Guild Wars 2

Well, I was actually thinking about sharing my ideas with you but the ammount of „omg do something with necro” threads is abyssmal. Nevertheless, I have some ideas. I have voiced my opinions about status of necromancer profession before, but I’m afraid the thread was closed and I can’t access neither it’s previous nor it’s current link. I didn’t think I needed to save my posts from that topic, but They are hashes might have them, as he said he saved at least one.

But to briefly state where I stand in the question of necro balance, I think there are three major issues that necros for certain have:
1. Bugs (as obvious as it is, it needs to be said),
2. Lack of variety in weapon skills and trait synergy,
3. Death Shroud mechanics which benefits few builds, not the profession itself, and feels like a „downed state for demand” with a token attack, token quick fear to interrupt execution, a good movement ability and a token „hlep!!!” button that drains life AoE unless specifically traited for.
4. Weird Effort : Reward and Risk : Reward mechanics and ratios compared to other professions – necromancers seem to right now be on the bottom of the nerf-buff chain. They rocked in beta, but were overnerfed. This can be remedied when bugs are fixed and we can see what the numbers look like when necro works as he should.

What I think is not an issue:
1. Lack of raw efficiency (we don’t know that because bugs are not fixed),
2. Not using Death Shroud properly (sorry, it’s too funny not to say it),
3. Lack of potential in the profession.

Death Shroud seems to be a big issue. There were many, many ideas how to change Death Shroud. Most, I think, were posted from a view of a certain build (make it more useful for minion master / conditionmancer etc.). Take note however, that I don’t like to talk numbers – I am a number-junkie theorycrafter, but bugs make any calculations nigh impossible. So I’d like to talk ideas, not numbers. And about ideas we can talk freely because we have the data needed.

I think we can agree that Death Shroud in it’s current form does not benefit many builds. We are stripped from our picked skills, and forced into 4-button mechanic that someone thought was cool. Some poeple like it, some don’t. Most however agree (I think), that DS, unless traited for, is a luckluster class mechanic.

What I think we need is a profession ability that benefits all builds, not one or two. How can this be achieved?

My idea is as follows:
Make „Dark Path” a F2 skill, make it cost Lifeforce (a small ammount) and allow it to teleport to a location even if it doesn’t hit anything (similar to how Ride the Lightning works for Ele, or how it should work when fixed). Let this skill cost a certain ammount of Lifeforce. Don’t switch it underwater. Could be made a leap finisher.
Make „Doom” a F3 skill, make it cost Lifeforce, scale the duration of the fear with how much Lifeforce necro has (from 0,5s to 3s, or even 3,5s max). An argument can be made to replace the effect with that of Wave of Fear from Underwater DS.
Make „Life Transfer” a F4 skill. Let it heal HP when Lifeforce is full. Could be made a whirl finisher, but I guess I would avoid that. It can be scratched entirely and some of it’s effects could be moved to dagger skills. It could be replaced with a skill that hits a target and adds lifeforce scaling with the highest of: conditions on the target (like Mace #3), damage you deal with it (scaling with power) and minions you have alive (possibly damaging them). Options are plentiful.

When Death Shroud is activated, the primary health bar is replaced by Lifeforce. This is a stunbreaker that grants a short stability buff, gives some stacks of Might and quick Protection or maybe a non-boon based increase in damage and protection the more Lifeforce the necro has left. This are subject to change of course. This could in fact work as a „survivability spike” then. Most „glass cannon” builds would use it for a short time and turn it off quickly not to waste Lifeforce (so they would benefit from damage but little survivabilty, as they would get „zeroed” in lifeforce by a single skill or two), and tanky builds would gain some damage off of it (because they can stay in it longer) and it would aid their survivability. Win-win. This would need to be balanced of course, but we are not talking numbers – we’re talking ideas.
Traits could grant additional effects (useful to builds that have them), but that would be it. You retain your weapon skillbars, your utilities, your necro is free to do what he was built for.

Why that? Well, we all could use a movement ability (ranged builds would use it to escape, melee builds would use it to close the gap) as mobility is something we sorely lack and I don’t think this is a balance choice. We all can use CC – because well, who doesn’t? Life Transfer I have mixed feelings about. It’s nice, but only for few builds around Blood Magic. Why would I want these skills to be taken out of Death Shroud? Because then they can be balaced with our profession as a whole. Right now DS is a strange mix of survivability buff that gives you a package of 4 skills that may or may not fit your build. You can’t use utility, or your weapon skills. You can enter DS to use skills, but then you have it on cooldown. You can enter DS for survivability, but then you are forced to use skills that may not even be good in your build. We can’t be given an „elite-like” profession mechanic that tries to be „catch all do all”, because it will either be Overpowered or suck at all it does. Survivability aspect and Utility aspect of DS must be separated and balanced separately or they will never be good. Profession mechanic has to be build-proof – we’re stuck with it. We can’t change it. It must be useful in each and every build.

Other minor stuff:
- Axe #1 and Axe #2 should have small AoE effects like most melee weapons do.
- Unholy Feast (axe #3) should be a blast finisher.
- Dark Pact (dagger #3) should be a gap closer and a leap finisher that applies it’s debuff when it hits.
- Feast of Corruption (mace #3) could be a blast finisher. Instead minor damage scaling on ammount of conditions, it should have it’s cooldown increased and consume your own conditions for direct damage (this could also use the conditions that do not apply damage due to „stack limits”, if the game knows they are there but doesn’t apply their effects). It should not deal even half as much damage as if the conditions were left to tick on their own, but it would provide an option.
This, combined with fixes, could actually make Conditionmancers unique in their ability to „burn” conditions for some effects.

+ 1 ..err.. + 2!
I am liking the idea of how DS would work, and taking the skills out of it to place them on our f2-4. I always thought it was strange that we didn’t utilize them like other scholars. Good work on looking out for each and every build and play style.

i gave up everything. now i am using immobilize and cripple skills. only this build is viable for me. i don’t like mark skills because it is not instant with weak damages. but i like the necrotic grasp.

Thanerion.3721:

My idea is as follows:
Make „Dark Path” a F2 skill, make it cost Lifeforce (a small ammount) and allow it to teleport to a location even if it doesn’t hit anything (similar to how Ride the Lightning works for Ele, or how it should work when fixed). Let this skill cost a certain ammount of Lifeforce. Don’t switch it underwater. Could be made a leap finisher.
Make „Doom” a F3 skill, make it cost Lifeforce, scale the duration of the fear with how much Lifeforce necro has (from 0,5s to 3s, or even 3,5s max). An argument can be made to replace the effect with that of Wave of Fear from Underwater DS.
Make „Life Transfer” a F4 skill. Let it heal HP when Lifeforce is full. Could be made a whirl finisher, but I guess I would avoid that. It can be scratched entirely and some of it’s effects could be moved to dagger skills. It could be replaced with a skill that hits a target and adds lifeforce scaling with the highest of: conditions on the target (like Mace #3), damage you deal with it (scaling with power) and minions you have alive (possibly damaging them). Options are plentiful.

When Death Shroud is activated, the primary health bar is replaced by Lifeforce.

THIS is exactly what I though about. All skills hould be F1 to F4 and LF should be like adrenaline bar. Now skills should be improved. Life Blast- burst dmg with some random conditions on each thick. Doom- AoE 3-4 sec fear etc. Improved.

And Death Shroud should be used fully to replace HP with LF Green HP Pool, without any form, so we can still use for small amount of time (10 sec DS max) our skills while in effect of it. DS cant be used to replace HP if bars are full (example 4x bars like adrenaline) and it drains whole bars. Each F1-F4 drain some LF. The more bars the longer green HP pools stays, and it protect our red HP.

Or something like that.

I think someone might have been playing ele and warrior a bit too much, DS is in its core idea fine (transformation, you get new skills, model goes dark super saiyan nonsense mode from corrupt death powers) Life force itself being the set amount of hp you have in there and causing you to ask yourself was i in DS for too much and cant use it in a short amount of time again to take some big hit? While your suggestion would make condition, well and minion bomber necro setups to be able to use DS, it would destroy axe, dagger and life force/DS main form setups.

3 main things it lacks – Life blast changing effects with weapons equipped, a 5 in DS/F2 skill that benefits overall as a save yourkitten heal that drains all LF left and last but not least the old stun break effect upon use/exit.

I have already stated my thoughts on DS. I don’t mind that it only allows to have a 4 skill set up or is a transformed mode to be in. It just seems that with the lack of an ability to customize each slot between a choice of abilities, each spec of necro currently only gains 1 real ability that benefits from their build. Doom is the only one that affects all the builds but other than an interrupt it really serves no purpose because of it’s short duration. I said it before in a thread I created that got no attention and is now off the first page, DS abilities should have some customization ability like the utility bar, so that every necro build can gain some benefit from it.

Lololol in pvp its very funny to see my necro being 4 seconds fear’d by thiefs/warrior and when i pop up the ds 1 second fear lolol it gets me smile everytime lolol, im not kidding i laugh when this happens….and then i stop and think but wasn’t fear a “mark” of the necro?
I can kill people, i can hold the point and being attacke’d by 2 guys and pop my flesh stomp just for interrupts but the fear’s is the funniest xDDD (being fear’d that is….)

I think DS should have stun break on use/exit, and a stronger fear ability. Fear was supposed to be our trademark ability, and I find a minor fear in downed, another minor fear in DS, and then a fear from the staff. The fears need to be made AoE (like the DS siphon) or longer. I do wish it had more synergy with builds, maybe that your auto had effects that went with your weapon (scepter gives it a bleed for instance), but I have to say that while it is amazing as a damage sponge and emergency "Holy crap I’m about to die ::press F1, fear nearest person, run around until your heal is ready:: and more towards something that can be used in every build.

While I don’t agree with all the fine details of the OPs post I do like the idea of expanding life force into a resource to be used for a variety of purposes. Having something to use LF on be it tankiness, damage, conditions, minions, control, etc. would be very much welcome. This way Anet would quite having to make DS be everything for everyone, because I just don’t think it can be.

For a change well thought ideas… I salute you sir.
Also doesn’t involve “gime this” ideas.
On the topic I do like the idea. Loosing skills and getting few that hardly ever fit your spec is lame. If they were all f1-f4 and DS itself was simply a new fully separate life bar and gave some benefits depending on your pool it would actually:
1. not be a… oh snap button.
2. wouldnt be avoided like a plague depending on spec.
3. could be used both ways, for defense and offense.

If i use ( in spvp) my dagger/dagger combination, i usally pop up ds to fear/teleport to the target and exit ds to apply blind/poison and other conditions wells and dagger my opponent down, but when a thief, after this, dissapears and heartseek me, fear me and everything that he can puts me down i just want to bash my head into the wall xD lololol..oh and warriors are the funniest lolol kicks me the hell out of him, then he jumps to me, gives me a beating so hard that neither ds can save me in times of despair and if i can survive this he just, and again, fear me just for the fun lololol.

The Long range necro build does really well in WvW. I like the Necro at long range. Mid range sucks, and the dagger build isn’t my play style so I cannot comment on it. I focus on survivability more than damage and can be a thorn in anyones side.

I don’t entirely agree with TC; DS can be useful for minion and conditions builds.

Unyielding Blast and Reaper’s Might is particularly good for minions. Dark Path has a good synergy for a conditions build, whether you are just trying to bleed people out, or just adding chill to your scepter/dagger rotations.

But the problem I think, and here is where I do agree with TC, is that the above mentioned traits and skills aren’t very EFFECTIVE. They have a good concept to them but they are just not efficient enough. Life Blast is snoringly slow, and makes you wonder if the might stack and vulnerability is worth it at all. Dark Path is a bit too slow as well.

I personally like the current Incarnation of DS. The meta game you can play both offensively and defensively really makes this class unique and enjoyable to play.

In terms of the DS abilities.

DS2 needs to get to the target way faster. Instant teleport please or at least shoot the grasping hand.

DS3 fear is to short. The trait that buffs the Fear length needs to be taken from 50% to 200% to make it viable. Lotta ways to correct this.

Based on my own playstyle with the necro, here’s what comes to mind to improve the class:

1. Death Magic Traits. Putting aside the uselessness of the jagged horrors, the problem I see with Death Magic is that, while this is meant to be the trait tree for both minions and for the staff, all the minor traits are based around the minions, so those of us who go into the tree for the staff are somewhat left out in the cold. If we could get it so that at least some of the minors are minion-based and some are staff/mark-based, that’d be nice.

2. Speaking of the staff, I’d say it could use a boost in its base damage; not necessarily a huge one, but killing with the staff can feel a little on the slow side.

3. The Dagger. It’d be nice if the lifetap healed a bit more, but the big issue to me is that skill #3, Dark Pact, just doesn’t feel terribly useful, within the theme of the weapon. With the dagger, you should be trying to stay in close to the enemy, and while dark pact can help with that in pvp, in pve it’s unnecessary, since mobs aren’t in the habit of running away; weapon skills ought to be useful in both pvp and pve.

I’d change Dark Pact, as has been suggested around here before, into a closing teleport move to bring you into melee range.

4. Death Shroud. The problem with death shroud is skill #2, dark path. While it can be used for a sort of stance dancing with the dagger, getting into melee and dropping death shroud, it has no actual utility for use with the rest of death shroud, which is otherwise range-oriented.

I see two possible solutions: first, make the skill a targeted teleport, which you can use to either approach or retreat. Second, they could keep the skill as-is, but give us a fifth skill that’s melee ranged so you have an actual reason to close with an enemy in death shroud.

Love the DS suggestions. Anet taking notes? (No)

Huh. I guess I am one of the few who likes Death Shroud. The Only changes I would like to see is if the 2 skill was targeted blink instead of a grasp throwing me in melee (maybe op, but anything is better than forcing me in melee. And if its a chacing skill then at least increase projectile speed so they don’t just outrun it.) Also, more reasonably, the removal of life force scaling on the 1 skill. Its weak even at max life force, and at less than 50% down right insulting.

My issues with the class is all the skills that apply conditions to yourself, and the only thing we can do with these self inflicted wounds is consume them every 25 seconds, or swap them at 90(!) seconds. This seems to be the theme of our class yet we are given little return for hurting ourselves. Then there is fear. The duration is a joke plain and simple when compared to other CC.

Also the bug fixes, but that goes without saying.

Zabatakis.3571:

Huh. I guess I am one of the few who likes Death Shroud. The Only changes I would like to see is if the 2 skill was targeted blink instead of a grasp throwing me in melee (maybe op, but anything is better than forcing me in melee. And if its a chacing skill then at least increase projectile speed so they don’t just outrun it.) Also, more reasonably, the removal of life force scaling on the 1 skill. Its weak even at max life force, and at less than 50% down right insulting.

My issues with the class is all the skills that apply conditions to yourself, and the only thing we can do with these self inflicted wounds is consume them every 25 seconds, or swap them at 90(!) seconds. This seems to be the theme of our class yet we are given little return for hurting ourselves. Then there is fear. The duration is a joke plain and simple when compared to other CC.

Also the bug fixes, but that goes without saying.

You like Death Shroud but want to change 3 out of the 4 skills.

I like death shroud too, I just hate the implementation.

Yes I like it, as in if it stayed as is I would have no problem. If some of the things I said or others said happen I will down right love it.

I WvW mainly, and I use it to great effect. With well build, I run up drop everything in places I know will scatter the enemies line, consume the 80 conditions I just took and death shroud out saving my butt at around 10% health while my team takes advantage of the line break. I am always at the front or with the melees. I play my class like Swain, a tank mage.

I would like it if DS let you retain your current weapon skills and have it replace your utility skills with the current DS offerings.

Or keep the same limited skill set DS currently offers but give it skills based on your weapons so it can function well with different builds.

Honestly I could make my Necro worth while if the fears lasted longer that 1-3/4 seconds max.

In SPvP i’ve got a solid build based around fear/bleeds, because you can get fear to do 3x the dps of a single bleed. So you can make them worth while, but at their current state, the CD time compared to duration of the fear itself makes them a “o kitty” button rather than an offensive “I beat kitty’s” spell.

(nothing against cats, but if ANet is going to auto use it I might as well save them the time haha)

Also what Zabatakis said about the #2 and #1 skill in DS.