Guild Wars 2

Necromancers:

What are the potential positive/negative implications of moving Foot in the Grave from the Grandmaster to Master trait level?

One of my biggest pet peeves is that we are required to face tank damage due to our limited mobility. While I actually like the idea, what I don’t like doing is getting ping ponged around by CC. I think as one of the least mobile classes, with extremely limited damage mitigation skills (Blocks, evades, invulerabilties) we should at least be able to adequately protect ourselves from being over CC’d. I have seen ideas from putting stability on Spectral armor, to increasing the duration of stability gained during well of power. In my opinion, it would be highly beneficial to make stability more readily accessable to a variety of builds, by moving it from 30 in SR to 20 in SR.

Anyone else have thoughts on how this would be OP, not OP, or not helpful? I am having trouble seeing how it would be OP, but i do see it as really increasing build diversity and assisting us with protecting against becoming the dark ping pong ball of free kills in wvw and pvp. I mean, at least if we have to face tank the damage and can’t escape, then at least let us eat the damage and die standing up, instead of CC’d on my back watching my impending doom.

After the patch that nerfs burning, I think it would be fine. If it happened today, as-is, it would be OP.

I do like the idea of having that trait make it so SPECTRAL skills give stability. Maybe 4 seconds per spectral skill. That would be pretty cool.

Yeah, if they nerf burning as they plan to, I still hold that Dhuumfire should also be moved to a Master level trait, or a Curses grandmaster trait. Not that I am a fan of the burning thing, but the nerf to our other conditions as a result of the addition of burning makes burning almost a necessary trait to have for a condition build. WIthout it, we just can’t keep condition pressure and damage up. Burning not only increases damage but helps cover bleed damage from being instantly removed by a cleanse.

If they moved it to a curses grandmaster/master trait, it would cut the duration of burning down 30% right off the bat, as no condition build would really go into Spite, or if they did, it would only be for hybrid builds.

If they moved Foot in the grave to master level SR, and burning to Curses grandmaster/master, then a large amount of builds would open up. In my opinion.

Rennoko.5731:

After the patch that nerfs burning, I think it would be fine. If it happened today, as-is, it would be OP.

I do like the idea of having that trait make it so SPECTRAL skills give stability. Maybe 4 seconds per spectral skill. That would be pretty cool.

Yea, to me putting it in another trait line on activated skills makes more sense. Not to say foot in the grave couldn’t be put in master tier, but I’d like to see more diversity. Right now in WvW all of my builds go 30 into soul reaping. Foot in the Grave, or Deathly Perception are simply mandatory for me. Personally, I want to see signets tied more into blood magic (your next attack after using a signet siphons health or something similar), and spectral skills tied more into death magic with something like this.

Personally I would like to see the SR minors switched around more then a change to FiTG. Near to death master minor, last gasp (sarmor @ 50%) to adept minor, scrap gluttony.

Stand The Wall.6987:

Personally I would like to see the SR minors switched around more then a change to FiTG. Near to death master minor, last gasp (sarmor @ 50%) to adept minor, scrap gluttony.

Think that would make the minor too good, in my opinion. Not sure I could ever pass up 5 points for a free spectral armor @ 50%.

I could get behind near to death as the 15 point trait though. That make sense (something like fast hands for warrior).

Rennoko.5731:

Stand The Wall.6987:

Personally I would like to see the SR minors switched around more then a change to FiTG. Near to death master minor, last gasp (sarmor @ 50%) to adept minor, scrap gluttony.

Think that would make the minor too good, in my opinion. Not sure I could ever pass up 5 points for a free spectral armor @ 50%.

I could get behind near to death as the 15 point trait though. That make sense (something like fast hands for warrior).

So you think Anet will give you something almost as good as a warrior? LOL wake up buddy

Yami.9035:

Rennoko.5731:

Stand The Wall.6987:

Personally I would like to see the SR minors switched around more then a change to FiTG. Near to death master minor, last gasp (sarmor @ 50%) to adept minor, scrap gluttony.

Think that would make the minor too good, in my opinion. Not sure I could ever pass up 5 points for a free spectral armor @ 50%.

I could get behind near to death as the 15 point trait though. That make sense (something like fast hands for warrior).

So you think Anet will give you something almost as good as a warrior? LOL wake up buddy

Oh I don’t expect anything from them at this point. In fact I would bet the farm the big “Feature” build will do nothing to address the underlying balance problems. I think the entire thing is a big PR stunt to keep people from trying other games by hyping up nothing.

I am more than willing to be proven wrong, but when you go over sensible balance changes, ask for feedback, and then lock up the balance team and throw away the key, because “we can’t talk about that right now” and “it will make sense when you see it”, I am not on board with that. Balancing is interactive and often… not this.

Nothing short of a complete redesign of class systems, traits, skills – would justify the no information stance they have taken. Considering the incredibly minor changes to the classes from release, it would be highly unlikely this would happen.

I’m thinking like you Rennoko.5731

On topic : I think a buff to " Foot in the grave " to 4sec could really help us to not be ping-ponged around combined with Near to death . And imo it will promotes active play ( that Anet don’t like ) with flash-ds and smart play because the thing will be not to flash ds every 7sec like a robot but know how to manage it properly for sponge burst or anticipate a CC chain etc .

Yami.9035:

I’m thinking like you Rennoko.5731

On topic : I think a buff to " Foot in the grave " to 4sec could really help us to not be ping-ponged around combined with Near to death . And imo it will promotes active play ( that Anet don’t like ) with flash-ds and smart play because the thing will be not to flash ds every 7sec like a robot but know how to manage it properly for sponge burst or anticipate a CC chain etc .

Well “Foot in the Grave” can be increased to 4 sec through Death Magic trait-line.

You need 33% boon duration for get the 4sec right now . That means full 30pts in Death magic , it kills build diversity .
Well if the Death magic tree could give me a real defense potential without i need to play for MM , I could make the " sacrifice " .

Sorry if i make grammar mistakes etc , english is not my cup of tea

No need to apologize Yami.

Youre right Ren, it would be too powerful. So meh, you know, put it in death magic tree master minor. MMs could use another stunbreak probably.

Death magic adept minor: +100 toughness when life force is below 50%.

Ok, 3 or 4 seconds on foot in the grave is an interesting question, but won’t do anythign to help build diversity. I really am referring to moving Foot in the Grave to a master level slot, making stability readily available to a variety of builds, without killing the type of build.

Putting it on spectral skills would be too much because we would go from little stability to 3-4 diff skills with stability. That would be OP.

Gryph.8237:

Ok, 3 or 4 seconds on foot in the grave is an interesting question, but won’t do anythign to help build diversity. I really am referring to moving Foot in the Grave to a master level slot, making stability readily available to a variety of builds, without killing the type of build.

by diversity you mean condi(30,20,0,0,20) or life blast build with stability ?

no, actually i was thinking 0/20,30,0,20 as a more survivable condi build for example. Or 20,10,0,10,30 for a DS/Power build. Anything, actually. at 30, if you go 30 into SR to get stability, you have one build that is effective, which is 30/10/0/0/30 as a DS build.

Moving it to 20 would allow variety of condition builds and power builds. The only reason anyone with a condi build goes into SPite is to get burning, which I think should be a 30 level curses trait imo. Moving it to curses would lower the duration of burning by 30%, unless someone still went 30 into spite to be a hybrid.

Right now we have 1 access to stability… one, and its a grandmaster trait that makes you inefficient in whatever specialty you want to get 3 secs of stability.

Gryph.8237:

no, actually i was thinking 0/20,30,0,20 as a more survivable condi build for example. Or 20,10,0,10,30 for a DS/Power build. Anything, actually. at 30, if you go 30 into SR to get stability, you have one build that is effective, which is 30/10/0/0/30 as a DS build.

Im pretty effective and in dont use 30/10/0/30 build.

Moving it to 20 would allow variety of condition builds and power builds. The only reason anyone with a condi build goes into SPite is to get burning, which I think should be a 30 level curses trait imo. Moving it to curses would lower the duration of burning by 30%, unless someone still went 30 into spite to be a hybrid.

That would be the worst thing every, condi build with terror, burn, stab and 20 free traits points.

Right now we have 1 access to stability… one, and its a grandmaster trait that makes you inefficient in whatever specialty you want to get 3 secs of stability.

and that wont change when you will move it to master. 3sec every 7/10 sec is enough for small scal pvp.

Yeah to be honest, the best move would be to put stability in the… you know… boon duration tree (death magic). The way you encourage build diversity is to improve blood and death, the only trees that are currently weak by comparison.

Not sure what the trigger could be…. how about 3 second of stability on minion death!!!

If it was me choosing then I wouldn’t mind having FiTG moved to the 20 point mark but it isnt me making the decision and in its current form it wont ever happen.

The reason being is that everything is decided on scenarios that are obscure and exist only because they can do on paper but in reality they don’t make much sense. For this it will be if you stack to 100% boon duration by using a mixture of runes, armour or trinkets and food you can get that timer upto just over 6 seconds stability without sacrificing too much other stats. And they will not want us having 6 seconds of stability on hand every 10 seconds without sacrificing alot of other stuff.

In reality going that route means you wont hit very hard but that will not matter at all when it comes to balancing decisions as you can still get your crit chance up enough to make use of the fury in curses. And to go slightly off topic I agree with Rennoko that I am not expecting much in the balance patch, they have cried wolf too many times in the past in relation to these patches that im now skeptical about the wait and see how great the patch is response we normally receive. But I will be happy if im proved wrong on either of the above.

Foot in the grave is overrated. It doesn’t last long, it doesn’t stunbreak. DS flashing is mostly theorycraft.

If it went to master trait, it would be up against master of Terror, nobody would take it their either. (Also, It wouldn’t be any easier to take near to death and Foot in the grave than it is today)

EDIT: my opinion of the trait and of DS flashing could change based on how the fix to the “leaving DS locks out your utilities,” ends up playing. My sense is that the trait will be better but, without a buff, still not good. (Entering and leaving DS involves some impermissible lag delay).

When i was thinking about a buff to 4sec , it’s pretty because 40% of stability uptime is not that bad ( without Near to death ) , and combined with it’s 57% . Add our trait " Shrouded removal " ans its 44% without NtD and 62% with . Not that bad imo

But tbh i’m focused on this because since dhummfire is getting modifed , i think the last to 10 points we was using in spite for it will be moved to soul reaping . Not because " it’s super awesome " but because “it’s better than nothing” . 20/20/0/0/30 might be the new meta . The combinaison could be soul marks + master of terror .

But imagine a ( let’s say WvW ) build like 0/20/20/0/30 with Terror , the Weakening Shroud , Shrouded Removal and Greater marks , and the combinaison of near to death and a FiTG with 4 sec base . There is maybe someting good to do with that