idk what anet did with condi reapers in WvW but this is pretty crazy. I mean I’m all for good reaper condi builds but this is out of control. I get easy 2k+ bleed ticks on targets I’m not even targeting cuz of rise, chilling bolts and ice sigil…
I think 2 bleed stacks per chill would be fine (with increasing the duration of the bleed). This would give enemies more time to cleanse before dying of bleeds. As it is now it’s way too bursty for a condi build that you can just stack with vitality and toughness… Well I’m gonna make some condi reaper videos while this lasts but I do think that it should be nerfed.
Holtz let them be. Till they NERF all the op builds classes that have been ruling over wvw fpr years let necros have a taste. I despise condi gameplay because i disagree with anets idea of condi damage being as powerfull or more than ppwer based builds but for those that enjoy let it be. Ill just play this game till a better one comes around and even so im playing something else more fun after 1 hour of this boredom condi game.
The untargeted/minimal targeting thing is what bothers me the most. People laugh at me when I point at traited staff being carry but when I get touched by an unblockable hard to miss mark and get plastered with condi it triggers me. There are just too many traits that give conditions for doing conditions. I had one reaper cry because I flat out ran away from him, then I returned after he smashed his buttons and ranged him down. I might make a vid and post it here.
You’re kinda late to the party with this one.
People started to complain immediately after the patch in febuary went live that WvW was included in the PvE side of the trait split.
This one time I transferred 20 stacks of burning to a guardian and he died in one tick. Should they nerf burning too?
I wasn’t specifically talking about the transfer.
As I stated in the comments of my video: The crazy thing is, this was just me transferring some bleeds from another condi reaper. With certain traits like chilling darkness, chilling nova, etc and certain skills like well of darkness, nightfall, deathly swarm, spectral wall, etc you can EASILY get 60+ bleed stacks on a single target. This is definitely a bit much and should be toned down IMO.
You’re kinda late to the party with this one.
People started to complain immediately after the patch in febuary went live that WvW was included in the PvE side of the trait split.
Also, regarding that 7k bleed tick…
Yea I know sorry flow u_u
Only started playing in WvW again till recently so discovered this last week lol. That 7k tick was pretty high tho!!! Well highest I’ve gotten so far on not braindead players or NPC’s
You ask about nerfing deathly chill while you reach 7k bleed thank to a condi trnsfert on your video? I’m not sure that this is a proper video to valid your point. If it weren’t for the 14 bleed stack that you transfered, you would have done 4k damage which is correct.
No core profession should be balanced around an optional elite specialization.
You ask about nerfing deathly chill while you reach 7k bleed thank to a condi trnsfert on your video? I’m not sure that this is a proper video to valid your point. If it weren’t for the 14 bleed stack that you transfered, you would have done 4k damage which is correct.
“The crazy thing is, this was just me transferring some bleeds from another condi reaper. With certain traits like chilling darkness, chilling nova, etc and certain skills like well of darkness, nightfall, deathly swarm, spectral wall, etc you can EASILY get 60+ bleed stacks on a single target. This is definitely a bit much and should be toned down IMO.”
My point is more : “Ain’t the issue condition transfert and not deathly chill?”
Condi transfert is almost useless in PvE but shine in PvP/WvW.
Saying that the culprit is a trait that allow one to stack bleed while the real burst come from the condi transfert is a bit harsh. From my point of view this would just be another pointless nerf avoiding the real issue for the sake of keeping up with flawed design.
No core profession should be balanced around an optional elite specialization.
Why do roamers even QQ about condis in wvw? It is a mode for larger group play. So whats ur point? Try that in zergs with lots of cleansee. U’ll get 1 or 2 ticks on targets, IF.
Like in upper post guards stack fire like maniacs and fire>bleed dmg wise. With skills and traits.
We do have alot of skills which brings bleeds IF traited right. But still is hard to stack on the zerg.
Before HoT condi builds was almost none existent in wvw. Only in some romers builds.
Anyway WvW IS for MASS PvP and not for ROAMERS. Ther is SPvP for that. Roamers don’t contribute to WvW community, they just take out of it.
Why do roamers even QQ about condis in wvw? It is a mode for larger group play. So whats ur point? Try that in zergs with lots of cleansee. U’ll get 1 or 2 ticks on targets, IF.
Like in upper post guards stack fire like maniacs and fire>bleed dmg wise. With skills and traits.
We do have alot of skills which brings bleeds IF traited right. But still is hard to stack on the zerg.
Before HoT condi builds was almost none existent in wvw. Only in some romers builds.
Anyway WvW IS for MASS PvP and not for ROAMERS. Ther is SPvP for that. Roamers don’t contribute to WvW community, they just take out of it.
And that is why a lot of people will leave this game for a better one as soon as it comes out. Since most find zerging braindead gameplay in this game and roaming actually takes skill.
Why do roamers even QQ about condis in wvw? It is a mode for larger group play. So whats ur point? Try that in zergs with lots of cleansee. U’ll get 1 or 2 ticks on targets, IF.
Like in upper post guards stack fire like maniacs and fire>bleed dmg wise. With skills and traits.
We do have alot of skills which brings bleeds IF traited right. But still is hard to stack on the zerg.
Before HoT condi builds was almost none existent in wvw. Only in some romers builds.
Anyway WvW IS for MASS PvP and not for ROAMERS. Ther is SPvP for that. Roamers don’t contribute to WvW community, they just take out of it.
And that is why a lot of people will leave this game for a better one as soon as it comes out. Since most find zerging braindead gameplay in this game and roaming actually takes skill.
Many leave games for better ones… Still its a mode for mass pvp aka sieging, taking lands etc… to which roamers are not contributing, just taking slot from ppl who want to play in those as u think mindless zergs.
I agree, Holl. A lot of other people disagree however because they don’t want their easy mode taken away from them.
As a long time Necro main, of course I don’t want Reaper nerfed in to uselessness. Something needs to be done about the current state of condi Reaper in WvW, though. Anyone logical should be able to see that it’s overtuned at the moment and needs a couple shaves.
Why do roamers even QQ about condis in wvw? It is a mode for larger group play. So whats ur point? Try that in zergs with lots of cleansee. U’ll get 1 or 2 ticks on targets, IF.
Like in upper post guards stack fire like maniacs and fire>bleed dmg wise. With skills and traits.
We do have alot of skills which brings bleeds IF traited right. But still is hard to stack on the zerg.
Before HoT condi builds was almost none existent in wvw. Only in some romers builds.
Anyway WvW IS for MASS PvP and not for ROAMERS. Ther is SPvP for that. Roamers don’t contribute to WvW community, they just take out of it.
And that is why a lot of people will leave this game for a better one as soon as it comes out. Since most find zerging braindead gameplay in this game and roaming actually takes skill.
Many leave games for better ones… Still its a mode for mass pvp aka sieging, taking lands etc… to which roamers are not contributing, just taking slot from ppl who want to play in those as u think mindless zergs.
So me taking solo camps from an entire map and sentrys and yaks while the mindless zergs fight it off at Wall somewhere for 30m means im useless?
So me taking solo camps from an entire map and sentrys and yaks while the mindless zergs fight it off at Wall somewhere for 30m means im useless?
Well to be honest, if you aren’t at least solo capping the paper and t1 towers and keeps between the camps as well, the zerg duking it out on a wall somewhere are probably earning your server more score ticks.
The thing is that two condi reapers fighting one another are always going to stack massive number of bleeds when they transfer it back and forth.
This doesn’t happen when you fight other classes! Against other classes (if they know how to fight), I’ve never gone beyond 25 stacks of bleed (And this is achieved only if they eat heavy combos from me, in which case, the burst is very reasonable and they either clear it or die). And that is only around 3K damage per tick which many other condi classes are capable of bursting!
So me taking solo camps from an entire map and sentrys and yaks while the mindless zergs fight it off at Wall somewhere for 30m means im useless?
Well to be honest, if you aren’t at least solo capping the paper and t1 towers and keeps between the camps as well, the zerg duking it out on a wall somewhere are probably earning your server more score ticks.
So me doing the job or a small group already isnt enough? Im sorry but this game even if ot were meant to mass pvp doesnt appeal that much for the lack of alternatives when zerging. While roaming and outnumbered fights you will evolve much better as player while a zerg player from what i see gets picked off trying tp get back to the zerg by pro roamers.
So me doing the job or a small group already isnt enough? Im sorry but this game even if ot were meant to mass pvp doesnt appeal that much for the lack of alternatives when zerging. While roaming and outnumbered fights you will evolve much better as player while a zerg player from what i see gets picked off trying tp get back to the zerg by pro roamers.
Are you by any chance inebriated? Because that was really quite incoherent.
I got bad news for you.
the thing you want nerfed has been recently given in a similar way to condi revenant who is also stealing a WHOLE stack of boons with full duration (25 might 25 stab resistance protection) from those affected by the torment spam individually.
the trend continues, anet does not share your vision.
next patch i expect virtue of justice pvp changes rolling out to pve and wvw. enjoy burn spam even more on top of bleed and torment.
Get In The Van Yo[PR] -Play on Far Shiverpeaks/Gunner’s Hold/Vabbi
“Revenant is actual proof that devs read the necromancer forum” – Pelopidas.2140
I agree, Holl. A lot of other people disagree however because they don’t want their easy mode taken away from them.
As a long time Necro main, of course I don’t want Reaper nerfed in to uselessness. Something needs to be done about the current state of condi Reaper in WvW, though. Anyone logical should be able to see that it’s overtuned at the moment and needs a couple shaves.
Nobody vocal will ever support you.
Rational thought and the greater scheme of profession balance and integrity of design mean nothing to this generation of players, especially in WvW.
Honor fighting is dead and has been for a long, long time. It’s just a FoTM cesspool at this point and Necro happens to be the current favorite.
Just look at condi mesmer. It hasn’t seen a build change in over three years and has been broken this whole time.
idk what anet did with condi reapers in WvW but this is pretty crazy. I mean I’m all for good reaper condi builds but this is out of control. I get easy 2k+ bleed ticks on targets I’m not even targeting cuz of rise, chilling bolts and ice sigil…
I think 2 bleed stacks per chill would be fine (with increasing the duration of the bleed). This would give enemies more time to cleanse before dying of bleeds. As it is now it’s way too bursty for a condi build that you can just stack with vitality and toughness… Well I’m gonna make some condi reaper videos while this lasts but I do think that it should be nerfed.
-Hollts
I wrote pages and pages about this saying this is too much, i came up with valid points and all i got is: “finally necro got buffed and all you do is QQ”
and my fav is when im doing the fight of the day and a wild condi reaper appears pressses all utilities which are ofcourse shouts bamm 30 bleeds
I seriously don’t understand this necro community.
Being shoved aside for the last 4 years with really small buffs/tweaks with no big relevance or impact and being shoehorned into a one trick pony aka epidemic didn’t teach you anything? Hell, necro has been at the bottom of the food chain for the longest time, proof of that being that they are labeled as “walking lootbags” by the community, the bloody laughing stock that arguably sports the worst mobility in the game.
BUT the moment necro gets competitive, everyone goes crying for nerfs? Condi mesmers and thieves have been broken forever and nobody is bating an eye at that, btw both of those builds absolutely kitten on condi necro if played at the same level. Anything that doesn’t have half a brain will die to a condi necro right now, because that’s what they are good at, being a panzer within less than 600 range, but keep your distance from that range? then they are USELESS.
Now you cry for nerfs, get the nerfbat, then proceed to cry for another year that necro is crap and left to the dust by the devs. See the cycle?
Lancelot – Guardian – Deso – Hyperreal [PAL]
- Proudly not going to go DH -
I’m looking at you, Rev..
I seriously don’t understand this necro community.
Being shoved aside for the last 4 years with really small buffs/tweaks with no big relevance or impact and being shoehorned into a one trick pony aka epidemic didn’t teach you anything? Hell, necro has been at the bottom of the food chain for the longest time, proof of that being that they are labeled as “walking lootbags” by the community, the bloody laughing stock that arguably sports the worst mobility in the game.
BUT the moment necro gets competitive, everyone goes crying for nerfs? Condi mesmers and thieves have been broken forever and nobody is bating an eye at that, btw both of those builds absolutely kitten on condi necro if played at the same level. Anything that doesn’t have half a brain will die to a condi necro right now, because that’s what they are good at, being a panzer within less than 600 range, but keep your distance from that range? then they are USELESS.
Now you cry for nerfs, get the nerfbat, then proceed to cry for another year that necro is crap and left to the dust by the devs. See the cycle?
Well the real issues that lie down here is that wvw which is a pvp mode is balanced together with pve instead of being balanced with pvp. Simply put, players are not huge chunk of HP like bosses, champions or other monster with scaling health pool and it quickly become frustrating for players to die on “PvE skills”.
Add to that poor balance choices like the axe changes for warriors or making burn elementalist a tad bit to strong and you’ll end up with a discouraged community that feel like the balance team just change things blindly without the slightest care for players feedback.
No core profession should be balanced around an optional elite specialization.
I seriously don’t understand this necro community.
Being shoved aside for the last 4 years with really small buffs/tweaks with no big relevance or impact and being shoehorned into a one trick pony aka epidemic didn’t teach you anything? Hell, necro has been at the bottom of the food chain for the longest time, proof of that being that they are labeled as “walking lootbags” by the community, the bloody laughing stock that arguably sports the worst mobility in the game.
BUT the moment necro gets competitive, everyone goes crying for nerfs? Condi mesmers and thieves have been broken forever and nobody is bating an eye at that, btw both of those builds absolutely kitten on condi necro if played at the same level. Anything that doesn’t have half a brain will die to a condi necro right now, because that’s what they are good at, being a panzer within less than 600 range, but keep your distance from that range? then they are USELESS.
Now you cry for nerfs, get the nerfbat, then proceed to cry for another year that necro is crap and left to the dust by the devs. See the cycle?
Necro is a team player. People who don’t understand this want 1v1 buffs. People who do understand it are sick of condi reaper+tempest crushing small scale.
Necro is a team player. People who don’t understand this want 1v1 buffs. People who do understand it are sick of condi reaper+tempest crushing small scale.
A necro crushing in small scale requires good teamwork and peel from allies, the fact you mentioned a Tempest is really a whole other level of babysitting and shows really how necro is fragile, which is why it will get absolutely rekt before it can do anything in a coordinated gank thanks to the limited non-existent defensive tools necro has, by now everyone and their grandma realizes that necros can actually bite if left alive for too long so catching people out of guard won’t be as easy.
My gripe is why most necro mains are asking for nerfs when secretly they enjoy playing this kind of build and want it to stay like this, it’s specially stupid to ask for nerfs when you know Anet is dodgy on that regard and can actually make or break builds and considering the past history with necros it’s usually the latter. I guess people want necro to keep being kitten on forever and live as a walking meme.
Lancelot – Guardian – Deso – Hyperreal [PAL]
- Proudly not going to go DH -
I’m looking at you, Rev..
Necro is a team player. People who don’t understand this want 1v1 buffs. People who do understand it are sick of condi reaper+tempest crushing small scale.
A necro crushing in small scale requires good teamwork and peel from allies, the fact you mentioned a Tempest is really a whole other level of babysitting and shows really how necro is fragile, which is why it will get absolutely rekt before it can do anything in a coordinated gank thanks to the limited non-existent defensive tools necro has, by now everyone and their grandma realizes that necros can actually bite if left alive for too long so catching people out of guard won’t be as easy.
My gripe is why most necro mains are asking for nerfs when secretly they enjoy playing this kind of build and want it to stay like this, it’s specially stupid to ask for nerfs when you know Anet is dodgy on that regard and can actually make or break builds and considering the past history with necros it’s usually the latter. I guess people want necro to keep being kitten on forever and live as a walking meme.
You seem to think making reaper condi more reasonable will nerf their survivability.
A necro crushing in small scale requires good teamwork and peel from allies
Lmfao, no.
And how you proceeded to talk about durability when you end up with one of the tankiest stat distributions in the game (Dire/TB) and the highest base health and a second health pool with the best cleanses against what’s already a condi meta is just laughable.
The DC change in (WvW), much like everything else condition-based in general on top of that, is completely and totally overtuned.
I really don’t agree it’s that over the top if this is for PVP or WVW maybe but for raids without it necros would become irrelevant based on much of the discussion about the necros underperforming in raids with power builds. It’s a fix to a problem they created by promising a power necro (Reaper) and so far they’re unable to deliver on their promise. Yes for condi it did more but without a strong condi build in raids they will find themselves not playing raids at no fault of the player.
I will say I’m not seeing it dominating that much, I have a condi based and with it I so far seem to do less damage than if I nix the Reaper for more condi damage.
This one time I transferred 20 stacks of burning to a guardian and he died in one tick. Should they nerf burning too?
Yes, yes they should. Burning has always been OP since June 2015. The only reason you don’t see burn builds is because they almost never apply enough cover condis to help counter extreme cleansing, or even mild cleansing.
And they don’t even have to make burn applying professions weaker through a burning nerf. They can find other ways to help them out.
And this is coming from an ele, one who would hate to see the super fun burning raid build nerfed, but would be fine with it if it meant making other builds good too.
This one time I transferred 20 stacks of burning to a guardian and he died in one tick. Should they nerf burning too?
Yes, yes they should. Burning has always been OP since June 2015. The only reason you don’t see burn builds is because they almost never apply enough cover condis to help counter extreme cleansing, or even mild cleansing.
And they don’t even have to make burn applying professions weaker through a burning nerf. They can find other ways to help them out.
And this is coming from an ele, one who would hate to see the super fun burning raid build nerfed, but would be fine with it if it meant making other builds good too.
Enter left stage,
Reaper,
Where every condi causes another condi, causes another condi, causes another condi.
Condi, in general, is out of control. I have complained several times in the past few years about conditions, boons and manipulations of them just cheapening the whole theme of both but Arenanet just continues to increase condi-dps and cleansing.
I often think they should delete all conditions, boons, and CC from skills and re-build the game balance so that individual boons and conditions actually feel like they mean something. It feels like each balance developer has a couple of favorite professions and tries to one-up the others in the office. What we play is the result of continual one-upmanship, not real game balance.
You seem to think making reaper condi more reasonable will nerf their survivability.
More reasonable? How so? The reason condi mesmers and thieves are thriving and remain at the top of the food chain is because of the insane survival they gain through condi stat gear paired with all the defensive tools they have. So basically they have comparable damage to necros without any of their shortcomings, right now deathly chill is giving necro a edge damage wise and it’s warranted considering they are simply HP sponges and it will go down faster than any semi competent mesmer or thief. So nerfing deathly chill will just revert necro back to a kitten and crippled thief/mesmer, the only reason to play it would be for epi bombs and boon corrupt, that’s just stupid.
A necro crushing in small scale requires good teamwork and peel from allies
Lmfao, no.
And how you proceeded to talk about durability when you end up with one of the tankiest stat distributions in the game (Dire/TB) and the highest base health and a second health pool with the best cleanses against what’s already a condi meta is just laughable.
The DC change in (WvW), much like everything else condition-based in general on top of that, is completely and totally overtuned.
Please tell me how having 50k hp (base hp and shroud) is better than having blocks or invulns? Condi mesmers and thieves can match the same tanky stats than necros except for a slightly lower base HP. You can completely negate a burst on a thief and mesmers with good timing, you can’t do that on a necro outside of dodging and trust me it doesn’t matter all the HP you can slot is not gonna save your kitten.
Necros will still be the first target in any fight, but before this change it was because they were the easiest to lock down, now it’s still because of that but it is also because they can legit mess things up if left to their own devices. This is probably the best condi necro has been since they changes to chill dmg.
Lancelot – Guardian – Deso – Hyperreal [PAL]
- Proudly not going to go DH -
I’m looking at you, Rev..
I would argue that Deathly Chill be kept as it is in the current meta.
My reason is simple. It promotes extreme build diversity.
When you have a strong trait capable of ensuring you are able to compete against most enemies, you have the freedom to customize the rest of your build and are no longer pigeonholed into one or two builds.
Is the trait over-tuned though. No. Not really. Mesmers, Thieves, Warriors, Rangers, and now Revenants are all equally capable of condi bursting with loads of covering condi for a long while now and with even more mobility and survivability than a necro.
For once, I feel like any build that I like playing to suit my play-style is competitive on my necro. I only need to take that one trait and the rest could be anything I like. Even the curses trait line isn’t necessary anymore for a condi build. I could pair spite with Bm. Dm with bm. Soul reaping with dm. And so on.
I don’t know about u guys but I have been very excited about this diversity available to us now.
I would argue that Deathly Chill be kept as it is in the current meta.
My reason is simple. It promotes extreme build diversity.
Extreme build diveristy as in every reaper dealing damage through chill centric builds? Sounds quite diverse?
Honestly, WvW has many aspects. Solo roam small group roam pug zergs guild groups small fights large fights etc. Which mode we care about can be different from one another.
Are condi reapers a problem for pug zergs? Prob yes since they are less organised. Are condi reapers a problem for guild zergs? Prob no since they are usually good enough to share invulnerability and resistance and stab with loads of boon coverage through their mesmers and revs. So…should we nerf condi reaper to cater to the less organised pugs or should the pugs try to get better with their commander?
Are condi mesmers and thieves a problem for large fights? Prob no since they are mostly single target killers. Are they more a threat as a Zerg tail chaser chipping off the Zerg from behind? Prob yes against pug zergs since they are highly bursty and able to disengage easily. Prob no against guild zergs because they usually defend their own and leave no men behind. Should we nerf condi mesmers and thieves including their mobility and disengage so that the tail of the pug Zerg doesn’t get hunted and killed or should pug zerglings stick closer to their commander so they don’t get picked out? Or pug commanders not leaving their men behind?
Are condi reapers a problem for small group roaming? Prob yes for pug group roamers who just happen to come together and don’t really call target or share boons or support one another and each goes after their own enemy. Prob no for Organised small group roaming where they are usually just a smaller version of organised guild groups with all the boon share and support.
The list could go on for all the various game modes. And condi any class is usually a problem for less Organised groups which unfortunately is the majority of the pug players.
Also regarding my point on extreme build diversity, if the means of damage equates tothe lack of diversity to you, then no condi class has any diversity. If you notice, anet is giving each class it’s own unique damage condition and means to apply it. Every condi class has to take that one trait that amplifies their unique condi damage and means to apply it.
For us reapers, just by taking that one trait, I am not forced to pick anything else. I don’t even need curses now which was previously important for condi builds. I can diversify and choose different traits and utilities and weapon types and still be competitive. Are other condi classes as diversifiable as us? Prob no. Although they can be equally bursty, they prob only have that few condi builds to play with.
Necro is a team player. People who don’t understand this want 1v1 buffs. People who do understand it are sick of condi reaper+tempest crushing small scale.
A necro crushing in small scale requires good teamwork and peel from allies, the fact you mentioned a Tempest is really a whole other level of babysitting and shows really how necro is fragile, which is why it will get absolutely rekt before it can do anything in a coordinated gank thanks to the limited non-existent defensive tools necro has, by now everyone and their grandma realizes that necros can actually bite if left alive for too long so catching people out of guard won’t be as easy.
My gripe is why most necro mains are asking for nerfs when secretly they enjoy playing this kind of build and want it to stay like this, it’s specially stupid to ask for nerfs when you know Anet is dodgy on that regard and can actually make or break builds and considering the past history with necros it’s usually the latter. I guess people want necro to keep being kitten on forever and live as a walking meme.
You seem to think making reaper condi more reasonable will nerf their survivability.
No point in trying to reason with them.
The problem is that condi Reaper is deadly even in the hands of a moron, which most are. It’s an uphill battle just like it is against condi Mesmers. Give it to someone who actually knows how to use it and the problems become a lot more apparent.
People here think it’s weak because they have no idea how to use it. They open palm mash their keyboard and bad players die but when they’re against someone who knows how to deal with them, suddenly they feel “weak.” Just because something can be countered doesn’t mean it’s weak. You can counter condi Mesmers as well and I do so quite often, many other educated players do as well. Against a good one, though? Same story as against a good condi Reaper, they can make way, waaay more mistakes than you and are so much harder to bring down if you don’t play perfectly.
Don’t get me wrong, I have no issue with conditions or Necro or what ever else. Few things I find broken enough to complain about. I’m just agreeing that condition Reaper is overtuned at the moment and needs some shaves.
