WTB vigor.
1. Lack of vigor – I agree. There should at least be a trait somewhere for it, or adding it to an existing skill (I’m thinking Spectral Wall or Locust Swarm)
Off topic:
2. Wimpy axe autoattack – Not a power user, so I can’t say from experience. General consensus is that axe #1 is used with focus #4 to set up axe #2, not to be used as a primary weapon auto-attack.
3. Cleave – I used to think the lack of cleave was really impossible to understand, but I guess the blessing in disguise is that we’re less susceptible to retaliation oriented builds, such as the “Immortal Mesmer” build (unless you’re using Wells and hitting everything in sight).
80 Necromancer, 80 Warrior
SoR
SoR
Necro’s biggest weakness is lack of easy access to utility boons. Vigor, Stability etc. I don’t consider our elites acceptable options for stablity. Even if they add vigor to bone minion explosions I’d be happy.
Aiyli 80 Necro, Aista & Criselli 80 Mesmers
Aîsta & Çriselli 80 engies, Zeira Blackstar 80 Grd Meloryn 80 Ran, Vexri Crisellista 80 War
Server: Kaineng
Aîsta & Çriselli 80 engies, Zeira Blackstar 80 Grd Meloryn 80 Ran, Vexri Crisellista 80 War
Server: Kaineng
The Devs couldn’t seem to make up their mind regarding Death Shroud. We have limited or zero access to many boons because we are supposed to be using debuffs to level the playing field and using Death Shroud as a substitute for things like Vigor, Aegis, and Invuln. That’s a great idea, in theory. Unfortunately, replenishing Life Force in a fight is a royal pain. If I look at how much endurance Vigor adds to an average fight on most characters, which is passive most of the time, and compare it to the amount of Life Force I’m able to generate in the same fight it’s no contest at all.
I dig the idea of using debuffs to negate the advantage other professions gain from most boons. I dig the idea of using Life Force as a replacement for many boons we don’t get. I even dig the idea of Life Force being a resource we have to manage and build as a fight goes on, which makes us stronger the longer the fight is (kind of a reverse Adrenaline).
I don’t dig the fact that it doesn’t really work very well. The profession loses quite a bit in exchange for DS, and yet using it is such a hassle because not enough things fill it back up. The class needs a couple of largely passive ways to generate LF inside a fight, because in PvE things die constantly but in PvP it’s a totally different story and we’re generally behind the damage/effective healing curve from the start. The only real option we have is to dedicate an irritating amount of traits to the task, for a minimal payoff.
DS is a poor substitute for more access to utility boons, in part due to the inability of some weapon sets to generate it, and in part due to the auto-degen of LF while in shroud.
Make a master tier trait to remove the degen, remove the adept tier trait to reduce the degen and put in something useful.
On top of this it sure would be nice to increase the projectile speed and range of Shroud 2 so that it will actually hit a skilled player on occasion and give the profession a gap closer that it so badly needs, and shorten the cast on #1. Right now it takes a lot of effort to make shroud useful for anything but soaking damage and dropping a fear every so often. Some changes like this would make it far more useful.
If they want necro to face-tank all of the damage thrown at them and try to mitigate with debuffs, then they need to make shroud better at soaking damage than what it currently is.
DS is a poor substitute for more access to utility boons, in part due to the inability of some weapon sets to generate it, and in part due to the auto-degen of LF while in shroud.
Make a master tier trait to remove the degen, remove the adept tier trait to reduce the degen and put in something useful.
On top of this it sure would be nice to increase the projectile speed and range of Shroud 2 so that it will actually hit a skilled player on occasion and give the profession a gap closer that it so badly needs, and shorten the cast on #1. Right now it takes a lot of effort to make shroud useful for anything but soaking damage and dropping a fear every so often. Some changes like this would make it far more useful.
If they want necro to face-tank all of the damage thrown at them and try to mitigate with debuffs, then they need to make shroud better at soaking damage than what it currently is.
I think we’re currently amazing at soaking damage, or at least we can be built to be amazing at it. My biggest gripe is that rather than get stronger in long fights we tend to get weaker because DS regen is confined to single target skills or channeled skills that are easily interrupted, dodged, or just plain slow.
I keep spending more and more time underwater because even though I don’t have access to many of the best utility skills, the weapon skills work so well that playing the class is an absolute pleasure. Trident has a PBAoE that grants Life Force per unit hit. Spear has a LF generator in an auto attack that’s also PBAoE. Add to that all the extra mobility, fields that aren’t ground targets, gap closers, and control and it’s hard to believe it’s the same profession!
We should have a trait that grants vigor when entering Death Shroud, this is the reason I can’t solo Lupicus with my Necro. Also 1 utility with stability too much to ask?
Necromancer Lupicus Solo – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWkSkhmWiDU
Retired Until Expansion or Meaningful Content is Released.
Retired Until Expansion or Meaningful Content is Released.
I think we’re currently amazing at soaking damage, or at least we can be built to be amazing at it.
Add to that all the extra mobility, fields that aren’t ground targets, gap closers, and control and it’s hard to believe it’s the same profession!
No doubt Necro can be built to soak damage better than any other class, but my argument is that all that soaking ability does not equate to having access to perma vigor, stability and invulnerability.
Underwater necro is very fun and imaginative. Funny thing is that we are one of the more mobile classes underwater and can’t move on land. Just too bad the UW combat is completely broken for sPvP.
My biggest gripe with DS is, its a ‘class defining ability’, that’s massively spec dependent. I originally ran power builds and I used to think, ’ I don’t get all this moaning about DS its awesome to soak damage and deal ranged damage. The I tried running a hybrid build, or Condition build , my access to LF generation is terrible in a 1v1 fight. Its almost impossible to use it for soaking any damage, as I need what little LF I can generate to cast doom.
This is why it doesn’t function properly as a replacement for access to stability and vigor. Its like when people say ‘necro don’t need decent uptime to protection, they have DS’ . DS can only be used as a replacement for Protection, if you spec deeply into it.
My biggest gripe with DS is, its a ‘class defining ability’, that’s massively spec dependent. I originally ran power builds and I used to think, ’ I don’t get all this moaning about DS its awesome to soak damage and deal ranged damage. The I tried running a hybrid build, or Condition build , my access to LF generation is terrible in a 1v1 fight. Its almost impossible to use it for soaking any damage, as I need what little LF I can generate to cast doom.
This is why it doesn’t function properly as a replacement for access to stability and vigor. Its like when people say ‘necro don’t need decent uptime to protection, they have DS’ . DS can only be used as a replacement for Protection, if you spec deeply into it.
They just need to get LF generation for DS closer to mainhand dagger and staff with marks trait.
Our stun breakers also need to drop in cooldown significantly.
Make Dark Pact a targeted area teleport with chill and bleeding. The slow projectile is so easy to dodge.
Man Just yesterday I was looking for a set of rune to give me vigor.
There two choice :
Rune of bealfire, but it’s only a 5% proc on hit, and you gotta rune dungeon. And it also have bad stats sinergy (burning duration).
Rune of adventurer, 50% endurance on heal. Our heal are on a long cooldown, so I don’t think it’s worth it. I use it on my engin each 10 sec it’s a lot better!
Rotthen (Necro) / Zhyx (Engineer) /Inglorious Beasterd (Ranger)
Server : Anvil Rock (Since Release!) [SOLO]
Server : Anvil Rock (Since Release!) [SOLO]
Our stun breakers also need to drop in cooldown significantly.
Make Dark Pact a targeted area teleport with chill and bleeding. The slow projectile is so easy to dodge.
Our stun breaks are pathetic. None of them are really worth a utility slot, but then you have no stun breaks. Makes it pretty tricky.
Adding AoE to Dark Path (I think this is what you meant rather than dagger #3) might be a bit over the top, but making the projectile faster, or making it a hit scan/instant hit like steal would be ok. Winner.
Man Just yesterday I was looking for a set of rune to give me vigor.
There two choice :
Rune of bealfire, but it’s only a 5% proc on hit, and you gotta rune dungeon. And it also have bad stats sinergy (burning duration).
Rune of adventurer, 50% endurance on heal. Our heal are on a long cooldown, so I don’t think it’s worth it. I use it on my engin each 10 sec it’s a lot better!
Sigil of Energy. You lose a lot by giving up sigils for this (particularly if one of your weps is a staff) but an extra dodge every 9s isn’t too shabby.
If you really need vigor in addition to rune of the adventurer (that works with all necro builds) and sigil of energy, BiP+WoP give you vigor.
When life gives you lemon, ask if its from a anime or manga.
(edited by Andele.1306)
BiP+WoP give you vigor.
Fair point well made and easily overlooked.
Other professions get perma vigor. Necro’s can get a few seconds of vigor every 60s by burning 2 utility CDs, but yes. There is that source of vigor too.
I think we’re currently amazing at soaking damage, or at least we can be built to be amazing at it. My biggest gripe is that rather than get stronger in long fights we tend to get weaker because DS regen is confined to single target skills or channeled skills that are easily interrupted, dodged, or just plain slow.
Condition builds are seriously hindered by life force gen. Scepter 3 is a 10 sec cool down based off of total corruptions on the target. After that all you have is staff 1 which is utterly useless in a condition build. They need to make scepter 1 give 1% life force on its third attack. This would go a long way.
BiP+WoP give you vigor.
Fair point well made and easily overlooked.
Other professions get perma vigor. Necro’s can get a few seconds of vigor every 60s by burning 2 utility CDs, but yes. There is that source of vigor too.
Not a fair representation. Whenever a bleed or I think a chill is cleansed off via Well of Power, it’s converted to around 10 seconds of Vigour regardless of the condition stack’s duration or magnitude.
So you can just as easily stand in, say, Caltrops or a Freezing Field, drop your well, and build up enough vigour to last you the rest of the fight. Won’t work against every class, but it’s still pretty solid. I figure Necromancers would be a bit overpowered with vigour available to the extent it is on Guardians/Rangers/Elementalists/Mesmers.
You forgot thiefs bleed/caltrops dodge spec that lets you dodge every … hmm 4 seconds?
Hmm that leaves only… Oh my…
BiP+WoP give you vigor.
Fair point well made and easily overlooked.
Other professions get perma vigor. Necro’s can get a few seconds of vigor every 60s by burning 2 utility CDs, but yes. There is that source of vigor too.
Not a fair representation. Whenever a bleed or I think a chill is cleansed off via Well of Power, it’s converted to around 10 seconds of Vigour regardless of the condition stack’s duration or magnitude.
So you can just as easily stand in, say, Caltrops or a Freezing Field, drop your well, and build up enough vigour to last you the rest of the fight. Won’t work against every class, but it’s still pretty solid. I figure Necromancers would be a bit overpowered with vigour available to the extent it is on Guardians/Rangers/Elementalists/Mesmers.
Why? Guardians and rangers and eles are way more bunker-able than the necro ever will, even if he gets vigor.
Those classes listed are great at bunkering solely because of their ability to stack boons. If you drop their boons, and properly time condition stacking, they can drop. Necromancer on the other hand relies on Death Shroud to mitigate big hits and a lot of small heals plus abundant condition removal/flipping to heal up the smaller stuff. It is significantly harder to Necro bunker than it is the others, which means few people will do it, it doesn’t actually mean its worse.
Overall i have said this time and time again, perma stability and retaliation (while in DS), ok/maybe, but i dont think necros will ever get a on demand vigor without having to turn and combo with WoP, nor that we actually need it when we get our turn on the full rebalance.
When life gives you lemon, ask if its from a anime or manga.
The Necro’s problem is, and always will be, a lack of active defense. No blocking skills, no evading skills, no reflecting skills, very light on hard control, mediocre on soft control, no vigor, very little stability, and bad stun breakers. Death Shroud doesn’t stop attacks insomuch as it puts those attacks into a different HP bar that starts out empty and slowly fills depending on what skills you use and how many kills you get.
Unfortunately, the devs have stated that they want it like this. So, the necromancer’s selling point will forever be “this class is meant to take 100B to the face”.
I don’t have opinions. I only have facts I can’t adequately prove.
The Necro’s problem is, and always will be, a lack of active defense. No blocking skills, no evading skills, no reflecting skills, very light on hard control, mediocre on soft control, no vigor, very little stability, and bad stun breakers. Death Shroud doesn’t stop attacks insomuch as it puts those attacks into a different HP bar that starts out empty and slowly fills depending on what skills you use and how many kills you get.
Unfortunately, the devs have stated that they want it like this. So, the necromancer’s selling point will forever be “this class is meant to take 100B to the face”.
Well said.
Necromancer Lupicus Solo – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWkSkhmWiDU
Retired Until Expansion or Meaningful Content is Released.
Retired Until Expansion or Meaningful Content is Released.
The Necro’s problem is, and always will be, a lack of active defense. No blocking skills, no evading skills, no reflecting skills, very light on hard control, mediocre on soft control, no vigor, very little stability, and bad stun breakers. Death Shroud doesn’t stop attacks insomuch as it puts those attacks into a different HP bar that starts out empty and slowly fills depending on what skills you use and how many kills you get.
Unfortunately, the devs have stated that they want it like this. So, the necromancer’s selling point will forever be “this class is meant to take 100B to the face”.
They really stated that after game release? I understand it was original style of necro but thought they might realise their mistake.
Necromancer really needs some active defense, death shroud is great protection but its not reliable survibility.
Yes they did. Among other absurd statements that were as absurd or outwards incorrect. After beta they said necros were most in need of love. That simply resulted in scepter nerf. No love attached. Some other things were thrown out seemingly by people who never even saw a necro in their entire life gw2 or otherwise.
Yes they did. Among other absurd statements that were as absurd or outwards incorrect. After beta they said necros were most in need of love. That simply resulted in scepter nerf. No love attached. Some other things were thrown out seemingly by people who never even saw a necro in their entire life gw2 or otherwise.
I think one problem is that after release the class was riddled with bugs, and it’s only very recently that most of the bugs have gotten fixed. Since you can’t really balance a class that’s full of bugs they’re going to have to watch it to see what needs rebalancing.
Then they’ll probably nerf Conditionmancer (because everyone uses it).
The Necro’s problem is, and always will be, a lack of active defense. No blocking skills, no evading skills, no reflecting skills, very light on hard control, mediocre on soft control, no vigor, very little stability, and bad stun breakers. Death Shroud doesn’t stop attacks insomuch as it puts those attacks into a different HP bar that starts out empty and slowly fills depending on what skills you use and how many kills you get.
Unfortunately, the devs have stated that they want it like this. So, the necromancer’s selling point will forever be “this class is meant to take 100B to the face”.
Necros didnt even have active defense before, we had passive (perma retal and stability via DS, Lich dropping a phylactery where your body/cast time was and unable to be damaged till it was destroyed and you lost all hp, being pretty close to sticking in DS for a entire fight, etc), sadly since other classes werent that polished nor explored (like i said in BWE3 that DD ele is too strong, but since noone bothered to really explore into combos they did it was overlooked), necros having a easy time on the defensive side was “OP”, i still have hope that in the “rework” line A-net is doing that we will get that power back since the classes are mostly explored and most weaknesses are known (for necros being kinda a all in playstyle/weak escape power, location based combat and longish cast times and/or cooldowns on stronger abilites compared to most).
When life gives you lemon, ask if its from a anime or manga.
Those classes listed are great at bunkering solely because of their ability to stack boons. If you drop their boons, and properly time condition stacking, they can drop. Necromancer on the other hand relies on Death Shroud to mitigate big hits and a lot of small heals plus abundant condition removal/flipping to heal up the smaller stuff. It is significantly harder to Necro bunker than it is the others, which means few people will do it, it doesn’t actually mean its worse.
They don’t bunker solely because of boons. It’s the many evades, the big and constant heals they can put out ( a ranger with healing spring can blast twice plus the healing he already did, plus perma regen, plus 3 built in weapon dodges, plus vigor on heal, plus 50% endurance regen increase from trait). The evasions, the several blinds and blocks ( A guardian gets 1 block from aegis, 1 block from activating virtue, 1 more aegis at 50% health, their heal blocks, their elite makes them immune for 3 seconds and resets their aegis and heal virtue plus 1 block from mace and 3 more blocks from focus, with a blind on greatsword and a blind on focus.
Deathshroud meanwhile drops your damage output while in it, life blast is kitten easy to dodge, and a necro who gets bursted out of death shroud has little recovery outside regen from mark and his own small heal. The necro has close to no recovery options. Damage absorption =/= recovery. Recovery means the ability to reset your health bar under pressure, which the necro cannot do. He will slowly get worn down.
Most importantly of all, necro damage is not good outside dagger #1 spam. And their burst doesn’t exist unlike a warrior.
(edited by Zenith.7301)
I think having more access to blind (specifically the pulsing kind) makes more sense since it’s the poor mans version of aegis and is a condition. Our current access to blind is pretty limited if you also factor in our lack of utility boons. DS is a terrible substitute for boons like aegis and vigor, but I’d still like to see it being worked around in a way that makes sense to necromancy.
Laviere – Hybrid Wellomancer
Makonne – Hybrid Regen Ranger
Makonne – Hybrid Regen Ranger
Our current access to blind is pretty limited if you also factor in our lack of utility boons.
You… i mean… just… WHAT???
Plague + WoD with chilling darkness > all blinds a thief can ever apply with all weapons and entire kit.
When life gives you lemon, ask if its from a anime or manga.
Our current access to blind is pretty limited if you also factor in our lack of utility boons.
You… i mean… just… WHAT???
Plague + WoD with chilling darkness > all blinds a thief can ever apply with all weapons and entire kit.
You do realize that Plague turns your offense into garbage —- you’re just stalling your death— and WoD costs one utility slot, has a way larger cd than thief/ele blinds, and is ground limited and requires a trait to land on ranged targets?
Our current access to blind is pretty limited if you also factor in our lack of utility boons.
You… i mean… just… WHAT???
Plague + WoD with chilling darkness > all blinds a thief can ever apply with all weapons and entire kit.You do realize that Plague turns your offense into garbage —- you’re just stalling your death— and WoD costs one utility slot, has a way larger cd than thief/ele blinds, and is ground limited and requires a trait to land on ranged targets?
kitten what ya talking about, both makes 5 enemies useless and plague gives you so much armor that a zerker 100b deals like 500 damage if it manages to hit, also why the hell do you need a trait to land it if you have a pretty good gap closer on your profession mechanic. Sure a theif can spam blinds, but they cost him way more damage via the initiative he has to waste to proc it than taking WoD and Plague (only comparison can be blind on stealth and smoke screen, both utilites you do not use in any of the offensive theif builds, so on not a single one that matters).
When life gives you lemon, ask if its from a anime or manga.
Our current access to blind is pretty limited if you also factor in our lack of utility boons.
You… i mean… just… WHAT???
Plague + WoD with chilling darkness > all blinds a thief can ever apply with all weapons and entire kit.You do realize that Plague turns your offense into garbage —- you’re just stalling your death— and WoD costs one utility slot, has a way larger cd than thief/ele blinds, and is ground limited and requires a trait to land on ranged targets?
kitten what ya talking about, both makes 5 enemies useless and plague gives you so much armor that a zerker 100b deals like 500 damage if it manages to hit, also why the hell do you need a trait to land it if you have a pretty good gap closer on your profession mechanic. Sure a theif can spam blinds, but they cost him way more damage via the initiative he has to waste to proc it than taking WoD and Plague (only comparison can be blind on stealth and smoke screen, both utilites you do not use in any of the offensive theif builds, so on not a single one that matters).
Yeah, because people don’t dodge Dark Path ever kittenolol
Plague only makes idiots that don’t move out useless. Anyone with speed/teleports can stay out of plague range, and plague armor is not increased — you’ll have more health but will be whittled down anyways since you’re putting out no pressure to shut someone down.
Pistol offhand is amazing for chain blinding melee. Dagger/dagger thieves are not the only builds that exist. In fact, dagger/dagger thieves are the easiest by far to counter.
Yeah, because people don’t dodge Dark Path ever kittenolol
Plague only makes idiots that don’t move out useless. Anyone with speed/teleports can stay out of plague range, and plague armor is not increased — you’ll have more health but will be whittled down anyways since you’re putting out no pressure to shut someone down.
Pistol offhand is amazing for chain blinding melee. Dagger/dagger thieves are not the only builds that exist. In fact, dagger/dagger thieves are the easiest by far to counter.
People rarely dodge out of dark path because it has the same animation as Necrotic grasp but is twice as fast.
2748 toughness, thats how much you get from plague for free so please leave you moronic troll because if you dont know the basics of your class you dont deserve to event talk about it.
D/P thief has 4 blinds, yes, but only 1 is actually worth the initiative (i know my alt is a thief with D/P and Shortbow using the signet venom burst).
When life gives you lemon, ask if its from a anime or manga.
3. Cleave – I used to think the lack of cleave was really impossible to understand, but I guess the blessing in disguise is that we’re less susceptible to retaliation oriented builds, such as the “Immortal Mesmer” build (unless you’re using Wells and hitting everything in sight).
The reason we don’t have a cleave is we have more access to multi-target abilities than any other class in the game. Someone once counted exactly how many aoe abilities we have, and had close to or over 40 different individual aoe or multi-target abilites. The lack of a cleave is necessary.