn’t be as much of a problem as the thief would pop out of stealth as soon as they started channeling the fear.
Based on how cast time skills work on my mesmer in stealth, I do not believe the act of starting the cast breaks stealth, but rather right as the cast ends. I know for a fact in locations where culling was not a problem, that I have been feared by an invisible thief.
that’s what I’m saying though. the game simply doesn’t register thiefs coming out of stealth quickly enough on the [person who is fighting the thief]’s end.
Oh no I agree…. in zerggy areas seeing the thief earlier helps… but I was just pointing out casting doesn’t break stealth.
What I find truly hilarious is that the fear induced by Skull Fear is longer than any single fear that a necromancer can induce. GO FIGURE.
It’s like when someone steals your kittenty car and puts 22" blingalicious rims on it!!
If you take Shrouded Removal, a 10-point trait in Death Magic, you can cleanse the fear off just by entering DS without using a stun break.
OP’s story is fishy, partly because there is no way the thief could have killed him with just 1 steal and 3 HS. They must have been fighting for some time beforehand, in which case the Skull Fear + 3 HS is likely not the problem. The thief smartly saved the Skull Fear for when OP was low instead of blowing it right away (like most thieves do). Apparently he also waited until OP used all his Life Force because OP could have entered DS while feared to absorb the damage. So apparently OP, even after encountering this several times, didn’t save his life force for the Skull Fear.
I don’t know. Skull Fear is a strong skill, but if you don’t slot a stun break or at least take Reaper’s Protection in w3 you don’t have the right to complain about getting CC’d imo.
It was in the middle of a fight and I was already weakened. On top of my lowered hp, my skills (DS or DS3) were in cooldown. And that’s when the thief use this combo. I am dead due to Skull Fear. I get feared for 3 seconds, cannot control my character, a bunch of damage pops up, and I am dead.
I few people suggested that I save my DS and DS3. Well it aren’t that simple in zerg vs zerg. What you are asking is for me to not use DS until the thief shows up. In zerg fights I pop into DS to soak up damage all the time, not just from that thief. Often I had no choice but to turn on DS because I cannot Ride the Lightning my way out.
And my main point is just how easy it is to use Skull Fear + 3x Heartseeker (or whatever). This combo is a sure get (e.g. not by chance) for any thief that steals from a necro. And look at how much effort it takes for a necromancer to counter it. It is ironic that if I did save my DS/DS3 for his Skull Fear, he could have just chosen not use Skull Fear at all in the fight. So the thief, by having Skull Fear in his hands, disabled my DS b/c I was too scared to use DS. And do you know that DS is bugged (treated as 0-25% hp) so Heartseeker always deals extra damage against DS?
And BTW Skull Fear doesn’t just work on me. It is an AoE skill that works on all my allies. So me being a necromancer is in a way a LIABILITY to my team. I just gave thieves a skill that can fear all my nearby allies for 3 seconds. And in a zerg vs zerg this can be very fatal for my whole team.
(edited by CHIPS.6018)
If you take Shrouded Removal, a 10-point trait in Death Magic, you can cleanse the fear off just by entering DS without using a stun break.
OP’s story is fishy, partly because there is no way the thief could have killed him with just 1 steal and 3 HS. They must have been fighting for some time beforehand, in which case the Skull Fear + 3 HS is likely not the problem. The thief smartly saved the Skull Fear for when OP was low instead of blowing it right away (like most thieves do). Apparently he also waited until OP used all his Life Force because OP could have entered DS while feared to absorb the damage. So apparently OP, even after encountering this several times, didn’t save his life force for the Skull Fear.
I don’t know. Skull Fear is a strong skill, but if you don’t slot a stun break or at least take Reaper’s Protection in w3 you don’t have the right to complain about getting CC’d imo.
It was in the middle of a fight and I was already weakened. On top of my lowered hp, my skills (DS or DS3) were in cooldown. And that’s when the thief use this combo. I am dead due to Skull Fear. I get feared for 3 seconds, cannot control my character, a bunch of damage pops up, and I am dead.
I few people suggested that I save my DS and DS3. Well it aren’t that simple in zerg vs zerg. What you are asking is for me to not use DS until the thief shows up. In zerg fights I pop into DS to soak up damage all the time, not just from that thief. Often I had no choice but to turn on DS because I cannot Ride the Lightning my way out.
So you were in a zerg v. zerg fight when this happened? That’s kind of crucial information to leave out. Your OP made it sound like the thief killed you by himself with a faceroll combo and you were upset at potential imbalance. Now the story is that the thief is picking targets out of a zerg. So what? I like to sit around in zerg vs. zerg fights, identify low stragglers, pull them in and burst them too. It’s not exclusive to thieves (though thieves can do it very well), a warrior could have hundred blades’d you, an Ele could have done the Updraft into fire combo, an Engineer could have knocked you back or immobilized before taking you down…. It sounds more like you just got frustrated with this one thief in particular because you kept running into him and then made this thread for therapeutic reasons.
(edited by lettucemode.3789)
And do you know that DS is bugged (treated as 0-25% hp) so Heartseeker always deals extra damage against DS?
This is so far out of date it isn’t even funny. All bugs related to HP percentage and DS were fixed months ago. Thanks for spreading misinformation.
And BTW Skull Fear doesn’t just work on me. It is an AoE skill that works on all my allies. So me being a necromancer is in a way a LIABILITY to my team. I just gave thieves a skill that can fear all my nearby allies for 3 seconds.
Yea, and rangers give their enemies AoE regeneration, right? Put that way, all classes are detrimental to their team when fighting a thief.
If you take Shrouded Removal, a 10-point trait in Death Magic, you can cleanse the fear off just by entering DS without using a stun break.
OP’s story is fishy, partly because there is no way the thief could have killed him with just 1 steal and 3 HS. They must have been fighting for some time beforehand, in which case the Skull Fear + 3 HS is likely not the problem. The thief smartly saved the Skull Fear for when OP was low instead of blowing it right away (like most thieves do). Apparently he also waited until OP used all his Life Force because OP could have entered DS while feared to absorb the damage. So apparently OP, even after encountering this several times, didn’t save his life force for the Skull Fear.
I don’t know. Skull Fear is a strong skill, but if you don’t slot a stun break or at least take Reaper’s Protection in w3 you don’t have the right to complain about getting CC’d imo.
It was in the middle of a fight and I was already weakened. On top of my lowered hp, my skills (DS or DS3) were in cooldown. And that’s when the thief use this combo. I am dead due to Skull Fear. I get feared for 3 seconds, cannot control my character, a bunch of damage pops up, and I am dead.
I few people suggested that I save my DS and DS3. Well it aren’t that simple in zerg vs zerg. What you are asking is for me to not use DS until the thief shows up. In zerg fights I pop into DS to soak up damage all the time, not just from that thief. Often I had no choice but to turn on DS because I cannot Ride the Lightning my way out.
So you were in a zerg v. zerg fight when this happened? That’s kind of crucial information to leave out. Your OP made it sound like the thief killed you by himself with a faceroll combo and you were upset at potential imbalance. Now the story is that the thief is picking targets out of a zerg. So what? I like to sit around in zerg vs. zerg fights, identify low stragglers, pull them in and burst them too. It’s not exclusive to thieves (though thieves can do it very well), a warrior could have hundred blades’d you, an Ele could have done the Updraft into fire combo, an Engineer could have knocked you back or immobilized before taking you down…. It sounds more like you just got frustrated with this one thief in particular because you kept running into him and then made this thread for therapeutic reasons.
I can see warriors, eles and engineers and anyone else coming. I can plan ahead. I am actually pretty good at watching the battlefield. But thieves there is nothing I can do. They stealth+culling. They hit super hard. And now they can fear me (and all my nearby allies) for 3 seconds, disabling me completely.
If you take Shrouded Removal, a 10-point trait in Death Magic, you can cleanse the fear off just by entering DS without using a stun break.
OP’s story is fishy, partly because there is no way the thief could have killed him with just 1 steal and 3 HS. They must have been fighting for some time beforehand, in which case the Skull Fear + 3 HS is likely not the problem. The thief smartly saved the Skull Fear for when OP was low instead of blowing it right away (like most thieves do). Apparently he also waited until OP used all his Life Force because OP could have entered DS while feared to absorb the damage. So apparently OP, even after encountering this several times, didn’t save his life force for the Skull Fear.
I don’t know. Skull Fear is a strong skill, but if you don’t slot a stun break or at least take Reaper’s Protection in w3 you don’t have the right to complain about getting CC’d imo.
It was in the middle of a fight and I was already weakened. On top of my lowered hp, my skills (DS or DS3) were in cooldown. And that’s when the thief use this combo. I am dead due to Skull Fear. I get feared for 3 seconds, cannot control my character, a bunch of damage pops up, and I am dead.
I few people suggested that I save my DS and DS3. Well it aren’t that simple in zerg vs zerg. What you are asking is for me to not use DS until the thief shows up. In zerg fights I pop into DS to soak up damage all the time, not just from that thief. Often I had no choice but to turn on DS because I cannot Ride the Lightning my way out.
So you were in a zerg v. zerg fight when this happened? That’s kind of crucial information to leave out. Your OP made it sound like the thief killed you by himself with a faceroll combo and you were upset at potential imbalance. Now the story is that the thief is picking targets out of a zerg. So what? I like to sit around in zerg vs. zerg fights, identify low stragglers, pull them in and burst them too. It’s not exclusive to thieves (though thieves can do it very well), a warrior could have hundred blades’d you, an Ele could have done the Updraft into fire combo, an Engineer could have knocked you back or immobilized before taking you down…. It sounds more like you just got frustrated with this one thief in particular because you kept running into him and then made this thread for therapeutic reasons.
I can see warriors, eles and engineers and anyone else coming. I can plan ahead. I am actually pretty good at watching the battlefield. But thieves there is nothing I can do. They stealth+culling. They hit super hard. And now they can fear me (and all my nearby allies) for 3 seconds, disabling me completely.
I thought you were completely out of life force, DS was on cooldown, and you had no fears left. Even if you saw those other classes coming, it wouldn’t have mattered, the same exact thing would have happened. They have disables too, remember?
And do you know that DS is bugged (treated as 0-25% hp) so Heartseeker always deals extra damage against DS?
This is so far out of date it isn’t even funny. All bugs related to HP percentage and DS were fixed months ago. Thanks for spreading misinformation.
And BTW Skull Fear doesn’t just work on me. It is an AoE skill that works on all my allies. So me being a necromancer is in a way a LIABILITY to my team. I just gave thieves a skill that can fear all my nearby allies for 3 seconds.
Yea, and rangers give their enemies AoE regeneration, right? Put that way, all classes are detrimental to their team when fighting a thief.
AoE regeneration for your enemies won’t kill you. It is probably based on the thief’s healing power anyways (e.g. probably not too high). A 3 second fear for all your allies will. And that 3 second fear will happen even if the said thief was level one and not wearing any items.
If you take Shrouded Removal, a 10-point trait in Death Magic, you can cleanse the fear off just by entering DS without using a stun break.
OP’s story is fishy, partly because there is no way the thief could have killed him with just 1 steal and 3 HS. They must have been fighting for some time beforehand, in which case the Skull Fear + 3 HS is likely not the problem. The thief smartly saved the Skull Fear for when OP was low instead of blowing it right away (like most thieves do). Apparently he also waited until OP used all his Life Force because OP could have entered DS while feared to absorb the damage. So apparently OP, even after encountering this several times, didn’t save his life force for the Skull Fear.
I don’t know. Skull Fear is a strong skill, but if you don’t slot a stun break or at least take Reaper’s Protection in w3 you don’t have the right to complain about getting CC’d imo.
It was in the middle of a fight and I was already weakened. On top of my lowered hp, my skills (DS or DS3) were in cooldown. And that’s when the thief use this combo. I am dead due to Skull Fear. I get feared for 3 seconds, cannot control my character, a bunch of damage pops up, and I am dead.
I few people suggested that I save my DS and DS3. Well it aren’t that simple in zerg vs zerg. What you are asking is for me to not use DS until the thief shows up. In zerg fights I pop into DS to soak up damage all the time, not just from that thief. Often I had no choice but to turn on DS because I cannot Ride the Lightning my way out.
So you were in a zerg v. zerg fight when this happened? That’s kind of crucial information to leave out. Your OP made it sound like the thief killed you by himself with a faceroll combo and you were upset at potential imbalance. Now the story is that the thief is picking targets out of a zerg. So what? I like to sit around in zerg vs. zerg fights, identify low stragglers, pull them in and burst them too. It’s not exclusive to thieves (though thieves can do it very well), a warrior could have hundred blades’d you, an Ele could have done the Updraft into fire combo, an Engineer could have knocked you back or immobilized before taking you down…. It sounds more like you just got frustrated with this one thief in particular because you kept running into him and then made this thread for therapeutic reasons.
I can see warriors, eles and engineers and anyone else coming. I can plan ahead. I am actually pretty good at watching the battlefield. But thieves there is nothing I can do. They stealth+culling. They hit super hard. And now they can fear me (and all my nearby allies) for 3 seconds, disabling me completely.
I thought you were completely out of life force, DS was on cooldown, and you had no fears left. Even if you saw those other classes coming, it wouldn’t have mattered, the same exact thing would have happened. They have disables too, remember?
I usually try to save up one dodge for emergencies. Not always available but I try. I usually have no problem dodging away from an ele’s RTL+Updraft, since I can see it coming. When it comes to stealth thieves with Skull Fear, I cannot evade because I have no idea when he will use it. Unless I randomly guess and waste my last evade, of course.
(edited by CHIPS.6018)
And do you know that DS is bugged (treated as 0-25% hp) so Heartseeker always deals extra damage against DS?
This is so far out of date it isn’t even funny. All bugs related to HP percentage and DS were fixed months ago. Thanks for spreading misinformation.
And BTW Skull Fear doesn’t just work on me. It is an AoE skill that works on all my allies. So me being a necromancer is in a way a LIABILITY to my team. I just gave thieves a skill that can fear all my nearby allies for 3 seconds.
Yea, and rangers give their enemies AoE regeneration, right? Put that way, all classes are detrimental to their team when fighting a thief.
AoE regeneration for your enemies won’t kill you. It is probably based on the thief’s healing power anyways (e.g. probably not too high). A 3 second fear for all your allies will. And that 3 second fear will happen even if the said thief was level one and not wearing any items.
Not necessarily. In your case, it only killed you when
1) You were in a prolonged zerg fight
2) You had used up DS, taken lots of damage
3) You had used all your fears
4) You had used all your stunbreaks
Dude, anything will kill you in that situation. Skull Fear is not the problem here. In fact, there is no problem. The thief correctly identified who was prone to burst and out of defenses (in your case, life force and stunbreaks) and seized the opportunity. That sounds like smart play to me. I sympathize with your frustration, but I disagree that anything needs to be done about this.
If you take Shrouded Removal, a 10-point trait in Death Magic, you can cleanse the fear off just by entering DS without using a stun break.
OP’s story is fishy, partly because there is no way the thief could have killed him with just 1 steal and 3 HS. They must have been fighting for some time beforehand, in which case the Skull Fear + 3 HS is likely not the problem. The thief smartly saved the Skull Fear for when OP was low instead of blowing it right away (like most thieves do). Apparently he also waited until OP used all his Life Force because OP could have entered DS while feared to absorb the damage. So apparently OP, even after encountering this several times, didn’t save his life force for the Skull Fear.
I don’t know. Skull Fear is a strong skill, but if you don’t slot a stun break or at least take Reaper’s Protection in w3 you don’t have the right to complain about getting CC’d imo.
It was in the middle of a fight and I was already weakened. On top of my lowered hp, my skills (DS or DS3) were in cooldown. And that’s when the thief use this combo. I am dead due to Skull Fear. I get feared for 3 seconds, cannot control my character, a bunch of damage pops up, and I am dead.
I few people suggested that I save my DS and DS3. Well it aren’t that simple in zerg vs zerg. What you are asking is for me to not use DS until the thief shows up. In zerg fights I pop into DS to soak up damage all the time, not just from that thief. Often I had no choice but to turn on DS because I cannot Ride the Lightning my way out.
So you were in a zerg v. zerg fight when this happened? That’s kind of crucial information to leave out. Your OP made it sound like the thief killed you by himself with a faceroll combo and you were upset at potential imbalance. Now the story is that the thief is picking targets out of a zerg. So what? I like to sit around in zerg vs. zerg fights, identify low stragglers, pull them in and burst them too. It’s not exclusive to thieves (though thieves can do it very well), a warrior could have hundred blades’d you, an Ele could have done the Updraft into fire combo, an Engineer could have knocked you back or immobilized before taking you down…. It sounds more like you just got frustrated with this one thief in particular because you kept running into him and then made this thread for therapeutic reasons.
I can see warriors, eles and engineers and anyone else coming. I can plan ahead. I am actually pretty good at watching the battlefield. But thieves there is nothing I can do. They stealth+culling. They hit super hard. And now they can fear me (and all my nearby allies) for 3 seconds, disabling me completely.
I thought you were completely out of life force, DS was on cooldown, and you had no fears left. Even if you saw those other classes coming, it wouldn’t have mattered, the same exact thing would have happened. They have disables too, remember?
I usually try to save up one dodge for emergencies. Not always available but I try. I usually have no problem dodging away from an ele’s RTL+Updraft, since I can see it coming. When it comes to stealth thieves with Skull Fear, I cannot evade because I have no idea when he will use it. Unless I randomly guess and waste my last evade, of course.
You can make an educated guess. The thief Stole from you, the thief stealthed near you, he’s probably going to Skull Fear very soon, especially since (a) you’re out of LF and other defenses and (b) this is the second or third time it’s happening.
If you take Shrouded Removal, a 10-point trait in Death Magic, you can cleanse the fear off just by entering DS without using a stun break.
OP’s story is fishy, partly because there is no way the thief could have killed him with just 1 steal and 3 HS. They must have been fighting for some time beforehand, in which case the Skull Fear + 3 HS is likely not the problem. The thief smartly saved the Skull Fear for when OP was low instead of blowing it right away (like most thieves do). Apparently he also waited until OP used all his Life Force because OP could have entered DS while feared to absorb the damage. So apparently OP, even after encountering this several times, didn’t save his life force for the Skull Fear.
I don’t know. Skull Fear is a strong skill, but if you don’t slot a stun break or at least take Reaper’s Protection in w3 you don’t have the right to complain about getting CC’d imo.
It was in the middle of a fight and I was already weakened. On top of my lowered hp, my skills (DS or DS3) were in cooldown. And that’s when the thief use this combo. I am dead due to Skull Fear. I get feared for 3 seconds, cannot control my character, a bunch of damage pops up, and I am dead.
I few people suggested that I save my DS and DS3. Well it aren’t that simple in zerg vs zerg. What you are asking is for me to not use DS until the thief shows up. In zerg fights I pop into DS to soak up damage all the time, not just from that thief. Often I had no choice but to turn on DS because I cannot Ride the Lightning my way out.
So you were in a zerg v. zerg fight when this happened? That’s kind of crucial information to leave out. Your OP made it sound like the thief killed you by himself with a faceroll combo and you were upset at potential imbalance. Now the story is that the thief is picking targets out of a zerg. So what? I like to sit around in zerg vs. zerg fights, identify low stragglers, pull them in and burst them too. It’s not exclusive to thieves (though thieves can do it very well), a warrior could have hundred blades’d you, an Ele could have done the Updraft into fire combo, an Engineer could have knocked you back or immobilized before taking you down…. It sounds more like you just got frustrated with this one thief in particular because you kept running into him and then made this thread for therapeutic reasons.
I can see warriors, eles and engineers and anyone else coming. I can plan ahead. I am actually pretty good at watching the battlefield. But thieves there is nothing I can do. They stealth+culling. They hit super hard. And now they can fear me (and all my nearby allies) for 3 seconds, disabling me completely.
I thought you were completely out of life force, DS was on cooldown, and you had no fears left. Even if you saw those other classes coming, it wouldn’t have mattered, the same exact thing would have happened. They have disables too, remember?
I usually try to save up one dodge for emergencies. Not always available but I try. I usually have no problem dodging away from an ele’s RTL+Updraft, since I can see it coming. When it comes to stealth thieves with Skull Fear, I cannot evade because I have no idea when he will use it. Unless I randomly guess and waste my last evade, of course.
Eles can just switch to earth, close, and disable again. It’s not like you dodge once and then they give up. Warriors can just switch to rifle and spam now that you’re out of dodges. Face it man, there was nothing you could do, there were too many enemies and your defenses had run out.
And do you know that DS is bugged (treated as 0-25% hp) so Heartseeker always deals extra damage against DS?
This is so far out of date it isn’t even funny. All bugs related to HP percentage and DS were fixed months ago. Thanks for spreading misinformation.
And BTW Skull Fear doesn’t just work on me. It is an AoE skill that works on all my allies. So me being a necromancer is in a way a LIABILITY to my team. I just gave thieves a skill that can fear all my nearby allies for 3 seconds.
Yea, and rangers give their enemies AoE regeneration, right? Put that way, all classes are detrimental to their team when fighting a thief.
AoE regeneration for your enemies won’t kill you. It is probably based on the thief’s healing power anyways (e.g. probably not too high). A 3 second fear for all your allies will. And that 3 second fear will happen even if the said thief was level one and not wearing any items.
Not necessarily. In your case, it only killed you when
1) You were in a prolonged zerg fight
2) You had used up DS, taken lots of damage
3) You had used all your fears
4) You had used all your stunbreaksDude, anything will kill you in that situation. Skull Fear is not the problem here. In fact, there is no problem. The thief correctly identified who was prone to burst and out of defenses (in your case, life force and stunbreaks) and seized the opportunity. That sounds like smart play to me. I sympathize with your frustration, but I disagree that anything needs to be done about this.
Like I said against other classes I still got my very last resort: dodge. But against a stealth thief with Skull Fear I cannot dodge. It will be pure luck if I dodge successfully. I can’t see him and I can’t see him coming. What kind of necro smart play can save me here?
I agree that he seize his opportunity very well. When he use the combo my DS3 is out (either due to DS being out or DS3 on cool down). I never said he was a bad thief. But come on Skull Fear + 3x Heartseeker is not a hard combo to pull off at all. And it always works because once your victim is feared he can’t do anything.
(edited by CHIPS.6018)
And it always works because once your victim is feared he can’t do anything.
Not necessarily. The only thing you’ve shown in this thread is that if you are in a zerg vs. zerg fight, have taken lots of damage, and are out of LF, fears, and stunbreaks, Skull Fear will kill you. Who cares?
If you take Shrouded Removal, a 10-point trait in Death Magic, you can cleanse the fear off just by entering DS without using a stun break.
OP’s story is fishy, partly because there is no way the thief could have killed him with just 1 steal and 3 HS. They must have been fighting for some time beforehand, in which case the Skull Fear + 3 HS is likely not the problem. The thief smartly saved the Skull Fear for when OP was low instead of blowing it right away (like most thieves do). Apparently he also waited until OP used all his Life Force because OP could have entered DS while feared to absorb the damage. So apparently OP, even after encountering this several times, didn’t save his life force for the Skull Fear.
I don’t know. Skull Fear is a strong skill, but if you don’t slot a stun break or at least take Reaper’s Protection in w3 you don’t have the right to complain about getting CC’d imo.
It was in the middle of a fight and I was already weakened. On top of my lowered hp, my skills (DS or DS3) were in cooldown. And that’s when the thief use this combo. I am dead due to Skull Fear. I get feared for 3 seconds, cannot control my character, a bunch of damage pops up, and I am dead.
I few people suggested that I save my DS and DS3. Well it aren’t that simple in zerg vs zerg. What you are asking is for me to not use DS until the thief shows up. In zerg fights I pop into DS to soak up damage all the time, not just from that thief. Often I had no choice but to turn on DS because I cannot Ride the Lightning my way out.
So you were in a zerg v. zerg fight when this happened? That’s kind of crucial information to leave out. Your OP made it sound like the thief killed you by himself with a faceroll combo and you were upset at potential imbalance. Now the story is that the thief is picking targets out of a zerg. So what? I like to sit around in zerg vs. zerg fights, identify low stragglers, pull them in and burst them too. It’s not exclusive to thieves (though thieves can do it very well), a warrior could have hundred blades’d you, an Ele could have done the Updraft into fire combo, an Engineer could have knocked you back or immobilized before taking you down…. It sounds more like you just got frustrated with this one thief in particular because you kept running into him and then made this thread for therapeutic reasons.
I can see warriors, eles and engineers and anyone else coming. I can plan ahead. I am actually pretty good at watching the battlefield. But thieves there is nothing I can do. They stealth+culling. They hit super hard. And now they can fear me (and all my nearby allies) for 3 seconds, disabling me completely.
I thought you were completely out of life force, DS was on cooldown, and you had no fears left. Even if you saw those other classes coming, it wouldn’t have mattered, the same exact thing would have happened. They have disables too, remember?
I usually try to save up one dodge for emergencies. Not always available but I try. I usually have no problem dodging away from an ele’s RTL+Updraft, since I can see it coming. When it comes to stealth thieves with Skull Fear, I cannot evade because I have no idea when he will use it. Unless I randomly guess and waste my last evade, of course.
Eles can just switch to earth, close, and disable again. It’s not like you dodge once and then they give up. Warriors can just switch to rifle and spam now that you’re out of dodges. Face it man, there was nothing you could do, there were too many enemies and your defenses had run out.
So I guess that last 12k hp I got was a write off. T_T
If you’re not happy with the squishiness of your build, try another?
And it always works because once your victim is feared he can’t do anything.
Not necessarily. The only thing you’ve shown in this thread is that if you are in a zerg vs. zerg fight, have taken lots of damage, and are out of LF, fears, and stunbreaks, Skull Fear will kill you. Who cares?
You made it sound like it is my fault for running out of LF, DS recharge, fear and stunbreak (if I got them) in a zerg vs zerg fight. Necro is a high priority target in zerg vs zerg because they always get hit. Skills you use against a necro will “almost” never fail.
(edited by CHIPS.6018)
What build are you running that you run out of LF in a zerg v. zerg fight? I usually don’t have a problem with LF generation…
And it always works because once your victim is feared he can’t do anything.
Not necessarily. The only thing you’ve shown in this thread is that if you are in a zerg vs. zerg fight, have taken lots of damage, and are out of LF, fears, and stunbreaks, Skull Fear will kill you. Who cares?
You made it sound like it is my fault for running out of LF, fear and stunbreak (if I got them) in a zerg vs zerg fight. Necro is a high priority target in zerg vs zerg because they always get hit. Skills you use against a necro will “almost” never fail.
Sorry, I didn’t mean to imply it was your fault. Here’s what I’m saying. Your character had been in the fight for a while, was low on health and defenses and had several key abilities on cooldown. Then he was killed by a character who didn’t have his key abilities on cooldown and had probably been in less of the fight than your character. This has been happening in MMO’s since the dawn of time. It is frustrating (especially since it was a thief, I know) but there was nothing special about it, and nothing needs to be changed.
(edited by lettucemode.3789)
The only problem I see here is that they can steal something we don’t have; I would love for our stock fears to be 3 secs.
We can’t talent a fear to last 3 seconds.
Not sure what the point about being low and out of cooldowns from a zerg and then dying to a burst class. That would happen to any class.
And while Necro’s aren’t the greatest 1v1 class due to needing LF to be competitive in 1v1s, the game isn’t balanced around 1v1 anyway. Necro is among the best team fight classes in the entire game.
If you’re simply asking how to deal with stolen skull fear one thing you can do is place a fear mark in a strategic place so that you can retreat to it when they stealth. Simply running away in a straight line is also effective since skull fear has a long cast time and the duration depends on the distance from the target (farther away = less fear duration). Since their steal will be down they will likely need to have another shadowstep utility skill equipped to actually get close enough to fear you which they may not have equipped or is on cooldown.
Another option depending on your build is the stability on death shroud trait. The stability will outlast his stealth outside of shadow refuge (which you can use your fear mark on or again simply run away). Plus your life transfer will hit stealthed thieves.
Also if you suspect a skull fear it isn’t actually all that random to dodge. Skull fear has IIRC 1.25s cast. Most stealths are 3s. If you dodge anytime after 1.25s you’re actually very likely to dodge the skull fear.
(edited by Skyro.3108)
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