Updated Necromancer PvE hybrid?
30/10/0/0/30
full zerker
Nemesis Hybrid was never rly good and it did never “excellent dmg”. It was only “ok”.
If u rly want to play Hybrid, use Dagger Staff or Dagger/Scepter. But it is still worse then Berserker for dps (but more defensiv stats if u use celestial).
To make hybridbuilds “viable” we will need a better statcombination then rampager, with power or conditiondmg as mainstat.
(edited by Norjena.5172)
30/10/0/0/30
full zerker
How do Berserker weapons do condition damage exactly?
Nemesis Hybrid was never rly good and it did never “excellent dmg”. It was only “ok”.
If u rly want to play Hybrid, use Dagger Staff or Dagger/Scepter. But it is still worse then Berserker for dps (but more defensiv stats if u use celestial).
To make hybridbuilds “viable” we will need a better statcombination then rampager, with power or conditiondmg as mainstat.
Why Staff? It’s damage is terrible. It’s not good for stacking bleeds. I don’t see how it improves the Nemesis build at all.
30/10/0/0/30
full zerkerHow do Berserker weapons do condition damage exactly?
Nemesis Hybrid was never rly good and it did never “excellent dmg”. It was only “ok”.
If u rly want to play Hybrid, use Dagger Staff or Dagger/Scepter. But it is still worse then Berserker for dps (but more defensiv stats if u use celestial).
To make hybridbuilds “viable” we will need a better statcombination then rampager, with power or conditiondmg as mainstat.Why Staff? It’s damage is terrible. It’s not good for stacking bleeds. I don’t see how it improves the Nemesis build at all.
First point: Zerk gear doesn’t benefit condition damage naturally, it has no +condition damage. We take zerker gear because condition damage is severely lackluster in a pvE setting (refer to the countless posts explaining why for further info)
Essentially this is what it boils down too. As has already been stated in this thread (and Spoj’s admirable guide advising how to build lackluster pvE necros as viable as possible in his sticky’d guide) this is the most optimal way to play a necro in pvE. Anything other than this build, you can essentially use whatever build you want. Any sort of trait distribution or gear stats that aren’t what’s posted above are irrelevant. Either you build optimally for pvE, or you play and build however you want. It’s up to you, most pvE content in this game is pretty mindless.
Personally, I like being optimal, so I either play a more pvE viable class, or if I am going to take my Necro, I’m utilizing a build that makes me as optimal as possible. This build is the one stated above (6/6/0/0/2, full berserker, dagger + WH and focus)
Edit: Simply inputting my opinion here; while I found Nemesis’ videos entertaining, regardless if his builds were ever considered viable, they certainly aren’t now. If you insist on building your necro around that idea, that’s fine, as long as you’re aware that necros are already severely lacking in the utility department when it comes to dungeons/pvE. Limiting your damage by building condi just makes an already unviable class even less desirable to your group.
(edited by dwillikers.2348)
Yes, I know Berserker stats don’t offer condition damage. I was giving a sarcastic response to his unhelpful comment.
Your general argument is off-base though.
Everyone knows power builds deal more damage than condition builds. But to then turn around and say all condition builds are the same is nonsense. Some condition builds do more damage than other condition builds.
By your logic, I could say that because Necromancers are the worst dungeon class in the game, your build doesn’t matter at all and you might as well run all signets.
Obviously the goal is to optimize your build with a given set of parameters. Power Necros want to maximize their damage using a dagger. Condi Necros want to do the best possible condition damage.
So please, don’t tell me to run a Berserker build. I have a good Berserker build that I run.
I also want to play a hybrid-condi Necro because it’s fun and does something better than other classes. I use it to kill husks in Triple Trouble, for instance.
Yes, I know Berserker stats don’t offer condition damage. I was giving a sarcastic response to his unhelpful comment.
Your general argument is off-base though.
Everyone knows power builds deal more damage than condition builds. But to then turn around and say all condition builds are the same is nonsense. Some condition builds do more damage than other condition builds.
By your logic, I could say that because Necromancers are the worst dungeon class in the game, your build doesn’t matter at all and you might as well run all signets.
Obviously the goal is to optimize your build with a given set of parameters. Power Necros want to maximize their damage using a dagger. Condi Necros want to do the best possible condition damage.
So please, don’t tell me to run a Berserker build. I have a good Berserker build that I run.
I also want to play a hybrid-condi Necro because it’s fun and does something better than other classes. I use it to kill husks in Triple Trouble, for instance.
I can only assume you just skimmed my post. I already stated you can either build optimally or for fun. I’m just saying that if you don’t build optimally, yes, your build is irrelevant as far as I’m concerned. Maybe it’s black and white, but to me, you either run a build that’s capable of maximizing your damage or you don’t. You’re electing for the latter, which is fine. I was just merely pointing you that, be aware that if you choose this route, you’re electing to take a class that is already innately sub-par in pvE content, leaving damage our only real method to make up for this, and running a condi build only makes you even less optimal, due to it’s inferior damage.
If you still want to run a condi build knowing this, then by all means, go for it. Like I said, most pvE content, barring some exceptions, is pretty faceroll. I was merely posting to be sure you were aware that a condi build in pvE is unviable, in case you had the desire to be optimal to your group, like I always do.
But then we play the game to have fun. If being optimal to your group isn’t fun for you, then don’t do it.
Yes, I know Berserker stats don’t offer condition damage. I was giving a sarcastic response to his unhelpful comment.
Your general argument is off-base though.
Everyone knows power builds deal more damage than condition builds. But to then turn around and say all condition builds are the same is nonsense. Some condition builds do more damage than other condition builds.
By your logic, I could say that because Necromancers are the worst dungeon class in the game, your build doesn’t matter at all and you might as well run all signets.
Obviously the goal is to optimize your build with a given set of parameters. Power Necros want to maximize their damage using a dagger. Condi Necros want to do the best possible condition damage.
So please, don’t tell me to run a Berserker build. I have a good Berserker build that I run.
I also want to play a hybrid-condi Necro because it’s fun and does something better than other classes. I use it to kill husks in Triple Trouble, for instance.
I can only assume you just skimmed my post. I already stated you can either build optimally or for fun. I’m just saying that if you don’t build optimally, yes, your build is irrelevant as far as I’m concerned. Maybe it’s black and white, but to me, you either run a build that’s capable of maximizing your damage or you don’t. You’re electing for the latter, which is fine. I was just merely pointing you that, be aware that if you choose this route, you’re electing to take a class that is already innately sub-par in pvE content, leaving damage our only real method to make up for this, and running a condi build only makes you even less optimal, due to it’s inferior damage.
If you still want to run a condi build knowing this, then by all means, go for it. Like I said, most pvE content, barring some exceptions, is pretty faceroll. I was merely posting to be sure you were aware that a condi build in pvE is unviable, in case you had the desire to be optimal to your group, like I always do.
But then we play the game to have fun. If being optimal to your group isn’t fun for you, then don’t do it.
No, I read your entire post. It was every bit as useless to me as this last one.
You apparently cannot understand the concept that some condition builds are better than others and I would prefer a better one. So instead of helping me with this, you elected to give me the patronizing “but berserker is the only optimal build” line.
OK so you want a hybrid build and no one is answering you
6/6/x/x/x Would be your best bet utilizing our dps trait lines
As far as gear goes you can mix in Carrion/Zerker to get yourself close to 2k power and as much Condition dmg as possible after that
If you can get 2k power with respectable precision/ferocity than close to death is an option if not dhuumfire – parasitic contagion will not increase dps just survivability which is not needed once you master the PvE engagments
Weapons? Scepter/Dagger along with Axe or Dagger / Warhorn would be my guess – Nemesis used Axe – Staff is weak and slow I never use it anymore
I believe for a hybrid to reach its full potential you would need might stacking so Blood is Power along with Reapers Might along with Aristocrat runes seems like a good bet
Nemesis video while old and “outdated” is still a good source for a hybrid build – not much has changed for a Necromancer since that video
lol if u dont want to be optimal just do what u want play how u want why bother asking on the forums?
play how u want!
OK so you want a hybrid build and no one is answering you
6/6/x/x/x Would be your best bet utilizing our dps trait lines
As far as gear goes you can mix in Carrion/Zerker to get yourself close to 2k power and as much Condition dmg as possible after that
If you can get 2k power with respectable precision/ferocity than close to death is an option if not dhuumfire – parasitic contagion will not increase dps just survivability which is not needed once you master the PvE engagments
Weapons? Scepter/Dagger along with Axe or Dagger / Warhorn would be my guess – Nemesis used Axe – Staff is weak and slow I never use it anymore
I believe for a hybrid to reach its full potential you would need might stacking so Blood is Power along with Reapers Might along with Aristocrat runes seems like a good bet
Nemesis video while old and “outdated” is still a good source for a hybrid build – not much has changed for a Necromancer since that video
Nemesis’s build calls for Scepter/Dagger and Axe/Focus. Has the Warhorn buff made it better than Focus?
Edit: I like the idea of Aristocrat runes. But what about Rune of the Mad King? Rune of the Adventurer too maybe?
(edited by Wisp.9725)
I would still go for Focus. The Zerker build uses warhorn only if Focus is worn as well. The burst damage and the vulnurability should provide good burst of power damage for you. I would try using dagger instead of axe, as it has better life force regen and higher damage. Even with Axe Mastery, I think daggershroud should be superior to axeshroud in terms of damage when counting the time spent out of death shroud.
I would still go for Focus. The Zerker build uses warhorn only if Focus is worn as well. The burst damage and the vulnurability should provide good burst of power damage for you. I would try using dagger instead of axe, as it has better life force regen and higher damage. Even with Axe Mastery, I think daggershroud should be superior to axeshroud in terms of damage when counting the time spent out of death shroud.
I think Axe works better for a hybrid build because you can stack bleeds with Ghastly Claws very quickly. The skill rotation also calls for never using the Axe autoattack and only staying in Death Shroud briefly between Ghastly Claws. I think that rotation would do more damage than dagger autoattack, but I suppose I should test it.
dagger autoattack is the highest necro dps.
As a side note, hybrid builds are bad both for condi and direct damage, at least in pve.
If you’re on EU and need help to get into dungeons, pm me.
dagger autoattack is the highest necro dps.
As a side note, hybrid builds are bad both for condi and direct damage, at least in pve.
I’m well aware of the disadvantages of a hybrid build, I’m just trying to see what changes can be made to improve the build Nemesis made a year ago.
Even if dagger autoattack does more damage than Ghastly Claws (I doubt that), it’s still not going to proc as many bleeds which is kind of the point of the build. You stack bleed with scepter, then switch to burst but still maintain some bleeding thanks to Barbed Precision and Sigil of Earth.
It seems like everyone agrees Runes of Divinity and Celestial trinkets are bad value overall and should be replaced. So if we go with Berserker trinkets, what’s the best armor set? Carrion better than Rabid? Vitality is kinda crappy compared to Toughness but Power probably serves this build better than Precision. Then there’s the runes. Someone suggested Rune of the Aristocracy, which seems interesting. But Rune of the Mad King could also work? I’m not sure.
Ghastly claws is low dps. Dagger auto passively stacks a lot of bleeds. If you combine that with warhorn you can sustain about 10 stacks of bleed just from passive procs. If i was to build a hybrid now it would probably be d/w + d/d with rampager gear and strength runes and using signets for might.
The best choices for runes are strength or aristocracy. But in a hybrid build you will want too focus on power slightly more. Thats why i chose strength. However you can get 6 stacks of might when using the heal signet if you use aristocracy. So either would be fine.
The reason for rampager is simple. Necro lacks crit chance in most sistuations. Assassins armour is better than beserkers in most situations for a power build. So the same can be said for a hybrid build. You are simply swapping crit damage for condi damage and keeping the high precision.
(edited by spoj.9672)
Ghastly claws is low dps. Dagger auto passively stacks a lot of bleeds. If you combine that with warhorn you can sustain about 10 stacks of bleed just from passive procs. If i was to build a hybrid now it would probably be d/w + d/d with rampager gear and strength runes and using signets for might.
The best choices for runes are strength or aristocracy. But in a hybrid build you will want too focus on power slightly more. Thats why i chose strength. However you can get 6 stacks of might when using the heal signet if you use aristocracy. So either would be fine.
The reason for rampager is simple. Necro lacks crit chance in most sistuations. Assassins armour is better than beserkers in most situations for a power build. So the same can be said for a hybrid build. You are simply swapping crit damage for condi damage and keeping the high precision.
This is a cool build, but I wish there was some way to incorporate Scepter. Couldn’t you use Scepter 2 and Dagger 5 off cooldown then rotate back to Dagger and autoattack? Signet of Spite followed by Feast of Corruption is a decent bit of burst too.
Would Aristocracy runes and all Berserker trinkets be a suitable budget option? Not sure I want to pour 60g into strength runes.
(edited by Wisp.9725)
If u use Scepter u have a weaponset with nearly no direct dmg. Thats bad for a hybrid.
And the reason why i use Staff+Dagger, but probably spoj build is better because of the easier rotation even if there are less bleeds.
With staff+dagger u have both on both sets. Direct dmg and conditiondmg. Staff 2/3>DS1, and Dagger AA on the other weaponset.
If u use Scepter u have a weaponset with nearly no direct dmg. Thats bad for a hybrid.
And the reason why i use Staff+Dagger, but probably spoj build is better because of the easier rotation even if there are less bleeds.
With staff+dagger u have both on both sets. Direct dmg and conditiondmg. Staff 2/3>DS1, and Dagger AA on the other weaponset.
The direct damage comes from the dagger autoattack.
Rotation would be Scepter 2, Dagger 5, Signet of Spite, Feast of Corruption, weapon switch, Warhorn 5, dagger autoattack until all scepter/dagger skills off cooldown. That seems like not bad damage to me. Obviously not going to be as good as a full zerk build, but it’s something.
Edit: Spoj, here is my proposed edit of your build. What do you think?
(edited by Wisp.9725)
The swapping to aristocracy and berserker trinkets is fine. Im not sure what would be the best choice in that regard. However the problem with going scepter is it would lock you into a very poor weapon for 10 seconds. When playing condi most of the condition application comes from skills like scepter 2, dagger 5, BiP and DS 2 + 5. You could start with scepter dagger and then camp d/w. So you would be bursting the condi application. However scepter 2 + dagger 5 on its own does not apply that many condis. So i dont feel its worth while. The only merit to having scepter in the rotation is for poison. But thats probably not worth sacrificing the faster high dps high bleed proc dagger auto for.
Krait Runes are good too, if u get might from others. U can easiliy get the 100% bonus bleed duration.
With Sigils 15+ Bleeds are possibel. And it´s cheap, important for a “funbuild” in my eyes xD.
(edited by Norjena.5172)
Even if you only use Ghastly Claws in Axe you will still do less damage than Dagger auto, and as spoj said you can stack bleed pretty good on Dagger too. The damage of the auto attack would probably be more than enough compensate the arguably little amount of stacks you lose from swapping to dagger from axe – if any. If you absolutely need a channel attack to stack bleeds I would say Dagger 2 is a comparable option to Ghastly Claws, but I’d just stick with auto now that you can hit 2 enemies.