Just to explain why I think DS, or necro base HP (and therefore DS health) should be lowered. Everyone on this forum is asking for active defense and buffs to bad weapon skills as well as mechanic fixes. While I do feel that is justified, a necro with 40k hp, an invuln, a port, and stab whose weapons actually function well and who can use utilities in DS is really intimidating. 40k hp for 90% of the players in this game is already an incredibly daunting task, and, while skillfull play will see that health disappear relatively quickly, I don’t envision anet making it even harder for newbies to kill necros with burst. Also, before someone says it, DS is not a second health bar, but Anet treats it as one, so that is how we should treat it when discussing balancing.
By reducing the total amount of DS and increasing the rate of regeneration it would become more of a sustain mechanic. Currently, LF generates too slowly to be a proper sustain mechanic. The necro plays more like a carry right now in that you can build up 100% LF by the middle of the match and be really hard to kill (or get shutout by a thief/mes). Also, by increasing weapon LF generation necros would become less dependent on spectral armor and/or last gasp (which are pretty much mandatory in pvp right now).
Necros don’t have reflects, invulns, vigor, blocks,
extra dodges, real stability, mobility skills,
burst skills, sustain, or good support. GG ANET.
Just to explain why I think DS, or necro base HP (and therefore DS health) should be lowered. Everyone on this forum is asking for active defense and buffs to bad weapon skills as well as mechanic fixes. While I do feel that is justified, a necro with 40k hp, an invuln, a port, and stab whose weapons actually function well and who can use utilities in DS is really intimidating. 40k hp for 90% of the players in this game is already an incredibly daunting task, and, while skillfull play will see that health disappear relatively quickly, I don’t envision anet making it even harder for newbies to kill necros with burst. Also, before someone says it, DS is not a second health bar, but Anet treats it as one, so that is how we should treat it when discussing balancing.
By reducing the total amount of DS and increasing the rate of regeneration it would become more of a sustain mechanic. Currently, LF generates too slowly to be a proper sustain mechanic. The necro plays more like a carry right now in that you can build up 100% LF by the middle of the match and be really hard to kill (or get shutout by a thief/mes). Also, by increasing weapon LF generation necros would become less dependent on spectral armor and/or last gasp (which are pretty much mandatory in pvp right now).
So, along with natural degen, you want the LF pool to be halved…. That doesn’t seem like it will help us sustain. That seems like we’ll have our life force burned through even faster. Unless we get utilities in Shroud that helps maintain LF, you’re proposing to essentially get rid of our safety net. Death Shroud is how we tank damage. So unless we get a non-degenerating LF pool that, while cut in half, also gives us utilities in shroud including something to gain LF back beyond DS 4 or RS 1, and gives us real defensive options, I’m completely against cutting LF. Quick regen and lower pool is not sustain as it stands. We’d have to have the whole class overhauled to make that work
Just to explain why I think DS, or necro base HP (and therefore DS health) should be lowered. Everyone on this forum is asking for active defense and buffs to bad weapon skills as well as mechanic fixes. While I do feel that is justified, a necro with 40k hp, an invuln, a port, and stab whose weapons actually function well and who can use utilities in DS is really intimidating. 40k hp for 90% of the players in this game is already an incredibly daunting task, and, while skillfull play will see that health disappear relatively quickly, I don’t envision anet making it even harder for newbies to kill necros with burst. Also, before someone says it, DS is not a second health bar, but Anet treats it as one, so that is how we should treat it when discussing balancing.
By reducing the total amount of DS and increasing the rate of regeneration it would become more of a sustain mechanic. Currently, LF generates too slowly to be a proper sustain mechanic. The necro plays more like a carry right now in that you can build up 100% LF by the middle of the match and be really hard to kill (or get shutout by a thief/mes). Also, by increasing weapon LF generation necros would become less dependent on spectral armor and/or last gasp (which are pretty much mandatory in pvp right now).
So, along with natural degen, you want the LF pool to be halved…. That doesn’t seem like it will help us sustain. That seems like we’ll have our life force burned through even faster. Unless we get utilities in Shroud that helps maintain LF, you’re proposing to essentially get rid of our safety net. Death Shroud is how we tank damage. So unless we get a non-degenerating LF pool that, while cut in half, also gives us utilities in shroud including something to gain LF back beyond DS 4 or RS 1, and gives us real defensive options, I’m completely against cutting LF. Quick regen and lower pool is not sustain as it stands. We’d have to have the whole class overhauled to make that work
? again, HP doesn’t make a difference to sustain as long as you have enough to not die to the first burst. The idea is in fact that Ds would get bursted through faster, but you would also generate it much faster, and there would be more active defense (aka invulns stab, vigor, and ports) to allow you to survive burst better. We are pretty much in agreeance, but I don’t think it would take as much work as most people think. Yes it would be a lot of work, but that is kind of what most people are calling for on these forums from what I can tell (If your asking for a several different active defensive skills your basically asking for a rework imo).
Necros don’t have reflects, invulns, vigor, blocks,
extra dodges, real stability, mobility skills,
burst skills, sustain, or good support. GG ANET.
How about allowing us to start with 50% DS bar? It would definitely help us in PvP and PvE. Thoughts?
That’s lazy and copy & paste. The issue from my point of view is necro being weak with 0 LF not that we start with 0 but utility in shroud should have been considered since Death Shroud stopped being a downed state.
“Revenant is actual proof that devs read the necromancer forum” – Pelopidas.2140 The Dhuumfire thread
How about allowing us to start with 50% DS bar? It would definitely help us in PvP and PvE. Thoughts?
That’s lazy and copy & paste. The issue from my point of view is necro being weak with 0 LF not that we start with 0 but utility in shroud should have been considered since Death Shroud stopped being a downed state.
Oh, I wasn’t suggesting it as an mutually exclusive alternative. I’m all for wanting my utility skills available to me while in DS. My suggestion, I admit, is more a QoL type of thing. A streamline. Perhaps make LF lose faster to balance it out if they feel it’s too good (however, seeing how slow LF regen is with Reaper’s GS, I’d say starting with more than 0% would be fairly appreciated), but with base 50% full at start of combat and whenever we reach 0%, it would not add much, but merely allow us to have a bit stronger initiative.
Feel free to pick these thoughts apart further. I’d like to know what other ideas we can come up with that can help DS be more efficient. But I definitely support the request of allowing us to access our utility skills while we are in our second health bar mode.
When Revenant does better than Necro
in every playstyle imaginable,
they’ll call it a day and release HoT.
Can you describe what handicaps this would solve that aren’t flat buffs?
It would solve the handicap of having a class mechanic that works against your build choices other that your DS traits.
Remember blood magic? No one used it until they reworked it to work in death shroud. An entire trait line made useless for nearly 3 years because our class mechanic worked against it. And it isn’t overpowered in the least, nor a flat buff, just a long overdue sensible change.
You shouldn’t be punished by your class mechanic for investing in utility slots and traits.
I agree that having a class mechanic that works against the rest of the class is absurd, however the “Blood Magic buffs” were flat buffs. That’s not even a question. They were necessary, and quality of life changes, but saying they weren’t buffs is just silly.
What I’m saying is the mechanics need to change away from being a transform before it should benefit from present Utilities.
In my opinion changing a faulty design is a fix, not a buff. Yes, in practice they both translate as an improvement, but they aren’t the same thing. Anyway I won’t push it further since we are arguing semantics.
Allowing the utilities and the heal would make DS a kit with a true HP bar attached to it. Goodbye downed state transform. How can it be further away from being a transform that this?
I think they just need to abandon the “second health bar” concept entirely. Its the entire reason they are so dead set against giving us equivalent active defenses and utility in shroud…they can’t wrap their minds around the fact that being a meat shield (second health bar) is nowhere near as effective as being able to actually not take damage entirely (block/invuln/evade). Necromancers already have high base hp, we just need the proper tools aligned with the overall game design…to be effective and synergistic. This game is not designed around face tanking…its designed around dodging, blocking, reflecting, mobility, etc…a lot of this comes from utilities on professions. Its designed around team support (boons and combo fields). We need access to all of that…just like every other profession in the game. We don’t need flavor restrictions that block this effectiveness….trying to fit a theme (looking at you monster movie/low mobility/reaper). This whole attrition, second health bar, low mobility, flavor concept they have been stuck on is like trying to fit a square peg in a round hole…we teach our kids that that doesn’t work in pre-school. Yes, it will take a bit of work to correct this inequity, but the game will be much better for it. Give us our utilities at all times. Stop handicapping us. Please fix!
Actually maybe just make it so when you use a utility in DS it uses a percentage of DS. Allowing utility in ds while making you think twice before always using your utilities in DS. This would still allow us to stunbreak and heal but at an extra cost.
Attention Moderators I am not
S P E E D Starr #0 Necro NA or
I Am NeXeD awful d/D ele NA
Actually maybe just make it so when you use a utility in DS it uses a percentage of DS. Allowing utility in ds while making you think twice before always using your utilities in DS. This would still allow us to stunbreak and heal but at an extra cost.
This is a good idea, I think. Though, the amount of LF used couldn’t be drastic, or it would make LF burn far too quickly. (As it is, 4% degen per second at base is fairly significant. Perhaps make Vital Persistence’s 50% reduction in degen baseline to compensate for more rapid LF usage due to DS/RS utilities?
Or make taking vital persistence have an effect on the ds cost of utilities.
That could work… The question would be, would it keep the 50% degen decrease and 15% Shroud CD decrease in this hypothetical change?
Also, I think the LF cost should, of course, be in percentages as opposed to flat numbers. This way higher vitality builds don’t have an advantage over lower vitality builds in that way. Perhaps Vital Persistence could give 1-2% (Maybe 1.5%? shrug) LF cost reduction for Shroud utilities as well as the CD decrease, but make the LF degen 2%/s baseline
Edit: @Sagat – I don’t think it would be too bad. I’m thinking that the cost could be between 4% and 10% for each utility. Elite would be 10%, Heal would be 8%, then the utilities would be 4%, 6%, and 8%. Something similar to that, anyway, depending on what these skills would actually do
