Guild Wars 2

Im a guardian and usually do dungeon runs. But plz to all necromancers….! would you guys plz stick to your normal condition builds.Somtimes i see necromancers,no mostly 10 out of 8 necros who come into dungeons with these ridiculuouse builds and contribute nothing to the party.

Especially these minion builders, for example, the next phase is fighting Arah lupi….and you com in with these 3 minions and fight lupi? Are you joking?

No i do not kick necromancers…I would rather hav 2 guardian and 1 full conditionmancer then 3 tanky guardians in dungeon runs.But the problem is most necros i see these days they com in with som weird spiders tat cant even last1 sec in dungeons.This is why somtimes you see “no necros or rangers” in lfg

Wat happen to all those hardcore condition Necros? Necros somtimes are good in som dungeons and a good backup and Ive seen som pretty good Necros time to time who finish off the work and contribute in dungeons.

What im saying is plz make a (guide-line) for necros who are new or old.

You know that power necros and support necros are not bad in dungeons?

you know what? This is not because I want to use those weird minions. To some people they might think those minions are worth to play, they enjoy building an army of theirs, but to me, those minions are just brainless NPC who have a lot of bugs and attacking target I dont want/need it to. Yet I am still running a minion build in PVE content . why?
Although I like the WvW and PvE content in the same time, they are tough to play with necromancer in the same class. But it would be just too fustrating for us changing our builds and traits everytime we switch from WvW to PvE, vice versa.
And since condition build gets nerfed a lot through every change ( nerf in skills condi dmg , the increasing condition immunity, stability and cleansing ability of classes except necros ) , minion master become one of the classes which fits in more as an attrition class. Although some may argue about how strong is the tradition condi build still is, it is having too much counter, and I meant TOO MUCH counter already (might be just me playing super suck)
Back to your question, so I guess simple PvE necro players shouldn’t refuse this request of yours , but for those who are trying to roam as the pathetic necro in the WvW, there isnt much choice for them ( despite your choice of using terror/dhumfire or not)

When a boss forces you to separate to survive, your gonna wish you had a healing necro with transfusion.

klesk.1790:

Wat happen to all those hardcore condition Necros?

Those necromancers are annoyed with the fact that they still have to deal with 25 bleed stack cap after a full year. A single condition mancer can fill up this cap on his own . So if there is a single bleed from another team member then the conditionmancer loses damage. I personally stopped doing full condtionmancer for that reason alone.

Condi necro and minion masters are both bad for lupi. Lupi’s lifesteal removes a condition with every tick and minions just sit in the lifesteal and heal him up.

OP, many veteran necros either quitted the game or are playing another class. I am not sure you noticed, but things has been going very badly for us lately. Necro’s current damage output is worst than it was in August 2012.

Zach.3264:

Play how you want to play. Simple.

Only if you arent in group content like dungeons.

10 out of 8 necros? That is alot…

That’s called being an idiot, and it has nothing to do with Necros, it has to do with the person behind the keyboard.

That said, condition builds are just not that good in PvE content right now. Hybrid is fine because at least they’ll deal damage when you push off every single application of burning, and the warriors push off 10 stacks of bleeding with their 40 DPS bleeds.

But other than that, power builds (minions included) are the best PvE builds we have. Minions just rely on the user to be smart enough to not bring them to fights like Lupi or Jade Maw.

Honestly, why bring a necromancer to a dungeon? I have tried and I have felt completely ineffectual. I’m better off using my warrior or guardian.

If you want to look at it that way then why bring any class to anything? Better off using Warrior.

Warriors are overrated but still a safe choice.

Necros are unpopular in dungeons? Strange, I didn’t know that.
I’ve even been in a group of three necromancers (death shroud, condimancer and a tanky one), a mesmer and a thief and we did dungeons with no problems whatsoever.

I love my minion master in dungeons, but I dont bring him for fights like in Arah against Lupicus. I’ll bring my Ele, Guardian, or Mesmer instead.

Malganis.7468:

I love my minion master in dungeons, but I dont bring him for fights like in Arah against Lupicus. I’ll bring my Ele, Guardian, or Mesmer instead.

I am actually dagger on lupi every single time.

klesk.1790:

But the problem is most necros i see these days they com in with som weird spiders tat cant even last1 sec in dungeons.

I’m sorry but that bit was really funny.

Another guy that believes necroes ONLY can use conditions… Thats like saying guardians only can tank, and can’t do damage.. Or saying that a mesmer only can use clones…

Power necro are pretty strong and very popular in dungeons

reign.2369:

klesk.1790:

But the problem is most necros i see these days they com in with som weird spiders tat cant even last1 sec in dungeons.

I’m sorry but that bit was really funny.

true though since that weird spider and its friends have no brain and would stay inside the Boss AOE while we were screaming at it, " OMG RUN FOREST !! RUN !!!!"

I’m almost 80 on my necro, and was wondering if its good for dungeons. While leveling I went with full power/zerker gear, staff and dagger/focus with 2 wells and signet for running speed. I’m wondering whether it would be any good in dungeons. Like, are wells causing problems by overriding other combo fields and such. Some tips and tricks and builds would be helpful. I did story mode on my lvl 60 necro in ac with the others being under 50, so I would say it can be pretty useful. Wells do nice damage if the party can keep mobs in them, and blinds in plague form I found really helpful for the party. Or should I go with lich form for max damage?

We can keep discussing about necro beign useless or not in dungeon, power or condi, ecc..

But the fact is that it’s just fine for the difficult level that the dungeons are set up. Same for all other classes.

Zaganna.6034:

We can keep discussing about necro beign useless or not in dungeon, power or condi, ecc..

But the fact is that it’s just fine for the difficult level that the dungeons are set up. Same for all other classes.

You can make any combination of the classes including up to 5 of the same class of any class, and still run every dungeon, without too much issue.

The only thing I could see this not work on is maybe really difficult fractals, and I still imagine that a group of really solid players could make it work.

Well, Power Necromancers are imho very good and capable of strong burst damage, AoE included.

@nagymbear Yeah, sure. There’s no real issue with wells, players do like them in general. Some imba-speed clear whatsoever groups who call themselves “pros” and still abuse every single glitch and boss mechanic to make things easier might whine when you cover some water or fire fields with Dark combo field/light combo field from wells, but they’ll basiclly complain about anything that isn’t beloved warrior, guardian or mesmer.

Wells serve in many ways. Not only damaging purpose, like Well of Suffering, but things like proper Well of Darkness can negate damage group takes to 0 quite often, or stuff like bringing Well of Power to condition encounters/ Tequatl fight (place WoP on his chain fear, gg, now everyone affected by well gets stability from fear and regen from poison ^^).

Bhawb.7408:

You can make any combination of the classes including up to 5 of the same class of any class, and still run every dungeon, without too much issue.

The only thing I could see this not work on is maybe really difficult fractals, and I still imagine that a group of really solid players could make it work.

Indeed.
In fractal i just want a guardian in party. but it’s just for the shaman boss. I don’t know if there’s an other strategy, but I see the fight as a whole missle storm….
Sanctuary, WoR and Shield of the Avenger are highly necessery.
At least it’s the only way I managed to deal with that fract even at high levels.

But a week ago, I made a 49 guardian less (There was still a war and a thief, don’t remember the other 2). No grawl? easy job.

CHIPS.6018:

OP, many veteran necros either quitted the game or are playing another class. I am not sure you noticed, but things has been going very badly for us lately. Necro’s current damage output is worst than it was in August 2012.

You know, it could be worse….

You could be a ranger

Wolf Legacy.3791:

You know, it could be worse….

You could be a ranger

I’m a necromancer who rolls with a ranger… and an engineer. We’re not very good at picking winners.

klesk.1790:

Im a guardian and usually do dungeon runs. But plz to all necromancers….! would you guys plz stick to your normal condition builds.Somtimes i see necromancers,no mostly 10 out of 8 necros who come into dungeons with these ridiculuouse builds and contribute nothing to the party.

Especially these minion builders, for example, the next phase is fighting Arah lupi….and you com in with these 3 minions and fight lupi? Are you joking?

No i do not kick necromancers…I would rather hav 2 guardian and 1 full conditionmancer then 3 tanky guardians in dungeon runs.But the problem is most necros i see these days they com in with som weird spiders tat cant even last1 sec in dungeons.This is why somtimes you see “no necros or rangers” in lfg

Wat happen to all those hardcore condition Necros? Necros somtimes are good in som dungeons and a good backup and Ive seen som pretty good Necros time to time who finish off the work and contribute in dungeons.

What im saying is plz make a (guide-line) for necros who are new or old.

Only if you guardians stop using useless gear and traits then, “healing” guardians, “tanking” guardians should all kitten off really, they are useless a DPS guardian helps way more and has just as good support with his boons.

Also, minions are pretty kittening strong at the moment so don’t know what you’re takling about (excluding some paths ofc), Power necros are pretty good and strong, condition necros are pretty decent if there is only 1 condition specced profession in your team.

So when guardians start actually not sucking (PvT gear, Clerics gear, Sentinel gear) then you can talk.

To the OP, I can count on one hand the # of bosses where Minions are bad (like Lupi) accept for those rare occasions Minions simply outperform other utilities. Some of the issues that were brought up.

-Minions die too fast, this is just not true I almost never need to recast my minions and when i do its bone minions and its a short cooldown

-Poor Minons AI, ill agree with this and it would be nice to have some control but overall its not an issue 90% of the time.

-Poor damage, if built correctly using minions far outperforms other utility skills in terms of damage.

Now im not saying conditions are bad and i do in fact run my conditionmancer for certain dungeons but overall PvE content is a joke and MM fits into the group just fine. For Lupi i just swap my utility’s to wells my traits fit fine with that build.

Flesh Golem has 33k HP and around 2800 armor when traited. Blood Fiend has the same HP (lower armor), the rest of the minions sit around 25k HP. That is a crapload of meatshielding, even if that is all you use them for. Essentially every 24 seconds you can summon 83k HP worth of shielding for your team, and that is only three minions.

That’s why they are good in PvE right now, its got little to do with their damage (full 6 minions deal only like 2k DPS).

Bhawb.7408:

Flesh Golem has 33k HP and around 2800 armor when traited. Blood Fiend has the same HP (lower armor), the rest of the minions sit around 25k HP. That is a crapload of meatshielding, even if that is all you use them for. Essentially every 24 seconds you can summon 83k HP worth of shielding for your team, and that is only three minions.

That’s why they are good in PvE right now, its got little to do with their damage (full 6 minions deal only like 2k DPS).

They also count twards the AoE cap (most skills have a max target of 5) so the shielding is truly a factor here, good point.

As far as the damage I agree with the 2k ish DPS. I disagree that that’s not the point, if you factor in the cool down on other skills (like wells) Minions have some of the highest sustained DPS of any Utility’s for any class because they are always active.

Geez… this post is going to make me play my MM again lol sorry OP

I agree that the DPS isn’t bad, but I don’t really run minions for the DPS, although you could argue its a good reason to. I think they are much more useful for the tanking quality, and that the damage is a bonus (but thats just an opinion). For PvE that is. sPvP the sustained damage is totally a big factor.

Bhawb your on my server aren’t you (Dragonbrand)

We should group some time

I got a question. Is it worthwhile to keep bone minions alive or its better to blow them up?

The dps boost minions provide is very small compared to the necro’s personal dps. its about 1k with full minions.

tattoohead.3217:

Bhawb your on my server aren’t you (Dragonbrand)

We should group some time

No, I’m on Isle of Janthir (I might have guested on DB though). But we could group for anything not WvW.

Dalanor.5387:

I got a question. Is it worthwhile to keep bone minions alive or its better to blow them up?

They have significantly higher DPS blowing up (even untraited), but unless you have Death Nova I’d suggest keeping them alive until they are lowish in HP. Personally though, I don’t even use them in PvE, and I wouldn’t use them unless you have Death Nova.

If you can manage it, for example in most bossfights, you can blow them up just for simple blast finjshers. You know, theoretical blast finisher every 10 seconds isn’t a bad thing. But you have to watch where they are.
Sometimes I just bring these little buddies when we group up with class providing water fields, just to get some burst heals when needed or rats are about to die. But usually I run Golem and Shadow Fiend for PvE/sometimes roaming (I mostly switch SF to Wurm, I run 30/0/10/0/30 with great success), just because they both do some nice damage, best from all minions as far as I know, SF gives me even more LF generation + allows to blind stomp very often, Golem is just no brainer, always cool.
You see, maybe running a build which is totally oriented about minions isn’t the best idea ever and most efficient, but putting one or two minions to your build can help. And, well, it’s always fun

Dalanor.5387:

I got a question. Is it worthwhile to keep bone minions alive or its better to blow them up?

Only time I use em in PvE is when I run Vampiric Master for the life steal (they hit fairly fast)

Also they are a blast finisher so that “can” be useful in organised groups.

CHIPS.6018:

OP, many veteran necros either quitted the game or are playing another class. I am not sure you noticed, but things has been going very badly for us lately. Necro’s current damage output is worst than it was in August 2012.

Only in spvp and only for condi builds.

That feel when you’ve stacked trash mobs and a necro fear them off in different directions.

I agree. MM necros, IMO, are not useful in dungeon, especially in boss fights. Maybe flesh golem, but everything is a waste of a utility slot. I run a Powermancer, some times a Condi necro, and I would say that they are about equal in effectiveness. HOWEVER, Condi necros are usually pointless in pug groups, even if it is just a collection of guildies and not a deliberately planned group, because other peoples conditions will overwrote yours with a lower duration and damage Condi. That’s why I have started running Powermancer which I find not only easier to play, but more effective in more situations.

I’ve been running pure conditionmancer for most dungeons and high level fracs. Not all of us have completely abandoned it, and there are times when conditions with Epidemic can even outshine Zerker Wars. (40+ Fracs in Ascalon Frac particulary comes to mind)

I am in the process of collecting gear to try out a Hybridmancer though because:
1. If anyone else is running bleed/poison on your team your own DPS is lowered and you are less useful
2. At max, in single target fights, especially bosses, bleeds max out at 3000-3500 dps and torment can be unwieldy. It’s depressing when you see just about any other class doing at least twice as much damage as you.

Dems my thoughts

MikeThePsucho.5172:

I’ve been running pure conditionmancer for most dungeons and high level fracs. Not all of us have completely abandoned it, and there are times when conditions with Epidemic can even outshine Zerker Wars. (40+ Fracs in Ascalon Frac particulary comes to mind)

I am in the process of collecting gear to try out a Hybridmancer though because:
1. If anyone else is running bleed/poison on your team your own DPS is lowered and you are less useful
2. At max, in single target fights, especially bosses, bleeds max out at 3000-3500 dps and torment can be unwieldy. It’s depressing when you see just about any other class doing at least twice as much damage as you.

Dems my thoughts

I have tried out hybridmancer and it works really well for fractals, since, unlike in regular dungeons, trash mobs are actually a problem instead of punching bags. It also has very high life force generation.