Guild Wars 2

Why are necro’s the only class without access to vigor?

Something tells me it’s because vigor denotes life and energy…something necro’s are on the opposite end of the spectrum with. /sadface

Or block, invul, reflect, evade….
This has been asked many times but we won’t get an answer.

Because we are death.

We did get an answer: anet wants to maintain class diversity. If you want to roll a boon machine you just can’t pick the necro.

And btw, Well of Power + bleeding/chilled = vigor.

flow.6043:

We did get an answer: anet wants to maintain class diversity. If you want to roll a boon machine you just can’t pick the necro.

And btw, Well of Power + bleeding/chilled = vigor.

That’s more depressing than not getting an answer. If condition works on boss then it might be OK, but it doesnt. If I can fear/blind the boss when I’m out of dodge then I can live with it, even conditions are usually inferior to boon counterpart.

flow.6043:

We did get an answer: anet wants to maintain class diversity. If you want to roll a boon machine you just can’t pick the necro.

And btw, Well of Power + bleeding/chilled = vigor.

There’s a lot of ground between boon machine and its opposite, it doesn’t have to be one or the other. I get that necro’s are boon removers, would just be nice to have adequate access to the only real avoidance mechanic in the game. But it’s not necessary I guess.

fyi, it negates the point of dodging if you have to stand inside a well to get vigor. :/

Yeh, this is a huge prob with necro’s now we can’t use DS as a block.
Dev’s say were suppose to be THE attrition class, trying to extend the fight as long as possible as we get stronger the longer it go’s.
Were now the class who can’t avoid the 1 shot hits from boss’s after 30sec in a fight.

Afya.5842:

flow.6043:

We did get an answer: anet wants to maintain class diversity. If you want to roll a boon machine you just can’t pick the necro.

And btw, Well of Power + bleeding/chilled = vigor.

That’s more depressing than not getting an answer. If condition works on boss then it might be OK, but it doesnt. If I can fear/blind the boss when I’m out of dodge then I can live with it, even conditions are usually inferior to boon counterpart.

While I can see why they changed fear to be affected by defiant (because it was pretty OP before I can only imagine now when we have even more fears), I wish blinds were much more effective on bosses. As it stands the “chance” they have to work thanks to defiant is really no chance at all. I think I can count on one hand where a single blind actually worked on a boss. That’s my only beef about it.

Obsidian.1328:

fyi, it negates the point of dodging if you have to stand inside a well to get vigor. :/

You don’t have to stand still, wells aren’t that small. Dodge range is 300, well diameter: 480, so you can even dodge within the well while your condis are turned into boons.
And base duration for vigor is 9 sec, with 6 pulses you are theoretically able to get enough vigor until the well is off cd again. I have +20% boon duration and I sometimes get swiftness for over 1 min from the camp veterans in wvw.

Essentially ANet wants us to have a unique defensive setup, because we are, uniquely, supposed to be an attrition class based on using pure aggression and debuffing to out-sustain our opponents.

The key part there is aggression. Some devs have compared it to fighting, Necromancers should be very aggressive fighters who can constantly stay in the pocket and by out-trading their opponents, they wear them down and win through a sustained and strong offense.

This is why, if you look at Necromancers, we have almost nothing that is purely defensive. Want to get regen or life siphons? You have to hit someone else first. Want Life Force? You get it by hitting or killing something. Even a lot of our more “pure” defensive options do better offensively, even our heals reward us for aggression.

That is why we will pretty much never get vigor unless they absolutely need to give it to us. It just doesn’t fit with their vision of the class, and I agree. I want them to do everything they can to our aggression first before giving us boons as a cop-out.

BiP+WoP. I used to use this in power/boon-duration builds for Teq.

A power/boon duration/wells/corruption build can get you Might most of the time, Vigor pretty frequently, and even Stability but you need to build for it and it will cost dps when Might isn’t up so you have to keep after it.

Bhawb > Most class’s get Vig on Crit.
I’d also love to see some fun, awesome necro only way to mitigate that 1 shot mechanic after 30secs in a fight, where the necro had to be aggressive enough to build it. Say, if DS could suck up a hit of any size, that way we could use it as a block after building enough life force to activate it, and it’d require skill to time it’s CDs…
Oh wait…

Bweaty.9187:

Bhawb > Most class’s get Vig on Crit.
I’d also love to see some fun, awesome necro only way to mitigate that 1 shot mechanic after 30secs in a fight, where the necro had to be aggressive enough to build it. Say, if DS could suck up a hit of any size, that way we could use it as a block after building enough life force to activate it, and it’d require skill to time it’s CDs…
Oh wait…

I see what you did there loool

New to necro. My biggest complaint isnt necassarily lack of vigor or evade or block since deathshroud is IMO better than most of those in many situations, but the lack of stability. Coming from a warrior main getting knocked around so much will take some getting use to.

^
pve: vigor
pvp: stability

Your best bet is to ask for some way to leech endurance from an enemy.

You have a 2nd hp pool, lots of blinds/chills/weakness/fears and potentionally high protection uptime via traited wells/spectral armor/runes and you NEED vigor too? Stability every 5-10 seconds traited. Not to mention having best condition removal in game with staff 4, dagger 4 and a decent functioning heal that removes all conditions.

Sorry but l2p lol.

sorrychief.2563:

You have a 2nd hp pool, lots of blinds/chills/weakness/fears and potentionally high protection uptime via traited wells/spectral armor/runes and you NEED vigor too? Stability every 5-10 seconds traited. Not to mention having best condition removal in game with staff 4, dagger 4 and a decent functioning heal that removes all conditions.

Sorry but l2p lol.

Try meleeing lupi on a necro without endurance food and 2 energy sigils.

The devs are not going to balance classes out based on pve. . . oh wait.

I know and the ironic thing is pve is the largest player base they have.

PvE is far harder to balance, and until they make it any bit meaningfully hard, then balance really only affects how quickly you can kill stuff. Even with how un-competitive PvP is made out to be, PvE is far less so.

I don’t think ANet wants to give us vigor/stability boons directly, so besides some kind of way to leech endurance, as Overkillengine suggested, then how about a trait to increase endurance regen by 33%-50% while in DS?

Not sure about our stability problem, as without having the boon directly, I can think of that would have the same effect… Other than the long lost legendary trait Shade.

Shade as it used to be can’t be re-introduced into the game; although it is incredibly weaker than it once was. I think the current stability on entry has essentially replaced it.

What I would really like to see is an Aegis on-DS entry with an ICD, or even a short duration invuln/block on DS entry, but with an ICD to compensate for an obviously strong ability, as a trait. I feel like there are a lot of unique ways they could continue molding DS into our major defensive tool without resorting to just slapping boons all over us (I realize I just said Aegis, but w/e).

I like the concept of endurance stealing, I just don’t know how they’d implement it, because it would be really strong if we just straight stole endurance from some classes. Maybe a skill that creates a “spectral bond” between us and a target, where a certain % of their endurance used is given to us?

SmoothHussler > For usal damage, I do love my DS. Do love that it’s diff than other class’s, that you have to keep attacking to get the life force. Where it falls down is, the 1 shot mechanics in lots of dungeons. Before we could use DS as a ‘block’ to suck up 1 hit no matter what the size, now. Well were the only class that doesn’t have access to deal with these boss’s.

Yeh, I’m all up for ‘leeching’ endurance! (Anything really that would let us keep up in dungeons, It’d be super nice if it was a necro feeling way too)

spoj.9672:

I know and the ironic thing is pve is the largest player base they have.

On a side note, I wonder whether PvE or PvP players buy the most gems with real money. That is the group Arenanet should be teasing the hardest.

Its PvE simply because there are more PvErs. I think proportionally it is likely equal, if not favoring PvP slightly because PvP players really like the new skins, and its one of the best ways to get nice looking skins without being rank 80 or spending gold (which many don’t have), while a lot of PvErs can probably not only go without the new skins but also buy gems with gold.

I’d be an interesting figure to see though.

I am mainly a PvE player crafting to make new looks, buying skins and transmutation stones, experimenting with different stats, runes, sigils, etc. I know I have spent over $100 on gems but the mix of players buying gems with real money is probably diverse. However, Arenanet should know who their real customers are and who the deadbeats are, too, that never buy gems with real money.

The business side of me wants to reward loyal paying customers with plenty of perks to keep them coming back and encourage the moochers to open their pocketbooks. Arenanet is in business to make money (real money, not game gold) so a reality check for them is to find out who are their bread-and-butter customers and keep them extremely happy.

The current way they are doing things is generally okay, as it doesn’t necessarily benefit any one side more than the other. Everyone can use all the skins they release, or minis.

Their current way of class balancing isnt right though. I honestly think they should have a pve class balancing team. So changes arent purely based on whats needed in pvp and just adjusted to not break pve.

That would essentially mean they split between PvE and PvP, which they have said many times is not a road they want to go down at all.

No it doesnt mean that. They can have 2 teams which know what each side wants/needs but they work with each other to keep the skills constant through all gametypes as much as possible when making changes.

Atm to get something good in pve we have to find a reason for it be needed in pvp otherwise the devs wont even consider it. I dont want to have to says to the devs, in pvp we should have orders because of this and that. When in reality its just something I want for pve.

I have never heard that the balance team is PvP only…

Its pretty obvious the changes made are purely because of pvp. Dont tell me you cant see that? Class balance is completely focused around pvp and for the most part it has resulted in nerfs to pve in many areas.

Blood is Power+Well of Power.

spoj.9672:

Its pretty obvious the changes made are purely because of pvp. Dont tell me you cant see that? Class balance is completely focused around pvp and for the most part it has resulted in nerfs to pve in many areas.

They have made some PvE changes, and changed some things to affect only PvP. If you want to be totally honest, the reality is that PvE’s balance is kitten not because of skills themselves, but because of terrible PvE design. They could change a lot of fights to make PvE far more balanced and it would be a lot easier than changing a couple dozen skills instead to make balance better.

I think they realize it too, but the reality is PvE balance will be crap until they actually rework a lot of dungeons and the general design of things, and make it harder. But for now, PvE will remain max DPS and boon-spam builds with reflection being top tier. “Perfect” balance in PvE would only mean they made every class exactly the same; high direct damage spikes, boon spamming, and reflection.

Lets see how they will do to the new TA. If it promote condition, workaround unshakable then we can have some hope. But honestly I believe it’s OHKO centered.

I cant think of a single pve orientated balance change. There were a few which were beneficial to pve either by buffing a worse class or nerfing warrior damage but they were all introduced for pvp reasons.

For me, I’ve bought 6 copys of the game for buddys. (All have quit, but anyway.)
I took a few months of due to bugs making me too mad to play. But I’d blow ~$30 a month on gemstore adv on months I do play. I guess.
This is the first MMO I haven’t got ‘hooked’ with PvP. Kinda weird as other MMO’s I’ve sat within the top 1% for years, and generally been top rank in MMO I couldn’t stand PvE content in.
Other people I know that have dumped $ into gem store. Only PvE.
Anyway small sample. And I don’t know that many heavily into PvP as I just don’t hang there much I guess. But no one I used to PvP with for hours and hours each day with in other games, have liked PvP here either.

From what I’ve heard the dev’s say. There heavy PvP’ers also PvE, and WvW.

Anyway, I’ve tried really hard with this game. All my gaming buddys from other games, gave up and mock me for the outstanding basic bugs here. (From Mini-pet code, to terrible dungeons, to even the new ‘raid fight’ that’s in world where people can’t be kicked for stuffing it up for others deliberately [and hours respawn/reset time])

I’ve also tried really hard to just have 1 main, my necro. Not a collection of top geared class’s.
This is also the first time I’ve bothered talk on forums in a MMO, if not on the dev team.

Anyway, I’ve been using my guard alt more & more. I’d say Im a good necro & a ok’ish guard. But, PvE wise, I already feel lots more useful & powerful on my guard. To the point, where if they let me swap my soulbound perm axe/etc over I’d prob swap. (If they had them up on gemshop, I’d maybe even buy another set)

Anyway, Im not buying anything from GemShop this month.
I think my heart says, if they don’t fix up big things with the game next patch… I’m going to retire. ESO & WildStar beta are much more fun than I expected.
It’s painful to say, I do have a deep love of lots of things here. But yeh… Guess it will be checking back every 1-3 months to see if the games fixed enough to be ‘fun’.