Guild Wars 2

I like thinking about all of the things could or should be. And I know you could probably balance most classes just by tweaking a few numbers here and there. But I would like necro to feel more unique. It’s my favorite class BY FAR, but so many classes get much cooler stuff. For instance, engineers get a ton of cool stuff that makes them mechanically different. Whether they are balanced or not they are unique.

While I would like new weapons, traits, I feel, are the best way to tangibly give variety to players. You can easily and instantly make your character feel different just by respeccing. So anyway, these are some of my thoughts.

As a note, I’m aware that with current values and scaling some things may or may not be viable whether over or under powered. This is more for the purpose of making the class have cool interactions or unique mechanics and isn’t necessarily for the purpose of “rebalancing.”

Finally some the decision may look strange. That is because I am also working on changing or creating weapons for necromancers (which includes incorporating some existing traits. Some traits may just be moved and not changed in values or otherwise. I do this for fun, but I try to make things that are actually relevant. I would appreciate constructive criticism.

Thanks

Your ideas seem pretty interesting, and I like a few of them. What do you mean by boost WH effectiveneess by 50%?

With unyielding blast, instead of a pierce, I’d like to see a bouncing projectile, which you sort of imply (that would be insanely good) or just a small AoE like the ele fire staff auto. That would help us with PvE considerably. In addition, I think we need more +% damage traits in easy to get positions like adept major traits, because right now theres only axe training and close to death for power builds. If you look at Ele (which I use in PvE mainly) there are so many +% damage traits. Ele has vital striking (or piercing shards which is iffier), stone splinters, bolt to heart and internal fire which are all adept majors, along with the +% damage to burning foes minor GM for fire, which most max DPS ele builds for PvE take, and can take because those traits are a ll easy to get and persisting flames is a great PvE GM trait.

Anyway, I’d like to see some options like that for necro. Move the blood magic GM minor to adept major or minor and make it a 10% damage boost instead of a power boost. Move target the weak to an earlier place in the curses tree so power builds can get it without giving up as many other traits. Maybe a +4% damage trait per active minon in death magic trait (like a mesmers empowering mantras but probably a kittenty idea) Things like that would be a huge boon for PvE, where necros are arguably the worst class. The only thing is that all the extra +% damage traits could possibly overbuff necros for WvW where power builds are actually in a pretty good place in my opinion.

Like I said some things are kind of foggy because they are actually paired with weapon changes or new weapon ideas that I have incorporated. For instance, I changed the way staff auto works in my concept so you are right about the bouncing projectile.

I actually don’t like % damage modifiers for necros. I just don’t like it thematically. I am trying to find a viable idea to replace close to death for instance. I think most people agree single target necro power is fine. Cleave, team buffs, and range is where we need help. My staff changes should help range and my new weapon would help cleave, but those aren’t really about the traits directly.

I’m still toying with siphoned power at the replacement for close to death. Grant might to nearby allies when you siphon life. It would be pretty hard to balance I would think though, but would shut a phalanx warrior up pretty quick.

-Cursed Tools: to strong for a master trait (affects too much).
-Dark Presence: is a bit on the weaker side since ferocity so maybe 200?
-Target the weak, not that it changes much.
-Withering precision: too strong for an adept minor trait, make it grandmaster minor.
-Weakening shroud: Already relies on “near too death” moving it too master will up the trait usage. Also blind with short weakness? Kinda a waste of the weakness.
-Banshee wail: absolutely not the cooldown reduction is worth too much.
-Barbed precision: too weak for a grandmaster minor trait and you lose some serious condition power as a 6/4/0/0/4 build so leave it as it is.
-Staff mastery: meh, nothing changes.
-shrouded removal: kinda weak for a grand master, keep it as it is but make it pulse.
-Death Shiver: not sure about that one.
-Unholy Sanctuary: still useless.
-Quickening thirst: sounds interesting.
-Unholy Martyr: too weak for a grandmaster trait.
-Unyealding blast: this will ruin life blast because ranger will be hit twice and therefore will be nerfed.
-Soul marks: doesn’t change much.
-Renewing blast: with unyealding blast OP or the healing will suck.( heal an ally three times)

I have the feeling that you have modified traits that are in good positions just so that your other changes can be done. Not a good idea in my opinion.

You know that everything except Dark Presence and Wshroud would nerfs to necro, right?

I don’t think they’d all be nerfs, but some definitely would be yes.

My main issue with this is that in certain cases there seem to be changes not necessarily because there is anything wrong with the way things are, but simply changes for the sake of it. I’ll look at stuff a bit more indepth though in a bit, I really like at least the change to our newest Soul Reaping trait

Like I said in the OP a lot of changes would be thematic. For instance, Target the Weak, makes more sense to me in the top tree. It isn’t really effected by crit in any way. Makes it amazing for full power build relying on deathly perception. It also fits better, IMO, with condition duration.

A lot of the moves, are because I moved something else and a void was created. I also stated that the numbers and scaling would need to be different so this wasn’t intended as a “balance” change. These changes were suggested to make necro feel a little different. Thanks for the input.

As a side note, what did you guys think of the siphoning power idea in my second post?

There is enough classes that give might to allies. If anything necros need to.be able to turn. Condis into boons on allies.

Tim.6450:

-Withering precision: too strong for an adept minor trait, make it grandmaster minor.

“Withering Precision” and “too strong for…”: two phrases that have never been used in the same sentence before. :P

Damaein, I applaud your effort. Some of these changes would be really nice, others would be pretty hard nerfs, Weakening Shroud being moved up to master tier for example.
Weakening – Terror – Path of Corruption is probably the most popular trait combo in Curses atm, with your changes this combo would no longer be possible. And those who just had 4 points in Curses for Weakening Shroud and Terror (not to mention the loss of Barbed Precision) would have to either lose one of those traits or take a nerf by reducing points in a different trait line.

I also don’t understand the change to Unyielding Blast (Dark Thirst). Do you mean that those projectiles would no longer pierce but bounce? Do you still inflict vulnerability or would you have to pick the changed Death Shiver trait? Would Necrotic Grasp hit 7 instead of 5 targets with this trait??

Damaein.6413:

Like I said in the OP a lot of changes would be thematic. For instance, Target the Weak, makes more sense to me in the top tree. It isn’t really effected by crit in any way. Makes it amazing for full power build relying on deathly perception. It also fits better, IMO, with condition duration.

A lot of the moves, are because I moved something else and a void was created. I also stated that the numbers and scaling would need to be different so this wasn’t intended as a “balance” change. These changes were suggested to make necro feel a little different. Thanks for the input.

As a side note, what did you guys think of the siphoning power idea in my second post?

If you want the actual lore themes, it would be:
Spite – making every enemy in a 600 radius around us suffer for doing ANYTHING (aka permaretaliation, mass aoe chill, torment and confusion).
Curses – a combination of barely notable for hp effects with triggers that require those effects to 2 shot anything
DM – 1000 mini bhawbs exploding and shooting other mini bhawbs are your enemies and from time to time on yourself.
BM – it would… actually it was mostly worthless then and it is mostly worthless now, it would stay as is
Soul Reaping – it would only influence stuff in death shroud and all of its effects only be of use once you already won/are winning in a teamfight… or your allies die like nubs; Except for giving you perma regen and making enemies explode in funny balls of ice while unequipping all their gear.

If however you ment it from a in game concepts, aside from the obvious initial dumps of why not for balance:
Axe and Dagger are used for the same build style, but opposite playstyles, but since fusing weapon traits which have secondary effects, it would pretty much mandate everyone to run it, BUT it would also ruin axe as a standalone weapon because the traited 10% modifier actually made it viable to use (for DS too that is despite 0.75 weaker weapon strength which is around 14-50 power drop, the higher damage variance and Transfusion/Tshackles being weaker then).

Dark presence is ok as said, tho probably a tad op for all the crit encounters people exploit.

TtW+Close to death in one line is broken (kinda like how slashing power and zerk might are, but they are still in major slots, this would just be jump from 60 to 80 to get free 16% guaranteed dps across the board.

Wprec, while for it it would be a buff, a lowe Bprec is much stronger for hybrid and coni builds.

Banshees Veil was good for its CDR, not that much for the increased effect (tho dont look a gift warhorse in the mouth), thus removing that part would make it one of those, never pick except for a life blast build for which its a 30 second fire and forget.

Staff mastery is actually ok as a adept, id add the 10% boost to staff across the board either base or to something actually lacking additional features/not worth its slot.

Shrouded removal doesnt make sense in ripping boons off you nor of the enemy (since its not a projectile nor a aoe effect. Tho it does need to compete with shadows embrace (1 condi removed on entry with 10s cooldown minimum which gives up survivability vs a 60/70% uptime 1 condi pre 3s which instantly triggers, i dont get how the first one is even a thing especially since its total uptime/removal is over 60% worse with a way higher cost)).

Death shiver needs a rework (maybe back to 1s chill pre 3s or something like cast reapers touch onto enemies hit by the immob of tainted shackles)

Usanctuary, despite it being kittenty in overall regen value, still has GM value in it as a unique effect, youd just get another terror equivalent nerf

Quickening thirst, despite not making sense in its current value, makes just as little sense in the rework, also reliable quickness is a tad too strong.

Umartyr would be flat out nerfed (to compensate for a-net kittening up putrid mark code and refusing to fix it, then calling it a feature).

Unyielding is again a plain nerf, piercing + vuln is fare more valuable with proper positioning.

Soul marks swap would mean the end of LF generator necros, having no value from adept in SR and only on target hit basic attacks (tho im not against putting it onto adept since it is underwhelming compared to how the idk how old version when marks had to be self activated gave LF pre target).

And for Renewing blast it is kinda a toss up, but 5 targets in for example a wvwvw zergfest is probably better than just 3 around you (tho its hitbox detection could need work).

I haven’t actually attempted to balance my idea yet (other than rough ideas in my head). I can elaborate a little on some of my ideology just so we know where the changes are coming from though. I actually did give a lot of this thought, but my goal was to give an incomplete version so that more experienced people could “weed out” any things I overlooked or didn’t realize before I even bothered balancing it incorrectly.

The staff change is really only a nerf with the current scaling. In my version, some weapons are different. Staff is one of these. Necrotic grasp is a single target ability with greater speed, scaling, and tracking. the post cast animation is also decreased so you actually would attack faster. I believe the current total attack time is 1.4 where as the new would be 1.25 (3/4 before 1/2 after). In that alone, the damage increases per target and the staff would feel a little different and more responsive.

For the bouncing trait it would only hit once per target (hence seek additional targets and not simply bounce) this is thematic (seeking new blood) and practical (easier to balance vs pet classes. I also changed the marks. In my theme, I decrease the base bleed duration of Mark#2 to 6s but increase the base stack of bleeds to 3. I also decrease the power scaling of Mark#4 while increasing the scaling of Mark #2-3. This would give a little better burst condition while still keep it relevant (possibly better) for power necros in WvW. And homing is 197,563,282% better than piercing in my book because it’s reliable.

The increase to staff damage (the old spiteful marks traits) is not the same. It would overall increase power damage. The old one was marks only. The new one scales the auto. So in every way, I think the new staff would be better (possibly making staff a better main weapon in some cases ex. WvW where it’s already used heavily).

This is just one example. I have a lot of different ideas on traits that I haven’t decided on. For instance, change weakening shroud to darkness descending: on DS blind, poison, and chill. I don’t like the idea of just using a weak filler version of enfeebling blood just because it’s easy or it’s always been that way.

This would change the trait entirely. The DS stomp could become amazing with this trait. My purpose is to FORCE diversity. Terror would always be taken unless something as awesome contests its spot. My goal would be to make everything relevant, while giving nothing a guaranteed spot.

I’ve already gotten some useful feedback though. Thanks for the input guys.

Good as Listed
Dark Presence
Target the Weak
Staff Mastery
Unholy Sanctuary
Quickening Thirst
Soul Marks
Renewing Blast

Too Strong
Cursed tools – too strong. These traits are balanced as is, although arguably not very useful they are still balanced.
Withering Precision – thats just a really strong trait for just 1 point. Yes its bad as a GM, but an adept minor from a GM major is a huge swap
Weakening Shroud – its fine as is, no need to make it stronger like this. if anything increase the base weakness by 1s
Barbed Precision – my main issue with this is that Terror is only a Master trait, which means that not all condi damage builds will have access to this potentially very important trait, for a move that doesn’t really help anything particularly well
Shrouded Removal – doesn’t make the trait all that good, imo. One condition removed and one boon? bleh
Unyielding Blast – its fine as is, this also seems a bit too strong because it basically guarantees extra hits, whereas lining up a pierce is much harder

Meh
Banshee’s Wail – this is already balanced, but so is your idea
Unholy Martyr – this trait needs a bit more than just this, I don’t think this is particularly impressive either

Question
How does your proposed Deathly Shiver work? For example, how does Tainted Shackles proc it? Does Life Transfer proc it per-tick, or does it only matter if you get hit by a single tick, or do you have to be hit by the first or last tick? If Life Blast has pierce (or your idea), does it proc on every person, just the first?

I think you should switch Curse minor 1 and 3. 5 sec weakness on crit is too good for a 1 point trait, would fit very good as a minor trait though.

Unyielding blast is fine as it is, i do however like the idea very much, a trait that improves staff AA is really needed imo.

Healing blast is bad. I honestly dont think this trait should exist in any version. Its a unreliable heal, your movement, the enemy movement, as well as your ally movement affect it, also taking in consideration the slow cast time it can never be used or utilized reliable against any non stationary target. Maybe it should heal the necromancer for a % of damage done through life blast (and maybe staff #1)

Unholy sanctuary would fit a lot better as a master trait, i fully agree here.

Shrouded removal is meh, it adds something, sure, but the problem is you dont want to spec 6 into DM for such a trait, also the minors are more based around staying in DS, this GM would promote fast shrouddancing, i dont think its a good idea, in this trait line at least.

@Brujeria, I think its fine as a niche trait. I agree it certainly won’t see wide play, but the ability to heal teammates while still dealing fairly competitive damage is awesome. The only issue right now is it is totally unreliable.

Bhawb.7408:

@Brujeria, I think its fine as a niche trait. I agree it certainly won’t see wide play, but the ability to heal teammates while still dealing fairly competitive damage is awesome. The only issue right now is it is totally unreliable.

And truthfully, if it wasn’t so unreliable, it would be horribly overpowered. Pumping out sustained AoE 1k healing/second with ease would be broken. And yes, those numbers are quite achievable.

If life blast would bounce i could take any 1v2 as a power necro. 5k per life blast

In terms of Lifeblast it would be homing in my version. This would make the healing on life blast reliable in and of itself. It would still only be relevant in a WvW sense most likely. But then again when do you take a reduced drop damage trait in a duel. Some skills can (should?) be useful for niche situations IMO. But remember that my theme would not bounce to an old target so it would check for nearby unique enemies and then seek. And it’s not like it would bounce across the map. The enemies would need to be somewhat close but I’m unsure of a balanced seek range.

I would like the seeking for LB and NG BECAUSE of the outnumbered potential. Multi oppenent scaling is needed for power necro I think. There are classes that survive regardless of number of opponents just from sheer CC or iFrames. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to give us something on par when we have no way to sustain through tons of damage (granted it’s offense and we are supposed to get attrition…I guess).

Before someone says DS tanks a ton of damage, please note that I’ve seen a warrior wade through a 50+ zerg by himself and get inside a keep. DS isn’t doing jackkitten close to that.