Guild Wars 2

I want to like them.

I think they have a lot of potential and I like the interaction with Rune of the Chronomancer.

I’ve been messing around with this in spvp (unselected traits/util optional) and it’s been pretty fun. Frustrating at times. But fun.

So I’m going to try to start a discussion on Wells. What do you like? What would you change? What builds do you use them in? And everyone’s favorite, design-an-elite-well (that’s-probably-broken™).

“Alot of potential”?

Well necros have been meta and required backliners in WvW for over 4 years. Some servers run so many that they cover a 20×20 meter field in circles.

I agree that Well of Suffering and Well of Corruption are in a good spot. The other three not so much. And I play mostly spvp so I don’t have experience in WvW meta.

They are Necros most used utility (suffering and corruption) because they are the highest dps utilities we have. It’s just a shame Darkness, Power and Blood aren’t of the same stock.

Well of Corruption + Well of Suffering are bread & butter for necros in WvW. Rune of Chronomancer works well with power reaper builds that drop double wells then leap in for cleaves. Unfortunately this does not translate well in sPvP.

Part of the reasons is that power reapers don’t do well in pvp, other part of the reasons is that wells can be avoided or invulned through. And if you take double wells, once they’re dropped you’re sitting ducks. You either kill someone with them or you’ll die soon after. Plus necros don’t bunker on point, there are better classes to do that with. You are best joining team fights and pushing offense because that’s our niche right now.

I also agree with above that Darkness, Power, and Blood aren’t good enough to take. So you only have 2 wells you would really use.

As for designing a well, I think we’re due for an elite well option.

gavyne.6847:

Well of Corruption + Well of Suffering are bread & butter for necros in WvW. Rune of Chronomancer works well with power reaper builds that drop double wells then leap in for cleaves. Unfortunately this does not translate well in sPvP.

Part of the reasons is that power reapers don’t do well in pvp, other part of the reasons is that wells can be avoided or invulned through. And if you take double wells, once they’re dropped you’re sitting ducks. You either kill someone with them or you’ll die soon after. Plus necros don’t bunker on point, there are better classes to do that with. You are best joining team fights and pushing offense because that’s our niche right now.

I also agree with above that Darkness, Power, and Blood aren’t good enough to take. So you only have 2 wells you would really use.

As for designing a well, I think we’re due for an elite well option.

Tell me, because I haven’t PvP’d in a while, is an offensive, group-fight power shout reaper still at least semi viable?

Vydahr.4285:

Tell me, because I haven’t PvP’d in a while, is an offensive, group-fight power shout reaper still at least semi viable?

Define viable? Sure, you can play a power shout reaper in pvp. But would you contribute as much as a condi reaper? Likely not. You see a power reaper every now and then, but they are fairly easy trained down. They also rage pretty hard when they get owned by fellow condi reapers 1v1.

Thing about power reapers is that the nature of the build requires you to be in middle of the fights, that’s also how shouts function. You have to be in people’s faces. Well you know how people already focus target necros, to jump head first into the fight is like asking to have a perm big red arrow on your head going “Kill me first”. You’ll be running through fields and traps while chasing people, and kind of kill yourself in doing so. Other classes with active defense can do this, we can’t. A warrior for an example, fairly meta these days, have plenty of blocks, resistance, and endure pain when they’re under heat. Not to mention Adrenal Health. We don’t have any of that.

Condi reapers at least can contribute from the perimeter and kite/juke while stacking condi’s. A power reaper kiting means a power reaper not doing anything for their team.

Is it viable? Yes. Is it optimal? No. Would you get kited to death by other classes? Yes, especially on the new Capricorn map where it’s wide open. It may seem like I’m advocating for condi but I’m not, I prefer power gameplay. But Anet has made pvp the way it is, and condi builds are our best optimal option right now. This is also why I hated the Rise nerf, it nerfed both power and condi builds while we received no additional defense in return.

Ashur.6403:

I agree that Well of Suffering and Well of Corruption are in a good spot. The other three not so much.

gavyne.6847:

I also agree with above that Darkness, Power, and Blood aren’t good enough to take. So you only have 2 wells you would really use.

Lahmia.2193:

They are Necros most used utility (suffering and corruption) because they are the highest dps utilities we have. It’s just a shame Darkness, Power and Blood aren’t of the same stock.

What?
Ok, here’s how it really is:

Well of Suffering is a decent PvE pick and a standard dps choice for WvW zerging. But it’s a wasted utility slot in PvP.

Well of Corruption is an epic skill for both WvW and PvP, but it’s definitely not among the highest dps utilities, so there’s no reason to use it in PvE unless you want to corrupt a lot of boons like in lvl 41-50 fractals.

Well of Power is arguably the best skill necros have, especially when traited.
Yes, I’m serious.

Well of Blood and Darkness are worse than other skills you could take instead, regardless of game mode or situation, which means they suck.

gavyne.6847:

And if you take double wells, once they’re dropped you’re sitting ducks. You either kill someone with them or you’ll die soon after.

l2well

flow.6043:

What?
Ok, here’s how it really is:

Funny, you didn’t disagree with anybody other than stating you like well of power… So yes, tell us how you really feel, lol.

Please do show us how a 40s cd well of power is clutch for us in pvp.

Clearly you misunderstood, not surprising considering you don’t even realize the awesomeness of Well of Power.
It doesn’t matter what I feel or what I like. WoP is boss, that is a fact.
And that obviously needed to be said when everyone else here dismissed it as being in the same trash category as WoD and WoB.

gavyne.6847:

Please do show us how a 40s cd well of power is clutch for us in pvp.

Again, l2well.

Functionally I can see well of power working, but the question is what utilities are you sacrificing for it? It may very well come down to personal preference and if you play with a team, how your team plays. I’ll give you that.

But what utilities do you take with it? Are you taking well of power instead of plague signet or suffer for condi transfer/removal? The norm for us in pvp is a reaper would take either plague signet or suffer for condi transfer, then take either rise or spec armor for soaking, and a 3rd optional slot for what you need/like better depending on who you’re facing.

So just out of curiosity, what utilities are you taking?

Personally, I use WoP, WoC and Corrupt Boon.
Now, although I’d caution anyone not to take this specific setup out of the context of the build I use them with, imo those two well are a viable pick in almost any build, especially WoP.

I agree with flow that well of power is a good utility skill but i dont think there is currently a build that really can use it well.

I wish they would remove well of darkness and give us a good support well instead.

And for well of blood it heals for less then the mesmer well of eternity without healingpower (with healingpower this changes since it has better scaling), has a longer casttime, a longer cooldown and doesnt remove conditions (unless you use the light field but woe is also a light field so mehh) and woe has a shorter duration. So i would argue well of blood definitely needs a buff in numbers.

I like well of power, but find it situationally useful. What would be interesting is if the Reaper’s Protection trait dropped a well of power instead of fear. Would finally give necros a break from the cc hate.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Reaper's_Protection

Muchacho.2390:

I agree with flow that well of power is a good utility skill but i dont think there is currently a build that really can use it well.

I wish they would remove well of darkness and give us a good support well instead.

And for well of blood it heals for less then the mesmer well of eternity without healingpower (with healingpower this changes since it has better scaling), has a longer casttime, a longer cooldown and doesnt remove conditions (unless you use the light field but woe is also a light field so mehh) and woe has a shorter duration. So i would argue well of blood definitely needs a buff in numbers.

It’s sad to think that Well of Darkness was actually a viable option in WvW with Chilling Darkness, before it had an ICD. Then they gave it an ICD and back to the grave it went.

Lahmia.2193:

Muchacho.2390:

I agree with flow that well of power is a good utility skill but i dont think there is currently a build that really can use it well.

I wish they would remove well of darkness and give us a good support well instead.

And for well of blood it heals for less then the mesmer well of eternity without healingpower (with healingpower this changes since it has better scaling), has a longer casttime, a longer cooldown and doesnt remove conditions (unless you use the light field but woe is also a light field so mehh) and woe has a shorter duration. So i would argue well of blood definitely needs a buff in numbers.

It’s sad to think that Well of Darkness was actually a viable option in WvW with Chilling Darkness, before it had an ICD. Then they gave it an ICD and back to the grave it went.

anet used grave digger on well of darkness

I have to go with The Flow on this. Wells are far better in WvW than shouts.

WoP – anti-condi gives free buffs
WoD – Mrs Frustrations
WoS – gigantic speed bump

The other two are siege support

the 40% uptime quickness mancer ive been playing uses wells and its quite entertaining.

Dawdler.8521:

“Alot of potential”?

Well necros have been meta and required backliners in WvW for over 4 years. Some servers run so many that they cover a 20×20 meter field in circles.

Necros run wells because it’s the only utility skills they have that isn’t absolute dogkitten.

An elementalist packs more punch with mere weaponskills with lower cooldowns than wells.

They bring a single well for boon strip, which mesmers can also do with null field.

Wells of darkness, blood, and power are pretty garbage with their immense cooldowns.

I used them a lot more pre HoT, but can’t force myself using them now. Maybe in some open PvE situations?!
Since HoT I just can’t compare them to Mesmers and get disappointed every time. Mesmers wells are so much better… Imagine if only necro got the elite mesmer well paired with WoS and WoC.

mazut.4296:

I used them a lot more pre HoT, but can’t force myself using them now. Maybe in some open PvE situations?!
Since HoT I just can’t compare them to Mesmers and get disappointed every time. Mesmers wells are so much better… Imagine if only necro got the elite mesmer well paired with WoS and WoC.

Mesmer wells don’t do remotely the same damage necro wells do, and the effects of a mesmer well are much easier to dodge.

Zenith.7301:

Wells of darkness, blood, and power are pretty garbage with their immense cooldowns.

Another one who’s probably never even used Well of Power…
Seriously, WoP is easily one of the best skill we have.
Immense cooldown? Look at our other stun breaks, 40 sec isn’t long at all especially when you trait it to be 32 sec. Spec Armor was only now buffed to have the same cd, and before the signets rework last year WoP actually had the second lowest cooldown next to Flesh Wurm.

For pvp only well of corruption is decent on nodes but the cooldown is rather high.
For wvw i find wells mediocre these days, only thing they have got going is that they’re unblockable. Blood and darkness should never be taken. Power well is actually useful but i don’t take it if i don’t go blood magic. Suffering has laughable damage on melee train due to all the damage reduction. a full glass reaper hits 1 – 1.5k crits on average. 2.5k on downed pve elementalists which is still bad, considering rev hammer 1 hits 3k and hammer 2 10k on those guys. Corruption well is amazing in zergs so that never leaves my bar.

WoB requires stacking, which is very rare in WvW unless players are stacked at immobile objects like in a siege. WoS also helps destroy objects and can assist in area denial. Neither are very compelling when mobile because the healing or damage is metered out in pulses.

The other three wells have the same issue but they focus on giving your team boon and condition advantages. It is the same job as using Epidemic: Do not expect to do much damage when managing boons and conditions is your primary task.

I love Wells. My favorite skills since I started. Use them everywhere. My raid build used 3, changing out Well of Power for something else I need, whether boon strip or might share, or whatever else.

If anything I’d want to increase duration on them by 1 or 2 seconds, but otherwise they’re great

Warcry.1596:

I love Wells. My favorite skills since I started. Use them everywhere. My raid build used 3, changing out Well of Power for something else I need, whether boon strip or might share, or whatever else.

If anything I’d want to increase duration on them by 1 or 2 seconds, but otherwise they’re great

If they did change them (not that I want them to) a decrease in time and increase in effect would be better. Something along the lines of:
Reduce duration to 3 seconds.
Double damage per tick.
Double effects like 2 boons corrupted/2 conditions converted for Corruption and Power respectively.
Give a damage co-efficiant to Darkness (maybe half that of Corruption). This would mean it could also trigger Vampiric and Vampiric Aura.
Double the life stealing from Vampiric Wells.

This would mean more burst for the damaging wells and more effectiveness for the other wells.

Lahmia.2193:

Give a damage co-efficiant to Darkness (maybe half that of Corruption). This would mean it could also trigger Vampiric and Vampiric Aura.

It already does.

flow.6043:

Lahmia.2193:

Give a damage co-efficiant to Darkness (maybe half that of Corruption). This would mean it could also trigger Vampiric and Vampiric Aura.

It already does.

It triggers Vampiric Rituals and that’s it. It did trigger all 3 when they redid the traitlines but that was soon fixed.

I would like to see Chilling Darkness reverted to when it was stronger now that duration from other chills is nerfed and Elite specializations have that power-creap going.

Anchoku.8142:

I would like to see Chilling Darkness reverted to when it was stronger now that duration from other chills is nerfed and Elite specializations have that power-creap going.

And it would make Well of Darkness somewhat viable again.

There are a few things that just irk me about wells:

Well of Power – does not do well with condi or hybrid builds, it lacks synergy, I suppose its still OK if traited for wells in PVP and WVW, but otherwise it seriously sucks on non power builds. In addition, its CD is too long for what it does. I play all classes in this game and even when traited this well underperforms vastly when compared to skills I have available on my other toons. The fact that you can cast and use it a bit on others via its range, is what makes this well OK, but just OK, not great.

Well of Darkness – just utter crap. we all know it, we all gave it a shot several times over, it just sucks. So many other things we can use in its place.

Well of Suffering – great well for PVE and general power builds, but again, lacks synergy with non power builds to the point of almost uselessness. As a DPS well, if they made the damage for it scale of off either power or condi (whichever is higher) then it would see much more use and be much more flexible. Currently while on condi builds we are way better running epidemic or even the stupid cloud in place of this well or just go utility and pick a spectral skill.

Well of corruption is good for its offensive utility, better in condi builds obviously, but even then with the current boonshare meta and resistance + runes of durability + cleanse spam it seriously lacks the punch it used to have. You have to have several necros nowadays focus casting it on same targets for it to become fully effective. So things are getting kinda stupid silly, though I think that is more of a problem with general game balance not this particular well itself.

The biggest thing that irks me about wells though, is the lack of an Elite Well. We should have one. We have elite corruption, minion, spectral skill and shout. But where is the well ?

Tongku.5326:

The biggest thing that irks me about wells though, is the lack of an Elite Well. We should have one. We have elite corruption, minion, spectral skill and shout. But where is the well ?

Please don’t talke about that, the act of creating the elite for spectral and corruption was by nerfing 2 good skills because you could trait for them (which nobody does), while it was really not necessairy.

Lahmia.2193:

flow.6043:

Lahmia.2193:

Give a damage co-efficiant to Darkness (maybe half that of Corruption). This would mean it could also trigger Vampiric and Vampiric Aura.

It already does.

It triggers Vampiric Rituals and that’s it. It did trigger all 3 when they redid the traitlines but that was soon fixed.

You’re right, I hadn’t noticed this was changed.

Tongku.5326:

Well of Power – does not do well with condi or hybrid builds, it lacks synergy, I suppose its still OK if traited for wells in PVP and WVW, but otherwise it seriously sucks on non power builds.

It’s a purely defensive skill. Why would there be different synergy with different offensive stats?

Tim.6450:

Tongku.5326:

The biggest thing that irks me about wells though, is the lack of an Elite Well. We should have one. We have elite corruption, minion, spectral skill and shout. But where is the well ?

Please don’t talke about that, the act of creating the elite for spectral and corruption was by nerfing 2 good skills because you could trait for them (which nobody does), while it was really not necessairy.

So 2 old skills were nerfed because the system changed. How would this affect a skill that doesn’t even exist yet?

flow.6043:

Tim.6450:

Tongku.5326:

The biggest thing that irks me about wells though, is the lack of an Elite Well. We should have one. We have elite corruption, minion, spectral skill and shout. But where is the well ?

Please don’t talke about that, the act of creating the elite for spectral and corruption was by nerfing 2 good skills because you could trait for them (which nobody does), while it was really not necessairy.

So 2 old skills were nerfed because the system changed. How would this affect a skill that doesn’t even exist yet?

It might have unexpected consequences that nobody likes, so be carefull with what you wish for.

well of darkness worst well longest cooldown
maybe if they gave us an elite well it would have a 20 second cooldown and be overpower

If blind did not clear at the first attack, WoD might work. Make it cause continued missing or low rate hitting until it is cleared or expires. That would be a lot of rework, though.

Tim.6450:

flow.6043:

So 2 old skills were nerfed because the system changed. How would this affect a skill that doesn’t even exist yet?

It might have unexpected consequences that nobody likes, so be carefull with what you wish for.

Quoting a fortune cookie doesn’t improve your argument’s logic.

If they really would be creating an elite well, they’d balance it with Vamp Rituals in mind right away.

flow.6043:

Tim.6450:

flow.6043:

So 2 old skills were nerfed because the system changed. How would this affect a skill that doesn’t even exist yet?

It might have unexpected consequences that nobody likes, so be carefull with what you wish for.

Quoting a fortune cookie doesn’t improve your argument’s logic.

If they really would be creating an elite well, they’d balance it with Vamp Rituals in mind right away.

And if it isn’t a vampiric rituals, it will be another trait/skill that they will then nerf. It’s the way they work, they introduce something and if it’s broken nerf everything else.