Vs InvisiThief as a Conditionmancer
My marks seem to be very good for killing them when using a condition build. In other words, AOEs are great against invisible targets. Melee attacks can work too.
Generally, I don’t go head on with the thief. By that, I mean, I dodge around and keep distance from them. We also have several interrupts that can allow us to start wailing on them.
Anyways, I’m not sure if your problem is related to your build or if you need to get better at using dodges and the necro skills?
I just read the staff’s auto attack can hit thieves even if they’re invisible. No idea if this is true but worth a shot right?
User will be infracted for this post.
As does death shroud’s attacks (not Doom).
Arenanet: The paragon of truth.
My marks seem to be very good for killing them when using a condition build. In other words, AOEs are great against invisible targets. Melee attacks can work too.
Generally, I don’t go head on with the thief. By that, I mean, I dodge around and keep distance from them. We also have several interrupts that can allow us to start wailing on them.
Anyways, I’m not sure if your problem is related to your build or if you need to get better at using dodges and the necro skills?
This is currently the build I use – http://www.gw2build.com/builds/simulator.php#1.5.2.7.13.0.21.31.21.0.106.126.120.123.128.9.5.29.305.312.310.316.317.326.0.0.0.0.0.0.364.0.0.30.30.0.0.10
Spectral Grasp, Doom, Staff5 as interrupts.
I’m guessing it was a hybrid build that focuses on stealthing constantly to heal and remove conditions and re-open with stealth attacks?
I’ve done builds like that with P/D and there’s really nothing you’d be able to do about it with a condition build.
Each stealth removes a condition, heals, stacks 2 might, and gives 2 init, then they consantly unload on you with conditions.
If that’s not the case then using aoe’s like marks/grasping hands/enfeeble and kiting should do the trick.
Most thieves will had Hide in Shadow and Shadowstep for 2 complete condition dumps, but that’s 2 dumps on cooldowns as opposed to sustain condition removal. So just keeping pressure on them will force those cooldowns, avoid trying to unload EVERYthing you got onto them and spread it out.
If it IS the P/D condition build I’m talking about, good use of condition transfer will help, as well as trying to bury your bleeds, but again that build is pretty much broken in a 1v1, it’s a true attrition playstyle Necro’s should be jealous of.
(edited by Knote.2904)
My Condition/Power hybrid build is posted near the end of this thread on page 2: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Post-Your-Build-Thread/page/2#post673964
I’m not a fan of the scepter (and similarly for axe) because it’s generally only good if you can maintain distance while facing your target. That would mean that you would need to rely on some means to slow them down (e.g., your AOE cripple from scepter, or other skills).
In my fights, I often times turn around and run. Sometimes perpendicular to them. Sometimes directly away from them. The point is, I’m running in the direction I’m facing because it’s faster than walking backwards. I also dodge to keep my distance. And during this time, I drop down marks to damage them and protect myself.
And, I generally never unload all of my best skills, because if I do it all at once, they’d only have to remove all of that at once. So I keep some of my better skills for after they do any removal, or to spike them (but the spike is most likely not going to work quite that well with your build since you have the scepter).
With regards to interrupts, once I interrupt them with one of my skills, I may also just start wailing on them with my heavy damage skills (i.e., stack condition or deal physical damage), and continually interrupt them if necessary and if I have any left.
Anyways, looking at your build, I think the biggest concern is that you don’t have the “Greater Marks” trait to make your marks bigger. And you may want to consider using Flesh Golem (but I don’t actually need any minions to defeat a thief, although it makes it easier).
(edited by Stormy O.7025)
Yeah, it was P/D. :\
Yeah, it was P/D. :\
Nothing you can do buddy.
/pat.
I suggest trying it out and cackling at how good it is. Might help you gain some perspective on it too.
30 Points in Shadow Arts. 2 init, condition cleanse on stealth, and heal in stealth.
10 Points in Trickery. caltrops on dodge.
20 Points in Acrobatics. Might on dodge. Heal using Init.
10 Points wherever and Shaman Amulet/Undead runes.
CnD, dodge roll back, unload x5 bleed. (2-4 bleeds/cripple from mini caltrops if you dodged away from on top of em), auto, auto, repeat ad nauseum.
(edited by Knote.2904)
I am full mm, i killed a thief while I was afk. My 30k health, 2800 armor and the thieve’s lack of AOE and the minions had him down before he had me down.
Anyways, looking at your build, the biggest concern is that you don’t have the “Greater Marks” trait to make your marks bigger. And you may want to consider using Flesh Golem (but I don’t actually need any minions to defeat a thief, although it makes it easier).
I might consider getting the Greater Mark trait, but the Thief can use 5 on the Golem or any Minion rather against me.
So it was a P/D thief… I wrote my suggestions assuming it was a melee centric thief, but I think some of it is still applicable.
I don’t ever remember seeing one with my necro (although I have met a few of them on my elementalist, and after the first fight, I was able to figure out a way to deal with them, with my D/D elementalist). Or maybe the P/D ones I met were too easy to dispatch to be memorable when using my necro. I mostly see melee centric thieves (e.g., backstab or pistol whip or etc.).
I also want to say that you may want to consider warhorn? I think the interrupt is great. And the AOE cripple from swarm may be able to keep them from using cloak and dagger on you.
P.S. – once they fix the invis render bug with thieves, it’ll probably be easier.
P.S.2 – I’ve never really had much of an issue with them using Cloak and Dagger off my minions though. And one reason I like minions is that if I hide behind them, they take all of the projectile hits for me.
(edited by Stormy O.7025)
First you must have high toughness and decent or high vit. You spam AoE skills dodge randomly and hope they are really bad at the game (good thing most are).
There are no tactics vs them because its a fight that is just a spam fest. Never had a skill based fight with a thief fights over win or lose in a few seconds.
What does help is wells and strong power based marks, its a hard fight for condition spec.
A good thief will kill you without much effort no matter what anyone tells you the rendering bug is gamebreaking have the same issues with decent mesmers.
Xomox ~Human Necro/Engineer ET
(edited by Xom.9264)
I am full mm, i killed a thief while I was afk. My 30k health, 2800 armor and the thieve’s lack of AOE and the minions had him down before he had me down.
You posted this in the wrong threat… this was supposed to go in the “phrases you don’t hear in Gw2”
…. or the thief was kittendedly bad, level 4 and did not load stealth.
I am full mm, i killed a thief while I was afk. My 30k health, 2800 armor and the thieve’s lack of AOE and the minions had him down before he had me down.
You posted this in the wrong threat… this was supposed to go in the “phrases you don’t hear in Gw2”
…. or the thief was kittendedly bad, level 4 and did not load stealth.
That had to be the worst thief in the entire game. Because no way minions killed a any human with any amount of intelligence and on a thief.
I’m guessing it was a hybrid build that focuses on stealthing constantly to heal and remove conditions and re-open with stealth attacks?
I’ve done builds like that with P/D and there’s really nothing you’d be able to do about it with a condition build.
Each stealth removes a condition, heals, stacks 2 might, and gives 2 init, then they consantly unload on you with conditions.
If that’s not the case then using aoe’s like marks/grasping hands/enfeeble and kiting should do the trick.
Most thieves will had Hide in Shadow and Shadowstep for 2 complete condition dumps, but that’s 2 dumps on cooldowns as opposed to sustain condition removal. So just keeping pressure on them will force those cooldowns, avoid trying to unload EVERYthing you got onto them and spread it out.
If it IS the P/D condition build I’m talking about, good use of condition transfer will help, as well as trying to bury your bleeds, but again that build is pretty much broken in a 1v1, it’s a true attrition playstyle Necro’s should be jealous of.
Yeah I think though if you manage to keep your distance you will make it harder for them since they need melee range to restealth outside of the longer cooldowns. But this is the least mobile, most cumbersome class trying to kite the most mobile so idk :/ Additionally they can probably easily run away and reset the fight if they get into trouble.
ANd lol yus thiefs being better at attrition /sad
This guy is good and also playing a good class:
@Kisses video – Might as well reroll Thief, that doesn’t seem hard to do at all.
It also looks like a lot of fun. Active, dynamic, fun combat. Stealth gives you the information advantage. Mobility gives you the range/positioning advantage. Healing gives you the longevity advantage. Why doesn’t everyone play that class?
Any tips? Any tricks? Anything at all? How can I fight something I can not see and removes all conditions while regenerating HP in Stealth?
I was killed at least 20 times today by 3 different InvisiThiefs.
So my butt-hurt level is through the right roof now. :[
Things I’ve learned to do when fighting a theif:
- cast your marks at your feet, not between you and them. they’ll port right past, and you’re their objective so you know where they’re going.
- their dmg comes in spurts, be ready to pop DS but don’t hang out in it for longer than you have to, and when you are in DS make sure you’re doing more than just soaking up dmg.
- make them pay a price for getting to close. thieves hate our wells. nowadays if a thief is attacking me from stealth I simply stop running, drop well, pop DS and #4 till I can see them again.
- use your fears wisely. like i said before their dmg comes in bursts due to their mechanic, if you don’t have DS available you’ll need your fears.
- Shadow Refuge – their little invisible hut, use the Fear mark to push them out of it before they can get the full benefit. if Fear mark is on cooldown then just throw all your marks on it and pressure them out with dmg.
- I like the warhorn for fighting thieves since hte daze stops them from hitting you entirely and the locust swarm will cripple them when they try to HS spam you.
hope those help. good luck!
Hackkz/Riggamaroll
I’ve stayed at this party entirely too long
I’ve stayed at this party entirely too long