Guild Wars 2

Balefire.7592:

I’m actually fairly interested in some of these results.

• Would Death into Life be better as Vitality? Would you keep it as HP if it was a minor trait?

Actually, what i really want are Minors that add some new effects to your character, instead of all those boring “+5/10% damage when X” or “7/10% of X goes to Y” traits.

So while better use for our Healing power could turn this into an ok trait, i would prefer it if this gets scrapped and replaced by something more interesting.

I’ve given it about a week in between each poll, so unless everyone is really antsy to move on to those, I planned on starting them on Sunday.

Since there doesnt seem to be much of a discussion, im fine with moving on.

RashanDale.3609:

Actually, what i really want are Minors that add some new effects to your character, instead of all those boring “+5/10% damage when X” or “7/10% of X goes to Y” traits.

So while better use for our Healing power could turn this into an ok trait, i would prefer it if this gets scrapped and replaced by something more interesting.
Since there doesnt seem to be much of a discussion, im fine with moving on.

Yeah, those types of minors are really boring IMO.
Even reanimator, as horrible as it is, at least brings something unique for a minor.
That’s the best thing I’ve ever said about that trait and also the only good thing I can say about it.

So, since discussion has stalled, and there have been requests to move on, I present to you the Blood Magic Survey. Please take the time to complete it, and if you know any other Necros, bribe them to do so as well.

I took the liberty of adding some questions at the end given the current sorry state of siphons.

cool!

15/ something.

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQBAA

This will be an hard discussion, because most of this line never worked properly so we can’t say where we should aim for.

Minors:

• Full of Life: I’d just say “check this”:
  http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Metaphysical_Rejuvenation
• Vampiric: Low values, scaling bad (does it scale?), doesn’t work under Death Shroud. Imho it’s terrible. It does seem like Guardian’s Zealous Blade (Zeal VII). Healing for 25 each hit.. What? It’s a bad standalone minor trait, it needs the interaction with other Major Traits to work.
• Blood to power: Situational, in PVP it’s not good, with healing in Death Shroud it would still have some hope.
  …Increase damage for every Bleeding stack on the target maybe?…

Majors:

• Dagger Mastery: 20% on Dagger Cooldown, the only good thing i see in it is the interaction with Deathly Swarm. 1 Trait for 1 skill?
• Bloodthirst: Can’t really say, maybe it’s because of this that Anet won’t boost Siphoning.. JUst tested, it’s effect is scarce, worthless.
• Mark of Evasion: A somehow nice Adept trait working finely with Sigil of Energy in somehow bunker builds. It’s not the ideal trait because of our lack of Vigor.
• Ritual of Life: This is actually nice in Pve and was really nice before when it didn’t have an ICD, when ressing multiple players with Signet of Undeath.
• Vampiric Precision: Siphon MORE life if you land a crit. Does it have an hidden ICD? The amount is still laughable and I don’t see it viable in PVP.
• Transfusion: A nice tool, but unluckly is totally supportive, you don’t gain any benefit from it. For instance I’d rather Mark of Evasion over this trait.
• Ritual Mastery: The wells CD will still be too long, maybe it needs to get merged with other traits?
• Deathly Invigoration: This trait is a waste. Low scaling for low effect. Spamming and wasting DS cooldown for more sustain each 10 seconds?
• Quickening Thirst: This trait is a waste. Wasting 20 traitpoints in Blood to get an increase in movespeed? I could consider it if it was an Adept trait, anyway I’d see it better get scrapped.
• Fetid Consumption: Really nice trait, a pity its Tooltip doesn’t say that it works for every ally nearby so in large scale fights it’s gonna suck badly.
  PS: If this trait allow minions to draw conditions from each other, then with just a combo field applying conditions this traits makes an autogoal, wasting every proc and totally neutralizing his own effect.
• Vampiric Rituals: This trait is a waste as GrandMaster. Maybe make wells apply Immobilize on each tick. Or totally scrap it away. Better.

Comments: Work In Progress..

Thinking about the goal of this tree, it has Vitality and Healing, traits needed by bunkers, supports (I don’t know of any good Necromancer Supportive build, correct me if I’m wrong), and those “dudes” who needs more survivability and sustain (probably in PVE). But again, in PVE it’s promoted the high dps and in Blood there aren’t traits raising properly your dps..

Siphons can actually increase the dps, by not that much. Around 40-50 per proc.
We do siphon on average criticals (if it has no icd), on autoattacks and generic hits, with minions OR wells.
So while autoattaking or channeling Life Siphon we can have Locust Swarm, each of the Wells or Minions and every our critical strike proccing a siphon, so potentially 5-6 sustained siphoning sources, which will damage and heal for 40 units.
It’s not that much, even running a berserker gear the whole dps will be subpair.

The sustain with protection from Ritual of Protection, the life gain from Life Siphon, Healing Well and Regeneration isn’t bad, but it would be somehow viable only in PVE.

Thinking about Vampiric, it’s similiar to Reanimator, if you go down this traitline you’re forced on having this tool, which is an active/sustain tool, usually required by aggressive builds - it would be-, which is not the only goal of this tree. If anyone wants to go for a supportive role now has this trait which doesn’t help.
Imho the Vampiric and Siphoning traits should be more strong and just a choice between the major traits.

Once in GW1 the Blood spells over being known for the siphon effects (direct or indirect throug terrible Hexes), were also really good because of their supportive role, remember Order of Pain, Order of the Vampire, increasing the group DPS or allowing them siphoning (similiar to Signet of Vampirism), or Blood is Power, Blood Ritual allowing energy regeneration on teammates..
-cough This can be a nice idea to allow us Vigor. cough-

Can anyone remember the BiP battery build?
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Battery

AND to make feel this line more needed, it would need a GrandMaster trait allowing healing under DS, so to make it a staple for Bunker and DS builds. [“Revenant”-like]

Balefire.7592:

So, since discussion has stalled, and there have been requests to move on, I present to you the Blood Magic Survey. Please take the time to complete it, and if you know any other Necros, bribe them to do so as well.

I took the liberty of adding some questions at the end given the current sorry state of siphons.

Nice!

Didnt want to cram all of this into the comments section, so:
-Full of life: i just cant understand why Mesmer has the exact same trait but with twice the duration. I mean we’re the class that is supposed to facetank stuff with DS and high base HP, while Mesmers have tons of evades/blocks and whatnot. Plus, it’s likely that a part of Full of life’s heal will be negated by death shroud. So if mesmers have 10 secs, we should have at least 15.

-Mark of Evasion: the 10 second ICD makes no sense at all. Necros have no vigor, so we can only dodgeroll once every 10 seconds anyway. And other classes like guardians, engis, mesmers, thiefs have no ICD at all on their respective traits, while being able to dodge a lot more thanks to vigor.

-Blood to power is weak and boring. It should be scrapped and replaced with something more interesting. Something that gives us more groupsupport/use for healing power, hopefully.

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046:

cool!

15/ something.

D:
Why no more words?

Ah, the Blood Traitline. One of my favorites, and one I absolutely agree needs some work. While I think is usually a little underrated (I usually run 25 Blood in WvW and 20 Blood in my PVE condi build), I know it needs a lot of work.

Some trait, for example, are good on paper but just have horrible scaling/values, but some have to be completely removed (Did someone ever use Quickening Thirst ?).

Something I’ve noticed is that our Minor Traits tend to be just some random extra thing that is nice to have, but ultimately something no one cares about. Aside from the Curses minors, and Last Gasp, I don’t think I’d actually care at all if any build I had lost all its minor traits. They’re all little things that are hard to notice, and rarely make any diffference, and I never feel like I want to put points into a tree specifically for them.

Other classes, particularly Mesmers, Rangers, Engineers, and Warriors, have a lot of minor traits that look interesting, and are something I specifically try to fit into a build.

This is not to say that they don’t have useless minors, it just seems to me that I actually care about my minor traits when I play those classes. If I’m not specced into Curses, I really couldn’t care less about any of my minor traits.

Yep other classes either have very interesting or powerful minors. Necro has really tragic minors in most places. Just looking at engi’s precision line they basically have target the weak but as a grandmaster but their 25 minor is 5% damage to bleeding foes so they can get more modifiers pretty easily. Our 5 point minors are all about a tiny bit of sustain whereas other classes get something nice like vigor on crit. And we dont have a single 10% damage minor in the 25 slot. We have 120 power in blood (crap) and 5% damage in soul reaping (sub par).

Come on ladies and germs, keep ‘dem votes comin’!

Cmon people, answer the poll and if you have some nice idea let’s make some brainstorming!

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1UTbrWPoLJjy8Iy6H7OWFScNhPIUj1zEnqLDDKslzxm4/viewform

Minors:
Full of Life – Apparently ANet’s idea of necromancer attrition was regeneration mixed with life steal. It would be great if either of those things provided any noticeable healing at all. It would be greater if regeneration wasn’t as common as white on rice and didn’t only stack duration. It would be even greater if it was possible to heal while in Death Shroud. It would be even greater than that if mesmers didn’t have an exact copy of this trait that is more powerful while also not having a class mechanic that negates their own abilities.

Vampiric – This is supposed to be the core trait of Blood Magic. Too bad lifesteal is completely broken.

Blood to Power – One of the more underwhelming minor traits in the game. I guess it’s too hard to come up with something that adds a new mechanic or even provides more than a miniscule sliver of benefit.

Adept:
Dagger Mastery – Your standard boring weapon trait. But what’s this? It only provides a solitary benefit when other weapon traits provide at least two effects?

Bloodthirst – This trait is abysmal, terrible, horrendous, boring, and atrocious. If you are traiting far enough into Blood Magic for lifesteal, the added effect of this should be baseline since you are already sacrificing points you could be putting into DPS-oriented traits. It is not needed. It is an unnecessary burden and a waste of a trait. Get rid of it.

Mark of Blood – The one profession with a dodge trait that has a cooldown can’t even dodge enough to make proper use of it if it didn’t have a cooldown. Wow.

Ritual of Life – Great for mindless WvW zergs. Good luck standing inside a big healing circle when AoE is pouring down on you.

Vampiric Precision – An extension of Vampiric and Bloodthirst. At least this one is a decent boost, unlike Bloodthirst.

Transfusion – One of the very few decent group support traits available to necromancers. I remember joking one day to guildmates, “I wonder if they’ll add healing power scaling to Transfusion.” The next day, it was so.

Master:
Vampiric Master – Apparently this trait is overpowered in SPvP. Notice that it does far more base healing and damage than the other lifesteal traits while having a source (your minion horde) that attacks many times quickly. Gee, it would be great if Vampiric Precision did that much so it would be worth making a crit-focused build that sacrificed damage for lifesteal…But build variety is for suckers.

Ritual Master – Alright, another dull trait. I guess it works. Whatever.

Deathly Invigoration – This is probably one of the least used necromancer traits just because healing necromancers are subpar in general. There’s nothing wrong with the trait itself aside from its abysmally low healing (yeah, I’m going to sacrifice all damage and lock out Death Shroud for an incredible 1000 healing per 7 seconds which is less than my berserker elementalist can do…), but everything else within a related build is not worth it. I guess it’s useful if you want to heal minions or something, but why would you take this trait in PvP? To get the most out of this trait (aka anything at all), you need to flash Death Shroud every 7 seconds, which is a death sentence in PvP.

Quickening Thirst – I have to wonder how traits like this were even implemented. Movement speed boosts are a dime a dozen. Abilities that teleport or otherwise move you are common. Abilities that reduce mobility are very common. Abilities that remove abilities that reduce mobility are even more common. Traiting for a small boost in movement speed pales in comparison to something like Dogged March.

Grandmaster:
Fetid Consumption – I’m not really sure why this qualifies as a grandmaster trait when condition removal is not something necromancers struggle with. I mean, we already have Spiteful Removal and Shrouded Removal in easier-to-access spots, and they’re still barely used. Plus, this trait is actually worse than those because it debuffs your minions.

Vampiric Rituals – And here we have the last of the sad lifesteal brigade. Maybe this is a decent trait. Maybe if you’re lucky, you can catch 5 people inside of a well, then have those hits crit, then have your lifesteal-on-crit sigil proc, and then you can feel happy that you just healed for slightly more than Healing Signet does per pulse. Assuming you weren’t in Death Shroud.

May I also point out that mesmers and elementalists both use the equivalent of Blood Magic (Inspiration and Water Magic respectively) as part of their DPS builds because there are traits that add both damage and healing/support in them. Both of these professions also steadily heal nearby allies (via Phantasmal Healing and Soothing Mist) while doing high damage. There is no sacrifice made for self-preservation or group healing; it’s just part of the package. Meanwhile, necromancers…have Death Shroud builds that stack life force…I guess?

I agree with almost all those points, except Vampiric Rituals, which is actually sort of decent in a full well-build. But that’s speaking from a PVE perspective, where monsters don’t move out of the wells.

And as for Ritual of Protection, I think it should give longer stability, and it should give it to allies too, so it provides meaningful team support. Wells have very long cool downs, and the necro could really use some better access to stability.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

I agree with almost all those points, except Vampiric Rituals, which is actually sort of decent in a full well-build. But that’s speaking from a PVE perspective, where monsters don’t move out of the wells.

And as for Ritual of Protection, I think it should give longer stability, and it should give it to allies too, so it provides meaningful team support. Wells have very long cool downs, and the necro could really use some better access to stability.

I think you mean protection since it gives no stability… and you know longer 0 is still 0…

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQBAA
Siphon and Wells :
Actually the only use for Vampiric Rituals is to increase the siphon from wells: they procs Vampiric and Vampiric Rituals (eventually Vampiric Precision) bringing a raw income of 40+65 (and eventually +40 on crits) siphon life; a total of 105_145 health and damage per second on each well (110 _170 with Bloodthirst).
Remember that Well of Blood lasts 10 seconds, Well of Suffering 6 seconds, all other wells 5 seconds (max 4 wells in the bar) on a 35-50 second of cooldown (28 – 40 with Ritual Mastery).
Plus we have to consider the proc of Vampiric and Vampiric Precision (40 _ 80) from autoattacks and Locusts Swarm. And eventually procs from Sigils and Regeneration effects.

Imho the work ANET made on this is a total mess balanced around the max health income in the most extreme good situation.

In Pve it’s “somehow-decent” (it would be ""SOMEHOW"-ok" if Siphoning would be allowed under DS), but in Pvp it’s totally lackluster, nobody would stand in the wells waiting to get every hit.. the max you can hope is the well to tick 2 times and there you’re wasting 30 trait points for 200 siphoned damages on a 30-40 seconds cooldown.

So imho Vampiric Rituals it’s actually TRASH and doesn’t even deserve it’s GrandMaster trait slot. Maybe ger rid of Quickening Thirst and move it on Master trait.. maybe merging with Ritual Mastery.. meh I still think it would be TRASH.

Siphon and Minions:
The real beast is Vampiric Master which is really good with a siphon of 60-80 on hit for every Minion. It can have more uptime and more reliability.
Well it’s still not good as Healing Signet, because it needs other spells, traits and good situation to work with…

Siphon restyle option:
I think Siphoning should need a tweak and a restyle, to go along this path: raising DPS as an alternative to the Spite line and allow good sustain as it should. This can be the real way of getting attrition and build variety.
Starting by removing all the mandatory siphoning from minors and reworking them on a Master/GrandMaster trait.
Ending by allowing healings or siphons under DS.
This way I see siphoning as a good tool for Bunker builds with high sustain or a sustain tool for powerbuilds. Can’t say for condi builds.

Potential alternative mechanics:
Better than the actual situation, in which you can potentially siphon with no restriction a ridicle amount of life, and better than managing and trying to balance a siphon based on a casual proc and an internal cooldown, I’d see it better working like Signet of Vampirism, like “every time you use this spell or procs this effect your target gets marked (or you gain a buff that allows you to..), you siphon life for X times on this target” for a decent amount, similiar to Chill of Death.
Maybe proccing on a % of life? Or with more control entering in DS? Or maybe on Fear application? (I remember a good idea from someone on this forum allowing Siphoning Fears -it would fit for condition builds maybe-)… Or using a signet? Or applying a condition (immobilize for instance)?

BTW, remember the Signet of Vampirism which was supposed to be a good siphon… yeah it doesnt work on taco, wurm, etc anymore in addition to using it as a bug on wvwvw gates (also tshackles doesnt work on those targets either for some reason…)

Well, one day left before I publish the results. Let’s see if we can’t eke out a couple extra votes.

I do have one simple idea: swap Blood to Power and Death Into Life. At least then they would provide direct benefit to the builds that actually have the traits.

Geez, i need to research the other classes more … Protection Injection seems to be sooooooooooooo good.

I have all classes at 80 except ranger. And yeah im still amazed at how far behind the quality of necro traits is compared to every single other class.

But but but that thing and THIS is .. what? I don’t even … Better go to sleep now. Too much stress for today.

Sorry for the tardiness, but in conclusion of the current polling period, here are the results.

Do any of them surprise you?
Do you disagree with any of them?

No surprises, other than the one person who said Vampiric Rituals is OP. That makes no sense to me.

no surprises..
no disagreement really.

good work man.

Balefire.7592:

Sorry for the tardiness, but in conclusion of the current polling period, here are the results.

Do any of them surprise you?
Do you disagree with any of them?

51% think that Full of life is Alright or Great
51% think that Mark of Evasion is Alright or Great
36% think Blood to Power is Alright or Great

O_o

@RashanDale:

Just consider the sum between positive and negative attributes.
The fact that 36% of people who answered the poll thought it was Alright or Great testify that they didn’t think and know enough before answering.

What I’m surprised to see it’s the result on Fetid Consumption.
Nobody made a research to discover the tooltip is uncorrect, that the Minion draws condition from nearby allies.. It’s not a bad trait but it’s NOT THAT good.

The real problem is anyway nobody seems to care that much about discussing and updating their knowledge about the general tree… So we see those results regarding Full of Life & Co… Anyway… I don’t blame them, this should be ANET’s work..

Luke.4562:

@RashanDale:

Just consider the sum between positive and negative attributes.
The fact that 36% of people who answered the poll thought it was Alright or Great testify that they didn’t think and know enough before answering.

What I’m surprised to see it’s the result on Fetid Consumption.
Nobody made a research to discover the tooltip is uncorrect, that the Minion draws condition from nearby allies.. It’s not a bad trait but it’s NOT THAT good.

The real problem is anyway nobody seems to care that much about discussing and updating their knowledge about the general tree… So we see those results regarding Full of Life & Co… Anyway… I don’t blame them, this should be ANET’s work..

Its actually very nice since the update of it working with Jhorrors since they are at least of some use then (unless you got DN in which case they are truly designed to eat a condi and die).

RashanDale.3609:

Balefire.7592:

Sorry for the tardiness, but in conclusion of the current polling period, here are the results.

Do any of them surprise you?
Do you disagree with any of them?

51% think that Full of life is Alright or Great
51% think that Mark of Evasion is Alright or Great
36% think Blood to Power is Alright or Great

O_o

Yeah I did find it strange to see so many “alright”. The entire line is subpar or terrible. The only thing that isnt is ritual mastery but that could probably be moved to the adept position or moved to another tree. Life siphon traits are good concepts but they are a bit too weak most of the time (subpar). Id like to see bloodthirst removed and all siphons brought up to do more healing and slightly more damage as base.

-Full of life is alright because necro’s are amazed when they can put a boon on themself.
-Mark of evasion is alright (see above)
-Blood to Power… i doonno.

imo These traits are an “excuse” for weak siphoning. since your siphon is weak, have some dodges ^^ it’s quite an RNG trait.

@Andele:
I didn’t say it’s a bad trait, I said its not THAT good trait.
It’s good in 1v1, but when you have XvX situations Minions gonna draw whatever they can draw, so essentially a single AoE can wipe away Fetid Consumption effect easily.
It’s still better than the passive removals of Guardians and Hunters.

I was that 1%, because it heals lots, but I was just comparing it to other aspects of the crapomancer. Compared to the 35s cd of 2.7-6k heal from life transfer, if you get like 10 things in your well radius you’re getting 30-40×10)x4 hp a tick with a cooldown of 32/28/32/40s. Could be more if you have Bloodthirst..

In short, I was saying it’s OP because you’ll never really drop unless you’re getting spiked for lots of damage and that crap is outa ur hands..

I play hybrid/wellomancer sent/knight/celestial gear, average condition damage, average atk, above average armor and hp, i facetank 30+ fotm bosses like they’re mosquitoes. While doing lowered dps, I don’t come close to dying if I play right.

I am always stuck seeing every one else die, then I get swarmed because all aggro on me. Other classes are unable to rush in to the middle of all the ascalonians in the ascalon fractal and live to tell the tale.

Also it’s funny but it feels like every kitten party I’m in requires a freakin wellomancer to survive, if I don’t throw out my wells, everyone seems to drop fast, regardless of class or level of skill. AND.. If I EVER die.. people start dropping on boss fights, like I’m their shelter or something idefk..

@Yamedo:
I don’t agree so much on that point, you’re showing the Wellmancer as an OP viable spec, but…

• Wells can hit an amount of max 5 targets per hit. So that “10 thing in your well” isn’t that correct.
• The only well that can really sustain you when tanking is Well of Blood. Paired with Ritual of Protection.
  Consider you can hit a max of 5 targets in aoe situations siphoning about 100 hps for tick on an average duration of 5-6 seconds popping all coldowns (once in 30-40 seconds). You’ll be gaining in an arc of 5 seconds (raw duration of our wells, excluded WoB) a total minimum of 500 (1 target) to 2500 (5 targets) health for each well you pop. 2000 (1 tar) _ 10000 (5 tars) hps MAX once every 30-40 seconds during the 5-6-7 seconds of the combo duration.
  Paired with protection and regeneration can be a nice amount, but..
  1) it doesn’t synergize with DS; 2) it heavily scales on the amount of enemies you have around and the damage they deal to you.
• The fact that you’re the only one surviving is because maybe all other players are running Berserker gear or Knights? Just askin.

PS: I tend to consider as all AoEs that Vampiric Rituals would proc on a maximum of 5 targets, can’t really say if it doesn’t have restrictions as other aoes.

Yamedo.2561:

Also it’s funny but it feels like every kitten party I’m in requires a freakin wellomancer to survive, if I don’t throw out my wells, everyone seems to drop fast, regardless of class or level of skill. AND.. If I EVER die.. people start dropping on boss fights, like I’m their shelter or something idefk..

Oddly enough, this is my experience as well. We might be running similar builds. Due to the mix of high toughness and constant up time of protection, my necromancer lasts very long when face tanking bosses, or overwhelming mobs of enemies. And the damage is decent as well, due to high power. And it seems to improve the survivability of groups as well. It really does feel that whenever I join a group with my well-o-mancer, survivability of the group simply doubles. And I’m often the last person standing, as was recently the case during the Marionette event.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Yamedo.2561:

Also it’s funny but it feels like every kitten party I’m in requires a freakin wellomancer to survive, if I don’t throw out my wells, everyone seems to drop fast, regardless of class or level of skill. AND.. If I EVER die.. people start dropping on boss fights, like I’m their shelter or something idefk..

Oddly enough, this is my experience as well. We might be running similar builds. Due to the mix of high toughness and constant up time of protection, my necromancer lasts very long when face tanking bosses, or overwhelming mobs of enemies. And the damage is decent as well, due to high power. And it seems to improve the survivability of groups as well. It really does feel that whenever I join a group with my well-o-mancer, survivability of the group simply doubles. And I’m often the last person standing, as was recently the case during the Marionette event.

Funny, same things happen in TTS when mari has more than half pugs and on wurm setups~

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Yamedo.2561:

Also it’s funny but it feels like every kitten party I’m in requires a freakin wellomancer to survive, if I don’t throw out my wells, everyone seems to drop fast, regardless of class or level of skill. AND.. If I EVER die.. people start dropping on boss fights, like I’m their shelter or something idefk..

Oddly enough, this is my experience as well. We might be running similar builds. Due to the mix of high toughness and constant up time of protection, my necromancer lasts very long when face tanking bosses, or overwhelming mobs of enemies. And the damage is decent as well, due to high power. And it seems to improve the survivability of groups as well. It really does feel that whenever I join a group with my well-o-mancer, survivability of the group simply doubles. And I’m often the last person standing, as was recently the case during the Marionette event.

Would you so kind to share this build?

Dalanor.5387:

Would you so kind to share this build?

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQEQNArdWjQad6Vaia8bKApCYP9g7xFHqwuRKGuYA-jgCBofIYgYEEQkIZkKIIZnFRjtcqIasalYaYER1mcFRrWKgfVGB-e

It could still use some improvement. I keep tweaking it as I play (and as some traits get axed). Vampiric Runes have saved my life a lot, and although the wells siphon only minor amounts of health, it does add up, and provides a gradual flow of health during combat.

The sigils on the weapons I’m still not happy with. I like the Sigil of Bloodlust, but maybe I should put it in the scepter, instead of the staff. I haven’t bothered to really specialize my underwater weapons much, since underwater combat sucks, and is rather irrelevant in PVE.

I swap out Well of Darkness for Spectral Walk when ever I need a run skill (I basically always keep one optional skill on my skill bar, that I can swap out as I see fit.).

I use Plague mostly for PVE situations that feature a lot of melee targets (like the Urban Battlegrounds fractal). Otherwise I swap to Lich Form (fractals) or Flesh Golem (for the Marionette). While the Flesh Golem is not as powerful when not specifically spending traits on minion mastery, he can sometimes be handy due to his incredibly short cool down, and the fact that you can pretty much leave him unattended as you’re fighting enemies. You don’t want to find your plague or lich form on cooldown right as you’re entering a portal to fight one of the Wardens. The Flesh Golem is always available.

Scepter? Can’t guess why not Axe at this point-

I’m not the best necro to ask about the blood line as I enjoy death shroud which is in total opposition to life stealing. But interesting discussion nonetheless. Mad Queen, I feel like I have to ask though, could it be the actual effects of your wells, in addition to the protection, that is what’s making you and everyone that stands in them so tanky?

I mean, that is what well of blood, power, and darkness are for… before they even get the protection and chill added. I mean, unless the tool tip is wrong (which ok, is a very real possibility) then transfusion would be a much better heal, even taking into account that you have four wells and probably don’t spend much time in death shroud, you get in and out right? Why not instead, go in and use life transfer with transfusion and get out? If you don’t think bloodthirst is worth it at that point, you could either drop that for transfusion and take, I don’t know deathly invigoration instead of vampiric rituals?

Or, take 10 points out of blood and put it into spite (increasing healing by 32 and decreasing power by 24) and taking spiteful talisman or chill of death? This would also increase your 1 second condition durations by 1/4 second, and your longer ones by well, more. The main downside I can see to this is that transfusion won’t heal you.

All this to ask, are you sure that vampiric wells are overpowered, and that it might not be wells themselves, especially paired with protection and chill, that aren’t what’s powerful? Because the numbers just don’t seem to add up, at all. Maybe you could make the argument that the trait is alright, or possibly even great, but op? Sorry, maybe this is just my inexperience with the traitline shining through, but it sounds wrong.

Also, I honestly don’t know how you do damage with that set-up. 200 condition damage, 0% crit damage, and the power isn’t anything special. I mean, you obviously can kill, as you’ve soloed the champ at marionette, which has a time limit. (Not that that’s all too special for those who understand game/encounter mechanics, but it’s not something to overlook either) Just seems more like a support build, and it looks like it could use some refining. Because using a scepter with 200 condition damage… that’s got to make some condition players cry, unless you only play in groups with direct damage players. I’m getting off topic now though so I’ll stop critiquing.

RashanDale.3609:

51% think that Full of life is Alright or Great
51% think that Mark of Evasion is Alright or Great
36% think Blood to Power is Alright or Great

O_o

Full of Life gives you 5s of regen (base) for 650 healing (base), in a tree that supports healing. That’s alright, in my build it easily heals for over 1.7k, which is decent for 5 points, and it’ll proc multiple times because of the other healing.

MoE is the exact same thing, 1.7k healing, only this time its now AoE (minions as well), and it will put down some helpful cover conditions with bleeds (which deal 850 damage with no CD investment).

Not great, but those are alright traits.

Luke.4562:

What I’m surprised to see it’s the result on Fetid Consumption.
Nobody made a research to discover the tooltip is uncorrect, that the Minion draws condition from nearby allies.. It’s not a bad trait but it’s NOT THAT good.

Any trait that can remove 6 conditions per 10 seconds is amazing. This is one of the very few times where Necromancers have a trait that is very similar to others (Empathic Bond), but is strictly better.

Bhawb.7408:

RashanDale.3609:

51% think that Full of life is Alright or Great
51% think that Mark of Evasion is Alright or Great
36% think Blood to Power is Alright or Great

O_o

Full of Life gives you 5s of regen (base) for 650 healing (base), in a tree that supports healing. That’s alright, in my build it easily heals for over 1.7k, which is decent for 5 points, and it’ll proc multiple times because of the other healing.

MoE is the exact same thing, 1.7k healing, only this time its now AoE (minions as well), and it will put down some helpful cover conditions with bleeds (which deal 850 damage with no CD investment).

Not great, but those are alright traits.

Luke.4562:

What I’m surprised to see it’s the result on Fetid Consumption.
Nobody made a research to discover the tooltip is uncorrect, that the Minion draws condition from nearby allies.. It’s not a bad trait but it’s NOT THAT good.

Any trait that can remove 6 conditions per 10 seconds is amazing. This is one of the very few times where Necromancers have a trait that is very similar to others (Empathic Bond), but is strictly better.

Actually its one of those, its amazing in the 3 situations in pve/wvwvw where you can even use it or overall in pvp, but bloody worthless everywhere else for other reasons that cripple its potential… Kinda like dhuumfire but thank god that its too passive and not on the enemy death screen or pvp would have caused something like putrid mark or plague signet nerfs, oh wait…

Dervo.9186:

All this to ask, are you sure that vampiric wells are overpowered

I never said vampiric wells are overpowered. Of course they are not. The health gain is very minor. It adds up, if used along side the protection. But I never said it was overpowered. :/

Dervo.9186:

Also, I honestly don’t know how you do damage with that set-up. 200 condition damage, 0% crit damage, and the power isn’t anything special. I mean, you obviously can kill, as you’ve soloed the champ at marionette, which has a time limit. (Not that that’s all too special for those who understand game/encounter mechanics, but it’s not something to overlook either)

I rely less on condition damage for starters. Also, someone simply asked for my build, and I quickly entered my general build into the build-maker. I mostly did it from memory, so don’t take it as the exact literal numbers of my build.

Dervo.9186:

Just seems more like a support build

It is. Both for my team and for myself. That was the goal.

Dervo.9186:

, and it looks like it could use some refining.

I said so didn’t I?

Dervo.9186:

Because using a scepter with 200 condition damage… that’s got to make some condition players cry, unless you only play in groups with direct damage players. I’m getting off topic now though so I’ll stop critiquing.

I don’t pvp, only pve. And in pve, the range of the scepter is extremely handy. Plus, the cripple aoe is very useful in slowing down mobs. That is the only reason I use it. I try to play it safe, and stay out of the melee range of bosses.

Sorry Mad Queen, I got confused with you and Yamedo. Not following the thread ftl. Sounds like you succeeded in your goal then, didn’t mean to imply it was bad but looking back it definitely came across that way.

I guess my only gripe with the build is that from the viewpoint of a condition specced player, you’re eating up a sizeable chunk of the 25 stacks of bleeding, with almost no condition damage to back it up. But I’ve forgotten an important detail that you brought up, and it’s that an axe/focus with staff build really requires the ability to spend a decent amount of time in death shroud to not have range/dps issues. So I see why you’d use scepter. We really need another weapon imo. A single handed weapon that’s more general use than the scepter, maybe with some decent utility for once.

@Mad Queen
Now im running around, using this well build thingy (not exactly the same as yours) and the amount of sustain it has is really impressive, BUT the damage is so low that it scares me. I’ve seen you in the latest Mari fight and the build proved itself but .. i don’t know .. Maybe i will give it a shot next time.

Dalanor.5387:

@Mad Queen
Now im running around, using this well build thingy (not exactly the same as yours) and the amount of sustain it has is really impressive, BUT the damage is so low that it scares me. I’ve seen you in the latest Mari fight and the build proved itself but .. i don’t know .. Maybe i will give it a shot next time.

It’s a work in progress. Perhaps some of the defensive sides of it can be toned down a little, and some of the damage upped. But that’s a case of fine tuning. My initial goal was simply to make a perfect tanking build, that would be able to face tank some of the toughest opponents in PVE, while keeping the rest of the team up. So far it seems to be making quite a big difference. It seems to keep my guildies up during dungeon runs, and during the Marionette event I can take quite a punch.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Dalanor.5387:

@Mad Queen
Now im running around, using this well build thingy (not exactly the same as yours) and the amount of sustain it has is really impressive, BUT the damage is so low that it scares me. I’ve seen you in the latest Mari fight and the build proved itself but .. i don’t know .. Maybe i will give it a shot next time.

It’s a work in progress. Perhaps some of the defensive sides of it can be toned down a little, and some of the damage upped. But that’s a case of fine tuning. My initial goal was simply to make a perfect tanking build, that would be able to face tank some of the toughest opponents in PVE, while keeping the rest of the team up. So far it seems to be making quite a big difference. It seems to keep my guildies up during dungeon runs, and during the Marionette event I can take quite a punch.

Maybe something like: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQNAndWjQaV6haeaM8JgpHdPu4QKyF3IFFPMA-jQCBofCiEIRkKAI1sIaslgCRVRasKbYqXCpaYRWKAYWWB-e – btw 24~ crit chance because: Spotter is 6%, Banner is 8%, Fury is 20%, Lich is 43% to a total of 101% crit chance. kinda nice to double your damage in such a way.
Runes, food and sigils obviously optional (i run the 3/3 lyssa mad king split on my default/fractal setup), energy is obviously a prime candidate, but after some time on most encounters (aka everything but liadri and her bugs) they werent really needed, so hydromancy (yay more chill and some damage) were a good cheap efficient alternative. For weapons you swap for whatever needed (D/WH being more of a DS build one, Axe/Dagger for team setup, and focus + anything for speedclears and dredge fractal). Difference between vamp on crit and transfuse aint high if you get used to how to use life transfer (as in near the end of DS), but sure does help more if you are gonna be in a sticky situation and team is fine with just WoB.
Also little note, the non focused rituals WoP works a bit better as a team cleanse for big bosses for some reason since it lingers 1 tick longer and some on heal traits doing tick off correctly with focused WoB.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQNAndWjQaV6daia8bKApCYP9o7xFHqQuUKKHdA-jgBBofCipmFRjt6SIq8SjVZDT9iIqGA-e

Transfusion can be changed to Mark of evasion if there are nobody who can provide regen. Tbh i have no idea for good runes. Maybe this 3 monk 3 water setup, to increase the protection duration, but i doubt that the investment worth it.
Going further into spite seemd pointless to me, the bonus healing power from the 15 point minor don’t even worth it. And i love Last gasp too much.
As i a mentioned, the sustain is great, you can facetank everything, if it can be blinded it’s even better, but the damage is so low, that in a dungeon your team will 4 man the whole instance.

How is withering precision considered bad? It’s stupidly strong vs power based classes in pvp, weakness makes thieves, mesmer and eles(and possibly warriors) cry so hard :s.
It’s like one of the best traits you can pick up to fight the current tpvp meta specs.

Vuh.1328:

How is withering precision considered bad? It’s stupidly strong vs power based classes in pvp, weakness makes thieves, mesmer and eles(and possibly warriors) cry so hard :s.
It’s like one of the best traits you can pick up to fight the current tpvp meta specs.

The issue isn’t necessarily that it’s bad. It’s that it doesn’t do enough for a GM slot.

Vuh.1328:

How is withering precision considered bad? It’s stupidly strong vs power based classes in pvp, weakness makes thieves, mesmer and eles(and possibly warriors) cry so hard :s.
It’s like one of the best traits you can pick up to fight the current tpvp meta specs.

Uptime on the trait is horrible. 5 seconds on a 20 icd?
After people have finally begun including condition cleanses in their builds?

It’s next to worthless.