Guild Wars 2

Its a pretty involved topic that has been around for a long time now. Probably since launch but its hard for me to say since I started a few months late. At the time it popped up from time to time and it has since gained popularity. I’ve made the suggestions on multiple occasions to grant us utility in Death shroud considering that a few of our weaknesses in Death shroud come from not having utility. And by a few, I mean crippling weaknesses that seriously hinder the classes overall usability. Not a weakness that you can over come through skill like low health on an elementalist.

What Benefit is there from having utility in death shroud though and how should it be balanced? Originally Death shroud Skills apart from their auto attack(though it might have included their auto) used to cost life force to be used. This gave the mechanic more of a push pull feel to it and during the alpha stages of the necromancer it made death shroud feel rewarding to use and play well. Although this also meant that they were extremely complex. Probably not something Arena net wanted for the profession at the time. I’m of the personal opinion that complexity in itself isn’t a bad thing as long as it increases depth. The idea of “Life for power” that the necromancer is supposed to embody should be a real part of the necromancer. So the suggestion for balance should be that most utility skills on the necromancer should have a life force cost.

Added to this, I also think that Elite skills and the heal skill should be usable in Death shroud. Or just Shroud as anet is calling it now. Why the heal? well, I don’t think the heal should actually heal you. Maybe heal up your death shroud a bit, but not your health. Giving you some benefit from it that it can provide without it being a useless skill. This would allow you to summon your Blood fiend or trigger the signet of vampirism’s active ability. Even using something like Consume condition to remove conditions could be a viable option and grants the user with extremely interesting choices beyond just the utility. Allowing us access to the elite as well could be interesting. Rather than having the elite while your in death shroud, elites that transform you would just drop you out of death shroud when activated. So you could still summon flesh golem or enter Lich form to save time.

Some skill would have to be changed. Such as many of the spectral skills since they might be a bit powerful when activated in Death shroud. Other than that, having skills that cost a bit of life force while using shroud would be an excellent balance for it. Either turtle in Death shroud a bit longer, or burn it down quicker by using your skills. The choice becomes yours and will reward skilled players and still teach new players at the same time.

This also opens up new types of traits that trigger on spending life force granting more unique design for the profession. It also adds another layer of balance that can be used. if a skills is too powerful in Death shroud you can adjust numbers, recharge, cast time or even life force cost. Ultimately, it would help our overall power as well as could be health for our balance in the long run.

Being able to use utilities during shroud wouldn’t really be OP or anything. You can already drop wells and go into shroud for death perception. You can already activate a spectral skill and then go into shroud. Being able to use them during it would add a little more flexibility but it wouldn’t add entirely new things that we couldn’t do before.

It would allow signets to have persisting passives. It would allow minions to use their actives while in ds (or summon them). If anet wants shroud to be a 2nd health bar, then like our first one, it should allow utilities (elites and even heal skills) to be used in shroud. It only makes sense.

Khristophoros.7194:

Being able to use utilities during shroud wouldn’t really be OP or anything. You can already drop wells and go into shroud for death perception. You can already activate a spectral skill and then go into shroud. Being able to use them during it would add a little more flexibility but it wouldn’t add entirely new things that we couldn’t do before.

You skip a step by doing this. It makes everything allot quicker. I don’t think it would be OP either. I recognize that the power while in Death shroud and out of it is quite significant at the moment, being out of it is more powerful at the moment even with death perception. But the scale could be tipped if changed over. Which is completely fine since Shroud is still a resource that can be depleted.

Lily.1935:

Khristophoros.7194:

Being able to use utilities during shroud wouldn’t really be OP or anything. You can already drop wells and go into shroud for death perception. You can already activate a spectral skill and then go into shroud. Being able to use them during it would add a little more flexibility but it wouldn’t add entirely new things that we couldn’t do before.

You skip a step by doing this. It makes everything allot quicker. I don’t think it would be OP either. I recognize that the power while in Death shroud and out of it is quite significant at the moment, being out of it is more powerful at the moment even with death perception. But the scale could be tipped if changed over. Which is completely fine since Shroud is still a resource that can be depleted.

What I meant was it’s more of a QoL buff, being able to do the things we already do more easily/faster. It doesn’t add anything radical so it shouldn’t break the game.

Khristophoros.7194:

Lily.1935:

Khristophoros.7194:

Being able to use utilities during shroud wouldn’t really be OP or anything. You can already drop wells and go into shroud for death perception. You can already activate a spectral skill and then go into shroud. Being able to use them during it would add a little more flexibility but it wouldn’t add entirely new things that we couldn’t do before.

You skip a step by doing this. It makes everything allot quicker. I don’t think it would be OP either. I recognize that the power while in Death shroud and out of it is quite significant at the moment, being out of it is more powerful at the moment even with death perception. But the scale could be tipped if changed over. Which is completely fine since Shroud is still a resource that can be depleted.

What I meant was it’s more of a QoL buff, being able to do the things we already do more easily/faster. It doesn’t add anything radical so it shouldn’t break the game.

Oh, No it wouldn’t. I don’t disagree with you. But Spectral skills do become allot stronger as it won’t require you to drop DS to activate and they could actively add to your pool. Such as spectral grasp suddenly gives you 15% health and its animation is harder to see with the shroud smoke. Its easy to say that its the same in theory, but in practice its a different store. Also have to consider the ability to stunbreak while in DS is huge.

But again, I’m not disagreeing with you.

Lily.1935:

Khristophoros.7194:

Lily.1935:

Khristophoros.7194:

Being able to use utilities during shroud wouldn’t really be OP or anything. You can already drop wells and go into shroud for death perception. You can already activate a spectral skill and then go into shroud. Being able to use them during it would add a little more flexibility but it wouldn’t add entirely new things that we couldn’t do before.

You skip a step by doing this. It makes everything allot quicker. I don’t think it would be OP either. I recognize that the power while in Death shroud and out of it is quite significant at the moment, being out of it is more powerful at the moment even with death perception. But the scale could be tipped if changed over. Which is completely fine since Shroud is still a resource that can be depleted.

What I meant was it’s more of a QoL buff, being able to do the things we already do more easily/faster. It doesn’t add anything radical so it shouldn’t break the game.

Oh, No it wouldn’t. I don’t disagree with you. But Spectral skills do become allot stronger as it won’t require you to drop DS to activate and they could actively add to your pool. Such as spectral grasp suddenly gives you 15% health and its animation is harder to see with the shroud smoke. Its easy to say that its the same in theory, but in practice its a different store. Also have to consider the ability to stunbreak while in DS is huge.

But again, I’m not disagreeing with you.

This would actually make us strong, so sadly, it’s unlikely to happen :/ WHY, ANET, WHYYYY

ANet is definitely being very, very careful with changing Death Shroud. Apparently that’s because it’s a difficult mechanic for newbies to deal with in PvP?
Honestly, complete BS.

Tbh, their priority on Necromancers should be in PvE buffs, not PvP.

PvP is endgame, not PvE, so their focus lying on that game mode is not a wrong decision. but even in PvP necro doesn’t shine, especially not in group utility.

a “difficult mechanic for newbies” is a bad excuse that has been used for a couple of things in the past. as i said, with PvP being endgame there is no reason to cater towards newbies.

I’m going to go against the grain and say I don’t want it. Shroud is a transform and transforms shouldn’t have access to utilities.

Shroud shouldn’t function as a transform in general. Make it work like a weapon and health bar swap, half the total amount of DS, and that would fix 80% of the problems with the mechanic. The remaining 20% would be skill fixes.

meow one twenty.4376:

I’m going to go against the grain and say I don’t want it. Shroud is a transform and transforms shouldn’t have access to utilities.

Give it some time. You’ll come around. They always do.

zapv.8051:

Shroud shouldn’t function as a transform in general. Make it work like a weapon and health bar swap, and that would fix 80% of the problems with the mechanic. The remaining 20% would be skill fixes.

Fixed

meow one twenty.4376:

I’m going to go against the grain and say I don’t want it. Shroud is a transform and transforms shouldn’t have access to utilities.

They have been screaming at us that’s it is extra HP with additional skills constantly so your argument is invalid.

zapv.8051:

Shroud shouldn’t function as a transform in general. Make it work like a weapon and health bar swap, half the total amount of DS, and that would fix 80% of the problems with the mechanic. The remaining 20% would be skill fixes.

Honestly, I hate that people are suggesting cutting LF in half. It is supposed to be a sustain mechanic. MAKE IT A FREAKING SUSTAIN MECHANIC. I don’t want necros to be like every kittening class out there. We shouldn’t be bursty. Death is slow but inevitable and doesn’t go down easily. Need an invisibility cloak to escape it. kitten turning necros into a burst class. Make us what we were meant to be. A durable attrition class. For kitten’s sake. Is that such a bad thing?

I’m sorry for being so snappy, but kitten , people. Stop trying to make us like every other Zerk class out there. Necros have the opportunity and the inherent design philosophy to be something else. Something that, no, doesn’t do burst damage. But will outlive other classes regardless of situation

signet pasives and utilities would be awsome or even give us new utilities only in ds
sadly it will never happen

Vydahr.4285:

zapv.8051:

Shroud shouldn’t function as a transform in general. Make it work like a weapon and health bar swap, half the total amount of DS, and that would fix 80% of the problems with the mechanic. The remaining 20% would be skill fixes.

Honestly, I hate that people are suggesting cutting LF in half. It is supposed to be a sustain mechanic. MAKE IT A FREAKING SUSTAIN MECHANIC. I don’t want necros to be like every kittening class out there. We shouldn’t be bursty. Death is slow but inevitable and doesn’t go down easily. Need an invisibility cloak to escape it. kitten turning necros into a burst class. Make us what we were meant to be. A durable attrition class. For kitten’s sake. Is that such a bad thing?

I’m sorry for being so snappy, but kitten , people. Stop trying to make us like every other Zerk class out there. Necros have the opportunity and the inherent design philosophy to be something else. Something that, no, doesn’t do burst damage. But will outlive other classes regardless of situation

Wrong thread. No one here suggested cutting the life force pool.

Lily.1935:

Wrong thread. No one here suggested cutting the life force pool.

Incorrect.

zapv.8051:

Shroud shouldn’t function as a transform in general. Make it work like a weapon and health bar swap, half the total amount of DS, and that would fix 80% of the problems with the mechanic. The remaining 20% would be skill fixes.

Malchior.1928:

Lily.1935:

Wrong thread. No one here suggested cutting the life force pool.

Incorrect.

zapv.8051:

Shroud shouldn’t function as a transform in general. Make it work like a weapon and health bar swap, half the total amount of DS, and that would fix 80% of the problems with the mechanic. The remaining 20% would be skill fixes.

Thank you Malchior. I’ve seen the suggestion in other threads and the fact that the idea is spreading is irksome. LF is supposed to act like a second health bar and a sustain mechanic. Anet needs to follow through with this instead of keeping on with their kitten attempts to make it work as is (a weird hybrid of sustain and burst)

Sagat.3285:

meow one twenty.4376:

I’m going to go against the grain and say I don’t want it. Shroud is a transform and transforms shouldn’t have access to utilities.

They have been screaming at us that’s it is extra HP with additional skills constantly so your argument is invalid.

“Additional skills” doesn’t include taking away all existing skills. It’s a transform and the proof of that is that it can overwrite already existing transforms, something only a transform can do. Anyone can call it whatever they please but its function is that of a transform.

If they wanted it to be something different it should have been an F1-F6 mechanic, F1 Shroud activation and F2-F6 for skills.

meow one twenty.4376:

“Additional skills” doesn’t include taking away all existing skills. It’s a transform and the proof of that is that it can overwrite already existing transforms, something only a transform can do. Anyone can call it whatever they please but its function is that of a transform.

If they wanted it to be something different it should have been an F1-F6 mechanic, F1 Shroud activation and F2-F6 for skills.

Originally, shroud was our downstate. It had 4 skills and that is it. Anet didn’t like that idea, so they changed it. Made it into a transform, which locked the right side of the toolbar. It still had 4 skills, and so they added another one.

But lately they have been talking about how it is a 2nd healthbar. Regardless of this, deathshroud from its very conception has been lacking a solid identity. Its functionality has been changed a multiple times.

In the current iteration of GW2, it would only make sense to change it from how it currently functions, as a “transform” into a second health bar with skills attached.

Right now, this lack of a clear shroud identity is what has been holding us back. Deathshroud is counterintuitive with signets, counterintuitive with minions, counter intuitive.

We need to be able to use our utilities in deathshroud if necromancer is to become less handicapped.

Malchior.1928:

meow one twenty.4376:

“Additional skills” doesn’t include taking away all existing skills. It’s a transform and the proof of that is that it can overwrite already existing transforms, something only a transform can do. Anyone can call it whatever they please but its function is that of a transform.

If they wanted it to be something different it should have been an F1-F6 mechanic, F1 Shroud activation and F2-F6 for skills.

Originally, shroud was our downstate. It had 4 skills and that is it. Anet didn’t like that idea, so they changed it. Made it into a transform, which locked the right side of the toolbar. It still had 4 skills, and so they added another one.

Thank you.

But lately they have been talking about how it is a 2nd healthbar. Regardless of this, deathshroud from its very conception has been lacking a solid identity. Its functionality has been changed a multiple times.

In the current iteration of GW2, it would only make sense to change it from how it currently functions, as a “transform” into a second health bar with skills attached.

I completely agree. They could make it more skillful to move it away from the transform into a real “second healthbar” with “additional skills,” which I think would be great from multiple perspectives. We would have a full upkeep skill that lets us raise our DPS and make use of unique skills, raising the skill : power balance, especially for PvE.

Right now, this lack of a clear shroud identity is what has been holding us back. Deathshroud is counterintuitive with signets, counterintuitive with minions, counter intuitive.

I fully agree with this too, but the problem is that it is currently a tranform and I think transforms shouldn’t have access to utilities.

We need to be able to use our utilities in deathshroud if necromancer is to become less handicapped.

Can you describe what handicaps this would solve that aren’t flat buffs?

meow one twenty.4376:

“Additional skills” doesn’t include taking away all existing skills. It’s a transform and the proof of that is that it can overwrite already existing transforms, something only a transform can do. Anyone can call it whatever they please but its function is that of a transform.

If they wanted it to be something different it should have been an F1-F6 mechanic, F1 Shroud activation and F2-F6 for skills.

Death shroud is not a transform since the cooldown is completely different (cooldown doesn’t start at entering) and it doesn’t destroy minions.

Malchior.1928:

Lily.1935:

Wrong thread. No one here suggested cutting the life force pool.

Incorrect.

zapv.8051:

Shroud shouldn’t function as a transform in general. Make it work like a weapon and health bar swap, half the total amount of DS, and that would fix 80% of the problems with the mechanic. The remaining 20% would be skill fixes.

Ah, My mistake. Yeah, no we shouldn’t cut the total life force pool. I agree 110%

meow one twenty.4376:

Can you describe what handicaps this would solve that aren’t flat buffs?

Our overwhelming predictability in Death shroud.

I think the more pressing issue is that we actually get some utility first so that we can use it while in DS.

ds works more like elementalist summon weps and engis stuff with a “lifebar” if ele and engi can use their utilities why not necros why we have to fight handicap all the time

Brokensunday.4098:

ds works more like elementalist summon weps and engis stuff with a “lifebar” if ele and engi can use their utilities why not necros why we have to fight handicap all the time

Because it is a second health bar in Anet’s eyes. That means we shouldn’t have access to our defensive options since we already are not loosing our true health.

Brokensunday.4098:

ds works more like elementalist summon weps and engis stuff with a “lifebar” if ele and engi can use their utilities why not necros why we have to fight handicap all the time

Those are totally different. Ever picked up a summoned weapon? Guess what, you still have your utilities, just like any other class picking up a summoned weapon. You are arguing completely different mechanics. (You are even holding your same weapons in Shroud!)

Lily.1935:

meow one twenty.4376:

Can you describe what handicaps this would solve that aren’t flat buffs?

Our overwhelming predictability in Death shroud.

I’ll give you that. It’s a lot like Rampage’s overwhelming predictability. O:)
(okay slightly more on the “underwhelming” side. Still quite effective though.)

Tim.6450:

Death shroud is not a transform since the cooldown is completely different (cooldown doesn’t start at entering) and it doesn’t destroy minions.

It’s a class mechanic! If it functioned in a way that destroyed minions every time you used your class mechanic the class would implode out of stupidity. I’ll concede that it’s the ONLY transform that doesn’t kill Necro minions, but as a side note… runes of Vampirism’s Mist Form destroys minions but not Ranger spirits. Cooldowns? Serious? All other transforms have long cooldowns, this compensates.

- It literally transforms you, in a way much like Rampage.
- It overwrites your current skills.
- It blocks out utilities.
- It overwrites other transforms.

They can let us use utilities in Shroud and I will be more than happy, but it is treated as a transform and nothing but a change in Shroud mechanics could convince me otherwise. A dev could even come on here and say it’s not a transform, I would just think of it as how one day Spectral Walk is working as intended and the next day it’s a bug.

meow one twenty.4376:

Lily.1935:

meow one twenty.4376:

Can you describe what handicaps this would solve that aren’t flat buffs?

Our overwhelming predictability in Death shroud.

I’ll give you that. It’s a lot like Rampage’s overwhelming predictability. O:)
(okay slightly more on the “underwhelming” side. Still quite effective though.)

Rampage is an elite that grants 2 stacks of stability every 3 seconds that can negate most hard control and you’re not expected to be able to use rampage every 10 seconds because of that. Rampage doesn’t make up 90% of the warrior’s defenses either. The abilities on rampage have a much shorter cast time for the most part, excluding doom. So the predictability with DS vs Rampage only increases rather than decreases. All these elements combine to create a mechanic that is extremely easy to predict and counter. Another distinction between the two of them is that Rampage is a control and damage skill while Death shroud is supposed to fill damage, control and defense all at the same time while excelling at none of them. While rampage has a clear focus death shroud does not.

Aka, bad comparison. You can’t really compare the two. Death shroud is more akin to a weapon swap, kit or conjure weapon than any of the transforms. A transform doesn’t often have multiple traits associated with it to improve its effectiveness. Perhaps one, maybe two traits depending on the profession. While death shroud is a profession mechanic. Death Shroud is also the only profession mechanic that locks you out of using your utility and you suffer greatly for it. You seem to believe death shroud is more powerful than it actually is. Death shroud is fairly weak as a profession mechanic and its extremely weak when compared to most transform skills. Excluding racial transforms.

ok so is a second life bar then give me utilities on ds not your core utilities skills skills form 6-9 lets say dran 5% of your life force and be invul for 4 sec ( example) you still get your lf drain over time and make more uses for lf and ds

Lily.1935:

meow one twenty.4376:

Lily.1935:

meow one twenty.4376:

Can you describe what handicaps this would solve that aren’t flat buffs?

Our overwhelming predictability in Death shroud.

I’ll give you that. It’s a lot like Rampage’s overwhelming predictability. O:)
(okay slightly more on the “underwhelming” side. Still quite effective though.)

Rampage is an elite that grants 2 stacks of stability every 3 seconds that can negate most hard control and you’re not expected to be able to use rampage every 10 seconds because of that. Rampage doesn’t make up 90% of the warrior’s defenses either. The abilities on rampage have a much shorter cast time for the most part, excluding doom. So the predictability with DS vs Rampage only increases rather than decreases. All these elements combine to create a mechanic that is extremely easy to predict and counter. Another distinction between the two of them is that Rampage is a control and damage skill while Death shroud is supposed to fill damage, control and defense all at the same time while excelling at none of them. While rampage has a clear focus death shroud does not.

Predictability is the only thing I mentioned. What does someone do when they Rampage? They Throw a rock, they charge you and they try to beat your face in. That’s all it can do and it’s very predictable. Well, besides running away. That’s a common use too.

Aka, bad comparison. You can’t really compare the two. Death shroud is more akin to a weapon swap, kit or conjure weapon than any of the transforms. A transform doesn’t often have multiple traits associated with it to improve its effectiveness. Perhaps one, maybe two traits depending on the profession. While death shroud is a profession mechanic. Death Shroud is also the only profession mechanic that locks you out of using your utility and you suffer greatly for it. You seem to believe death shroud is more powerful than it actually is. Death shroud is fairly weak as a profession mechanic and its extremely weak when compared to most transform skills. Excluding racial transforms.

Literally nothing you just said proves it isn’t a transform. You can talk efficacy all you want, but it doesn’t change the fact that Anet has made Shroud into a transformation mechanic. The next closest thing would be a kit, which isn’t that hard of a change to make. I would LOVE if they turned it into a kit mechanic. If it is a kit mechanic there’s even more of an argument for getting Shroud F1 and Reaper Shroud F2, and enabling healing/utilities/elites. Shroud in its current form is very flawed, that’s something I don’t disagree with in the least.

IDK. I think DS should stay as is for now. I think allowing Utilities to be used while in DS will make it super OP. The biggest problem with Necro is that most people haven’t mastered it yet. Also the way its looking with our specialization (Reaper) it looks that maybe they do add a type of shroud in the future that has utility skills but it will probably be lacking in something else to keep the balance. Probably call it Death Kit Shroud or something like that lol :P. But honestly IMO DS with utility will probably be super OP.

If anet thinks ds as a second healthbar, then dont let us use our normal utilities, but give us som shroud only utilitis what doesnt works for our def, but a lf costing group utility, fe. Dark simbiosis: chaneling a dark link between the necro and allies (max 4 target). As long the link exists, the necro takes the 80-90% of dmg from the allies. It would make it realy a 2nd healthbar…. for the whole team. Or transfering our boons/target enemies boons to our allies. Selflesly, we lose ours oc to not being op. For elite could be dark explosion. Explode our lf lifebar in x radius (kickin us out of ds) to heal the party to full hp (exept us oc.) And give them 2 sec invuln maybe. Costing lf would be a risky mechanism, so would need skill and mind to play it, anet ant argue with it cus its a fair trade from necros, and we had groupmutility and we werent hated un pve

meow one twenty.4376:

Tim.6450:

Death shroud is not a transform since the cooldown is completely different (cooldown doesn’t start at entering) and it doesn’t destroy minions.

It’s a class mechanic! If it functioned in a way that destroyed minions every time you used your class mechanic the class would implode out of stupidity.
—snip—

Bug Fixes:

• Death Shroud: Fixed a bug that caused minions not to die when entering into Shroud form.

Jekkt.6045:

PvP is endgame, not PvE, so their focus lying on that game mode is not a wrong decision. but even in PvP necro doesn’t shine, especially not in group utility.

a “difficult mechanic for newbies” is a bad excuse that has been used for a couple of things in the past. as i said, with PvP being endgame there is no reason to cater towards newbies.

What are you basing the whole “PvP is endgame” thing on?

Zoso.8279:

IDK. I think DS should stay as is for now. I think allowing Utilities to be used while in DS will make it super OP. The biggest problem with Necro is that most people haven’t mastered it yet. Also the way its looking with our specialization (Reaper) it looks that maybe they do add a type of shroud in the future that has utility skills but it will probably be lacking in something else to keep the balance. Probably call it Death Kit Shroud or something like that lol :P. But honestly IMO DS with utility will probably be super OP.

It wouldn’t be. I used to think that about 2 years ago, but with high experience with the profession comes understanding what its flaws are. And without utility the necromancer is put into a pretty sour spot in terms of their defenses and offenses.

Lily.1935:

Zoso.8279:

IDK. I think DS should stay as is for now. I think allowing Utilities to be used while in DS will make it super OP. The biggest problem with Necro is that most people haven’t mastered it yet. Also the way its looking with our specialization (Reaper) it looks that maybe they do add a type of shroud in the future that has utility skills but it will probably be lacking in something else to keep the balance. Probably call it Death Kit Shroud or something like that lol :P. But honestly IMO DS with utility will probably be super OP.

It wouldn’t be. I used to think that about 2 years ago, but with high experience with the profession comes understanding what its flaws are. And without utility the necromancer is put into a pretty sour spot in terms of their defenses and offenses.

(PVP)
Utilities in DS would turn DS into a second health bar :/ and from my experience with the class I can tell you that if you trait properly DS can be very strong both in offense and defense.

Zoso.8279:

Lily.1935:

Zoso.8279:

IDK. I think DS should stay as is for now. I think allowing Utilities to be used while in DS will make it super OP. The biggest problem with Necro is that most people haven’t mastered it yet. Also the way its looking with our specialization (Reaper) it looks that maybe they do add a type of shroud in the future that has utility skills but it will probably be lacking in something else to keep the balance. Probably call it Death Kit Shroud or something like that lol :P. But honestly IMO DS with utility will probably be super OP.

It wouldn’t be. I used to think that about 2 years ago, but with high experience with the profession comes understanding what its flaws are. And without utility the necromancer is put into a pretty sour spot in terms of their defenses and offenses.

Utilities in DS would turn DS into a second health bar :/ and from my experience with the class I can tell you that if you trait properly DS can be very strong both in offense and defense.

And my experience with the profession says that it wont be over poered. And DS is SUPPOSED TO BE A SECOND HEALTH BAR!!!! Although it never functioned that way. In the low end of PvP, people have trouble with necros. In high end, they don’t, necros have been focused almost completely out of the meta. For WvW they’re strong because of the fact that Zergs by their very nature are not as intelligent as a single player. That isn’t saying they’re stupid, we are all less intelligent in a mob. Its just what happens. And In PvE, the necromancer is 8th in usefulness for a group. The necromancer is in an extremely bad spot right now and after 3 years of experience with the necromancer and other professions, the necromancer is extraordinarily weak.

Lily.1935:

Zoso.8279:

Lily.1935:

Zoso.8279:

IDK. I think DS should stay as is for now. I think allowing Utilities to be used while in DS will make it super OP. The biggest problem with Necro is that most people haven’t mastered it yet. Also the way its looking with our specialization (Reaper) it looks that maybe they do add a type of shroud in the future that has utility skills but it will probably be lacking in something else to keep the balance. Probably call it Death Kit Shroud or something like that lol :P. But honestly IMO DS with utility will probably be super OP.

It wouldn’t be. I used to think that about 2 years ago, but with high experience with the profession comes understanding what its flaws are. And without utility the necromancer is put into a pretty sour spot in terms of their defenses and offenses.

Utilities in DS would turn DS into a second health bar :/ and from my experience with the class I can tell you that if you trait properly DS can be very strong both in offense and defense.

And my experience with the profession says that it wont be over poered. And DS is SUPPOSED TO BE A SECOND HEALTH BAR!!!! Although it never functioned that way. In the low end of PvP, people have trouble with necros. In high end, they don’t, necros have been focused almost completely out of the meta. For WvW they’re strong because of the fact that Zergs by their very nature are not as intelligent as a single player. That isn’t saying they’re stupid, we are all less intelligent in a mob. Its just what happens. And In PvE, the necromancer is 8th in usefulness for a group. The necromancer is in an extremely bad spot right now and after 3 years of experience with the necromancer and other professions, the necromancer is extraordinarily weak.

Ill agree with you that in PvE the necro is lackluster compared to other but I think thats more of a design flaw of PvE atm then the necro itself. In WvW I can’t really say because I mostly only roam on my ranger and its mostly solo (atm) but I can tell you in PvP its more of an issue of necros not using the most optimal builds. Now Nos from what I’ve seen in the tournaments plays necro very good and can dominate with the cele signet build but I can’t say every build I’ve seen necros use are as dominant as the cele signet. I think there is a misconception going around that DS is only a second health bar and it should really stop cuz it makes the people who say it sound like they don’t know much about the necro.

Also I can link you my favorite (main) build if you want its very good defensively and offensively in DS. But its a PvP build.

Zoso.8279:

Lily.1935:

Zoso.8279:

Lily.1935:

Zoso.8279:

IDK. I think DS should stay as is for now. I think allowing Utilities to be used while in DS will make it super OP. The biggest problem with Necro is that most people haven’t mastered it yet. Also the way its looking with our specialization (Reaper) it looks that maybe they do add a type of shroud in the future that has utility skills but it will probably be lacking in something else to keep the balance. Probably call it Death Kit Shroud or something like that lol :P. But honestly IMO DS with utility will probably be super OP.

It wouldn’t be. I used to think that about 2 years ago, but with high experience with the profession comes understanding what its flaws are. And without utility the necromancer is put into a pretty sour spot in terms of their defenses and offenses.

Utilities in DS would turn DS into a second health bar :/ and from my experience with the class I can tell you that if you trait properly DS can be very strong both in offense and defense.

And my experience with the profession says that it wont be over poered. And DS is SUPPOSED TO BE A SECOND HEALTH BAR!!!! Although it never functioned that way. In the low end of PvP, people have trouble with necros. In high end, they don’t, necros have been focused almost completely out of the meta. For WvW they’re strong because of the fact that Zergs by their very nature are not as intelligent as a single player. That isn’t saying they’re stupid, we are all less intelligent in a mob. Its just what happens. And In PvE, the necromancer is 8th in usefulness for a group. The necromancer is in an extremely bad spot right now and after 3 years of experience with the necromancer and other professions, the necromancer is extraordinarily weak.

Ill agree with you that in PvE the necro is lackluster compared to other but I think thats more of a design flaw of PvE atm then the necro itself. In WvW I can’t really say because I mostly only roam on my ranger and its mostly solo (atm) but I can tell you in PvP its more of an issue of necros not using the most optimal builds. Now Nos from what I’ve seen in the tournaments plays necro very good and can dominate with the cele signet build but I can’t say every build I’ve seen necros use are as dominant as the cele signet. I think there is a misconception going around that DS is only a second health bar and it should really stop cuz it makes the people who say it sound like they don’t know much about the necro.

Also I can link you my favorite (main) build if you want its very good defensively and offensively in DS. But its a PvP build.

I said it was supposed to be. Not that it was. And a Celestial build isn’t high in both. Its moderate in both. Arena net has pushed it as a second health bar when it doesn’t function like one. Their words not mine. Either way, I have more than enough experience to know the ins and outs of the profession. I’ve been doing this for 3 years, and again, in year 1 I would have agreed with you. But I’m in year 3 now. And I’ve revised my views to match with whats happening in reality. I’ve also got quit a bit of experience with Mesmers, Guardians and Engineer. Out of all of them my necromancer, even with the best meta builds, suggested builds from other people and my own home brew, doesn’t hold a candle to my other mains. Especially the mesmer. And Especially after the patch.

meow one twenty.4376:

Can you describe what handicaps this would solve that aren’t flat buffs?

It would solve the handicap of having a class mechanic that works against your build choices other that your DS traits.

Remember blood magic? No one used it until they reworked it to work in death shroud. An entire trait line made useless for nearly 3 years because our class mechanic worked against it. And it isn’t overpowered in the least, nor a flat buff, just a long overdue sensible change.

You shouldn’t be punished by your class mechanic for investing in utility slots and traits.

Lily.1935:

Zoso.8279:

Lily.1935:

Zoso.8279:

Lily.1935:

Zoso.8279:

IDK. I think DS should stay as is for now. I think allowing Utilities to be used while in DS will make it super OP. The biggest problem with Necro is that most people haven’t mastered it yet. Also the way its looking with our specialization (Reaper) it looks that maybe they do add a type of shroud in the future that has utility skills but it will probably be lacking in something else to keep the balance. Probably call it Death Kit Shroud or something like that lol :P. But honestly IMO DS with utility will probably be super OP.

It wouldn’t be. I used to think that about 2 years ago, but with high experience with the profession comes understanding what its flaws are. And without utility the necromancer is put into a pretty sour spot in terms of their defenses and offenses.

Utilities in DS would turn DS into a second health bar :/ and from my experience with the class I can tell you that if you trait properly DS can be very strong both in offense and defense.

And my experience with the profession says that it wont be over poered. And DS is SUPPOSED TO BE A SECOND HEALTH BAR!!!! Although it never functioned that way. In the low end of PvP, people have trouble with necros. In high end, they don’t, necros have been focused almost completely out of the meta. For WvW they’re strong because of the fact that Zergs by their very nature are not as intelligent as a single player. That isn’t saying they’re stupid, we are all less intelligent in a mob. Its just what happens. And In PvE, the necromancer is 8th in usefulness for a group. The necromancer is in an extremely bad spot right now and after 3 years of experience with the necromancer and other professions, the necromancer is extraordinarily weak.

Ill agree with you that in PvE the necro is lackluster compared to other but I think thats more of a design flaw of PvE atm then the necro itself. In WvW I can’t really say because I mostly only roam on my ranger and its mostly solo (atm) but I can tell you in PvP its more of an issue of necros not using the most optimal builds. Now Nos from what I’ve seen in the tournaments plays necro very good and can dominate with the cele signet build but I can’t say every build I’ve seen necros use are as dominant as the cele signet. I think there is a misconception going around that DS is only a second health bar and it should really stop cuz it makes the people who say it sound like they don’t know much about the necro.

Also I can link you my favorite (main) build if you want its very good defensively and offensively in DS. But its a PvP build.

I said it was supposed to be. Not that it was. And a Celestial build isn’t high in both. Its moderate in both. Arena net has pushed it as a second health bar when it doesn’t function like one. Their words not mine. Either way, I have more than enough experience to know the ins and outs of the profession. I’ve been doing this for 3 years, and again, in year 1 I would have agreed with you. But I’m in year 3 now. And I’ve revised my views to match with whats happening in reality. I’ve also got quit a bit of experience with Mesmers, Guardians and Engineer. Out of all of them my necromancer, even with the best meta builds, suggested builds from other people and my own home brew, doesn’t hold a candle to my other mains. Especially the mesmer. And Especially after the patch.

Ive been playing this game awhile too… I guess we just see it differently. Idk when the devs said its only just extra hp. I could be wrong though but regardless I really enjoy the current version of DS and I’m excited for RS.

Zoso.8279:

Ive been playing this game awhile too… I guess we just see it differently. Idk when the devs said its only just extra hp. I could be wrong though but regardless I really enjoy the current version of DS and I’m excited for RS.

I enjoy the necromancer as well. I wouldn’t main it if I didn’t. However, just because I enjoy it doesn’t mean I’m going to be blind to is overwhelming flaws and poor balance design.

Lily.1935:

Zoso.8279:

Ive been playing this game awhile too… I guess we just see it differently. Idk when the devs said its only just extra hp. I could be wrong though but regardless I really enjoy the current version of DS and I’m excited for RS.

I enjoy the necromancer as well. I wouldn’t main it if I didn’t. However, just because I enjoy it doesn’t mean I’m going to be blind to is overwhelming flaws and poor balance design.

When people are crying because they can’t hit focus 5 and blaming the “controller” then there is a problem with the way people are thinking…. Not saying Necro is perfect but its def not where most people think it is. Watching the stream right now at gamescom was kinda hard to watch as a necro main.

Zoso.8279:

Lily.1935:

Zoso.8279:

Ive been playing this game awhile too… I guess we just see it differently. Idk when the devs said its only just extra hp. I could be wrong though but regardless I really enjoy the current version of DS and I’m excited for RS.

I enjoy the necromancer as well. I wouldn’t main it if I didn’t. However, just because I enjoy it doesn’t mean I’m going to be blind to is overwhelming flaws and poor balance design.

When people are crying because they can’t hit focus 5 and blaming the “controller” then there is a problem with the way people are thinking…. Not saying Necro is perfect but its def not where most people think it is. Watching the stream right now at gamescom was kinda hard to watch as a necro main.

I’ve got their rotations down. Its not blaming the controller or any nonsense like that. The GW2 controls are really tight. Its that we often just get hard counters regardless of what build we are taking. Its not even that we’re hard countered for taking a specific build, its all of them. And the lack of group utility that we effectively have to be front loaded in Death shroud just exasperates these problems. With utility, it wouldn’t be broken. Some traits might need to be looked at again, sure. And some skills might need to be retooled because they are not designed with the idea of being used while in Shroud. Most wouldn’t have to change. Signets wouldn’t have to change at all, wells, minions, shouts, corruptions. Well, corruptions need to be buffed but thats on their base not their flat utility. Spectral skills are the the only problem at face value. Which I mentioned. The others? not so much. Wells aren’t very high damage, even though some people might disagree with that but when you compare them to similar damaging aoe from other professions they’re damage is decent but not insane. Granting the necromancer the ability to use their skills in shroud gives them greater opportunity to both support and pressure people. Capable of dropping something like a dark field on a downed ally while at the same time reviving them in Shroud is good, but its not insane. Especially when taking into the Life force cost as the other part of the suggestion. A burst necromancer might have a build that builds up Life force to burst out high damage utility to sacrifice their defenses. This might be against some of the ideas that Arena net had with the necromancer, however they shouldn’t be afraid to break the mold with some professions. Especially a profession thats all about life for power.

Lily.1935:

Zoso.8279:

Lily.1935:

Zoso.8279:

Ive been playing this game awhile too… I guess we just see it differently. Idk when the devs said its only just extra hp. I could be wrong though but regardless I really enjoy the current version of DS and I’m excited for RS.

I enjoy the necromancer as well. I wouldn’t main it if I didn’t. However, just because I enjoy it doesn’t mean I’m going to be blind to is overwhelming flaws and poor balance design.

When people are crying because they can’t hit focus 5 and blaming the “controller” then there is a problem with the way people are thinking…. Not saying Necro is perfect but its def not where most people think it is. Watching the stream right now at gamescom was kinda hard to watch as a necro main.

I’ve got their rotations down. Its not blaming the controller or any nonsense like that. The GW2 controls are really tight. Its that we often just get hard counters regardless of what build we are taking. Its not even that we’re hard countered for taking a specific build, its all of them. And the lack of group utility that we effectively have to be front loaded in Death shroud just exasperates these problems. With utility, it wouldn’t be broken. Some traits might need to be looked at again, sure. And some skills might need to be retooled because they are not designed with the idea of being used while in Shroud. Most wouldn’t have to change. Signets wouldn’t have to change at all, wells, minions, shouts, corruptions. Well, corruptions need to be buffed but thats on their base not their flat utility. Spectral skills are the the only problem at face value. Which I mentioned. The others? not so much. Wells aren’t very high damage, even though some people might disagree with that but when you compare them to similar damaging aoe from other professions they’re damage is decent but not insane. Granting the necromancer the ability to use their skills in shroud gives them greater opportunity to both support and pressure people. Capable of dropping something like a dark field on a downed ally while at the same time reviving them in Shroud is good, but its not insane. Especially when taking into the Life force cost as the other part of the suggestion. A burst necromancer might have a build that builds up Life force to burst out high damage utility to sacrifice their defenses. This might be against some of the ideas that Arena net had with the necromancer, however they shouldn’t be afraid to break the mold with some professions. Especially a profession thats all about life for power.

This sentence right here is the problem. Also it looks like you want engi play style on necro.

Zoso.8279:

This sentence right here is the problem. Also it looks like you want engi play style on necro.

I don’t want necromancer to be a jack of all traits. A single build should have a counter to it. Soft counters are preferred but hard counters are alright as well. However, there shouldn’t be a hard counter for the entire profession. It should matter what your match ups are. It shouldn’t be that their is absolutely nothing you can do to play better based on your limitations from mechanics. So I see no problems with my statement. I don’t want to play like an engineer. We need greater utility. This is a fact. We are front loaded, which puts way too much focus on Death shroud. Its our damage, its our utility, its our defense, its our control, its supposed to be everything all at the same time and executes none of this very well. You must be imagining things on the Engineer comparison, because I don’t want it to be like the engineer. I’ve never even hinted toward that.

Lily.1935:

Zoso.8279:

This sentence right here is the problem. Also it looks like you want engi play style on necro.

I don’t want necromancer to be a jack of all traits. A single build should have a counter to it. Soft counters are preferred but hard counters are alright as well. However, there shouldn’t be a hard counter for the entire profession. It should matter what your match ups are. It shouldn’t be that their is absolutely nothing you can do to play better based on your limitations from mechanics. So I see no problems with my statement. I don’t want to play like an engineer. We need greater utility. This is a fact. We are front loaded, which puts way too much focus on Death shroud. Its our damage, its our utility, its our defense, its our control, its supposed to be everything all at the same time and executes none of this very well. You must be imagining things on the Engineer comparison, because I don’t want it to be like the engineer. I’ve never even hinted toward that.

DS can be tailored towards defense or offense depending on how you trait it. People tend to forgot about the actual necro :P he can do stuff too you know. Its not about just getting into DS and 111111111 or getting into DS and absorbing damage. Either way I play for fun and very casually just giving my opinions because atm it looks like necros are kinda stuck but w/e glhf. Ill be going back into the shadows less headaches there :P (get it? cuz I’m a necromancer… lol!)

Zoso.8279:

Lily.1935:

Zoso.8279:

This sentence right here is the problem. Also it looks like you want engi play style on necro.

I don’t want necromancer to be a jack of all traits. A single build should have a counter to it. Soft counters are preferred but hard counters are alright as well. However, there shouldn’t be a hard counter for the entire profession. It should matter what your match ups are. It shouldn’t be that their is absolutely nothing you can do to play better based on your limitations from mechanics. So I see no problems with my statement. I don’t want to play like an engineer. We need greater utility. This is a fact. We are front loaded, which puts way too much focus on Death shroud. Its our damage, its our utility, its our defense, its our control, its supposed to be everything all at the same time and executes none of this very well. You must be imagining things on the Engineer comparison, because I don’t want it to be like the engineer. I’ve never even hinted toward that.

DS can be tailored towards defense or offense depending on how you trait it. People tend to forgot about the actual necro :P he can do stuff too you know. Its not about just getting into DS and 111111111 or getting into DS and absorbing damage. Either way I play for fun and very casually just giving my opinions because atm it looks like necros are kinda stuck but w/e glhf. Ill be going back into the shadows less headaches there :P (get it? cuz I’m a necromancer… lol!)

Never said it couldn’t… Are you… Are you trolling? Well, if you are, congrats. You’ve succeeded. But now I can’t take a single thing you’ve said seriously. So, moving on to more pressing issues.