Guild Wars 2

Necros got the hightest vitality ( DS ) and the highest toughness ( protection of the horde > 120 + Dark Armor > 400 ) > We are the best tankers

Not sure if serious…

..Or just trolling…

And then he got hit by static field and hammer warrior.

The Demonic Spirit.3157:

Necros got the hightest vitality ( DS ) and the highest toughness ( protection of the horde > 120 + Dark Armor > 400 ) > We are the best tankers

I do not use either protection of the horde or dark armor and still have over 1950 toughness and 3000 armor. The build I utilize tanks very well in WvW frontline zerging.

grave of hearts.7830:

And then he got hit by static field and hammer warrior.

I use Melandru runes and reduced conditions food. While static field can be problematic…for anyone, be assured that hammer warrior is not going to take away my 29K health in plague form, to boot, that warrior is about good as dead because the frontliners following me will decimate that warrior as I blind and chill him/her.

psygate.5632:

..Or just trolling…

My topic is a reminder to the whiners and complainers who say that necros are weak!

psygate.5632:

..Or just trolling…

This is insane troll logic.

Warrior effective base health: 21284
Necromancer effective base health: 18372
Engineer effective base health: 16265
Ranger effective base health: 16265
Mesmer effective base health: 15082
Guardian effective base health: 12518
Thief effective base health: 11652
Elementalist effective base health: 10805

As for “best tankers” were far from.

Ascii.9726:

Warrior effective base health: 21284
Necromancer effective base health: 18372
Engineer effective base health: 16265
Ranger effective base health: 16265
Mesmer effective base health: 15082
Guardian effective base health: 12518
Thief effective base health: 11652
Elementalist effective base health: 10805

As for “best tankers” were far from.

I believe the OP was including the 2nd health bar we get from DS. Essentially giving us 36,744hp.

Seras.5702:

I believe the OP was including the 2nd health bar we get from DS. Essentially giving us 36,744hp.

Deathshroud scales with 60% base health, not 100%. Deathshroud health would be 11,023 for a total of 29,395.

Ascii.9726:

Seras.5702:

I believe the OP was including the 2nd health bar we get from DS. Essentially giving us 36,744hp.

Deathshroud scales with 60% base health, not 100%. Deathshroud health would be 11,023 for a total of 29,395.

I had it in my head that they updated that recently to now be 100% but I can’t find it in the patch notes. In any case, if it is 60% you can get an additional 30% by speccing fully into Soul Reaping. Even without the trait points we’ve still got a lot of effective health.

They increased the damage reduction we receive whilst in Deathshroud, so what it previously was in % would seem to be 100% now but in terms of scaling there was no change.

Its also not 90% (60% base with 30% traits) its 30% of the 60% base, so +18% for a max boost of 78% base health.

Deathshroud HP = (Max Health * 0.6) * 1.XY
(Were XY is equal to your Soul Reaping points, for example 30)

BillFreist.1527:

So a few things about the latest DS changes:

1. Death Shroud incoming damage
   • You now take the correct amount of incoming damage. Before this change (and it wasn’t always like this, either) you would takes the same damage twice.
   • Your Life Force pool is still the same as it has always been. 60% of your maximum health while alive, plus an additional 0-30% of that base value for Traits, meaning you can have a maximum of 78% of your max health.

So at best it would be 14,330 for a max base effective health of 32,702.

DS is 117~119% hp, tested way back when they said “DS got fixed guys, we promise”, because the combat log and it taking more condition damage to remove more than 1% lf pre tick than it used to is no indication whatsoever that instead of sticking to one side of the line (DS being a transformation with its own armor and toughness bonus/negative or a weapon swap/just new skills on a set hp bar that uses identical defensive values as the player), they just doubled the hp.

I’m quoting a dev directly after the Deathshroud change, unless there wrong.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/DeathShroud-is-now-base-100-HP/first#post2539415

Players may have ‘tested’ what it could be but noone has come up with either an exact formula or accurate enough guesses between the testers. Some have tested and said its 90-100% others say 120%+.

Ascii.9726:

I’m quoting a dev directly after the Deathshroud change, unless there wrong.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/DeathShroud-is-now-base-100-HP/first#post2539415

Im sorry but are you taking the word of the devs (the ones that at least post about bugs on the forums) that said Necro downed hp is ok, Blood well isnt healing the enemy, engie kits work with sigils and that whirlwind/line damage abilities cannot hit a single enemy multiple times?

Ascii.9726:

Players may have ‘tested’ what it could be but noone has come up with either an exact formula or accurate enough guesses between the testers. Some have tested and said its 90-100% others say 120%+.

You’ll be able to put the argument to rest after the next major patch, when Necro DS (allegedly) finally displays a % by default, and an actual real number when you mouse over.

Dand.8231:

You’ll be able to put the argument to rest after the next major patch, when Necro DS (allegedly) finally displays a % by default, and an actual real number when you mouse over.

With any luck, should be a decent and much needed change IMO.

I think someone forgot that necromancers use light armor and take like 50% more damage per hit by default than let’s say warrior, have little to no access to protection/evade/block and are somewhat vulnerable to stun etc. Not to mention while in DS your defense is near to nothing.

You can make something like pvt minion master “tank” ok, but other than that it’s pretty ridiculous.

My feeling is that DS “extra hp” doesn’t scale well for builds which don’t especially focus on having a ton of armor/hp/defensive cc etc. Also DS still has that huge problem of not getting back after it got bursted down by some random spike you just couldn’t evade. Not even getting to the conditions going through DS part. It’s so sad.

EHP is not comparable to anything since in this game you can and should evade damage completely at first place. Having a lot of EHP cannot compete with evading all the damage in any way, not even near.

We were suppose to be the non-escape, pure attrition class. When we get in a fight, we win, or die. Or the other get’s bored N runs off.

The way that lost/most necro’s go glass cannon, stack condi & hope they die before they focus/CC/Train us prob gives the hint that… Were not ‘the’ bunker class, by a country mile. Hell even our ‘weakness’ on DS, means you got to go hug the scary thing, and it’s what 40% duration of thief’s auto-attack on weap? With a longer ICD than DS CD…

If the idea was, we magically steal life back with vamp, and have a nice big EHP… well… 25 per hit, don’t other class’s get over 200 per hit without a trait cost? (As well as 100% regen while sitting in water).

Anyway, we don’t bunker the big damage, due to lack of avoiding CC + lest dodge/block/invul of any class.
Were also behind on the small constant dam. Actually I think a Guard can remove more damage from others with protection up time, than we can remove from ourself with armor/DS/Vit. (DS also is 1% blocks, so getting hit for 1 damage still takes 1% your max life, meaning it’s not really ‘double’ our life, even excluding decay per second, and the time it takes to fill up with LifeForce)

Well said Bweaty. Somewhere in all the "balancing’ ANet seems to lost it’s way with us. Some of us actually wanted to play the attrition class they said we should be, instead they gave us burning and more condi damage?!?. I picked up my warrior the other day and with the recent changes to signet of regen he becomes a MUCH more viable “vampire” than I can ever hope to be. The trait line should currently be retitled to mosquito, because that is the extent of life siphoning we have; not to mention we are about as annoying as one when we try to actually hurt/leech something with our siphoning.

My only hope is that after a bloody year of playing this game with the oct 15th patch my necro can more than just a condi dispenser. Everyone I talk to recently tells me that YES necros are a welcome class to have around, until they hear that I am not running a condi cookie cutter build.

mobility + avoidance + invulnerability >base stats

Amusing trend I noticed as I pick up more and more Dire pieces (just got Asc Dire Scepter ps:regret this action), I’m becoming an unshakable aggro magnet

Kajin.5301:

Amusing trend I noticed as I pick up more and more Dire pieces (just got Asc Dire Scepter ps:regret this action), I’m becoming an unshakable aggro magnet

Why do you regret it? I too am getting dire pieces. I only need weapons and trinkets now, i finally got full dire with travelers for WvW roaming.

teonimesic.1403:

Kajin.5301:

Amusing trend I noticed as I pick up more and more Dire pieces (just got Asc Dire Scepter ps:regret this action), I’m becoming an unshakable aggro magnet

Why do you regret it? I too am getting dire pieces. I only need weapons and trinkets now, i finally got full dire with travelers for WvW roaming.

In PvE more toughness = more aggro.

So great for WvW where it is players, bad for PvE where everything and their brother will attack you until you die.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

So great for WvW where it is players, bad for PvE where everything and their brother will attack you until you die.

I use my WvW Guardian in PvE – he has 2411 toughness with Strength in Numbers traited. The agro is manageable in PvE.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Necromancer-Survivability-Explanation-Advice/first#post2497882

Toughness and Vitality barely mean anything.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

teonimesic.1403:

Kajin.5301:

Amusing trend I noticed as I pick up more and more Dire pieces (just got Asc Dire Scepter ps:regret this action), I’m becoming an unshakable aggro magnet

Why do you regret it? I too am getting dire pieces. I only need weapons and trinkets now, i finally got full dire with travelers for WvW roaming.

In PvE more toughness = more aggro.

So great for WvW where it is players, bad for PvE where everything and their brother will attack you until you die.

No Toughness does not equal more aggro, So many times i’ve seen people say this, yet when i play my 1700 toughness necromancer and my mate plays his engineer with like 1200 toughness he always always gets the aggro, same when he playes his ranger which has only the base stat of 916 toughness, There are a ton of factors in “aggro” and toughness is only a small bit of it.

Andele.1306:

Ascii.9726:

I’m quoting a dev directly after the Deathshroud change, unless there wrong.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/DeathShroud-is-now-base-100-HP/first#post2539415

Im sorry but are you taking the word of the devs (the ones that at least post about bugs on the forums) that said Necro downed hp is ok, Blood well isnt healing the enemy, engie kits work with sigils and that whirlwind/line damage abilities cannot hit a single enemy multiple times?

Wait, what? Blood pool is healing the enemy?

And for our survivability:
We basically have none. What on earth does it help to have 100k+ health if you get permanently cc’ed, have no way to disengage EVER, and about anything can hunt you down? Fighting with my necromancer is always a fight to the death. Either I die, or they die. But again. ANet made us attrition without any means to stand long enough to kill something. Yes. 1v1 we are pretty good. But the moment like 2 eles show up, I know it’s gg. Necromancer has no way to handle the knockdowns without investing 30 into soulreaping (if you are a condi mancer, that is just awesome. Now you can’t outdamage a warrior healing signet.)

Please ANet… Give us a way to run or to stay in a fight (and yes, I mean stability.)

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Necromancer-Survivability-Explanation-Advice/first#post2497882

Toughness and Vitality barely mean anything.

Keep believing that, please. lol

Too many instances to recall within a WvW environment to illustrate that toughness and vitality has indeed made many a necro the last man standing………

psygate.5632:

Please ANet… Give us a way to run or to stay in a fight (and yes, I mean stability.)

Anet has, it is called Melandru runes, reduced conditions food, and well of power (as limited as it may be), along with some traited limited stability. Even with only the use of Melandru runes and reduced conditions food, my frontline tank necro is rarely stunlocked/perma-CC’d.

Rigel.3092:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Necromancer-Survivability-Explanation-Advice/first#post2497882

Toughness and Vitality barely mean anything.

Keep believing that, please. lol

Too many instances to recall within a WvW environment to illustrate that toughness and vitality has indeed made many a necro the last man standing………

I said barely. It matters, ever so slightly. However, any Necro that remains alive in a zerg battle, is not alive based upon toughness/vitality. The defensive/offensive mitigation list I linked shows abilities are far stronger for survivability than raw-facetanking. As evidenced by anyone whom has spent 5 minutes playing tourneys.

WvW is a bit more reliant on base stats due the nature of zerg vs zerg. But even so ive survived plenty in zerker just by using blinds, dodges and DS. If you do get caught in an aoe blast your pretty much instagibbed without some vit or toughness though. In spvp it has a role but its not the main factor in survivability.

Thinking about it… I feel, Vit would prob be the better ‘all rounder’.

A while ago I tried to work out the ‘co-efficient’ of Tuf Vs Vit.
Back then our DS wasn’t 100% our life pool, so it got crazy. (Let alone direct damage was doing more than condi to DS)
At base level no gear/stats, vit pulled ahead, but got less effective the more you got. To each 100 vit you got, was worth ~11 tuf diff.

It’s still a very tricky one to quantify. As DeathShroud works in 1% blocks. It also ‘ticks’ over time. So rules like being hit for 1 damage is still the same as getting hit for 100, or well anything up to 0.99% your max life. (As it still eats 1% death shroud).
Then you got the decay over time on DS, the hugely different amount of life force different specs/weaps/utils make.

My feeling on Vit tho, is that it’s 100% to DeathShroud, the game is very heavy in the condi in PvP now, and skips tuf all together.
The other main problem, is, the stats on gear. I notice that, some ascended accessories have Pow/Pre/Vit/Crit Dam. But haven’t seen it on clothing/weaps. (I also have the problem with my guard who would soooooooo love Pow/Pre/Healing Pow gear)

Ascii.9726:

Warrior effective base health: 21284
Necromancer effective base health: 18372
Engineer effective base health: 16265
Ranger effective base health: 16265
Mesmer effective base health: 15082
Guardian effective base health: 12518
Thief effective base health: 11652
Elementalist effective base health: 10805

As for “best tankers” were far from.

Warrior and Necromancer both have 18372 base hp.
Warrior has heavy armor, necro has ds life pool. So their tanking abilities are nearly the same. But obviously the best tankers are guardians despite their hp.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Health

Umut.5471:

Ascii.9726:

Warrior effective base health: 21284
Necromancer effective base health: 18372
Engineer effective base health: 16265
Ranger effective base health: 16265
Mesmer effective base health: 15082
Guardian effective base health: 12518
Thief effective base health: 11652
Elementalist effective base health: 10805

As for “best tankers” were far from.

Warrior and Necromancer both have 18372 base hp.
Warrior has heavy armor, necro has ds life pool. So their tanking abilities are nearly the same. But obviously the best tankers are guardians despite their hp.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Health

That’s too general of an explanation. A warrior’s heavy armor doesn’t mean a thing when it comes to condition damage. Conversely, DS is more effective at countering conditions.