It honestly shocks me you feel this class is underperforming. I have several issues to cover so first I’ll start with bug fixes.
It should be noted that Anet has reliably given us a patch every WEEK. In my years of playing MMO’s I have never seen a free to play company offer a patch a week. Even when Final Fantasy XIV crashed and burned and they vowed to fix the game they only offered content change every month. In one week it may not seem like they made alot of changes but if you look through the whole month its not too shabby. Just let them work and they will get to all the bugs. Just because your priority of bugs differs from theirs doesn’t make them anymore or less wrong. They started fixed bugs that let you cast without line of sight or even facing the target. That seems pretty important to me, a bug like that could be exploited to soloing just about anything not ranged in PvE. Just keep calm and chive on. They will get to all the bugs. Its a weekly update, not a monthly one so don’t feel overwhelmed if they didn’t fix it this week. I personally believe the class is already fine and I think areanet agrees with me.
Second is the sPvp/tPvp. Yes my signature says my necromancer is only level 40, after you get your first character to 80 there isn’t too much motivation to get another one to 80. I am also rank 29 in sPvp and roughly 50% of my games are necromancer so I do in fact know the necromancer. I read a lot of complaints on how a necromancer cannot do anything better than anyone else. This is such a boring vague complaint and it’s also very incorrect. In my experience in tPvp there isn’t anyone who can hold a point better than a bunker necromancer. People argue guardian is better at it and I can respect their arguments because guardian is very good at it. There are also more guardians than necromancers but in my opinion nothing can beat a bunker necromancer. It takes 2-3 players to take one down and if they do use 2 or 3 players then they are expending too many resources for a single point. Also keep in mind a necromancer should beat a guardian 9 times out of 10. We have so many skills to counter everything they do. Currently they rely on ‘walls’ and boons to bunker. We counter boons and walls don’t really effect the ranged. tPvP is all about the bunkers in this current meta. It will change, it use to be bursting thieves and mesmers, then it went to bunker guardians and now I believe the meta is moving to bunker necromancers.
The next complaint I hear a lot is there is no versatility in effective builds. I believe we have three really effective builds that I personally have found. The conditionmancer, we can apply soooo many bleeds so quickly. We can turn their boons to conditions, we can turn our conditions to their conditions. Rangers may do it faster, but we can throw whatever ranger gave us right back at them. After the shortbow nerf I’m not even certain rangers can apply bleeds faster anymore. The bunker build, I explained this a bit above. Our wells provide 5 seconds of blind, 15 seconds of protection, condition removal, boon removal, we have two life bars, several fears, chill. We are one annoying class to take down. And the death shroud power build. Utilizing axe and staff to build death shroud quickly and building into precision and crit damage our death shroud’s auto attack can easily hit 3-4k. If we go into lich form just look out. When comparing to other MMO’s most classes in pvp never have more than 2 effective builds. I’m still discovering new builds and I’ve personally used all three of these in tPvP and sPvp and they work great. When comparing to other classes in GW2 well just look at warrior. If they don’t use a rifle or a greatsword in one of their weapons they are kittening themselves. Guardians maybe have two, bunker and hammer. Elementalist really only have one effective pvp build. Engineers are…. complicated to put it nicely. Thieves really only have one now, backstab. Rangers have to use shortbow to be useful in pvp. We are not as limited compared to others as you think.
Now lets talk about WvWvW. I believe necromancer really shines in WvWvW. We have access to so many AoE and in my opinion thats all WvWvW really is. Throw down your marks, throw down your wells transform to lich form or death shroud, hit 4 and that’s about it. We have pretty decent 1v1 ability but not the best. Until they implement dueling I don’t think 1v1 is important, considering every pvp event in this game is team based I don’t think you should 1v1 unless you are confident in your abilities (as I am with mine). I’m not really sure how you can argue necromancers aren’t good in WvWvW. We certainly don’t have it the worst. Look at thieves.
Now lets talk about PvE. Dungeons, we have so many combo fields without sacrificing any damage at all. Combo fields are what make classes good in dungeons (and finishers). Dungeons aren’t really hard to begin with, unless you pug poor players. We have extensive range to stay out of danger. We have a lot of survivability. A lot of condition control on allies and enemies. We are very useful for dungeons. Soloing in PvE, well I haven’t reached 80 yet but I do play with necromancers. Wells and Power or conditions and epidemic take down a lot of enemies at once. We can’t kill 1 enemy as fast as a warrior, thief or guardian, but we can kill 6 enemies at once faster and safer.
All in all, I think necromancer is fine in every aspect of the game. Yes we have bugs, every class has bugs. Just be patient and the bugs will go away. Enjoy what you do have, a amazing class.
A good thing to do to improve your own skill is to not assume the class is broken but assume your own skill is lacking. Even if its not true, believe it is. This will help you play better and learn more. Going from a elementalist to a necromancer really made me a better player.
(edited by Wulfrim.4793)
+1 finally another necromancer that knows how 2 play his class
I am only really sad about is minion not being good minions. I did not want to play as a condition mancer or a slightly near unkillable clothie but a bloody minion master. Now besides wells having really long reuse times i am happy with those and with conditions skills i am even content but its not what I wanted. I am just stuck with playing a condition mancer since i do not like bunker builds they are boring to play atleast for me.
Besides tons of bugs to be fixed I would love for them to fix minions, most times they sit there, or attack targets I dont care about, or just die super easy because they dont get out of aoes. The aoe dodge programming might actually be very hard to fix so a flat out reduction damage would go a long way or a ton more hp. Next give us a attack this target button which would help at least focus damage on a target. Also make it so they can hit moving targets so they cant be just kited all day like with how I kite ranger pets, actually fix them both so this doesn’t happen.
Necro is fine, it is the minions that need work.
I am only really sad about is minion not being good minions. I did not want to play as a condition mancer or a slightly near unkillable clothie but a bloody minion master. Now besides wells having really long reuse times i am happy with those and with conditions skills i am even content but its not what I wanted. I am just stuck with playing a condition mancer since i do not like bunker builds they are boring to play atleast for me.
Besides tons of bugs to be fixed I would love for them to fix minions, most times they sit there, or attack targets I dont care about, or just die super easy because they dont get out of aoes. The aoe dodge programming might actually be very hard to fix so a flat out reduction damage would go a long way or a ton more hp. Next give us a attack this target button which would help at least focus damage on a target. Also make it so they can hit moving targets so they cant be just kited all day like with how I kite ranger pets, actually fix them both so this doesn’t happen.
In what game are minions viable in pvp or wvw mechanics?
WoW – Warlock pet was decent, but not really game breaking and easily handled.
FF11 – Puppetmaster and beastmaster pets really hurt the group and were useless in ballista.
EQ – There was no necromancer, necromancer’s pet was the class.
GW1 – Pet builds didn’t really work in WvW or pvp.
Rift – I’m honestly trying to remember if necromancers got pets, I know they were really bad in any sort of end game enviornment when I played (back when they first released the second raid)
Warhammer – White Lion pets really hurt the class, when they gave the white lion a ability to get rid of it for a buff white lion got better. Squig herder pets were laughable.
Diablo 2 – Not a MMO, so don’t bring it up haha but even so the only pets that were good were the ones you would copy the monster you killed and even they were bad in ubers.
Diablo 3 – Witch doctor pets were extremely bad, you couldn’t even beat nightmare mode with them.
In all MMO history, for the exception of everquest but it came at a big price, minions have never really been good for anything but leveling up and the minions necromancer has in this game are still good for leveling up. I don’t prefer that method but it still works.
I feel like I’m forgetting a really important MMO….. something that had a summoning points system.
Asking for a pet’s AI to be on par with a human’s intelligence is asking for too much. (Even the stupid humans)
Edit: Age of Conan was the MMO I was forgetting, their pets were really good for leveling up but in Pvp they were horrible
(edited by Wulfrim.4793)
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/To-the-negative-necromancers/447373
Ok, you are correct for the pvp part since any smart player will normally kill the necro or summoner but this meant was for pve mostly. I guess I am still in love from my necro in guild wars 1 how they worked.. I also loved necros from 1 how they work in the pve setup so much, i liked they had a natural health degrade I could heal up or let minions die. I could even just have all bone minions if i wanted, i just had to wait for a recast and hope a corpse was around. I could also tell them to attack what I wanted which was great. So many things i miss from one with my necro.
well, if you say that an axe is better than a dagger in terms of a power build, I’ve been doing something wrong in the last 150 hours.
well, if you say that an axe is better than a dagger in terms of a power build, I’ve been doing something wrong in the last 150 hours.
The auto attack on dagger is more powerful than axe but I don’t plan on ever following someone around and auto attacking them. Axe 2 and 3 are infinitely better than dagger 2 and 3. In a power build I utilize my damage from death shroud. Its not a emergency button, its a “I win” button. I usually just engage with staff, 2, 3, 4 combo to build life force, switch to axe, 2, 3, 4, 5 combo for more life force, retaliation, condition transfer, cripple, blind, weakness, bleeding then switch to death shroud for the auto attack and 2 and 3. Then use 4 when I’m at 70% life force.
Does this thread meet the quota for the week? Can we go back to being realistic?
Explain to me why necromancer is bad rather than making generic pointless statements?
Is it not what you envisioned when you picked necromancer? Create a new MMO and make a necromancer however you want.
Do you get beat up a lot in pvp? Clearly I don’t, nor do countless people in youtube videos filming full matches. Must be the class right?
I found the axe much better then the dagger for my style of play. Being able to hang back a bit yet still deal decent damage is handy, combine that with the AOE cripple of #3 that also grants retaliation and it becomes easier to keep that distance. I was off handing dagger for the blind, which was part of my old build, but now switch between warhorn for the CC and mobility or focus for the chill and extra vulnerability.
I tend to agree with you Wulfrim, but I also agree with those who find the minions disappointing. GW2 was, after all, supposed to be the next generation of MMO. Why couldn’t minions be useful in the next generation? Really I don’t even think they are even all that bad. They just need some AoE resistance and/or an attack and move button. If I can move them out of AoE and focus them on a target then minions suddenly survive a lot more and deal good damage in PvP. Also the Shadow Fiend bugs me. I don’t understand the use of Haunt. It’s too slow to be an interrupt on most things, so why block a single random attack? Just as a gap closer? So it gets there alone and dies. Great.
But anyway, I do agree that the main issue isn’t the class but the forum community. Fortunately, the forums represent only a small collection of the playerbase. I don’t think the majority of players see a problem with the Necromancer because I keep seeing more and more Necromancers every day. I’m also not surprised that we weren’t high on the priority list for bug fixes. All the broken events probably took a lot of time to fix, and we had at least one working PvP build. It was probably decided we could deal with it until bug fixes came along and I don’t disagree with that opinion.
I agree that necromancer is not that bad, but I feel like wells are too important right now. They seem mandatory in wvw as a huge aoe asset, mandatory in a bunker build you mentioned and even for a power build well of suffering is really needed if you want some aoe damage because life transfer is not really enough. Overall I’m quite happy with my necro – I’m having fun and just hoping to find a build that suits me.
Sorry but is this pvp game or pve game because if fixing events is more important than fixing pvp then i bought wrong game
Wells are very important, but all classes have that.
In my opinion thieves need that signet that adds run speed and dagger.
Warriors need endure pain.
Elementalists need cantrips
Guardians need shouts
Engineers need elixirs
Rangers need shortbow
Sorry but is this pvp game or pve game because if fixing events is more important than fixing pvp then i bought wrong game
Where did they say this was a pvp exclusive game? GW1 is and they said it was. This game I almost remember them saying this was both, hence the massive world map, the dynamic events, the dungeons, the 80 levels.
There’s actually quite a bit more effective builds! I’m quite fond of a healing tank minion master build I run in WvW (Kind of like that deathshroud power build you mentioned in all honesty. Also charr necro deathshrouding in WuvWuvWuv is an excellent linebreaker!)
As well as the pseudo theif vampiric build (Great for condition eating)! They are really handy especially if you take a general vitality power build and give em daggers (y’know, like they hint at >.>) and get them to go speed take yaks and sentries and hell even one versus one lone stragglers in wvw. Also an excellent build if you’re going into TA. However that being saaaaaid it also requires more mobility than say, a MM or Conditionmancer. So much more fun though!
I will say though that while those builds are great I hope that eventually they allow vampirism to be affected by healpower x3.
Oh yes! and you can be quite the healer with a mark/wellcaster necro! (well you can be a great healer anyway if you know how to play your class and are geared right xP)
I’m honestly looking for a wellcaster to go running with in a party full of diff specced necros!
Necromancer has so many different ways to be played, I would honestly say explore the class and not just worry if it works x way or y way. Just pick your favorite archetype, build about it, and learn how you play. That honestly is the best way to find your niche and role in the game/party/zerg/geurilla wuvwuv ops.
There’s actually quite a bit more effective builds! I’m quite fond of a healing tank minion master build I run in WvW (Kind of like that deathshroud power build you mentioned in all honesty. Also charr necro deathshrouding in WuvWuvWuv is an excellent linebreaker!)
As well as the pseudo theif vampiric build (Great for condition eating)! They are really handy especially if you take a general vitality power build and give em daggers (y’know, like they hint at >.>) and get them to go speed take yaks and sentries and hell even one versus one lone stragglers in wvw. Also an excellent build if you’re going into TA. However that being saaaaaid it also requires more mobility than say, a MM or Conditionmancer. So much more fun though!
I will say though that while those builds are great I hope that eventually they allow vampirism to be affected by healpower x3.
Oh yes! and you can be quite the healer with a mark/wellcaster necro! (well you can be a great healer anyway if you know how to play your class and are geared right xP)
I’m honestly looking for a wellcaster to go running with in a party full of diff specced necros!
In my post the builds comment was directed at sPvp and tPvp and I also mentioned I just wrote the builds I have personally tried and deemed effective in competitive enviornments. I will say this, I will never deem a minion master build effective in a competitive enviornment unless A. the necromancer can summon such a overwhelming army you can’t target him or B. the minions become so powerful they do more damage than the necromancer itself and can’t be killed.
I’d probably disagree with you on a few points and discuss it back and forth, but judging by the way you’ve pigeonholed arguments against others thus far, I’m not interested in the back and forth part. I’ll say my piece and be on my way. I’ve never thought Necromancers were terrible, but there are a lot of parts to the class that either only work in PvP or don’t work very well at all relative to other classes. Sure, you can say that’s true of any class (even though for many classes it’s not), but it shouldn’t be. Build limitations are what make a class boring very fast for PvE players. And, as far as sPvP goes, in many instances teams would be better served by another class and most cases where that isn’t true is because of player skill.
P.S. Lots of things not working as intended (ie. trait bugs) also limits the class, and makes it seem a lot worse than it actually will be once they’re fixed.
In my opinion there are not a limited amount of builds in PvE. PvE content is so easy that you can play with just about any build. If you are a elitest like myself there are builds that far surpass others and there always will be. That doesn’t mean other builds aren’t effective. I can easily do end game content with minions, and finish the end game content. I just contribute more to the team if I don’t use minions. In order to make every build viable end game content would have to be dumbed down and weakened to a pre-school level. Non-dungeon end game is nothing but a zerg fest so any build works and your contribution really doens’t matter as most people just use auto attacks anyway.
Amen,
Picked up necro for the second time not long ago. (First time I played it wrong, and didn’t give it a chance to start picking up utility skills). I am an alto-holic as one of my friends like to refer it as so I’ve switched a lot. Still yet to get one to 80.
Maybe I just haven’t run into that wall of omg I die to everything (quit my mesmer because of how lackluster it is in PvE), so far I end most of my fights at full health, I’ve safely pulled groups of 8 mobs and trashed them (still at full health or close to it), I am an annoying pain in PvP running with smaller raiding parties (Plague form Roflcopter 20 second blind spam is game over for anyone who can’t build distance without at the same time needing to hit something) and I can keep regen up on all my allies without needing to even trait for it (well of blood equally epic for keeping small parties going).
Our down state yeah, it is pretty horrible in pvp enviroment… but is probably my favorite pve for the 1 skill alone. You can get back on your feet pretty easy all the while actually contributing to damage.
Yeah we are bugged, most of the traits I am going to pick up are currently bugged. But you know what. I am going to equip them anyways. If I can cope and wreck things with bugged traits, I am only going to be just that much more epic when they are fixed.
Necro is anything but unplayable. Even minions, as bugged as they are, can’t be that bad. Because majority of the necros I meet are running them (granted it is pve alone).
I am fairly 98.7 certain this will be the class I lvl 80 first as main. It is fun, and the play isn’t diluted to 3 or 4 buttons. As a whole, necro is a win class for me.
problem of Necros arent WvW or PvE. for PvE any build is viable for Necros, PvE is easy even dungeon explorable so far all have are easy (CM / AC / TA).
problem of Necros is tournaments (not random sPvP where almost anything work special burst classes to win glory/rank very fast), nope, on tournaments we have one good build (not great because of bugs…) and thats it, if you want a burst Necro pick another class because is much better, if you want a point defender pick another class because exist better.
dont exist better bunker than a necro? lool
@possante
Would you care to explain your argument in a logical and thought out method – preferably one that does not include the “lolnecrosux” attitude? Such an obvious disdain for the class devalues your argument and takes away any power it may have had otherwise.
I don’t see how you think Necro isn’t one of the best classes to turn into a bunker. We are in the highest tier for base health, have a heal that removes our conditions and heals extra for each one (which also happens to have a small cd of 25 sec), have a number of ways to transfer conditions our enemy puts on us back to them, AoE blinds, a trait that lets our already powerful wells give us 15 seconds of protection, a second life bar (which comes with a free interrupt), and lots of chill and weakness. That all comes together to make a pretty good bunker, and doesn’t even consider Lich Form or Plague form which both have good bunker abilities. What profession are you suggesting is universally better than that?
I don’t believe you are a competitive player at all possante. Not even for a instant.
Necromancer have two extremely effective builds in tPvp and one decent build.
Both conditionmancer and bunker build are AMAZING as a necromancer.
What do guardians use as a bunker build? Boons, protection and retaliation to be more specific. Walls. Knockdowns. Knockbacks. Heals.
What do necromancers use as a bunker build? Anti-Boons, protection, life force, chill, fear, Anti-conditions, blind, heals.
The bunker necromancer is the anti-bunker guardian. If you don’t know that you don’t tpvp. A bunker necromancer effectively has three health bars. One for death shrouding right away, one his actual health bar and one for a second death shroud. When he elites theres no way a melee can kill him with blind spam and hes not considered immortal so you still can cap points in cloud form. In ranged theres no way a condition build can kill a necromancer, a necromancer has THREE ways to transfer conditions. Not REMOVE them but TRANSFER them. Condition builds are vast because its the easiest way to take down a bunker guardian.
FF11 – Puppetmaster and beastmaster pets really hurt the group and were useless in ballista.
Not true at all, have you even played FF11? I was a beastmaster main in it since 2004 to this day, and I promise that pets were amazing in parties ever since the 2006 patch.
Also, this is Guild Wars 2, why are you comparing it to other games like that. It doesn’t need to follow their guidelines lol.
- Minion AI is broken, what makes many traits unreliable
- Other specs isnt viable (Like Axe or Vampiric / Life Leech based)
- Staff Autoattack isnt even used cus its too slow
- Traits like Gluttony that affect our survival at all are broken
- Lack of some Stability skill (Soul Reaping Trait gives u 3 sec, but u cant even use it if u r stunned or dazed. Is more like a certainly stomp move than a anti CC skill)
- DS fills slowly
- Fear should be an unique mechanic of the profession, or at least that works better with us, and isnt this what we see. Our fear is more like an interrupt than a pusher
Its just some problems that we see with Necro. I dont wanna excessive changes, but would be great of seeing that we have people working to polish us. Only my opinion.
The only role a necro is really good at in structured PvP is as bunker assist, as for the rest, being good against guardians is not enough (unless you going up against a very guardian heavy team).
As a bunker, it is too gimmicky relying on a 3 min cooldown, outside of which it is inferior to other bunker classes.
(edited by Sylosi.6503)
@Odeken up until like 2008 pets hindered the experience in parties. After like 2008 even a beastmaster + jug pet wouldn’t do more damage than a class designed to do dmg. That class changing based on what year, at one point it was dragoons, another samurai, another black mage, another summoner, you get the point.
In ballista the only useful pet was a tiger and there was only one tiger jug at the time, the level 28 one. I was on the team that won the ballista tournament for sylph and represented the team in world pvp, Anyway out of topic, people are acting like these things don’t ever happen in MMOs and areanet is making these problems. These issues have existed in plenty of MMO’s hence why I referenced them.
@Schnitter, you can activate DS if you are stunned or daze and you can drop DS cooldown to 6 seconds. Thats 3 seconds of stability every 6 seconds, pretty awesome to me.
DS does not fill slowly. You just have to spec toward it.
With all the condition duration we can easily make our fears 3 seconds.
@Schnitter, you can activate DS if you are stunned or daze and you can drop DS cooldown to 6 seconds. Thats 3 seconds of stability every 6 seconds, pretty awesome to me.
DS does not fill slowly. You just have to spec toward it.
With all the condition duration we can easily make our fears 3 seconds.
No, you cant… If you could activate your Death Shroud while Stunned it would be a break stun, what it isnt. And yes, it fills slow. You sometimes cant realize cause in a team fight you gain some life force each time someone is stomped, what make this not so visible. Besides this, when you are bunkering or anti bunkering your only life force source are some utilities (Spectral Grasp and Necrotic Transversal, both 10% LF and Signet of Undeath that is unprofitable) and Traits, but since Gluttony doesnt work and Reaper’s Precision has a low chance to activate to give you a low LF value, your only reliable LF source trait is Soul Marks, that gives you 3% for each triggered mark.
About the Fear, to make it you should go for a specific Rune (Rune of Necromancer) and a specific Trait that increases your fear duration. All this for just increases fear? No, thanks.
The only time it fills slow is if you are a conditionmancer. Every other build it fills quickly. If you are a conditionmancer I recommend grabbing spectral armor as your third skill TO fill it up. It fills up fast enough that in a 1v1 if you DS right away, you will have a full bar before the fights over (after it wears off)
Please post a video showing you with a power/crit necro against a competent team in tPvP.
slow down Wulfrim
dont give these horribad players too much info.
let them be what they are supposed to be.
Wulfrim while I believe you are a above average Spvp/ Tpvp necro, I don’t think you are experienced in WvW as much as you are in other areas. Yes being a tankier and bunker necro works wonders in that arena point style match pvp. Outside of that , I cannot think of a time when being a tank necro is useful.
In pve dungeons? Not really everyone should be dodging and healing themselves. If you are in a dungeon where you need to be a tank necro , your team members are lazy.
Overall the necro class IS littered with bugs. Deathshroud IS a mechanic we are built around yet it does not compliment a lot of necro abilities ( conditionmancers in particular) . Yes while you may be having a great time and doing well, I would still like to see Anet devs work hard on this class and through fixing bugs and tweaking certain skills ( like the way BIP got tweaked) we can arrive eventually with a necro class that works well on ALL fronts. Not just bunkering down in spvp and tpvp.
TLDR: Im glad you are doing well, I still hope Anet puts a lot more work into necros however.
Happy Tuesday,
Madame Moorshade Teknomancer
Honestly, necros seem able to do quite a variety of things right. I’ve just started one (20) and I gotta say it’s rather rewarding to fend off multiple waves with cripples, chills, conditions, etc. I’ve heard that minions need some love, and I’ll agree. But necros are kinda awesome. I can’t wait until I unlock more utilities, elites, and traits.
It’s kind of a breath of fresh (necrotic) air from my Ranger.
I really want to know where this 15s of Protection for Wells is coming from. Last I tried Ritual of Protection, it was only 3s when you placed your well down. If I can get 15s from Wells, I’d be all over it. Using greater marks atm instead.
I think Necros are fine, they perform mechanically a bit inferior to some others due to both bugs and how they were designed. Not managing LF and popping CDs at ill opportune moments is also severely punishing.
That being said, the biggest disadvantage I have on my necro in tournies is neutralizing control points. The displacement from fear isn’t always enough to inch them off like a Overcharged > Net shot combo and Big o’ Bomb or simply Banish > Immobilize > Ring of Warding. Since the necro also lacks interrupt effects relative to most other classes, you can’t interrupt everything you’d want and thus have to pick very closely.
I also feel that Necros are harder to “slot-in” if you will than other classes for tourny set ups. They simply work better if at least one or two of the members tailor their specs a smidgen more to work with the Necro. Mesmers and Guards? Pretty self sufficient and easily adds on to any team.
My current tPvP spec(copy and paste url): http://www.intothemists.com/calc/?build=V-_-34;1IFC004wJkJ0;9;5TJJ;212A17-27;2T;078;1dZm9fJG49cJ
(edited by Lumines.3916)
^
im not him i dont know exactly how he does
it’s around 5 sec actually and u can probably run over it twice. that could count at 10 sec
and with some Rune protection and Boon duration you can probably go somewhere.
To be a good pvper it’s not just build and trailt. Gears and runes should match what you are playing .
Wulfrim, I agree with you so hard I think I pulled my agreeing muscle.
I don’t believe you are a competitive player at all possante. Not even for a instant.
Necromancer have two extremely effective builds in tPvp and one decent build.
Both conditionmancer and bunker build are AMAZING as a necromancer.
What do guardians use as a bunker build? Boons, protection and retaliation to be more specific. Walls. Knockdowns. Knockbacks. Heals.
What do necromancers use as a bunker build? Anti-Boons, protection, life force, chill, fear, Anti-conditions, blind, heals.
The bunker necromancer is the anti-bunker guardian. If you don’t know that you don’t tpvp. A bunker necromancer effectively has three health bars. One for death shrouding right away, one his actual health bar and one for a second death shroud. When he elites theres no way a melee can kill him with blind spam and hes not considered immortal so you still can cap points in cloud form. In ranged theres no way a condition build can kill a necromancer, a necromancer has THREE ways to transfer conditions. Not REMOVE them but TRANSFER them. Condition builds are vast because its the easiest way to take down a bunker guardian.
Not everyone plays this game to tpvp, unlike you, our world doesn’t revolve around gw2 tpvp. There are many other facets to this game that have to be considered when balancing a profession. And in some regards our class is lacking in other aspects of the game.
It’s 3s by default, you get 4.2s of it with +40% boon/prot duration if you use Rune of the Earth with 20% from traits. Not sure how you’re getting more of it by running over it again, that’s never worked for me.
To be on par, Necros need numerous bug fixes and a couple quality of life buffs
@wulfrim also gotta agree with this. other then the bugs and the minions ai system i think necros are actually very strong class. some dude on my older post said that he thought i was lieing when i said i can take on 2-3 people in my minion build. necros has so much heals/vit/ds+minions its not even funny. i even think that necros can be better point holders then guardians cause of the fact that we can hold our own or until friendlies arives to assist. meh guess some people just want to play a game that requires no skills just press 1 button and u die. aka warriors lol
Wulfrim, thanks for the rundown on the necromancer. Could you link to your builds for conditionmancer/bunker/power?
#@Schnitter, you can activate DS if you are stunned or daze and you can drop DS cooldown to 6 seconds. Thats 3 seconds of stability every 6 seconds, pretty awesome to me.
DS does not fill slowly. You just have to spec toward it.
With all the condition duration we can easily make our fears 3 seconds."
this is the reason i dont care much about post like this. not just exagerated somethig we cant have but even go more forward and say is something easy to have.
please explain me how can Necros have a 3s fear. 30 spite + 6 rune necro + master terror dont turn our fear on 3s, beside is not EASY since you need invest in lot of things to increase fear to 2s (not 3s)
so we have a profession mechanism that is only great when invest heavy on it (30 curses ) and that its ok for you? or a mechanism that benefict more power/hybrid build and is almost useless (in terms of offensive) to condition build? need to be melee to use weakening shroud, dark path put you on melee range, melee range is where conditions necros dont want be for option.
well, if you say that an axe is better than a dagger in terms of a power build, I’ve been doing something wrong in the last 150 hours.
The auto attack on dagger is more powerful than axe but I don’t plan on ever following someone around and auto attacking them. Axe 2 and 3 are infinitely better than dagger 2 and 3. In a power build I utilize my damage from death shroud. Its not a emergency button, its a “I win” button. I usually just engage with staff, 2, 3, 4 combo to build life force, switch to axe, 2, 3, 4, 5 combo for more life force, retaliation, condition transfer, cripple, blind, weakness, bleeding then switch to death shroud for the auto attack and 2 and 3. Then use 4 when I’m at 70% life force.
I agree with you after some messing around in spvp about how you manage to land more hits and more reliably with axes, however the fact that the autoattack is pitiful and the fact that enemies will re-engage you is assured so I’m sitting on the line between dagger and axe. With dagger, DS and wells, if I can pin them with warhorn 4 and then they remove CC then with dagger 3 since they can’t remove it I can land a ton of hurt. I’ll do some more experimenting and come back to you.
well, if you say that an axe is better than a dagger in terms of a power build, I’ve been doing something wrong in the last 150 hours.
The auto attack on dagger is more powerful than axe but I don’t plan on ever following someone around and auto attacking them. Axe 2 and 3 are infinitely better than dagger 2 and 3. In a power build I utilize my damage from death shroud. Its not a emergency button, its a “I win” button. I usually just engage with staff, 2, 3, 4 combo to build life force, switch to axe, 2, 3, 4, 5 combo for more life force, retaliation, condition transfer, cripple, blind, weakness, bleeding then switch to death shroud for the auto attack and 2 and 3. Then use 4 when I’m at 70% life force.
I agree with you after some messing around in spvp about how you manage to land more hits and more reliably with axes, however the fact that the autoattack is pitiful and the fact that enemies will re-engage you is assured so I’m sitting on the line between dagger and axe. With dagger, DS and wells, if I can pin them with warhorn 4 and then they remove CC then with dagger 3 since they can’t remove it I can land a ton of hurt. I’ll do some more experimenting and come back to you.
I disagree with the general opinion that the auto attack is horrible. Maybe if you only use the auto attack and don’t both using the other skills. In my experience with WvW axe is infinitely better than dagger.
Of course I also think condition Necros are silly for building entirely around condition damage and expecting it to work really well all the time, so maybe I’m just crazy.
@Schnitter, you can activate DS if you are stunned or daze and you can drop DS cooldown to 6 seconds. Thats 3 seconds of stability every 6 seconds, pretty awesome to me.
I may be just about to make myself look rather stupid (but then I am not well known for my observation skills) but how are you getting DS cooldown down to 6 seconds?
I haven’t played my necro for a while (I went the opposite way to you, from necro to elementalist) so I may have missed it, but the only skill I saw that effected DS cooldown was the grandmaster SR trait.
There isnt an official way to get it to 6 seconds, you can either get the 50% reduction trait to get it to 5seconds (but you can’t have that as well as the stability)
-or-
The only way I can think of is: use DS at a low LF amount get the stability, run out of LF and get kicked out of DS (you don’t get a 10 second cool down if you exit DF via running out of LF). Then gain LF very quickly you can technically jump back into DS and get more stability (if there is not a cool down on the trait proc)
I will concede that necro is not as bad as people make it out to be. But it’s a pain in the butt to play with all the bugs and you do you have to try a lot harder than with other classes.
I’m pretty sure necro is the buggiest class (that I’ve played so far anyways). My guardian has few problems so far and pet AI on the hunter is a breath of fresh air after dealing with my inactive Flesh Golem that refuses to hit anything. A lot of things just don’t work as advertised, or maybe the tooltips are just that misleading. Maybe the write-up for Flesh Golem was meant to say “Acts as a cool looking statue”. But I have to laugh when people say things like “only the minion AI needs work”. If you think re-writing AI is simple and will happen soon good on you, I’m a little more pessimistic because it really isn’t as easy as one might think.
if u go over every class section, u will see all of them have bugs and necro is not the most one.
u just live with it or quit . that’s it
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