Guild Wars 2

Should scale with Vitality.

Thoughts?

I think it needs to stay flat, you shouldn’t be getting bonus damage for having more vitality.

All they have to do is split the damage and healing like Siphon dagger 2. Make the damage scale with power, and the healing have split scaling with half scaling from vitality half from healing power, and bam. It’d be great.

I still think it should be with healing power. Vitality already double scales, both with your HP and with your LF, and toughness scales fine on its own anyway. While it doesn’t necessarily make sense lore-wise, healing power makes the best sense balance wise. If I want to heal myself better, I need more healing power, just like I need more condition damage if I want to damage my enemies more with conditions.

This isn’t healing we’re talking about though. We’re talking about regenerating through damage application. Honestly, I think the healing through Vampirism should be more of a tankish thing. Having it scale with HP would just make it a generic bunkeresque option, which we already have.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

This isn’t healing we’re talking about though. We’re talking about regenerating through damage application. Honestly, I think the healing through Vampirism should be more of a tankish thing. Having it scale with HP would just make it a generic bunkeresque option, which we already have.

The reason I say split the scaling is that necros already feel like healing power doesn’t do enough for us, and I can mind of agree with that

If your going for something that makes sense lore wise it would scale with damage but the siphon also adds damage then you would have straight zerker necroes that are dealing insane damage meanwhile never dying unless cc’ed like crazy which due to that build probably not having access to stability actually kind of makes sense…. Still seems op.

If it were strictly tpvp and spvp it would make sense for it to scale with something but it should probably stay flat for wvwvw and pve.

If anything it should scale with power for the damage or healing power for the heal you get from it not both that would be op as hell

why. just have it scale with healing power like it kittening should in the first place.
then you could just pick up dagger main hand, slap a valk ammy on your setup and all would be at peace.

Making vampiric traits scale with healing power, is a double-edged sword. It will require the base healing of vampirics to be reduced and made to scale to higher amounts with a high enough healing power.
This pretty much forces vampiric necromancers to spec in healing power and take healing power gear.

If they keep the base heal and improve the healing just slightly (very slightly) with healing power, it would not be a bad idea though. It won’t make it too powerful and will give the healing power necro builds, something to be happy about.

Vampiric, Vampiric Precision & Vampiric Rituals should should all scale with Healing Power and there is no reason why they shouldn’t already.

There heal bases should be dropped by around 50% and then scale to around 150% total for a bog standard HP PvP amount (1,100).

Example:

Vampiric
Siphon health whenever you hit a foe.
((Level * 0.125) + 5) + (HP * 0.025)

Reducing the base heal of vampiric traits will make them totally useless for non-healing power builds.

Burjis.3087:

Reducing the base heal of vampiric traits will make them totally useless for non-healing power builds.

Healing Power points from the trait-line itself? Death to Life? I think you’ll find if you did your math a standard Power build will have enough HP to still heal around 25.

Vampiric should only be more effective for people who go heavy into life steal builds, not for casual players who have Vampiric because they put 20 points in Blood Magic for well CD.

If they have to nerf it in order to scale it just leave it aline

ronpierce.2760:

If they have to nerf it in order to scale it just leave it aline

That’s the whole “double edged sword” people spoke about, by leaving the base the same it would auto-scale past what it is now for people who have Vampiric but don’t have a Life Stealing build.

Vampiric, Vampiric Precision and Vampiric Rituals don’t need to be ‘buffed’ as there values at base for a typical power or well build is fine but they do need to scale with HP which means balancing out the 200 – 350 HP these types of builds have from Death to Life & Blood Magic.

The only reason I’d be worried about adding heal scaling to the vampiric traits is the thought of creating the next Immortal Ranger build (The one that heals what, 700 health per second, while shedding conditions?), but on a Necromancer.

I think there’s a lot of room to add scaling before it hits that point, though.

Edit: I really don’t think the damage from any of them should be buffed though, to be honest. I just don’t think people should go into Blood Magic (Vitality + Healing Power) and not be obviously sacrificing damage. Splitting the heal and the damaging component like with Leeching Venoms seems like the best approach.

Scaling with vitality wouldn’t fit very well in terms of game mechanics. Healing power is already in the game and the current itemization options would favor already dps heavy builds. But i can see what you are trying to achieve since a bigger health pool is harder to maintain.

Imho the traits should be attributed differently. Vampiric rituals should stay flat (and maybe be merged with well cd). This trait favors wvw and pve and therefore it is okay to balance it around the maximum amount of targets.
Vampiric precision should become an on crit procc that siphons a fixed amount of health similar to the sigil of blood(~450 health, 5 sec icd). If the numbers are right, this would become a nice direct dmg procc for power and rabid condi builds alike.
And lastly vampiric should get to scale with healing power to allow better sustain with it because the current numbers are just abyssmal. I would also like to have the dmg part scale with healing power so that all other builds don’t profit too much from it (if it scales with power it will prolly be weak so zerker builds wouldn’t get even more increase in dps). Also this would allow cleric necros to be more of a bruiser with good sustained dmg, which i would find a lot more interesting then just some necro variant of a bunker guard. This obviously depends a lot on the numbers.

@Softspoken: we lack vigor and evades on weapon skills. so we would probably need smthg like 1500 healing per second to come close to rangers in terms of survivability (obviously this ignores DS and numbers are straight out of some place where the sun doesn’t shine)

Bellamy.9860:

@Softspoken: we lack vigor and evades on weapon skills. so we would probably need smthg like 1500 healing per second to come close to rangers in terms of survivability (obviously this ignores DS and numbers are straight out of some place where the sun doesn’t shine)

Good point. Part of the reason the immortal ranger build works is the huge amount of evasion skills they can chain (Sword/Dagger for them, I think?). With the current DS-blocking-heals situation, DS can’t quite fill that role since it sort of works against your over-time healing.

Although, it’s important to keep in mind that significant amounts of LF generation can act as pseudo-healing, so it would have to be added to the heals acquired in other ways somehow.

Of course, if they ever let heals go through DS, it would become a much more relevant stalling tactic. (Life Transfer and Vampiric)

Change Blood Magic’s grandmaster minor trait – Blood to Power – to Blood to Life. Have it improve life siphons by 5% of Healing Power.

Blood to Power is currently near useless; adding 5% more damage while health is above 90% is an uncommon situation. Even if the necro does manage to maintain equal to or greater than 90% health for the majority of a fight, a 5% increase in damage is insignificant for a necro that deeply invested into the Blood Magic line.

Let’s assume a necro has 1500 Healing Power, 25 points into the Blood Magic line, and this suggested change is implemented. The necro’s life siphon from Vampirism boosted by Bloodthirst equals 38 health per hit at level 80. With this new trait, this is further boosted to: (1500 × 0.05) + 38 = 113 health siphoned per hit.

In comparison to other professions’ sustain, regen, healing-per-second, etc., this is a reasonable amount. Let us not forget it comes at the expense of a significant investment into the Blood Magic line; armor, upgrades, and trinkets to boost Healing Power (with the attendant drop in DPS that implies from not speccing zerker); the fact the siphoning is not passive (unlike some of the other classes’ healing-per-second), but, rather, requires the necro to engage in combat and hit something to benefit from the siphon; and our lack of evades, blocks, and invulnerability.

In light of all these trade-offs and limitations, siphoning 113 health per hit is not unreasonable. If it’s still felt that 5% of Healing Power added to life siphons would be OP, then simply change the modifier; 4%, 3%, or even 2.5%.

Softspoken.2410:

The only reason I’d be worried about adding heal scaling to the vampiric traits is the thought of creating the next Immortal Ranger build (The one that heals what, 700 health per second, while shedding conditions?), but on a Necromancer.

Actually the Ranger heals 1,500+ health per second, while shedding conditions, while being able to kill you.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Softspoken.2410:

The only reason I’d be worried about adding heal scaling to the vampiric traits is the thought of creating the next Immortal Ranger build (The one that heals what, 700 health per second, while shedding conditions?), but on a Necromancer.

Actually the Ranger heals 1,500+ health per second, while shedding conditions, while being able to kill you.

Is that 1500 with Troll Unguent running, or 1500 averaged overall? I can’t remember the details of that build. Either way, there’s definitely room to add scaling to vampiric traits before we get near that level of healing.

Softspoken.2410:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Softspoken.2410:

The only reason I’d be worried about adding heal scaling to the vampiric traits is the thought of creating the next Immortal Ranger build (The one that heals what, 700 health per second, while shedding conditions?), but on a Necromancer.

Actually the Ranger heals 1,500+ health per second, while shedding conditions, while being able to kill you.

Is that 1500 with Troll Unguent running, or 1500 averaged overall? I can’t remember the details of that build. Either way, there’s definitely room to add scaling to vampiric traits before we get near that level of healing.

950-1100 from Troll Ungent (Shaman’s Amulet), 120+ Signet of Wild, and around 200-300 from regular Regeneration. All of which is on a 15 second cooldown, considering TU lasts for 10 seconds.

Pretty sure it is with Unguent. Regen ticks for 300 at around 1400 HP. Add in signet of the wild at around 140 plus Natural healing for 130 more and you get around 570 hps. With 1400 HP Unguent ticks for 980ish every second for 10 out of 25 seconds, averaging 392+570 = 962 hps.

Necro can actually reach that level of hps with cleric amulett enhanced regen and an all out minion specc with Vampiric Master (Blood fiend is essential).

Ascii.9726:

Vampiric, Vampiric Precision and Vampiric Rituals don’t need to be ‘buffed’ as there values at base for a typical power or well build is fine but they do need to scale with HP which means balancing out the 200 – 350 HP these types of builds have from Death to Life & Blood Magic.

The devs have explicitly said that they think life siphoning is at insufficient values to be useful. I believe it was in the most recent SotG.

@Ascii
Having the traits scale with HP doesn’t require the base heal to be lowered to compensate. You have suggested it to go up to 150% of its current value with high enough healing power. Keeping the base heal the same isn’t in contrast with that. It just means that it won’t scale as much with HP (e.g. it can scale from ~100% at ~150 HP to ~150% at ~1200 HP). This will still be a good enough boost for healing power builds.

Supposing they make siphons scale with Healing Power in some appropriate fashion that will give 2 amulets that may be able to make siphoning worthwhile. Cleric’s and Valkyrie. Shaman isn’t going to do anything for you because Life Siphon is on Dagger MH which is not a realistic weapon option for a Shaman Necro (no damage).

With the investment in Blood magic required to get siphoning traits you are stuck with a build that will have lackluster damage due to either insufficient power (from Clerics), insufficient damage multipliers (due to the limited access in Necro traits), insufficient crit chance (with no bonus to precision available at all) or insufficient crit damage (since you can’t go deep in power,precision and crit while taking the siphon traits). Smells like attrition style fighting to me. Solid sustain and mediocre to outright bad damage. A vampire build should be a very strong 1v1 that takes a substantial time investment to whittle down opponents. Kind of like a BM Ranger only requiring skill to play and using a different means to reach the end.

I personally am in favor of making all life steal skills scale off of healing power. But thats just me. And I know I’ll get a few people who disagree, however, It won’t break the game unless the life stealing has a radical scaling difference. Having it scale with health tastes bad to me.

ANet could go with 0.01 scaling from HP or something…

Would give 3 extra pr hit on trait line, and 13 extra pr hit if you also gear into it.

I consider Vampirism to be the solution of tanking builds. You heal little but you get hit by small hits as well… If vampirism will start working for high damage – squishy builds, that will render all tanking builds useless… since you can out-tank a tank by having high sustain from high damage… which is just weird.

With that being said… maybe a flat increase to make tanking builds a bit more viable… but that’s about it in my opinion.

Elementalist:

Signet of Restoration: Life Per hit -
PvE 202 + 0.1 * Healing Power
PvP 168 + 0.08 * Healing Power

Copy, Paste, Done!

Oh but go’s on CD for 25sec if they use there heal. But doesn’t cost them traits. Ele’s can also flip into water for 80 HPS + 0.05 * Healing Power. And can trait that to heal others. Well, 80 heals will do, let us heal party with it! Anything, just not 25 or 38 with even more trait cost, not being affected by heals power!