Guild Wars 2

Hearing you and a few others talk about roaming WvW with vanilla necro and having success made me give it a try again.
I must say I’m loving it.
A lot of players have forgotten how hard hitting our lifeblast can be =/

To all other fellow roamers, give vanilla necro a try!
I’m currently using a rather standard build that was kind of popular back before HOT and its still pretty decent!

Unholy fervor trait with axe hits like a truck and I highly recommend it.

I would love to have feedback from the more seasoned vanilla necro roamers on my build though and see where I can make it better!

I’m currently unsure about

• Off-hand (I can’t decide between warhorn, dagger and focus)
• Runes (Strength runes were my Reaper runes to proc blighters boon for sustain but now seems less useful on a vanilla necro)
• Sigil (Strength sigils again were for my Reaper and I wonder if there is a better sigil for vanilla necros, maybe fire or energy?)

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNBHhZakjGKvxObw2GYvxRtQRfj5oMih9IUCw5MAmBA-TlCFABNpUYJlEA8EAKZ/hrUCWwpAIN9BFq+TSKxQSZwmhBghQEAv7uMNiYuDA-w

Happy to hear that! A little surprised you singled me out though, I think there are a couple others doing similar things.

Here is my current wvw build, I’ve had a lot of luck running it:

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vRUQNAW3djc0Oaqst22Sbsx3WaD/t/2RtQRHj5oahJQAMDyhYsDYA-TFDBQBQ4gIgGlg5R3QWUGUDNEaRpHAeAA8b/BFq+jEuAB+TDSAOCAbGGAGBhA8u7uzIy4CZAW3CA-w

It fairly seamlessly transitions between roaming and zergs, which allows me to act as a “detachment” and hit targets near the zerg that would not be a good use of the zerg’s time to attack.

Trinkets can be changed from soldier’s to berserker’s if DPS is more important than sustainability.

For offhands, I personally find that Warhorn is more consistent with the ambiguity of the daze and better against thieves, dagger is better against heavy conditions and decent against power builds slower than thief, and focus is better for higher burst damage when you aren’t the focus of an enemy (no pun intended).

I tend to like using Pack if solo, since Fury uptime is pretty important after stat-balancing is taken into account. Otherwise Strength is fine as always, as is something with higher defensive characteristics like Scrapper or Durability.

Sigils are pretty straightforward; Air and Fire are go-to for burst, but others like Agility and Rage with Axe and Shroud-swap can be potent and unexpected. I tend to enjoy the Agility sigils, since they feel like they have more play to them.

I looked into agility sigils at one point for the quickness boon when entering shroud. It would double Life Blast’s damage output for the first second, but I decided sigils of air and force were better for average DPS. One second of quickness is hard to take advantage of.

One of the complaints for axe on another thread was that it’s ranged-but-not-really and people can run away. Focus #5 is a fantastic skill since it removes 3 boons and applies chill. With so many boon stacking classes in today’s meta, being able to strip them is very important. Having a shorter cooldown for focus #5 goes a long way, I find myself landing the skill about twice as often as before the patch.

The OP did address that with Corrupt Boon, but I find a utility slot to be more precious than a weapon slot.

Hesacon.8735:

I looked into agility sigils at one point for the quickness boon when entering shroud. It would double Life Blast’s damage output for the first second, but I decided sigils of air and force were better for average DPS. One second of quickness is hard to take advantage of.

One of the complaints for axe on another thread was that it’s ranged-but-not-really and people can run away. Focus #5 is a fantastic skill since it removes 3 boons and applies chill. With so many boon stacking classes in today’s meta, being able to strip them is very important. Having a shorter cooldown for focus #5 goes a long way, I find myself landing the skill about twice as often as before the patch.

The OP did address that with Corrupt Boon, but I find a utility slot to be more precious than a weapon slot.

You have a lot of valid points, and I fully agree with your Agility sentiment, I just find it more entertaining to play with to a point. The big thing with Corrupt Boon and Spinal Shivers is that the classes where a boon strip is important usually also have resistance these days, so you could argue that while Corrupt Boon has higher uptime, Spinal Shivers also dealing damage is worth more when facing the statistical chance that the opponent keeps resistance and Corrupt Boon does nothing in comparison to the Shivers.

Zero Solstice.9754:

Hesacon.8735:

I looked into agility sigils at one point for the quickness boon when entering shroud. It would double Life Blast’s damage output for the first second, but I decided sigils of air and force were better for average DPS. One second of quickness is hard to take advantage of.

One of the complaints for axe on another thread was that it’s ranged-but-not-really and people can run away. Focus #5 is a fantastic skill since it removes 3 boons and applies chill. With so many boon stacking classes in today’s meta, being able to strip them is very important. Having a shorter cooldown for focus #5 goes a long way, I find myself landing the skill about twice as often as before the patch.

The OP did address that with Corrupt Boon, but I find a utility slot to be more precious than a weapon slot.

You have a lot of valid points, and I fully agree with your Agility sentiment, I just find it more entertaining to play with to a point. The big thing with Corrupt Boon and Spinal Shivers is that the classes where a boon strip is important usually also have resistance these days, so you could argue that while Corrupt Boon has higher uptime, Spinal Shivers also dealing damage is worth more when facing the statistical chance that the opponent keeps resistance and Corrupt Boon does nothing in comparison to the Shivers.

Corrupt boon has half the cast time and between 1 and 5 seconds less cooldown depending on traits, so it’s a mixed bag. I take spinal shivers personally, but I could understand a reason to run corrupt boon. The wvw forum is awash with people complaining about boons.

Well of corruption is another option that works well with power necros, either base or reaper. Of course wells are hard to use 1v1 since the target will almost always dodge roll out of them unless they expect to drop you by continuing to pressure.

Depending on situation, it might not be wrong to run all 3, especially as a roamer. Other roamers are always eager to engage a necro I’ve found.

Hesacon.8735:

Corrupt boon has half the cast time and between 1 and 5 seconds less cooldown depending on traits, so it’s a mixed bag. I take spinal shivers personally, but I could understand a reason to run corrupt boon. The wvw forum is awash with people complaining about boons.

Well of corruption is another option that works well with power necros, either base or reaper. Of course wells are hard to use 1v1 since the target will almost always dodge roll out of them unless they expect to drop you by continuing to pressure.

Depending on situation, it might not be wrong to run all 3, especially as a roamer. Other roamers are always eager to engage a necro I’ve found.

Well, to be fully fair, Corrupt Boon has between 1 and 10 seconds less of a cooldown depending on traits :P I love Wells for the potential burst, but the likelihood of landing it is somewhere in the ballpark of 15% on average, so meh. And at this juncture in time, I feel most people have no fear of base Necromancer because they know they aren’t packing most of the mobility/pressure of Reaper Shroud, although I personally almost only roam on base Necromancer if I have Flesh Wurm on my bar to help alleviate that a touch.

Are you roaming on base necro by choice or because you don’t have HoT? It’s just strange to forgo added mobility, personal stab, more cc options, and more chill by playing base necro. Even if they ever so slightly boosted axe and finally righted lifeblast, I just don’t know how you could compete with even necro’s own elite counterpart.

gavyne.6847:

Are you roaming on base necro by choice or because you don’t have HoT? It’s just strange to forgo added mobility, personal stab, more cc options, and more chill by playing base necro. Even if they ever so slightly boosted axe and finally righted lifeblast, I just don’t know how you could compete with even necro’s own elite counterpart.

Because the thing to remember is that it is a video game, and therefore for having fun. Just because Reaper is more optimal doesn’t mean it isn’t fun to go back and play with the core abilities. I personally enjoy every single part of the Necromancer class, including the more fickle playstyle and the burstier Shroud from time to time.

It’s also fun to kill people on something that has a public perception of being so subpar.

Very well, that’s a good reason to play baseline necro, and I agree I myself have done that on occasion just for fun as well. I just wanted to know the reason others play baseline necros and their praises of axe as a weapon (even though it’s still an inferior weapon).

gavyne.6847:

Are you roaming on base necro by choice or because you don’t have HoT? It’s just strange to forgo added mobility, personal stab, more cc options, and more chill by playing base necro. Even if they ever so slightly boosted axe and finally righted lifeblast, I just don’t know how you could compete with even necro’s own elite counterpart.

I do have HoT, marauder gear requires HoT to craft.

The thing with base necro and reaper is they are different play styles. The main thing I like about base necro is the range. I’ve played around with both and between the range and the underwhelming reaper trait line and utilities, I’d rather stick with base necro. It always feels like I take way more damage at close range and I hate dying.

There are times in wvw where I will drop base necro for reaper, for example when I need to solo a tower (gravedigger spam is a thing) or feel like playing condi that day, but most of reaper’s advantages are done better by other classes.

Really the deciding factor is I find spite, soul reaping and death magic to all be better trait lines than reaper for general utility. I’ve played around swapping all 3 for reaper and I haven’t found a combination I like.

Zero Solstice.9754:

It’s also fun to kill people on something that has a public perception of being so subpar.

I’ve noticed a lot of people will rage-quit the game before I stomp them. It’s like they’re embarrassed they were downed to an axe-wielding base power necro. Recently I’d say around 1/5 of my 1v1 stomps have ended this way. I don’t get any wxp or bags, but I get this story I can tell.

I think part of the problem is that power reapers have fallen behind a bit in the power curve. It’s not as competitive as many other elite specs or their condi reaper counterpart. Might explain the reason why some find success with baseline necros, as you do gain the added range advantage. For fighting a class like DH and not having to get trapped, unlike power reapers do, that helps.

The only two classes that really give me grief are engineer and condi warrior, and they give everyone grief.

Zero Solstice.9754:

For offhands, I personally find that Warhorn is more consistent with the ambiguity of the daze and better against thieves, dagger is better against heavy conditions and decent against power builds slower than thief, and focus is better for higher burst damage when you aren’t the focus of an enemy (no pun intended).

I tend to like using Pack if solo, since Fury uptime is pretty important after stat-balancing is taken into account. Otherwise Strength is fine as always, as is something with higher defensive characteristics like Scrapper or Durability.

Sigils are pretty straightforward; Air and Fire are go-to for burst, but others like Agility and Rage with Axe and Shroud-swap can be potent and unexpected. I tend to enjoy the Agility sigils, since they feel like they have more play to them.

Thanks for the thoughts! This was very insightful.

gavyne.6847:

Are you roaming on base necro by choice or because you don’t have HoT? It’s just strange to forgo added mobility, personal stab, more cc options, and more chill by playing base necro. Even if they ever so slightly boosted axe and finally righted lifeblast, I just don’t know how you could compete with even necro’s own elite counterpart.

I strongly recommend to try vanilla necro again if u r into wvw solo roaming. Most players have forgotten how hard our lifeblasts are. They forgotten how to time their dodge. I tried yesterday and dropped 3 daredevils in a row who used to kite and kill my reaper easily.

But one thing i found about vanilla necro is that it was much harder to build lifeforce compared to reaper. Reaper had 2 traits that helped immensely with lifeforce generation.

I opted for warhorn and traited staff mainly for lifeforce reasons but it still seemed lacklustre compared to reaper

EremiteAngel.9765:

But one thing i found about vanilla necro is that it was much harder to build lifeforce compared to reaper. Reaper had 2 traits that helped immensely with lifeforce generation.

I opted for warhorn and traited staff mainly for lifeforce reasons but it still seemed lacklustre compared to reaper

In spvp you’re right, especially since you start the match at 0. I would never use base necro in spvp. Wvw is different though, if you’re part of a zerg then people are dying and you’re gaining life force. If you’re roaming, you can kill ambient mobs between targets and enter a camp or engagement with another roamer with a full bar.

Actually, I normally use core Necromancer in WvW.
Reaper is far better at PvE than WvW.

Tbh, I would go back to my “vanilla” Necro build in a heartbeat if it had a leap… That’s literally the only thing I’d miss from Reaper, haha… I’m weird.

Mea.5491:

Tbh, I would go back to my “vanilla” Necro build in a heartbeat if it had a leap… That’s literally the only thing I’d miss from Reaper, haha… I’m weird.

If I could keep a greatsword and use vanilla necro stuff, I would be quite tempted

Mea.5491:

Tbh, I would go back to my “vanilla” Necro build in a heartbeat if it had a leap… That’s literally the only thing I’d miss from Reaper, haha… I’m weird.

i would return if lb was faster, i forgot how slow that thing was

Brokensunday.4098:

Mea.5491:

Tbh, I would go back to my “vanilla” Necro build in a heartbeat if it had a leap… That’s literally the only thing I’d miss from Reaper, haha… I’m weird.

i would return if lb was faster, i forgot how slow that thing was

Per the wiki…

Life blast hits up to 5 targets with a damage multiplier of 1.4 every 1.4 seconds.

Life rend hits 3-3-5 targets with damage multipliers of 0.6-0.6-1.2 every 2.5 seconds (but can also recover up to 7.5% life force).

Life Blast: 5 targets * 1.4 damage / 1.4 seconds = 5
Life Rend: ( 3 targets * 0.6 damage + 3 * 0.6 + 5 * 1.2 ) / 2.5 seconds = 3.84

5/3.84 ~= 1.3, so if max targets are hit you would expect life blast to do 30% more damage.

For a single target…

Life Blast 1.4 / 1.4 = 1
Life Rend ( 0.6 + 0.6 + 1.2 ) / 2.5 = 0.96

1/0.96 = 1.04, so on a single target you would expect to do 4% more damage than life rend.

However life blast is a projectile that can be reflected. It’s telegraphed so it can be dodged. Life rend is likely to land something through a dodge, but it’s melee so you have to be close.

Reaper’s Onslaught adds 15% attack speed to the sequence. which makes multi-targets close (and probably better because getting 5 targets in a line is not a practical kitten in a pile) and puts it ahead for a single target.

Unless the numbers on the wiki for sequence time are wrong, which they very well may be.

tl;dr: damage is close either way, take personal preference on how you’re comfortable playing.

Hesacon.8735:

The only two classes that really give me grief are engineer and condi warrior, and they give everyone grief.

How do you kill a good druid as baseline necro?

gavyne.6847:

Hesacon.8735:

The only two classes that really give me grief are engineer and condi warrior, and they give everyone grief.

How do you kill a good druid as baseline necro?

You can’t. Reapers/Necros got no chance in WvW against a good druid. Zero. no chance.

EremiteAngel.9765:

gavyne.6847:

Hesacon.8735:

The only two classes that really give me grief are engineer and condi warrior, and they give everyone grief.

How do you kill a good druid as baseline necro?

You can’t. Reapers/Necros got no chance in WvW against a good druid. Zero. no chance.

Why’s that? (Never have done much WvW)

EremiteAngel.9765:

gavyne.6847:

Hesacon.8735:

The only two classes that really give me grief are engineer and condi warrior, and they give everyone grief.

How do you kill a good druid as baseline necro?

You can’t. Reapers/Necros got no chance in WvW against a good druid. Zero. no chance.

On flat ground you’re pretty hosed, but there are three ways to resolve the fight and not lose.

• Fear them off one of the many cliffs on alpine/desert borderlands to their death (win)
• Fear them off a wall somewhere they can’t climb back from and run away (draw)
• Compel them to fight you in the water where necros are quite good and druids not so much (win)

All 3 have more to do with utilizing terrain than classes, though.

EremiteAngel.9765:

Hearing you and a few others talk about roaming WvW with vanilla necro and having success made me give it a try again.
I must say I’m loving it.
A lot of players have forgotten how hard hitting our lifeblast can be =/

To all other fellow roamers, give vanilla necro a try!
I’m currently using a rather standard build that was kind of popular back before HOT and its still pretty decent!

Unholy fervor trait with axe hits like a truck and I highly recommend it.

I would love to have feedback from the more seasoned vanilla necro roamers on my build though and see where I can make it better!

I’m currently unsure about

• Off-hand (I can’t decide between warhorn, dagger and focus)
• Runes (Strength runes were my Reaper runes to proc blighters boon for sustain but now seems less useful on a vanilla necro)
• Sigil (Strength sigils again were for my Reaper and I wonder if there is a better sigil for vanilla necros, maybe fire or energy?)

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNBHhZakjGKvxObw2GYvxRtQRfj5oMih9IUCw5MAmBA-TlCFABNpUYJlEA8EAKZ/hrUCWwpAIN9BFq+TSKxQSZwmhBghQEAv7uMNiYuDA-w

Always have time for a power necro running Vanilla – good stuff