What I would like to see for Necromancer

What I would like to see for Necromancer

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Posted by: Mander.6924

Mander.6924

Hi everyone, Mander here.

I like the Necromancer class. Or at least, I like the idea of it: it was my second main class, but as many of you I feel it’s one of the less loved and less welcomed, especially in PvE/dungeon content (the place I belong to, and I admit it without shame). And it doesn’t feel right… one class shouldn’t be labeled as selfish by default, or struggle to achieve teamwork.

I know that the emotions are running wild at the moment, especially after the last patch, but I hope we can have a civil discussion about it.

Next are some simple changes I would like to see implemented for the necromancer class, in order of priority: I would like to know what you think about them.

1)Cleave? Yes please.
Aoe damage (via some wells: corruption and suffering for instance) is the best raw damage necromancers possess atm. The problem, imo, is that all wells share a very long cooldown (even 40 seconds, more than half the CD time of an elite skill!).
This means we’re naturally born nuker with little sustained DPS via weapons skills.
Our weapons of choice are less than adequate for what we do, or what we should be able to do: so at least, give us cleave please. It would still feel a little… strange to go in the face of mobs with daggers (we aren’t elementalists, or thieves), but at least we would be less spikes junkies and more balanced as class.
Necromancer is the only class without cleave: something I struggle badly to comprehend. Even warriors have at least one aoe damage, and cleave by default. Why the reverse isn’t true? There aren’t many others alternatives to achieve a decent balance: other than buff weapon damage 10 times (which would be ridiculous and farfetched).

2) Shorter CD on wells
As adressed in point 1) without a viable alternative to optimal raw damage (instead of subpar) to wells, I think we need shorter CD on them to be… not better, but just balanced and competitive with other class. What’s the point of having classes struggling to reach average performance, while other dominate the scene just because?
Another option could be to move the blood magic trait: ritual mastery in the adept section and buffing it, balancing a little better the toll we pay for using wells.

3) Stability
Necromancers do not possess stability boons. And the only necro’s stunbreak viable for combat is well of power (the others are useful while skipping mobs). Necros lack stability badly: per se, this isn’t a problem. It becomes a dire shortcoming when it’s combined with the lack of mobility in general: as necro, we don’t have vigor, stance or any way to refill our endurance.
So let’s change this: totally. Let’s add some nice teamplay to necros and make us useful, especially after the general buff to condition removals. We’ve to gain something for all that we’ve lost.
So I would like very much to see at least one of the following implemented:
a) Signet of Locust- passive: you run faster. Active: stunbreak (life siphon of SoL is minor at best: we can live without it).
b) Spiteful Spirit (Spite traits): grant stability while entering death shroud, 3 seconds duration.
c) Ritual Protection (Death Magic Traits): Wells grant stability when cast, 3 seconds duration. At most, this will give 9 seconds of stability: reasonable, imo, and finally some oriented teamplay traits for necro too.

Another way to achieve decent mobility could be to put together life force and endurance via one grandmaster trait, something like: every time you gain life force, you gain endurance. But this would need to be balanced wisely, otherwise necros on speed would be the new normal.

That’s all folks. Ideas? Opinions? Constructive discussion?

(edited by Mander.6924)

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Posted by: Overkillengine.6084

Overkillengine.6084

Necro’s have stability. One on a well, and one on a trait.

Now whether they are practical is another story entirely.

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Posted by: ArmageddonAsh.6430

ArmageddonAsh.6430

Why not make it during ALL of your time in DeathShroud – it can be burst down in seconds unless you trait and build for it and could very well be removed by other Necro or Mesmers and others (i think)

Rather than just making it easy to counter, enemies should have to WORK for it, having a 3second Stability will NOT save you and considering that ALOT of people seem to love running Knock back and interrupt builds that are pretty much impossible to counter.

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Posted by: Mander.6924

Mander.6924

Necro’s have stability. One on a well, and one on a trait.

Now whether they are practical is another story entirely.

WoP gives one second of stability: too little. So little that it’s pointless: it’s impossible to depend on 1 second stability every 50 seconds of CD. In combat. And you should be able to timing the cast with the attack that may, or may not, launch you…
Precognition isn’t my forte. XD
“Foot in the Grave” is a grandmaster trait in the soul reaping tree which grant stability for you alone while entering death shroud.
And if you’re without life force? Do you have to eat a teammate to refill it?

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Posted by: Mander.6924

Mander.6924

Why not make it during ALL of your time in DeathShroud – it can be burst down in seconds unless you trait and build for it and could very well be removed by other Necro or Mesmers and others (i think)

Rather than just making it easy to counter, enemies should have to WORK for it, having a 3second Stability will NOT save you and considering that ALOT of people seem to love running Knock back and interrupt builds that are pretty much impossible to counter.

Interesting Tip!
I think that would be nice, but a little overpowered: maybe with a life force threshold, for instance like “grant DS stability when life force is under 30%”. This way you can’t abuse it and you have to handle death shroud with care…

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Posted by: ArmageddonAsh.6430

ArmageddonAsh.6430

I think that would be nice, but a little overpowered: maybe with a life force threshold, for instance like “grant stability when life force is under 30%”. This way you can’t abuse it and you have to handle death shroud with care… but surely this is an interesting tip.

When you can be easily burst out of DeathShroud i dont think it would be, of course the Stability is removed once you actually leave DeathShroud.

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Posted by: Mander.6924

Mander.6924

You know what, ArmageddonAsh? With the situation atm, I’ve to agree.
Death shroud should give stability. Still no team boon, but would be a step in the right direction…

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Posted by: ArmageddonAsh.6430

ArmageddonAsh.6430

You know what, ArmageddonAsh? With the situation atm, I’ve to agree.
Death shroud should give stability. Still no team boon, but would be a step in the right direction…

Maybe also get around to actually allowing us to finish and res people in DeathShroud as well becuase it SERIOUSLY annoys me that Thieves, Mesmers and Engis can do it through stealth and others can do it without threat of a anything.

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Posted by: Mander.6924

Mander.6924

Now that would be too much xD: stability + res is a no go.
Not even ranger pets can do it, and there is already an OP skills to rally: It’s called “Illusion of life”. We don’t need another one.

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Posted by: ArmageddonAsh.6430

ArmageddonAsh.6430

Now that would be too much xD: stability + res is a no go.
Not even ranger pets can do it, and there is already an OP skills to rally: It’s called “Illusion of life”. We don’t need another one.

Why not? Others can give themselves stability and res and not the crappy 3second version we get and do it, or they could just stealth up and do pretty much the same thing…

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Posted by: Mander.6924

Mander.6924

Because I’m thinking about realistic changing to the necro profession, something that could be done in the short- to- middle span(middle january patch is already wishful thinking…). Changing the mechanics of Death Shroud would require more than one test (something noone want/have the time to do) and is a lot more hard to sell as an idea, than swap protection for stability…

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Posted by: ArmageddonAsh.6430

ArmageddonAsh.6430

Hell, if they gave us a toughness increase while inside DeathShroud and perma Stability while in Deathshroud (removed on exit) then i would happily not have access to res and finisher inside deathShroud.

Maybe they could fix the cool down on DeathShroud so it starts when you ENTER it rather than when you leave, fix the bug where 6 – 9 skills are blocked for 2-3 seconds after leaving DeathShroud would be nice as well.

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Posted by: Mander.6924

Mander.6924

Hell, if they gave us a toughness increase while inside DeathShroud and perma Stability while in Deathshroud (removed on exit) then i would happily not have access to res and finisher inside deathShroud.

Maybe they could fix the cool down on DeathShroud so it starts when you ENTER it rather than when you leave, fix the bug where 6 – 9 skills are blocked for 2-3 seconds after leaving DeathShroud would be nice as well.

I don’t consider toughness in DS a priority, not even in the long run: we can already gain life force while in DS and we have traits too to prolong its duration (you can manage as it is, imo). But I agree with the stability boon: we need it badly.
I don’t have issues with the CD on DS because I use reaper’s might to ramp up stacks of might, and usually I deplete my life force completely: so I don’t perceive it as a limitation. After depleting life force, I rightly need time to earn it again.

Sadly there are so many things to patch and boost with the necromancer, that even those 2/3 seconds (I think they are less…) of blocked skills aren’t a priorty imo. And this show the point at we’re.

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Posted by: ArmageddonAsh.6430

ArmageddonAsh.6430

I don’t consider toughness in DS a priority, not even in the long run: we can already gain life force while in DS and we have traits too to prolong its duration (you can manage as it is, imo). But I agree with the stability boon: we need it badly.
I don’t have issues with the CD on DS because I use reaper’s might to ramp up stacks of might, and usually I deplete my life force completely: so I don’t perceive it as a limitation. After depleting life force, I rightly need time to earn it again.

Sadly there are so many things to patch and boost with the necromancer, that even those 2/3 seconds (I think they are less…) of blocked skills aren’t a priorty imo. And this show the point at we’re.

It is actually MEANT to have a damage reduction mechanic, it just doesn’t actually work. So it would be nice if they actually went and fixed it, we are meant to be a slow moving class that is tough to kill and meant to be hard to get away from – The problem is none of those are true, we are meant to be a “Attrition” class, yet we dont have any of it.

Doesnt only one skill that grants us Life Force? and isnt exactly that great at it.

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Posted by: Mander.6924

Mander.6924

I know that writing this will probably erase the odds of some devs considering the thread but I have to…

Isn’t “Play how you want” the core philosophy, the leitmotiv, of Anet?
Devs who tell us that Necros are meant to be an “attrition” class make me very suspicious: it negates a big chunk of what anet stood for the past year.
I don’t really want to continue this line of toughts, but I need to say one more thing about it: there are so little ways to justify this contradiction, but noone of them is pleasant…

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Posted by: ArmageddonAsh.6430

ArmageddonAsh.6430

Yeah they say “play the class you want, how you want” but its really not. The talent system is a JOKE and makes it impossible to do that, they should take a look at Rift that has THE best Talent system in a game. Plus ALL the classes can play ALL the “roles” (dps, healer, support, heal support, damage support, range tank, tank, ect) it is GREAT.

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Posted by: Muchacho.2390

Muchacho.2390

Hell, if they gave us a toughness increase while inside DeathShroud and perma Stability while in Deathshroud (removed on exit) then i would happily not have access to res and finisher inside deathShroud.

Maybe they could fix the cool down on DeathShroud so it starts when you ENTER it rather than when you leave, fix the bug where 6 – 9 skills are blocked for 2-3 seconds after leaving DeathShroud would be nice as well.

Well the cooldown starts when you enter ds… Its only the case that pressing the leave ds button resets the cooldown. If you leave ds due no lifeforce left the cooldown is not resetted. I think thats intended and they will not change that. The 2-3 second delay bug however is getting fixed, but dont ask me when…

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Posted by: ArmageddonAsh.6430

ArmageddonAsh.6430

So entering and exiting it BOTH give it a cooldown, that is pathetic. No other way to say it that is simply a joke. It should JUST be when you enter it. Some times i wonder if they really know what they even wanted DeathShroud and Necromancer class to actually be, in so many ways its just a total mess.

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Posted by: Mander.6924

Mander.6924

Let’s try to voice our opinions in a more constructive manner: I can relate with your disappointment, but it doesn’t help our concerns about necro to be heard.

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Posted by: ArmageddonAsh.6430

ArmageddonAsh.6430

Let’s try to voice our opinions in a more constructive manner: I can relate with your disappointment, but it doesn’t help our concerns about necro to be heard.

This is Anet, they are clueless. Based on some of the changes they have made – it makes me wonder if they are able to read. They care not for the game or even understand what the term balance is.

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Posted by: Mander.6924

Mander.6924

It makes me think they have some very precise metas to reach in term of gameplay and class management, which we may, or may not agree to (we don’t know them, so we can’t be sure: the problem is imo, we and the devs do not communicate in a meaningful way at all, but this is another story). They care for the game: it’s their work afterall, not only the meaning to earn a salary, and I know by personal experience there are caring people even in Anet game support.
But again, this do not help the thread: back on track please.

What would you like to see for Necromancer? And what do you think about my tips?

(edited by Mander.6924)

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Posted by: ArmageddonAsh.6430

ArmageddonAsh.6430

What would you like to see for Necromancer?

I would like the MANY bugs and issues to be fixed. Anet needs to understand that buffing and nerfing classes is VERY stupid when you have bugs and issues that if FIXED would go some way to helping balance the game.

I would like to see it that we dont get melted in seconds, some more build options. I would like to see DeathShroud to be improved, it has so much potential but again issues and bugs weaken it.

Remove Dhuumfire, just remove it. It wasn’t asked for. It isn’t wanted and yet you add it and then have to nerf us for a trait that we didn’t even want to begin with…

Siphoning traits are simply useless. Remove them and add in some defensive traits. Personally:

Spite:
Spiteful Spirit could have its duration increased a bit.
Dhuumfire to be replaced with something else

Curses:
Reaper’s Precision – Increase the Life Force gained to at least 3-5%
Weakening Shroud – Remove the Bleeding and increase Weakness Duration

Death Magic:
Reanimator – Decrease cool down to 10seconds and dont combine it with Death Nova
Protection of The Horde – Increase Toughness gain to +50
Deadly Strength – Increase toughness converted to 15%
Dark Armor – Change it to +400Toughness while inside DeathShroud
Shrouded Removal – Increase conditions to 2/3
Necrotic Corruption – change it to your attacks, Say 50% chance on crit, 10second CD

Blood Magic:
Full of Life – Reduce cool down or Increase the number of stacks of Regen
Vampiric – Remove. Replace
Blood To Power – Change it so the LOWER your health is the MORE Power you get
Bloodthirst – Remove. Replace
Vampiric Master – Remove. Replace
Transfusion – Make part of the skill. Remove trait and replace.
Vampiric Presision – Remove. Replace
Deathly Invigoration – Make it part of DS. Remove trait and replace
Fetid Consumption – you have chance to send condition to target, 50% chance, 10s CD
Vampiric Rituals – Remove. Replace

Soul Reaping:
Gluttony – Increase to 25%.
Path of Midnight – Recharge decreased by 25%
Near to Death – reduce cool down by 50% as part of DS. Remove Trait and replace
Foot In Grave – Gain Stability while in DS removed on exit, can be removed by skills

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Posted by: pierwola.9602

pierwola.9602

Foot In Grave – Gain Stability while in DS removed on exit, can be removed by skills

And what you will do with that perma stability in DS ?
For me this is the worst idea ever

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Posted by: ArmageddonAsh.6430

ArmageddonAsh.6430

And what you will do with that perma stability in DS ?
For me this is the worst idea ever

How is it perma…

Removed on DS exit
Can be removed/corrupted by other players

Not everything should be for x number of seconds, if someone wants to spam interrupts and knockbacks then they should have to WORK for it ie removing ONE buff, would that be SO hard?

Its no worse than classes have perma-Swiftness or stealth 3 seconds or classes having near perma-Vigor is it, some of these cost FIVE trait points while Foot In The Grave is a 30 trait point cost for a crappy 3second Stability…

I would take perma-swiftness or perma-Vigor for FIVE trait points over foot in the gave EVERY day of the week.

(edited by ArmageddonAsh.6430)

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Posted by: Mander.6924

Mander.6924

What would you like to see for Necromancer?

I would like the MANY bugs and issues to be fixed. Anet needs to understand that buffing and nerfing classes is VERY stupid when you have bugs and issues that if FIXED would go some way to helping balance the game.

I would like to see it that we dont get melted in seconds, some more build options. I would like to see DeathShroud to be improved, it has so much potential but again issues and bugs weaken it.

Remove Dhuumfire, just remove it. It wasn’t asked for. It isn’t wanted and yet you add it and then have to nerf us for a trait that we didn’t even want to begin with…

Siphoning traits are simply useless. Remove them and add in some defensive traits. Personally:

Spite:
Spiteful Spirit could have its duration increased a bit.
Dhuumfire to be replaced with something else

Curses:
Reaper’s Precision – Increase the Life Force gained to at least 3-5%
Weakening Shroud – Remove the Bleeding and increase Weakness Duration

Death Magic:
Reanimator – Decrease cool down to 10seconds and dont combine it with Death Nova
Protection of The Horde – Increase Toughness gain to +50
Deadly Strength – Increase toughness converted to 15%
Dark Armor – Change it to +400Toughness while inside DeathShroud
Shrouded Removal – Increase conditions to 2/3
Necrotic Corruption – change it to your attacks, Say 50% chance on crit, 10second CD

Blood Magic:
Full of Life – Reduce cool down or Increase the number of stacks of Regen
Vampiric – Remove. Replace
Blood To Power – Change it so the LOWER your health is the MORE Power you get
Bloodthirst – Remove. Replace
Vampiric Master – Remove. Replace
Transfusion – Make part of the skill. Remove trait and replace.
Vampiric Presision – Remove. Replace
Deathly Invigoration – Make it part of DS. Remove trait and replace
Fetid Consumption – you have chance to send condition to target, 50% chance, 10s CD
Vampiric Rituals – Remove. Replace

Soul Reaping:
Gluttony – Increase to 25%.
Path of Midnight – Recharge decreased by 25%
Near to Death – reduce cool down by 50% as part of DS. Remove Trait and replace
Foot In Grave – Gain Stability while in DS removed on exit, can be removed by skills

The “melted in seconds” part is debatable, imo: with some practice, DS becomes a way to achieve more damage, thanks to reaper might. A weapon, instead of a shield: using life force to escape damage erase its purpose and I think it’s a waste of resources.
I roll a d/d powerbuild and I’ve never felt the need for more toughness…
Again, what we lack imo are boons: we can control condition damage, but after the buff to condition removal this ability becomes useless. We need something instead to replace it, other than some stability.
For these reasons, I’m of the opinion that siphoning traits should be buffed, not erased: after all, mastery of life and death should be the calling card of necromancer…

I agree that Dhuumfire should vanish: it even breaks lore….

Foot In the Grave should be moved in the adept tree. Or even becomes innate bonus.
Afterall necro ranged are pitiful, so much that not even mm should use staff: to balance this handicap (eles and mes can both be ranged and melee) we should have, imo, stability and stability boons. And cleave.

(edited by Mander.6924)

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Posted by: ArmageddonAsh.6430

ArmageddonAsh.6430

The “melted in seconds” part is debatable, imo: with some practice, DS becomes a way to achieve more damage, thanks to reaper might. A weapon, instead of a shield: using life force to escape damage erase its purpose and I think it’s a waste of resources.
I roll a d/d powerbuild and I’ve never felt the need for more toughness…
Again, what we lack imo are boons: we can control condition damage, but after the buff to condition removal this ability becomes useless. We need something instead to replace it, other than some stability.
For these reasons, I’m of the opinion that siphoning traits should be buffed, not erased: after all, mastery of life and death should be the calling card of necromancer…

I agree that Dhuumfire should vanish: it even breaks lore….

Foot In the Grave should be moved in the adept tree. Or even becomes innate bonus.
Afterall necro ranged are pitiful, so much that not even mm should use staff: to balance this handicap (eles and mes can both be ranged and melee) we should have, imo, stability and stability boons. And cleave.

With the removal of The useless Siphon traits i could see some Boon love in there. Traits like:

Boon Leech: Steal a Boon every 5 seconds from foes in range, 360 Range. 5 second cool down.

Shrouded Corruption: Constantly corrupt a boon into a condition while in DeathShroud, Number of Targets:5, Interval: 5 seconds, Range: 360

Other classes have built in methods to remove conditions we should have built in methods to corrupt/remove boons

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Posted by: Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046

bugfixes , no utility shutout on leaving trnsform..DS overflow reversed Or maybe make the max damage that flows over 1k.

54 infractions and counting because a moderator doesn’t understand a joke when he/she sees it.
E.A.D.

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Posted by: Mander.6924

Mander.6924

The “melted in seconds” part is debatable, imo: with some practice, DS becomes a way to achieve more damage, thanks to reaper might. A weapon, instead of a shield: using life force to escape damage erase its purpose and I think it’s a waste of resources.
I roll a d/d powerbuild and I’ve never felt the need for more toughness…
Again, what we lack imo are boons: we can control condition damage, but after the buff to condition removal this ability becomes useless. We need something instead to replace it, other than some stability.
For these reasons, I’m of the opinion that siphoning traits should be buffed, not erased: after all, mastery of life and death should be the calling card of necromancer…

I agree that Dhuumfire should vanish: it even breaks lore….

Foot In the Grave should be moved in the adept tree. Or even becomes innate bonus.
Afterall necro ranged are pitiful, so much that not even mm should use staff: to balance this handicap (eles and mes can both be ranged and melee) we should have, imo, stability and stability boons. And cleave.

With the removal of The useless Siphon traits i could see some Boon love in there. Traits like:

Boon Leech: Steal a Boon every 5 seconds from foes in range, 360 Range. 5 second cool down.

Shrouded Corruption: Constantly corrupt a boon into a condition while in DeathShroud, Number of Targets:5, Interval: 5 seconds, Range: 360

Other classes have built in methods to remove conditions we should have built in methods to corrupt/remove boons

Interesting, but way too powerful… devs stated already that want to forbid epidemyc synergy as a way to achieve damage. A perma corruption of boons over an area of effect + epidemyc would mean a devastating combo capable of toppling the balance of any fight, everywhere from PvE to WvW. Not happening: not even with a rewamp of the class. ;(

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Posted by: ArmageddonAsh.6430

ArmageddonAsh.6430

Interesting, but way too powerful… devs stated already that want to forbid epidemyc synergy as a way to achieve damage. A perma corruption of boons over an area of effect + epidemyc would mean a devastating combo capable of toppling the balance of any fight, everywhere from PvE to WvW. Not happening: not even with a rewamp of the class. ;(

Not if done right, they could do it and have it so that the conditions last 50% the length of the boon that was corrupted and seeing as it would be in DeathShroud you would have to leave deathshroud to get Epidemic out. Another way they could do it, increase the cool down so that its every 1 boon every 10 seconds for those in range, dont some classes already have a condition removal like every 10seconds anyway and with us being a corruption/boon hate kind of class i think it would fit.

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Posted by: Mander.6924

Mander.6924

The only way I see it viable would be to split WvW/PvP traits from those of PvE…
WvW and PvE have to be balanced in a different way: we’ve seen how impossible it is to achieve with the same trees.
Splitting the traits for all the classes is the only way to achieve a really balanced sistem.
Different boons and different traits for PvE and WvW, balanced and managed differently: it could solve so many problems…. will it ever happen? Of course not. It would require so much rework, testing and balancing wise, that we could maybe see it in GW3.

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Posted by: ArmageddonAsh.6430

ArmageddonAsh.6430

Already got Sigils that do the same thing with a 60% chance, why not make it a trait with a 100% chance and say 10second cool down…

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Posted by: pierwola.9602

pierwola.9602

I have at least ten reasons why “Foot In the Grave” is better than your idea.

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Posted by: ArmageddonAsh.6430

ArmageddonAsh.6430

I have at least ten reasons why “Foot In the Grave” is better than your idea.

Name them then. We have very little access to stability and you REALLY think for a 30point trait that its good?

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Posted by: pierwola.9602

pierwola.9602

Name them then. We have very little access to stability and you REALLY think for a 30point trait that its good?

1-10 – you can combine it with your normal skills e.g. stab + heal
11 – works better with rest of the “flashing” traits
12 – you won’t get more than 5/10 sec of stab with your idea
13 – it’s pretty hard to kill your foe when you are in DS
14 – you are not dependent on skills with LF regeneration
15 – you don’t need more than 3 sec if you want to use your DS skills w/o interrupt
16 – you can’t be interrupted during shroudstomp

(edited by pierwola.9602)

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Posted by: ArmageddonAsh.6430

ArmageddonAsh.6430

Name them then. We have very little access to stability and you REALLY think for a 30point trait that its good?

1-10 – you can combine it with your normal skills e.g. stab + heal
11 – works better with rest of the “flashing” traits
12 – you won’t get more than 5/10 sec of stab with your idea
13 – it’s pretty hard to kill your foe when you are in DS
14 – you are not dependent on skills with LF regeneration
15 – you don’t need more than 3 sec if you want to use your DS skills w/o interrupt
16 – you can’t be interrupted during shroudstomp

I have no issue healing as it is, rarely get interrupted when i need to heal and worst comes to worst i have DeathShroud just in case.

What about builds that BUILD around DeathShroud? i guess they get ignored becuase you dont build that way?

Pretty hard to kill your foes? maybe if you aren’t built for DeathShroud, when you BUILD for it, it is VERY powerful so that one is wrong.

What about when you need to get into a a tower or keep with all that stuns and AoE fields everywhere, you think that THREE seconds will save you? You’ll be laughed at and then turned into a ping pong ball until you die.

Who says this is for Shroud Stomping? which requires a bug to actually do it seeing as its not part of the mechanic without cheating around it.

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Posted by: Mander.6924

Mander.6924

Name them then. We have very little access to stability and you REALLY think for a 30point trait that its good?

1-10 – you can combine it with your normal skills e.g. stab + heal
11 – works better with rest of the “flashing” traits
12 – you won’t get more than 5/10 sec of stab with your idea
13 – it’s pretty hard to kill your foe when you are in DS
14 – you are not dependent on skills with LF regeneration
15 – you don’t need more than 3 sec if you want to use your DS skills w/o interrupt
16 – you can’t be interrupted during shroudstomp

I have no issue healing as it is, rarely get interrupted when i need to heal and worst comes to worst i have DeathShroud just in case.

What about builds that BUILD around DeathShroud? i guess they get ignored becuase you dont build that way?

Pretty hard to kill your foes? maybe if you aren’t built for DeathShroud, when you BUILD for it, it is VERY powerful so that one is wrong.

What about when you need to get into a a tower or keep with all that stuns and AoE fields everywhere, you think that THREE seconds will save you? You’ll be laughed at and then turned into a ping pong ball until you die.

Who says this is for Shroud Stomping? which requires a bug to actually do it seeing as its not part of the mechanic without cheating around it.

^^ Death Shroud’s Life blast combined with reaper’s might and a powerbuild is probably one of the few sources of sustained DPS necros have atm.
And 3 second of stability for a grandmaster trait is too little, imo: buff the duration, move it in the adept section or better yet give us 3 seconds of innate stability upon entering DS.
By design, Necros should stay in melee range: we have bonus damage in short range. Our wells and marks becomes smaller and smaller every patch, but we lack a way to stay in the fray: and this is something that need to be adressed badly.

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Posted by: pierwola.9602

pierwola.9602

I have no issue healing as it is, rarely get interrupted when i need to heal and worst comes to worst i have DeathShroud just in case.

are you pve player ?

What about builds that BUILD around DeathShroud? i guess they get ignored becuase you dont build that way?

What about build that BUILD around flashing DS ?

Pretty hard to kill your foes? maybe if you aren’t built for DeathShroud, when you BUILD for it, it is VERY powerful so that one is wrong.

Deathly Perception

What about when you need to get into a a tower or keep with all that stuns and AoE fields everywhere, you think that THREE seconds will save you? You’ll be laughed at and then turned into a ping pong ball until you die.

3sec stab + 2 dodge, for me it’s more than enough

Who says this is for Shroud Stomping? which requires a bug to actually do it seeing as its not part of the mechanic without cheating around it.

guilty

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Posted by: Mander.6924

Mander.6924

What about build that BUILD around flashing DS ?

We’re already borderline spike junkies as it is… and even than, our damage should be buffed. Do we really need another death or death attack?

Deathly Perception

Yet another grandmaster trait which doesn’t solve a core problem of the necromancer
class… if and when you build your necro for it. And considering the alternatives and the situation at the moment, it’s way to expensive to use, imo.

3sec stab + 2 dodge, for me it’s more than enough

Except we don’t have a way to refill endurance… so yes, we could have 3 sec stability, 2 dodge… but if the fight isn’t ended while we dodged, we’re dead. And the fights with PvE bosses never ends so fast… meanwhile, every single other class have multiple damage reduction or evasion. And we even lack cleave.

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Posted by: ArmageddonAsh.6430

ArmageddonAsh.6430

are you pve player ?

No, i spend most of my time in PvP, mostly WvW with a bit of SPvP thrown in every now and then. I think i have spent less than an hour outside of them modes in the last week

What about build that BUILD around flashing DS ?

So, you think builds that flash it are more important than those that don’t?

Deathly Perception

Isnt the only trait – i take Vul and Might with Life Blast, lower reduction in degeneration as well as the AoE Vul while in DeathShroud along with Deathly Perception. Your point is?

3sec stab + 2 dodge, for me it’s more than enough

More than enough? Do you only do PvE? Because with the fact with have no access to Invuls, Aegis, Vigor and such, i know i wouldnt count on 2 dodges and 3 measly seconds of stability at a THIRTY trait point cost and a minimum 7 second cool down if you take the trait being good.

guilty

I never use it.

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Posted by: Sarrs.4831

Sarrs.4831

i’d like to see minions not exploding when you get moa’ed

would be nice

Nalhadia – Kaineng

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Posted by: Mander.6924

Mander.6924

i’d like to see minions not exploding when you get moa’ed

would be nice

…mhh. In case you don’t know every tranformation effect stove pets, destroy illusions… and naturally kill minions. Don’t see why should be different with minions master…
In case you knew it, deadpan isn’t the best way to contribute to this thread.
Strike one Sarrs.

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Posted by: pierwola.9602

pierwola.9602

So, you think builds that flash it are more important than those that don’t?

i dont but i dont understand why you want to nerf my build “flashing DS” and bost another one

Isnt the only trait – i take Vul and Might with Life Blast, lower reduction in degeneration as well as the AoE Vul while in DeathShroud along with Deathly Perception. Your point is?

my point is that you don’t take FITG when you want to hit hard in DS.

More than enough? Do you only do PvE? Because with the fact with have no access to Invuls, Aegis, Vigor and such, i know i wouldnt count on 2 dodges and 3 measly seconds of stability at a THIRTY trait point cost and a minimum 7 second cool down if you take the trait being good.

more than enough to get to the tower, during the fight i have 50% Endurance every 10sec.
btw under heavy attack you won’t even reach 3sec with your idea.

I never use it.

And what about DS/SW and falling dmg ?

And 3 second of stability for a grandmaster trait is too little, imo: buff the duration, move it in the adept section or better yet give us 3 seconds of innate stability upon entering DS.

But 3 sec of stability for 10 point is rly good. In my case Near to Death is the base not Foot in the Grave. Condi removal, 800hp , 3sec stab every 7 sec, pretty nice if you ask me + i can still use my normal skills, resing people and dont be interrupted.

(edited by pierwola.9602)

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Posted by: Mander.6924

Mander.6924

Near to Death does not give stability: it just reduces DS cd. To achieve stability you still need to go to all the way to the grandmaster trait.
And condition removal is so widespread by now, that it’s not a calling card for necros anymore: everyone can do it. And some could do it even better.
We still have consume condition, but it’s the only thing left: not very much.
And almost every other class have some way to achieve the same stability with better duration or lesser cd…

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Posted by: ArmageddonAsh.6430

ArmageddonAsh.6430

But 3 sec of stability for 10 point is rly good. In my case Near to Death is the base not Foot in the Grave. Condi removal, 800hp , 3sec stab every 7 sec, pretty nice if you ask me + i can still use my normal skills, resing people and dont be interrupted.

“But 3 sec of stability for 10 point is rly good” n- No, simply no. It is a THIRTY point trait. You have to spend THIRTY points to get it. Now if you are already 20 points into it, then yes it costs an extra 10 but still at the end it still costs THIRTY trait points.

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Posted by: pierwola.9602

pierwola.9602

“But 3 sec of stability for 10 point is rly good” n- No, simply no. It is a THIRTY point trait. You have to spend THIRTY points to get it. Now if you are already 20 points into it, then yes it costs an extra 10 but still at the end it still costs THIRTY trait points.

No it’s 10 (20 in soul reaping is the must for “flashing”) and at the end it costs 70 trait (for me) points. Signet Master/ Shrouded Removal/ Deathly Invigoration/ Near to Death and then Foot in the Grave and it works because i did the same thing what you did with your power build -

i take Vul and Might with Life Blast, lower reduction in degeneration as well as the AoE Vul while in DeathShroud along with Deathly Perception.

I took similar traits(stats/skills/weapon) to create “1” Build

From my perspective you are trying to change something just because it don’t fit to your build. (You wanna spam Life Blast with perma stab)

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Posted by: Ogii.6958

Ogii.6958

From my perspective you are trying to change something just because it don’t fit to your build. (You wanna spam Life Blast with perma stab)

And you are trying to downplay how not-worth-it this Grandmaster trait is because it doesn’t come at as high of a cost in YOUR build. The point Ash is trying to make is that, regardless of your build, this trait isn’t good enough to warrant the 30 SP you have to spend to get it.

And ugh, DS flashing. You know our profession mechanic is working as intended when there are viable builds that pop in and out to get the buffs but don’t actually stay in it because it’s too much of a kitten . You can see the total on the Life Force bar though! Sweet!

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Posted by: Sarrs.4831

Sarrs.4831

i’d like to see minions not exploding when you get moa’ed

would be nice

…mhh. In case you don’t know every tranformation effect stove pets, destroy illusions… and naturally kill minions. Don’t see why should be different with minions master…
In case you knew it, deadpan isn’t the best way to contribute to this thread.
Strike one Sarrs.

I’m aware, but this is a thread about necromancers, and Moa Morph is the only ability that can force another player to transform. If this was a guardian thread and Spirit Weapons were actually worthwhile, I’d be saying the exact same thing there. Plague and Lich no longer popping your minions would be a nice side bonus; it’s not an intended mechanic.

I really don’t see a point in writing up an 8-sentence paragraph on why Moa shouldn’t kill necromancer minions when it’s obvious enough without it.

“Strike one”? Pull your head out.

Nalhadia – Kaineng

(edited by Sarrs.4831)

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Posted by: pierwola.9602

pierwola.9602

And you are trying to downplay how not-worth-it this Grandmaster trait is because it doesn’t come at as high of a cost in YOUR build. The point Ash is trying to make is that, regardless of your build, this trait isn’t good enough to warrant the 30 SP you have to spend to get it.

Nop im trying to say that this is a good trait but you have to build arount it (near to death), like in every other buld. Maybe for condi/power heavy build 30 points is too much and flashing ds is not a option but for (suport healing build) me this is a great trait when you combine it with spiteful spirit,weakening shroud, furious demise, shrouded removal,deathly invigoration, near to death.

p.s try to tank something in DS and you will see how nice this idea is, few sec and your LF(perma stab) gone.

(edited by pierwola.9602)

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Posted by: Mander.6924

Mander.6924

i’d like to see minions not exploding when you get moa’ed

would be nice

…mhh. In case you don’t know every tranformation effect stove pets, destroy illusions… and naturally kill minions. Don’t see why should be different with minions master…
In case you knew it, deadpan isn’t the best way to contribute to this thread.
Strike one Sarrs.

I’m aware, but this is a thread about necromancers, and Moa Morph is the only ability that can force another player to transform. If this was a guardian thread and Spirit Weapons were actually worthwhile, I’d be saying the exact same thing there. Plague and Lich no longer popping your minions would be a nice side bonus; it’s not an intended mechanic.

I really don’t see a point in writing up an 8-sentence paragraph on why Moa shouldn’t kill necromancer minions when it’s obvious enough without it.

“Strike one”? Pull your head out.

After reading your signature and your post, I thought you were trolling: I don’t perceive the destruction of minions as a problem with transformation abilities.
And for that, I’m sorry.
An 8 sentences paragraph would be welcome next time: after all we’re trying to voice our opinions here.

Anyway to stay on topic: as you know, Plague and Lich Form both destroy your minions, as all the elite norn skills to become a spirit of Wild. Don’t see why polymorph should be different: ok, you’re the target with it, but to use it once, mesmers pay a 180 seconds of cd, reasonable, imo. And again, even if the destruction of minions isn’t intended as mechanich, but I think this is quite debatable, I wouldn’t prioritize it over the general bugfixes, the necromancer fixes, and the balancing of the class…

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Posted by: Mander.6924

Mander.6924

And you are trying to downplay how not-worth-it this Grandmaster trait is because it doesn’t come at as high of a cost in YOUR build. The point Ash is trying to make is that, regardless of your build, this trait isn’t good enough to warrant the 30 SP you have to spend to get it.

Nop im trying to say that this is a good trait but you have to build arount it (near to death), like in every other buld. Maybe for condi/power heavy build 30 points is too much and flashing ds is not a option but for (suport healing build) me this is a great trait when you combine it with spiteful spirit,weakening shroud, furious demise, shrouded removal,deathly invigoration, near to death.

p.s try to tank something in DS and you will see how nice this idea is, few sec and your LF(perma stab) gone.

I too think that the only stability boon for a necromancer in a grandmaster trait it’s too expansive, sorry pierwola. Too little for too many traits points: and it’s even a self boon! I could understand if it were a team boon, or an area…. but self only? Too kitten high for a selfish trait.
And it’s totally possible to tank someone in death shroud: you just have to stay mobile while spamming attacks and dodge when needed. Of course, if you stay in melee range spamming life blast while afk it’s useless, but it can be done.
But again, as necromancer we lack the ability to refill our endurance… something that should be adressed, imo.