Guild Wars 2

Hey, guys. I’ve been putting some thoughts in a pve build for the last couple weeks. You know, HoT unleash my inner pve hero.
This is a condition build for dungeons and fractals. The one i’ve been using ever since HoT was released and i am enjoying it a lot.

No bad at all. I quite like the build.

Would I be losing too much DPS if I use Scepter+Focus/GS instead; as GS being the Power damage option?

Oh My God.8423:

No bad at all. I quite like the build.

Would I be losing too much DPS if I use Scepter+Focus/GS instead; as GS being the Power damage option?

Thanks.
I think GS wouldn’t be so good in there, because i only use the “power weapon set” to recover LF and hit objects. You know, GS attacks are so slow. But you also gain vulnerability stack and aoe blind. I think it could be viable to start a fight with 24 vulnerability on target. Will make some tests.

Actually traited Staff generates LF super quick.

I was thinking to use Scepter+X / Staff as my condition weapons and Reaper as my power damage. Some kind of hybrid at the end.

Well, I see some issue on your video, like killing 3 time the golem in engineer in 30s flat and you typing number that in addition are close to 37 seconds…

Video are fine if you are not partial. Engi first kill is at 7s (not 10 or so), 2nd at 16s (9s later) and third at 30s (14s later due to a lack of self might generation). A banner warrior DPS test is meant to be done with banner out… Well, that’s some things that hurt when seen on a comparative dps video.

Dadnir.5038:

Well, I see some issue on your video, like killing 3 time the golem in engineer in 30s flat and you typing number that in addition are close to 37 seconds…

Video are fine if you are not partial. Engi first kill is at 7s (not 10 or so), 2nd at 16s (9s later) and third at 30s (14s later due to a lack of self might generation). A banner warrior DPS test is meant to be done with banner out… Well, that’s some things that hurt when seen on a comparative dps video.

I you watch the video you’ll notice that not all of the fights, the engineer for example, start with the golem at 100% HP. For the engineer video the golem starts at about 55% HP and the timer is correctly counted from 55% HP until 55% HP on the “2nd” golem, in other words 100% total HP.

Did you test whether reapers onslaught adds more burn damage than deathly chill? I assume it doesnt. And this is pretty similar to how im leaning towards building condi necro. Even without testing.

Oh My God.8423:

Actually traited Staff generates LF super quick.

I was thinking to use Scepter+X / Staff as my condition weapons and Reaper as my power damage. Some kind of hybrid at the end.

Every staff’s mark when traited generate 3% LF, which means a total of 12% LF using all 4 marks. That is what the focus#4 generate in 1 skill usage and about the same on warhorn#5. I also tested staff over scepter/X and the dps was not taht great, was a meaningful loss, tbh.

Dadnir.5038:

Well, I see some issue on your video, like killing 3 time the golem in engineer in 30s flat and you typing number that in addition are close to 37 seconds…

Video are fine if you are not partial. Engi first kill is at 7s (not 10 or so), 2nd at 16s (9s later) and third at 30s (14s later due to a lack of self might generation). A banner warrior DPS test is meant to be done with banner out… Well, that’s some things that hurt when seen on a comparative dps video.

Hi, there. Like our friend above said, if you look closely some rotations doesn’t start with golem at 100% hp. I counted every fight frame by frame, so i am pretty sure the times their are correct.
And i know its not “fair” to compare the kill times when some classes are out of food or some dmg changing skill in use(banner), but the comparision was pretty superficial only to show that necros/reapers are viable. I am not saying we are the dps king or something. I am sorry if i didn’t made it clear in video, was totally my bad.

spoj.9672:

Did you test whether reapers onslaught adds more burn damage than deathly chill? I assume it doesnt. And this is pretty similar to how im leaning towards building condi necro. Even without testing.

Hey, man. Yeah, i’ve test reaper’s onslaught and its actually a dps loss compared to deathly chill.
With reaper’s onslaught i only get 1 extra burn stack ticking for 400~700 depending on might stacks/vuln at cost of nearly destroy my keyboard #1 key to achieve that max possible burn stack. While with deathly chill i can hit 750~1200 chill effortless, it will be always there ticking without i have to worry about. And it still compensante the direct dmg gain you get by using reapers onslaught.

I see now

Thanks for all your testing!!

Oh My God.8423:

I see now

Thanks for all your testing!!

Thank you for spend your time watching it.

I like the concept. Why not take Lingering Curse over Weakening Shroud? It’s a straight 50% damage increase for your scepter conditions, way more than the 10*2 ticks of bleed you’re getting every 20-25 seconds.

Zahmahkibo.6375:

I like the concept. Why not take Lingering Curse over Weakening Shroud? It’s a straight 50% damage increase for your scepter conditions, way more than the 10*2 ticks of bleed you’re getting every 20-25 seconds.

I tested it and was subpar in damage compared to this “final” build. The lingering curse condition damage boost doesn’t work in Reaper shroud like it used to work in Death Shroud. :/

Lynnie.7213:

Zahmahkibo.6375:

I like the concept. Why not take Lingering Curse over Weakening Shroud? It’s a straight 50% damage increase for your scepter conditions, way more than the 10*2 ticks of bleed you’re getting every 20-25 seconds.

I tested it and was subpar in damage compared to this “final” build. The lingering curse condition damage boost doesn’t work in Reaper shroud like it used to work in Death Shroud. :/

so maybe it is bugged?

Warotrix.9124:

Lynnie.7213:

Zahmahkibo.6375:

I like the concept. Why not take Lingering Curse over Weakening Shroud? It’s a straight 50% damage increase for your scepter conditions, way more than the 10*2 ticks of bleed you’re getting every 20-25 seconds.

I tested it and was subpar in damage compared to this “final” build. The lingering curse condition damage boost doesn’t work in Reaper shroud like it used to work in Death Shroud. :/

so maybe it is bugged?

bugged or working as intended. Maybe the Death shroud shouldn’t be like that, idk.

Lingering curse won’t work in shroud because shroud is counted as you wielding a hammer

Narenek.9085:

Lingering curse won’t work in shroud because shroud is counted as you wielding a hammer

Yeah. We just don’t know if its a bug or working as intended. If its working as intented they will probably remove the effect in death shroud.

Its working as intended. But i feel they should change it.

They also need to fix the inconsistencies between death shroud and reaper shroud.

Lynnie.7213:

Zahmahkibo.6375:

I like the concept. Why not take Lingering Curse over Weakening Shroud? It’s a straight 50% damage increase for your scepter conditions, way more than the 10*2 ticks of bleed you’re getting every 20-25 seconds.

I tested it and was subpar in damage compared to this “final” build. The lingering curse condition damage boost doesn’t work in Reaper shroud like it used to work in Death Shroud. :/

Huh, how are you testing? It’s true that Lingering Curse doesn’t work in Reaper’s Shroud, but from some quick napkin math it’s still a much bigger DPS gain.

Using the rotation in the video, you use shroud, scepter 2, and scepter 3 twice each, and the scepter AA chain one. So Weakening Shroud adds 40 ticks of bleed and 1.0 * Power worth of hits, while LC adds 46 ticks of bleed, 28 ticks of torment, 6 ticks of poison, and +150 condition damage to all your S/F and utility skills.

I can see how WS would be better for clearing trash thanks to the AoE weakness and faster stacking, but on any boss fight of reasonable duration it looks like LC is gonna surpass it.

One thing to not forget about Reaper’s Onslaught is it increases your physical damage along with the extra stack of Burning as you’re attacking faster. Another important factor is the on-kill cooldown trigger, allowing you to break out your 3, 4, and 5 when trash/adds are present. Another major concern is that Chill has no “most damage” intelligence built into it – any other chill even if it has no damage trait will overwrite yours erasing that damage.

In short, if number crunching shows deathly chill to out-DPS faster attacks + extra burn stack(s), it still would only be better in a single-target single-player-chilling situation.

Then comes the question of Spite vs Curses. Spite gives massive self-Might stacking, damage modifiers, and spinal shiver triggers for extra damage and chills. This obviously require different utilities – I like running Well of Suffering for solid damage, Suffer, and You Are All Weaklings for AoE weakness, might, and stun break.

I doubt a few more stacks of bleeding, 2 stacks of torment, and Target the Weak outweigh 25 stacks of might and 25% damage modifier, though once you’re in a group that gives you that might, it would go in favor of Curses.

Another suggestion is possibly forgoing Sigil of Venom for Sigil of Bursting? Poison is the weaker of the damage conditions, and boosting condition damage by 6% easily cover the poison stack losses. Also consider your off-swap having a Sigil of Corruption to have an additional 250 condition power for areas that you can build that up.

Also have you compared the 25% duration from runes vs the additional condition and power damage you get from Berserker runes? Runes of the Berserker would unquestionably win out on trash, but the extra stats and 5% condition damage (and 5% power damage if they ever fix that) is nothing to shake a stick at for bosses either.

Zahmahkibo.6375:

Lynnie.7213:

Zahmahkibo.6375:

I like the concept. Why not take Lingering Curse over Weakening Shroud? It’s a straight 50% damage increase for your scepter conditions, way more than the 10*2 ticks of bleed you’re getting every 20-25 seconds.

I tested it and was subpar in damage compared to this “final” build. The lingering curse condition damage boost doesn’t work in Reaper shroud like it used to work in Death Shroud. :/

Huh, how are you testing? It’s true that Lingering Curse doesn’t work in Reaper’s Shroud, but from some quick napkin math it’s still a much bigger DPS gain.

Using the rotation in the video, you use shroud, scepter 2, and scepter 3 twice each, and the scepter AA chain one. So Weakening Shroud adds 40 ticks of bleed and 1.0 * Power worth of hits, while LC adds 46 ticks of bleed, 28 ticks of torment, 6 ticks of poison, and +150 condition damage to all your S/F and utility skills.

I can see how WS would be better for clearing trash thanks to the AoE weakness and faster stacking, but on any boss fight of reasonable duration it looks like LC is gonna surpass it.

You have some valid points there and i’d be more than happy to test it out along this week.

Drawing Guy.3701:

One thing to not forget about Reaper’s Onslaught is it increases your physical damage along with the extra stack of Burning as you’re attacking faster. Another important factor is the on-kill cooldown trigger, allowing you to break out your 3, 4, and 5 when trash/adds are present. Another major concern is that Chill has no “most damage” intelligence built into it – any other chill even if it has no damage trait will overwrite yours erasing that damage.

In short, if number crunching shows deathly chill to out-DPS faster attacks + extra burn stack(s), it still would only be better in a single-target single-player-chilling situation.

Then comes the question of Spite vs Curses. Spite gives massive self-Might stacking, damage modifiers, and spinal shiver triggers for extra damage and chills. This obviously require different utilities – I like running Well of Suffering for solid damage, Suffer, and You Are All Weaklings for AoE weakness, might, and stun break.

I doubt a few more stacks of bleeding, 2 stacks of torment, and Target the Weak outweigh 25 stacks of might and 25% damage modifier, though once you’re in a group that gives you that might, it would go in favor of Curses.

Another suggestion is possibly forgoing Sigil of Venom for Sigil of Bursting? Poison is the weaker of the damage conditions, and boosting condition damage by 6% easily cover the poison stack losses. Also consider your off-swap having a Sigil of Corruption to have an additional 250 condition power for areas that you can build that up.

Also have you compared the 25% duration from runes vs the additional condition and power damage you get from Berserker runes? Runes of the Berserker would unquestionably win out on trash, but the extra stats and 5% condition damage (and 5% power damage if they ever fix that) is nothing to shake a stick at for bosses either.

I tested the same rotation using Reaper’s Onslaught and Deathly Chill and DC build won everytime. But as you said, chill can be overwritten by another player, so that is factor to take into consideration.
Since its a build for group content and assuming everyone can pull its own weight, i’d go with curses. You can stack 8 might stacks on yourself, if the others 4 players can’t contribute with something would be really sad, tbh.
But for solo playing style, i take curses anytime.
idk, i kinda prefer the condition duration over some lil power dmg boost. Lose 25% condition duration would be big and duration win anytime vs direct damage on longer fights, which is my point there.

I have been playing a Carrion (PVC) condi reaper not much different from yours. I used to use Sinister gear on the same Necro but HoT has been to challenging to me at first. Even to these days, TD and DS still a bit of a pain getting around.

Do you have survivability issues using a Viper/Sinister setup?

Oh My God.8423:

I have been playing a Carrion (PVC) condi reaper not much different from yours. I used to use Sinister gear on the same Necro but HoT has been to challenging to me at first. Even to these days, TD and DS still a bit of a pain getting around.

Do you have survivability issues using a Viper/Sinister setup?

I understand. In the first days of HoT i was struggling too until i learn the mobs/bosses mechanics and stuff.
Right now i don’t have any survival issues, unless i aggro 2 champions or like 10~15mobs on me.
I usually make pulls of 5~7, since they die so fast i can take them before run out of LF.

I’m not personally a fan of using dagger on a condition build. Since this is hybrid that’s fine. But I much prefer Scepter+dagger/focus with staff as my secondary weapon over anything else.

Personal preference. Neat build though.

Lynnie.7213:

I tested the same rotation using Reaper’s Onslaught and Deathly Chill and DC build won everytime. But as you said, chill can be overwritten by another player, so that is factor to take into consideration.
Since its a build for group content and assuming everyone can pull its own weight, i’d go with curses. You can stack 8 might stacks on yourself, if the others 4 players can’t contribute with something would be really sad, tbh.
But for solo playing style, i take curses anytime.
idk, i kinda prefer the condition duration over some lil power dmg boost. Lose 25% condition duration would be big and duration win anytime vs direct damage on longer fights, which is my point there.

Isn’t your testing only been on single-target no-competing-chills? Unfortunately DPS tests like this don’t take into consideration moving targets, avoiding attacks, and CC. You’re not getting quick recharges on 3 (stability – being knocked on your kitten hurts your DPS), 4, or 5 (a good CC and good damage against low-HP) without trash, and just one other reaper can easily cut your DPS in half or less from DC. Though Dungeons and Fractals are a controlled enough area that you can make sure DC is effective.

As for the duration – 6% damage to burns, chills, bleeds, and poison I see as easily outdoing losing less than 1s of Poison duration. Power, condition damage, 5% modifiers would take actual calculation and/or testing to see if it’s worth losing overall duration. Then the factor of the need for higher quick damage on trash vs long boss fights.

Drawing Guy.3701:

Lynnie.7213:

I tested the same rotation using Reaper’s Onslaught and Deathly Chill and DC build won everytime. But as you said, chill can be overwritten by another player, so that is factor to take into consideration.
Since its a build for group content and assuming everyone can pull its own weight, i’d go with curses. You can stack 8 might stacks on yourself, if the others 4 players can’t contribute with something would be really sad, tbh.
But for solo playing style, i take curses anytime.
idk, i kinda prefer the condition duration over some lil power dmg boost. Lose 25% condition duration would be big and duration win anytime vs direct damage on longer fights, which is my point there.

Isn’t your testing only been on single-target no-competing-chills? Unfortunately DPS tests like this don’t take into consideration moving targets, avoiding attacks, and CC. You’re not getting quick recharges on 3 (stability – being knocked on your kitten hurts your DPS), 4, or 5 (a good CC and good damage against low-HP) without trash, and just one other reaper can easily cut your DPS in half or less from DC. Though Dungeons and Fractals are a controlled enough area that you can make sure DC is effective.

As for the duration – 6% damage to burns, chills, bleeds, and poison I see as easily outdoing losing less than 1s of Poison duration. Power, condition damage, 5% modifiers would take actual calculation and/or testing to see if it’s worth losing overall duration. Then the factor of the need for higher quick damage on trash vs long boss fights.

yea, the dps test has to be on a golem to show off the rotation and stuff, but i ‘ve been running this build in fractals since HoT release and never had issue. The only skill that is position dependent is CPC, so moving targets are not an issue. CC also isn’t, because in general i use the stability of Shroud the moment i pop in. Trash mobs doesn’t live long enough to be a threat.
About the % condi dmg vs % duration, i am not quite sure, but i am more than happy to test out berserker runes. Anything to improve the build!

kitten man, how did you get all the recipes so quickly?! Tell me the secret

Huh, I somehow missed this thread, very nice and informative video! +1

Your build is not too far off from what I have settled on for group content now. Link to my build for reference: http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNArYGnMbiN3AmbCs3glgBLuI2EjiUXhtwvKKBEAaAA-ThiAQBQU9ntZDw1U6BtTAQXWfAAHCAAqPIaPBAQqMgNKBJFwiKrA-e

I’m not sure about my Rune/Sigil set-up tbh. Would be interesting to know if maxing out the duration of as many condis as possible wins out over more condi damage overall.

Also, I found myself using Spectral Grasp from time to time. I think it is very useful in condi Reaper builds as it gives you a strong CC, additional life-force generation and helps with the chill up-time if that should ever be a problem.

mazut.4296:

kitten man, how did you get all the recipes so quickly?! Tell me the secret

It is sold by exalted vendors for 250 aurilliums + silver each.
One or two meta events run should get you that.

Skoigoth.9238:

Huh, I somehow missed this thread, very nice and informative video! +1

Your build is not too far off from what I have settled on for group content now. Link to my build for reference: http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNArYGnMbiN3AmbCs3glgBLuI2EjiUXhtwvKKBEAaAA-ThiAQBQU9ntZDw1U6BtTAQXWfAAHCAAqPIaPBAQqMgNKBJFwiKrA-e

I’m not sure about my Rune/Sigil set-up tbh. Would be interesting to know if maxing out the duration of as many condis as possible wins out over more condi damage overall.

Also, I found myself using Spectral Grasp from time to time. I think it is very useful in condi Reaper builds as it gives you a strong CC, additional life-force generation and helps with the chill up-time if that should ever be a problem.

My original build was using spectral grasp but it got obstructed a lot.

Lynnie.7213:

mazut.4296:

kitten man, how did you get all the recipes so quickly?! Tell me the secret

It is sold by exalted vendors for 250 aurilliums + silver each.
One or two meta events run should get you that.

Oh lol, thought its only from exalted chests, ty

mazut.4296:

Lynnie.7213:

mazut.4296:

kitten man, how did you get all the recipes so quickly?! Tell me the secret

It is sold by exalted vendors for 250 aurilliums + silver each.
One or two meta events run should get you that.

Oh lol, thought its only from exalted chests, ty

Np, mate. Lego get you some viper stuffs.

I’ve been very successful in the raids with a build inspired by yours, I just instead opted to take Lingering Curse, Signet of Vampirism, Flesh Golem (for extra DPS and breakbar removal) and going Scepter/Dagger, Scepter/Focus. With close to 100% condition duration and the perfect match of the viper stats for Reaper, it rivals the other Condi builds I’ve seen of other classes. You also get some really nice bursting if you can take advantage of the RS4 in a nice combo field (like poison or fire)

Aesa.4819:

I’ve been very successful in the raids with a build inspired by yours, I just instead opted to take Lingering Curse, Signet of Vampirism, Flesh Golem (for extra DPS and breakbar removal) and going Scepter/Dagger, Scepter/Focus. With close to 100% condition duration and the perfect match of the viper stats for Reaper, it rivals the other Condi builds I’ve seen of other classes. You also get some really nice bursting if you can take advantage of the RS4 in a nice combo field (like poison or fire)

That is pretty cool to hear, mate. I didn’t got time to test raids for real yet. May go in a run tomorrow.
how was your dmg in there?

Lynnie.7213:

That is pretty cool to hear, mate. I didn’t got time to test raids for real yet. May go in a run tomorrow.
how was your dmg in there?

You should, it’s a lot of fun and also a great place to really see what your builds go for While I can’t really say exactly as there are no DPS-meters, and I don’t record and calculate etc, it was definitely a lot more than I expected and really impactful on the outcome of the encounter. Since the damage with this build is not dependent on a stationary target (except for CPC) I also had a really high DPS-uptime.
I’ve found that you should not stay in RS too long, only pop in and do RS4 on an appropriate field (fire or poison), and do some RS1 while the bigger CDs like Scepter 2, 3, D5, (CPC, BiP) + D4 are not yet up. I only use Focus 4 if I took too much losses in life force (due to damage) and need to replenish some. RS5 and Charge is great for destroying break bars, RS3 is good to keep seekers away for a little (fear+chill), and Signet of Vampirism helps everyone to stay alive while also dealing some damage.

It feels great that Reaper can do both a Zerk role, and a Condi/Viper role competetively! I have not yet tried a tank role, but from what I’ve read it seems like Reaper or Necro is quite suited for this as well

Aesa.4819:

Lynnie.7213:

That is pretty cool to hear, mate. I didn’t got time to test raids for real yet. May go in a run tomorrow.
how was your dmg in there?

You should, it’s a lot of fun and also a great place to really see what your builds go for While I can’t really say exactly as there are no DPS-meters, and I don’t record and calculate etc, it was definitely a lot more than I expected and really impactful on the outcome of the encounter. Since the damage with this build is not dependent on a stationary target (except for CPC) I also had a really high DPS-uptime.
I’ve found that you should not stay in RS too long, only pop in and do RS4 on an appropriate field (fire or poison), and do some RS1 while the bigger CDs like Scepter 2, 3, D5, (CPC, BiP) + D4 are not yet up. I only use Focus 4 if I took too much losses in life force (due to damage) and need to replenish some. RS5 and Charge is great for destroying break bars, RS3 is good to keep seekers away for a little (fear+chill), and Signet of Vampirism helps everyone to stay alive while also dealing some damage.

It feels great that Reaper can do both a Zerk role, and a Condi/Viper role competetively! I have not yet tried a tank role, but from what I’ve read it seems like Reaper or Necro is quite suited for this as well

Glad to hear this. I’ll be trying to raid this weekend on reaper again.

did you already test out if dps is better with beserker rune since it got patched?

Warotrix.9124:

did you already test out if dps is better with beserker rune since it got patched?

I didn’t yet. I promisse i’ll do this today. <3
You, EU player! lol

Edit: I just tested berserker runes with the same items and rotations than the video above and it suffered a considerable loss in dps. It got extra 4 seconds in timer for three consecutives golem kills, which means an approximately damage loss of 17k. Quite a bit, huh? I’ll certainly keep my nightmares+trapper.