Guild Wars 2

Hi necro community. I play necro, but mainly in WvW. I main ele in PvE. I post lfgs for meta zerker pugs, and quite often necros join, but I have yet to see a necro that actually runs the meta necro build for pve. I know necros are the least desired class for pve, and that really doesn’t matter to my pug runs as long as they’re running relatively optimal builds for their class. But for necros, I never see it.

Ever.

6/6/0/0/2 with MH dagger. Why do no pug necros run this build? All I ever see is condition builds that steal my lightning hammer so my DPS plummets, and then complain it can’t apply conditions when I repeatedly tell them not to pick up my hammer. They then try to justify running conditions by saying it adds to their normal damage and that they still DPS when CCed. Oh god.

Another necro I pugged with was a whiny tpvp scrub who just sat back with a staff for every fight and couldn’t survive trash runs in TA. The closest to meta necro I’ve seen was a D/D MM build. But still. Why do I never see good quality berserker dagger/well necros in PUGs? I tend to see suboptimal builds in other classes far less frequently. The worst I see is cleric guardians or GS mesmers, but they’re not as useless as condition/MM necros.

Anyway, I hope I don’t sound elitist or whatnot as I post this, because I really want to know why this plague of pve building incompetence is sweeping over this class. Its very much the same as the bearbow ranger epidemic in my eyes. Hopefully any feedback on this you can provide will keep me from adding “no necros” to my LFG posts.

You’ve obviously never played with me. We should run fractals sometime.

Serious answer:

The reason you don’t see competent players using necromancer is because competent players run Warrior/Guardian instead when running with PuGs, and save Necromancer for guildies. That leads the bads to represent any PvE necromancer you might come across.

Generally what Kain said. Most PvE players will have alts to play and generally can leave their Necromancer for “fun” or other content. People like myself who are lazy end up just having to play Necromancer, and many don’t learn how to do it well.

That said, the issue is even further complicated because most players don’t play Necromancer for direct damage. They think Necromancer = condition damage or Necro = minions, and so they just screw around doing whatever they think is okay even though its making the run far harder than it should be.

As a side note, you can technically make minions work for zerker PvE IF you know the content well, how to swap them out so they don’t screw up pulls, still build high damage, etc. But its rarely worth the effort so I save them for when my pug group is wiping on “hard” bosses so the minions can tank for them, because god forbid we have to actually fight the boss to kill it. They really just exist to make content easier, but people bring them into runs where everyone else is perfectly capable of killing the boss the “proper” way with no need of the minions to help things along.

If a necro cared about meta, why would he play necro since necro is not in the meta?

Tim.6450:

If a necro cared about meta, why would he play necro since necro is not in the meta?

Very high damage, provided there are buffs.

I’ve seen videos where it deals 8k(x2)+7k+11k damage autoattack. Combined with Wells, I believe a Necromancer could even out-dps a Warrior.

However, I would like to see tests about this.

Good insight necros. My rage has calmed.

What about the build 6/2/0/0/6 for pve? Is it as good for dungeons as the 6/6/0/0/2 one?

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fRAQRBHhhu1IHNN2WdjLNc4moWoguODgZIqTg62YOqWA-TxRGABAcSAGS5HI7PQm+hyeCAAq+jUKBFEwoA-e

6/2/0/0/6 is for when your group isn’t doing very well and isn’t buffing well. Basically I use 6/6 for any dungeon where I can expect to stack and do well on bosses. If stacking isn’t working, I use 6/2.

Was the one with 6 in ferocity the more damaging spec before it got changed to ferocity? I only ask because it would seem if you have a group giving you buffs and your using zerkers you wouldn’t need all the precision your getting from the curses line.

Give me the new meta build for necro and I’ll run it, because I haven’t been able to find the best damage dealing build for dungeons yet.

NeXeD.3042:

Was the one with 6 in ferocity the more damaging spec before it got changed to ferocity? I only ask because it would seem if you have a group giving you buffs and your using zerkers you wouldn’t need all the precision your getting from the curses line.

I’ve seen a lot of variation in power builds, i havent done tests to see which is the top dps tho. To answer your second question power builds often put 5 in curses line to get the damage boost via target the weak. I personally run 6/2/0/0/6 as i often run with pugs and non meta groups. And 6 in soul reaping gives you a ton of survivability and option to range better than the 5 in curses build in case your group runs into a tough situation.

To the OP. I myself have only seen condi necros or some weird power/hyrbid builds where you can tell they’re not zerker cuz they just dont kill fast. I think people see light armor, caster type class and they opt for staff and scepter as their weapons. Not to mention there is so few necros i get in pugs. I think if any newer necro players came on the forums they might just reroll after all the crap people talk about the class. Its too bad cuz it seems necros have pretty high damage vs the other classes. Only my ele and theif beat my necro in dps.

OMNIBUS.2913:

NeXeD.3042:

Was the one with 6 in ferocity the more damaging spec before it got changed to ferocity? I only ask because it would seem if you have a group giving you buffs and your using zerkers you wouldn’t need all the precision your getting from the curses line.

I’ve seen a lot of variation in power builds, i havent done tests to see which is the top dps tho. To answer your second question power builds often put 5 in curses line to get the damage boost via target the weak. I personally run 6/2/0/0/6 as i often run with pugs and non meta groups. And 6 in soul reaping gives you a ton of survivability and option to range better than the 5 in curses build in case your group runs into a tough situation.

To the OP. I myself have only seen condi necros or some weird power/hyrbid builds where you can tell they’re not zerker cuz they just dont kill fast. I think people see light armor, caster type class and they opt for staff and scepter as their weapons. Not to mention there is so few necros i get in pugs. I think if any newer necro players came on the forums they might just reroll after all the crap people talk about the class. Its too bad cuz it seems necros have pretty high damage vs the other classes. Only my ele and theif beat my necro in dps.

+1

NeXeD.3042:

Was the one with 6 in ferocity the more damaging spec before it got changed to ferocity? I only ask because it would seem if you have a group giving you buffs and your using zerkers you wouldn’t need all the precision your getting from the curses line.

No, it was just 6/5/0/0/3, all that changed was 1 from SR to Curses. The big change is the 5 bonus, which can easily be a 10% damage boost. Also, the 6 in ferocity is done solely for the 50% crit chance to give you an easy 44% just from gear, which allows you to then stack the rest of your things into power (food, stacks, etc.) and ferocity. However, the second you get a banner, spotter (ranger trait), and fury, you’re way over 100% and you’re basically wasting damage because you’ve capped out (which won’t happen with dagger). Also this damage is only that high while in DS, once you drop out of DS you lose damage.

However in the other build, just from berzerker armor you’re sitting at 54% crit chance with dagger. With food you hit 59, banner and spotter will bring you a bit higher, fury is also a free 20%, and it isn’t limited by DS. You also have Target the Weak, which is an easy 10% damage buff.

Basically, the curses build actually gives you less overall precision because its the extra 200 precision vs 50% crit chance while in DS. Run the DS build when you aren’t in groups with a lot of buffs, or if kiting is going to be a big thing, dagger is for more optimized groups.

jun.7084:

Give me the new meta build for necro and I’ll run it, because I haven’t been able to find the best damage dealing build for dungeons yet.

Go to the sticky at the top of this subforum for spoj’s build which is the best for good groups.

As for DPS stuff, we beat other people’s DPS when the group already has a ton of DPS buffs. If we’re not in a very good group and everyone is relying on themselves to buff their own damage and not other people’s, we’re boned.

To me, you sounded elitest as soon as you said ‘Meta’ – the idea that there is only one way to play takes the fun out of gaming. Those two things should never be seperated, unless you are in some sort of gold-farming prison camp.

If Anet intended the game to only be played one way, we wouldnt have class diversity.

You can play the game however you like. But theres always a meta and some people enjoy playing with efficiency in mind.

Basically what Bhawb said is correct. 6/6 is best for organised groups that stack might and other buffs etc. 6/2 is better for other groups, although i personally still recommend 6/6 for its superior solo flexibility/ability where you cant camp in DS reliably.

That said you probably dont see many decent necro pugs because as people have said they play other classes. Only casuals play warrior or guardian though. Ele is where its at.

Spoj The Second.7680:

Ele is where its at.

I definitely don’t have an ele that’s almost 80 for just this reason… cough.

actually i just leveled my necro to 80 for WvW purpose, but since anet is killing they game introducing griding weapon and armor breaking balance to casual, right now im having a blast in spvp necro.

So good luck trying to find necros in pve, most of pve is for:
-warrior
-guardian
-ele
-warrior
-mesmer for portal and veil for arah
-warrios
-guadian
-do i say warrior?

You are missing thief, engi and ranger from that list. Too many warriors and guardians aswell. Not enough eles.

It’s been covered above but Necro’s aren’t worth the slot in a dungeon group. Lack of general utility. What do they bring to the table that someone else doesn’t also bring and better?

I have a necro and I love him. LOVE HIM! But I am forced to play my guard because he’s simply more useful. I’ve been waiting for a long time to make the switch back but every time we hear news on the necro front it doesn’t equate to much.

It’s been said. Ele’s are the new meta. 1-2 are nearly mandatory. 1-2 Warriors —but to be honest I’d rather have an Ele. 1 Guard or 1 Thief, 1 Ranger, 1 Mesmer. I don’t even see Engi’s to be honest but even they are in a better place than Necros.

DnT is hosting a PVE speed dungeon clear coming up soon. While these are speed clears it will still be indicative of what the meta is and what is useful. I will be very surprised if anyone uses a necro.

If Anet intended the game to only be played one way, we wouldnt have class diversity.

Except all classes are not created equal. You can and are free to play anyway you like. But some players are simply not going to enjoy your way of playing.

KOPPER.1458:

I will be very surprised if anyone uses a necro.

We can kill the suspense and say no one who does well will. Its unfortunate, but its reality, and its why most Necros I know of who want to do PvE much have leveled someone else by now. Even my lazy self has gotten around to it.

Wow, I’m surprised that this whiny thread of mine has sparked so much discussion! And yeah, I love necros, but I won’t really use mine outside of WvW for well-bombing. And interestingly enough, ever since making an ele last year, its become the only class I can really play in PvE without feeling like I"m gimping myself somehow, but then again I don’t have a warrior or guardian.

I find most of my characters except necromancer boring to play. I’ve leveled everything except a ranger to 80. I tried dungeons on warrior, guardian, and elementalist, but I don’t find stacking in a corner with the camera completely blocked an appealing form of gameplay. Since I started seeing groups actively saying “No necros” and “Zerker warrior only 3k AP or kick”, I gave up on dungeons entirely instead of adapting to the meta.

I also used axe most of the time with a 6/2/0/0/6 build in dungeons, because being in melee range with a dagger and no constant vigor usually just got me killed or pretty close to it, especially since I tend to jump to revive downed allies faster than I should.

I’m with amiavamp, I just gave up on dungeons myself. The few times I’ve managed to find a group that will run with me I pulled my weight just fine on a boring old face-roll condimancer, and more than once I was the last man standing.

I understand using meta builds for speed runs, but for a casual run I don’t feel like I should have to play the way other people want me to when I know the way I play works just fine. It’s not the fastest but it is effective survivable, which is all I care about in the end.

i totaly agree with amia and siren.

love playing necro and sometimes do conditionmancer, and sometimes
direct damage with axe combined with some conditions.

Now the question of what is the best build has different answers for everyone.
There is no best build probably.

In the open world and with world events, conditionmancer is a lot of fun to play
with all of the trash running around there.

I imagine this could be used in some dungeons with lots of trash to.
And when there is single targe damage needed, i think axe works just fine.

I play the way i like, and when i wanne do a dungeon i go with friends.
They dont care what i play and i dont care what they play, as long as we have a fun time.
And we allways have 8-)

innocens.1582:

There is no best build probably.

No, there is literally an objectively best build for PvE. It depends on the content, but there is a best.

Now, if you enjoy something else and want to play something else for fun, and you can find a way to make it work without ruining other people’s enjoyment, then by all means don’t let us rain on your parade.

I dungeon run with a 6/6/0/2/0 condition build scepter/staff. Lets me keep up perma regen, and high condition damage while also keeping good survivalbility through the heal through condition trait. I don’t know if it is the max dps build, but I have never gone down in a dungeon and I top out at 3k bleeds plus poison, torment, almost perma weakness, 50% uptime on chill, and 1k fears with ~25% uptime. It’s the build i’ve found provides the best mix of control, damage and sustain.

It’s almost like people will play what is fun despite what you want them to do….huh.

Also, if your ability to finish a dungeon is hampered by someone else’s build decisions then you may need to put your choices under the microscope as well.

it might sound weird to some players that others play this game for fun and
not for profit.
personaly i think that what games are for, relax and have some fun.

and dont worry i wont join your goup.

Quells.2498:

It’s almost like people will play what is fun despite what you want them to do….huh.

Also, if your ability to finish a dungeon is hampered by someone else’s build decisions then you may need to put your choices under the microscope as well.

My ability to finish a dungeon is hampered by incompetent players and builds. I’m not saying that necromancers are the sole problem, as I see plenty of worse players on other classes that do the same awful stuff that impedes me. Taking my conjured lightning hammer on purpose during some fights after I repeatedly explain to them why doing that gimps my build’s DPS completely. In those cases necros did it and complained that it wasnt a condition damage weapon. But plenty of other incompetent pugs of other classes do it all the time. I even started slotting icebow over signet of fire so I have at least something to do massive damage with if my hammer gets stolen, so the problem isn’t that bad anymore I do admit.

Anyway I’m totally fine with necromancers despite their glaring problems in doing anything besides well bombing in WvW. Its just that when my dungeon run posts on lfg say “zerker 80 meta” (not even speedrun or experienced), I expect people to run zerker or mostly zerker gear (not rabid or pvt or knights or whatever) and I expect people regardless to communicate, read and listen in the chat. If they don’t know how to do a certain part of a path, I’m fine as long as they mention so we can explain or know to carry.

tl dr: I’m fine with necros that fit in with my LFG post descriptions that can listen and communicate.

I can understand the frustration especially if you’re advertising that kind of party but you have to be reasonable and remember that you ultimately can’t control everyone and as you’ve seen no matter how much you complain about it they will never stop.

Yeah that I can agree with. Ever since I started slotting the ice bow along with hammer, I’ve been having less trouble since I can fall back on that, which is a lot less stressful.

Atm I’m only really doing dungeons for money, so they’re becoming really unfun when I can’t burst everything down in seconds by abusing ele conjures with tons of might and fury..

Anyway thanks for your comments though, I appreciate them